Pathfinder Adventure Path: Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition (PFRPG)

4.50/5 (based on 24 ratings)
Pathfinder Adventure Path: Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition (PFRPG)
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In the sleepy coastal town of Sandpoint, evil is brewing. An attack by crazed goblins reveals the shadows of a forgotten past returning to threaten the town—and perhaps all of Varisia. The Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path begins with this goblin raid and takes players on an epic journey through the land of Varisia as they track a cult of serial killers, fight backwoods ogres, stop an advancing army of stone giants, delve into ancient dungeons, and finally face off against a wizard-king in his ancient mountaintop city. This hardcover compilation updates the fan-favorite campaign to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game rules with revised and new content in more than 400 pages packed with mayhem, excitement, and adventure!

Celebrating both the fifth anniversary of the Pathfinder Adventure Path and the tenth anniversary of Paizo Publishing, this new edition expands the original campaign with new options and refined encounters throughout, incorporating 5 years of community feedback.

    The Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition contains:
  • All six chapters of the original Adventure Path, expanded and updated for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.
  • Articles on the major locations of Rise of the Runelords: sleepy Sandpoint, the ancient Thassilonian city of Xin-Shalast, and others.
  • Revelations on the sinister magic of Thassilon, with updated spells, magic items, and details on tracking sin points throughout the campaign.
  • A bestiary featuring eight monsters updated from the original Adventure Path, plus an all-new terror.
  • Dozens of new illustrations, never-before-seen characters, location maps, and more!

The Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition is not part of any subscription.

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-436-8

FAQ:

Q: Will you be doing hardcover compilations of all of your Adventure Paths?
A: No. This is a special celebration of our very first Adventure Path on its 5th Anniversary. Several of the original volumes of Rise of the Runelords have been unavailable in print for a long time, yet it remains one of our most popular adventure paths; that circumstance presents a unique opportunity for us to expand and update it for use with the Pathfinder RPG, and to apply lessons we've learned about making Adventure Paths over the last half-decade. Our other adventure paths are largely still in print, and many of them were designed for use with the Pathfinder RPG to begin with; we have no plans to recompile them.

Q: Is there anything missing from the original AP volumes?
A: Yes—otherwise, this book would be more than 600 pages long! Some of the monsters and other things created for Rise of the Runelords are now part of the official Pathfinder RPG rules, so they're not reprinted here. The original volumes also included monster ecologies, bestiary entries, and other campaign setting material that isn't directly used in the adventure itself; those items are also not present in this collection. The Pathfinder Journal fiction featuring Eando Kline is not presented here either, but it has been compiled—along with the installments from the subsequent two Adventure Paths—as The Compass Stone, now available in ePub form. We have also replaced some of the artwork from the previous edition, and replaced the six individual introductions with one new one.

Q: What is included in the digital version?
A: In addition to the full version, the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition download includes the Interactive Maps and a Lite version for reading on portable electronic devices.

Download the Web Enhancement! - (180 KB zip PDF)
Originally posted to the Paizo blog for Pathfinder Adventure Path #5.

Bring your campaign to life!
The Rise of the Runelords Mega SoundPack from Syrinscape is a complete audio solution for playing through the Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path.

Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition is sanctioned for use in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. The rules and Chronicle sheets for running this Adventure Path are available as a free download (438 KB zip/PDF).

Product Availability

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This product is non-mint. Refunds are not available for non-mint products. The standard version of this product can be found here.

Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at store@paizo.com.

PZO1002


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Fantastic Revision

4/5

So this was a birthday gift and really the "Gift that keeps on giving." We are only on the second chapter but I can not say enough great things about this.

The layout is fantastic and easy to read. The artwork is wonderful. The NPCs greatly detailed. And the easy to read - but complex - nature of several of the strategies of the antagonist allow for a varied and sometimes hard to predict resolution.

My only complaint is this - so much effort was clearly put in to the creation of these wonderful PC handout. While I didn't pay for this myself, as it was a gift, it would be great if those that paid the extra money to have a physical copy were rewarded with a PDF of the Handouts.

Maybe one exist - and if there is - this baby goes to 5 stars. But that is my only complaint, that my players do not get to enjoy the fantastic art and handouts that I do, and they need to settle for my shoddy imitations.


A great adventure path made even greater

5/5

Read my full review on my blog.

To start off with, I have to say that this is an absolutely gorgeous book. I mean that both in terms of its physical appearance and its contents. Every page is like a work of art, from the background colouring which gives it a parchment-like look to the sihedron star underlaid with each page number. The top right corner of every right-hand page contains a tab indicating which section of the book you’re in while the left margin of every left-hand page contains identifying artwork from the original cover of the particular instalment. If there’s any problem with the layout, it’s that it looks so good that it makes you want to flip through the book to just look at it and ignore the writing! Of particular note are the maps. While they’re mostly the same maps as before, they’ve been relabelled and are much clearer as a result. I particularly like that stairs now indicate which way is up and which is down. Most of the time, this is pretty obvious, but there have been times in the past when I’ve been unsure which way stairs are going in some Paizo maps. It’s good that it’s clear just in case of any doubt. Also, full stat blocks and abbreviated stat blocks have a new way of showing XP, CR, and HP. It’s a small change, but it makes them stand out just a little more, thus making them just a little clearer. However, as I said, there’s more that’s beautiful about this book than just its layout. A lot of work clearly went into it and it shows.


ROTRL Anniversary Edition...the missed opportunity

3/5

So first, all the usual disclaimers. "Rise" is a classic.

It joins the pantheon of truly great adventures in the storied history of "D&D," ranking with Gygax's giant-drow saga.

It redefined the genre, for the better, and despite some brilliant Adventure Paths since, still contains some of the best writing and freshest ideas that Paizo's team has cooked up.

So why only three stars? Two words: Missed opportunity.

The knock on Runelords from the start -- a legitimate one, in my opinion -- is that there wasn't enough foreshadowing.

Nor was there enough opportunity to interact with the incredibly rich, complex NPCs created by Paizo's authors.

The DM knows from reading the printed backstory just how complex and interesting are figures like Nualia, Tsuto, Ironbriar, and the Scribble.

Yet the sad truth is that, as written, these NPCs appear on stage in the adventure only just in time to be killed -- dungeon crawl fodder dressed up in fancy verbiage.

There are exceptions of course. Aldern Foxglove enjoys his own mini-arc. Father Zanthus has a chance to grow in meaning.

But there's not enough of this.

And the issuance of the Anniversary Edition offered Paizo a chance to remedy the spotty flow of plot and character development.

This wouldn't be that difficult a retrofit.

Ironbriar could make a sinister cameo appearance in the early going. It could be made clear that Nualia should do her best to survive, to take a more prominent role in subsequent chapters.

Conna the Wise, given some kind of cameo or bit role earlier, would have much more resonance.

It would also have been relatively easy to thread together larger themes of the story.

Why not make the mysterious ranger Shalelu Andosana a member of the Black Arrows?

This would have given her a clear role later in the story and made the plight at Fort Rannick far more tension-filled.

There should also be some sort of foreshadowing -- through dreams? through the ravings of captured enemy NPCs? -- of arch-enemies that appear later in the story: the Scribbler, Karzoug, Xin-Shalast itself.

As written, the Adventure Path still acknowledges that there