From the end of "Concluding the Campaign" in Pathfinder 6:
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Delicious.
If the Harridan is now a template why not allow it to apply to all types of Lamia for a bigger badder version of anyone you want?
From the end of "Concluding the Campaign" in Pathfinder 6:
** spoiler omitted **
*sniff* *sniff*
Is that mythic adventures I smell?
Return of the Runelords....we aren't talking anything Golarian-shattering here are we? I mean that in a Forgotten Realms-shattering destroying the setting I once loved sense.
Return of the Runelords....we aren't talking anything Golarian-shattering here are we? I mean that in a Forgotten Realms-shattering destroying the setting I once loved sense.
As has been the case with a few adventure paths, I expect that's really up to the players and whether or not they succeed in preventing said Golarion-shattering event. Unless Paizo means to deviate from their current approach to setting-altering events (being that shaping the setting is up to the people sitting around the game tables), I think Golarion as we know it is relatively safe.
Hmmm, I have been aching to run Rise of the Runelords for about 6 months now. Its our first Pathfinder campaign and the idea of a main enemy that is thousands of years old and stated up with the old rules system of 3.5 against a group of pathfinder characters resonates very well with our group. Almost a coming of age, or transition ritual. So I struggle to decide if I want to use the AP books I inherited from my friends or if I should wait another 6 months to use a fully up to date version.
What would you do? Mr. Jacobs?
Still can't get here fast enough!
Creative Director
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Hmmm, I have been aching to run Rise of the Runelords for about 6 months now. Its our first Pathfinder campaign and the idea of a main enemy that is thousands of years old and stated up with the old rules system of 3.5 against a group of pathfinder characters resonates very well with our group. Almost a coming of age, or transition ritual. So I struggle to decide if I want to use the AP books I inherited from my friends or if I should wait another 6 months to use a fully up to date version.
What would you do? Mr. Jacobs?
I would wait for the upcoming revised book. It's a cute idea to have the PCs fight an "older edition" version, but it'd also be kinda underwhelming and frustrating, I would think.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Since Pathfinder Rangers cannot have bears as an animal companion:
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Thanks!
Yes.
** spoiler omitted **
Too bad.
Oh, well. I'm sure the rest of the book will be awesome enough to make up for it :-)
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Just for reference then, fire pelt cougars use the same stats as small cats, correct?
Thanks for the response, James!
Correct... although I still don't like that we called that category "small cat" since that makes it sound like a house cat. Would have preferred to name that category "Cougar/Leopard/Cheetah" or something like that.
Return of the Runelords....we aren't talking anything Golarian-shattering here are we? I mean that in a Forgotten Realms-shattering destroying the setting I once loved sense.As has been the case with a few adventure paths, I expect that's really up to the players and whether or not they succeed in preventing said Golarion-shattering event. Unless Paizo means to deviate from their current approach to setting-altering events (being that shaping the setting is up to the people sitting around the game tables), I think Golarion as we know it is relatively safe.
I really wouldn't mind Paizo introducing a bit more meta-plot and some powerful and memorable good guys into the world. One of my players recently complained about the world feeling too static and I for one agree with him. It's really sort of that World of Warcraft MMO feeling, where your passage as a hero isn't really noted in the world, although supposedly you helped everyone you met.
Golarion needs, IMO, a lesser version of Elminster. Someone who is not as ridiculously powerful as him, but yet powerful enough to give us an indication why all those high CR monsters hanging around have not simply ROFL-stomped the good guys.
Someone who is memorable and should be a recurring character in several AP's. There is, again IMO, a disconnect between AP's, which makes the world feel less alive. I was really very happy when Ramoska Arkminos turned up in Carrion Crown. I wish Laori Vaus would make an appearance in Shattered Star.
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Someone who is memorable and should be a recurring character in several AP's. There is, again IMO, a disconnect between AP's, which makes the world feel less alive. I was really very happy when Ramoska Arkminos turned up in Carrion Crown. I wish Laori Vaus would make an appearance in Shattered Star.
Interesting that after calling out for more good guys, you mention two evil characters! :-P
That said, I hear where you're coming from. There ARE some powerful good guys in the setting, but we've been hesitant to do much at all with them so far, primarily after seeing how that went with Forgotten Realms. We really want the PCs to be the main good guys in the setting, after all.
Someone who is memorable and should be a recurring character in several AP's. There is, again IMO, a disconnect between AP's, which makes the world feel less alive. I was really very happy when Ramoska Arkminos turned up in Carrion Crown. I wish Laori Vaus would make an appearance in Shattered Star.Interesting that after calling out for more good guys, you mention two evil characters! :-P
That said, I hear where you're coming from. There ARE some powerful good guys in the setting, but we've been hesitant to do much at all with them so far, primarily after seeing how that went with Forgotten Realms. We really want the PCs to be the main good guys in the setting, after all.
Well, that I mentioned two evil ( arguable, in the case of Laori ^^ ) people stems from exactly the problem I tried to describe... they are some of the most interesting characters in Curse of the Crimson Throne, there are very few people on the good guys side who have that kind of pull. Trinia Sabor, Thousand Bones and Cressida Kroft don't have that hook which translates to an instant coolness factor.
And I realize that you want to avoid a situation like the Forgotten Realms, where there were so many completely overpowered good aligned characters that many players were discouraged to ever become as influential and important as them. But I personally think that Golarion falls too much on the other side of the equation, there are way too few cool good characters who seem to be pulling some strings in the background and who the PC's can meet in different campaigns.
I don't even know if the AP's are the place to make Golarion really come to life, I think novels would probably be a better avenue. As much as a lot of people dislike Drizzt and Elminster, their novels sold well and their names became synonymous for the Forgotten Realms ( for good or for ill ).
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Novels and adventures accomplish two different things. And frankly, what you're looking for—heroes—isn't something you'll be finding a lot of in adventures, since the heroes in an adventure are the PCs, and that's pretty much the ONLY part of an adventure's story we don't (because we can't) talk about.
That said, we are publishing novels set in Golarion now. We're deliberately skewing the novel stories to tell "small" stories rather than world-changing ones, so that more or less means that the heroes in the novels will be low or mid level more often than they're high level.
Novels and adventures accomplish two different things. And frankly, what you're looking for—heroes—isn't something you'll be finding a lot of in adventures, since the heroes in an adventure are the PCs, and that's pretty much the ONLY part of an adventure's story we don't (because we can't) talk about.
That said, we are publishing novels set in Golarion now. We're deliberately skewing the novel stories to tell "small" stories rather than world-changing ones, so that more or less means that the heroes in the novels will be low or mid level more often than they're high level.
Oh, I get that the PC's are the heroes in the AP's, so some more powerful dude showing them up is counterproductive. Although there are easy plot points which can explain why said high-level NPC can't do exactly that.
As for the novels, I personally think you might want to give them a bit variation. To take an example from the BattleTech novels, there were lots of novels about yet another scrappy mercenary outfit overcoming adversity to make it big in the end ( which would compare to novels with low- and mid-level characters ), but the ones which turned out to be the ones which shaped the BattleTech universe were the ones by Michael Stackpole. Those involved the leaders and big movers of the Inner Sphere and the Clans and gave that universe most of its iconic characters.
Of course I am just pointing out where my personal interests lie and what I'd like to see to make Golarion feel less static and more like something which evolves over the years. I know that you guys actually want the setting to be as player character driven as possible ( which ironically makes it more even static, as the actual results of the AP's cannot be discussed in too much detail ). You are moving a little bit beyond that with the Shattered Star AP, but as you can't really talk about the "canon" outcomes of the old AP's, due to your current policy, it will probably end up in the vein of "And over in Korvosa, Queen Ileosa something something, while Karzoug mumble-mumble and the Drow in the Mierani Forest this'n that". :p
But at least for me seeing the meta-plot of the Forgotten Realms advance helped me much in creating homebrewn campaigns in that world and made me care about it much more than I care currently about Golarion. That I have to take characters from other universes to point to and say "I want my character to be as cool as that guy!" is still a big minus in my book. I still have hopes to see that change over the next few years. :)
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Well, that I mentioned two evil ( arguable, in the case of Laori ^^ ) people stems from exactly the problem I tried to describe... they are some of the most interesting characters in Curse of the Crimson Throne, there are very few people on the good guys side who have that kind of pull.
The interesting good characters are [insert PC names here].
And Laori is definitely evil. In fact, her alignment is Cute Evil. ;)
Just because someone is kinda cheery and upbeat, that doesn't mean they're less evil.
Well, that I mentioned two evil ( arguable, in the case of Laori ^^ ) people stems from exactly the problem I tried to describe... they are some of the most interesting characters in Curse of the Crimson Throne, there are very few people on the good guys side who have that kind of pull.The interesting good characters are [insert PC names here].
And Laori is definitely evil. In fact, her alignment is Cute Evil. ;)
Just because someone is kinda cheery and upbeat, that doesn't mean they're less evil.
Believe me, after you read Mikazes ( sadly sporadic ) tales about her in his campaign, "cute evil" doesn't cut it anymore. ;)
I really can't see at all what is supposed to be cute or even symapthetic about this Laori character. I think I'd find her insufferable.
I really can't see at all what is supposed to be cute or even symapthetic about this Laori character. I think I'd find her insufferable.
To each his own. Laori was, as for now at least, the most memorable character presented in the AP's I've GM'ed and/or read.
There ARE some powerful good guys in the setting, but we've been hesitant to do much at all with them so far, primarily after seeing how that went with Forgotten Realms. We really want the PCs to be the main good guys in the setting, after all.
Theis caution is appreciated. It's only occasionally bothersome, such as when the PC who just died happened to be the only one who could have raised or resurrected a party; but it can also be a little weird for groups that establish ties to a place like Sandpoint.
Father Zantus is 4th L I think. I randomly determined the levels of the other five ranking clerics in the multifaith Cathedral, and Sarenrae's happened to be 6th. I decided that was a non-issue since being "in charge" of the Cathedral would be a mostly administrative position anyway. But one of the PC's -- a Sandpoint local and relation of The Chopper -- is now a 14th L cleric of Sarenrae, and still defers to the (now 7th) L priestess back in town.
Celebrity claims nothwithstanding, I have a hard time believing that, for example, Jennifer Lopez is just "Jenny from the block." High level PCs are going to get shoved into new roles even when not adventuring, unless there are mid-to-high level NPCs who can do the job.
That said, we are publishing novels set in Golarion now. We're deliberately skewing the novel stories to tell "small" stories rather than world-changing ones, so that more or less means that the heroes in the novels will be low or mid level more often than they're high level.
Along that tangent; I've read and enjoyed "Death's Heretic" - and awaiting delivery of "Master of Devils". But something that I'd like to see in the Golarion novels is a story that is scoped over more books. I'm NOT thinking of something more "epic" - the level of story captured in the Golarion books really suits me. But I'd really want to see a 6-part book series which tells a rich and complex tale that does justice to its page-count.
If you had the pleasure of reading The Baroque Cycle by Neal Stephenson... that is the kind of thing I'd love to see, but done for Golarion.
Were that to happen, it would be interesting to see something epic in scale, but historical, rather than set in Golarion's present-day era.
Something like a series covering the Shining Crusade against Tar-Baphon could be pretty amazing. Epic bad guys, epic good guys, the death of Arazni, the rise of Iomadae, etc.
But that's the whole crux of the problem. :-/ Golarion has an amazing history of incredibly epic s*** happening left and right... but it's all in the past. There were epic heroes... but they have been mostly dead for some time.
But right now, it's in complete stasis. Yeah, things are happening in the AP's, but because of the way they are designed, those events don't seem to be felt elsewhere in the world.
I really can't see at all what is supposed to be cute or even symapthetic about this Laori character. I think I'd find her insufferable.To each his own. Laori was, as for now at least, the most memorable character presented in the AP's I've GM'ed and/or read.
That's not a contradiction to what I said. I wasn't inferring that character couldn't be memorable.
I just don't see how one could refer to this murderous psychopath as cute or even just sympathetic.
But right now, it's in complete stasis. Yeah, things are happening in the AP's, but because of the way they are designed, those events don't seem to be felt elsewhere in the world.
You say that as if it was a bad thing.
I really can't see at all what is supposed to be cute or even symapthetic about this Laori character. I think I'd find her insufferable.To each his own. Laori was, as for now at least, the most memorable character presented in the AP's I've GM'ed and/or read.That's not a contradiction to what I said. I wasn't inferring that character couldn't be memorable.
I just don't see how one could refer to this murderous psychopath as cute or even just sympathetic.
Well, I guess you GM'ed/saw her GM'ed differently than I did. ^^
Well, I guess you GM'ed/saw her GM'ed differently than I did. ^^
I just read the adventures, never played them.
As a GM I'd hate to have to play a character like that and would probably swap her out for another character. As a player I would hate if my party would want to associate with her. Her whole character concept repels me. On top of that, the illustration is ridiculously bad which doesn't help. To be honest, I've only read the first three adventures, the whole leaving the city for two adventures just when things are beginning to get interesting put me right off this AP for the time being.
I'd probably swap out the whole Brotherhood, as Zon-Kuthon is the one evil deity that I can't really get behind as a GM, and I'd much rather not have to use his religion in my game.
Well, I guess you GM'ed/saw her GM'ed differently than I did. ^^I just read the adventures, never played them.
As a GM I'd hate to have to play a character like that and would probably swap her out for another character. As a player I would hate if my party would want to associate with her. Her whole character concept repels me. On top of that, the illustration is ridiculously bad which doesn't help. To be honest, I've only read the first three adventures, the whole leaving the city for two adventures just when things are beginning to get interesting put me right off this AP for the time being.
I'd probably swap out the whole Brotherhood, as Zon-Kuthon is the one evil deity that I can't really get behind as a GM, and I'd much rather not have to use his religion in my game.
I sense an irreconcilable difference of taste here. :p
But for me the anime artwork worked quite well and, yeah, I could have GM'ed her as more of a creepy disturbed person. I did under-emphasize that factor, because I know my players well and she wouldn't have survived to appear later on if I had done that.
Also, you can really add a lot of complexity to her. I recommend looking that post from Mikaze. Link.
Sorry if that wasn't clear. I didn't quote, but I was mostly responding to LoreKeeper's interest in more epically scaled novels set in Golarion. I'm actually pretty content with the APs as they are.
Now a trilogy handling the Shining Crusade would undeniably be epic reading material. But technically what I'm asking for is *not* a more grandiose/epic story itself - but a more complex story that takes more than 300 pages to fully unfold. It is fine to have comparatively mundane characters - representing maybe level 8 or so on the high-end of things - but that doesn't mean that their story has to be less deep or meaningful than the one surrounding the Shining Crusade.
I sense an irreconcilable difference of taste here. :p
But for me the anime artwork worked quite well and, yeah, I could have GM'ed her as more of a creepy disturbed person. I did under-emphasize that factor, because I know my players well and she wouldn't have survived to appear later on if I had done that.
Also, you can really add a lot of complexity to her. I recommend looking that post from Mikaze. Link.
Looked at the thread, still don't get it. There is nothing positive at all about this character to me.
Anyway, this doesn't really belong here. Sorry for "threadjacking".
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But that's the whole crux of the problem. :-/ Golarion has an amazing history of incredibly epic s*** happening left and right... but it's all in the past. There were epic heroes... but they have been mostly dead for some time.But right now, it's in complete stasis. Yeah, things are happening in the AP's, but because of the way they are designed, those events don't seem to be felt elsewhere in the world.
I don't see that as a problem. As I understand it, there is a deliberate design intent to NOT assume any AP has "happened" yet in any other content. The one exception to this that I can think of is Rise of the Runelords, which I think James Jacobs said was done as an experiment.
Otherwise, this is supposed to be an age of new heroes appearing... and the world-impact-continuity is up to the GM to provide. If a GM runs Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne, for example, in either order, it is up to him/her to make whatever adjustments he/she feels necessary so that the events of the first one are reflected (as needed and desired) in the second.
By assuming that all occur without depending upon the others, the GM is free to choose which APs or adventures occur, and in what order.
Likewise, the absence of numerous high-level NPCs is there to give the Players the chance to grow into those roles... and to become those NPCs in later parts of that GM's campaign version of Golarion.
That's fine and dandy if this were a homebrewn campaign. I've done much the same back when I was running Forgotten Realms homebrewns and could mention the players old characters to them in the following campaign.
But as of now I run AP's and those, up until now, always drop the players into what feels like a sterilized setting, with completely new NPC characters and no connection to old AP's.
It would just be cool if some known NPC would turn up, so that the players can go "Hey, it's that guy/lady!". Paizo has done this very sparingly, with Shalelu ( who is somewhat of a stoic, which doesn't help too much in making her memorable ), Ameiko Kaijitsu and now Ramoska Arminos.
It would just be nice to see more connection between the AP's, to see that this is a living, breathing world. I hope Shattered Star can move in that direction, after all it plays in Varisia and, as stated by James, is after the events of the first three AP's.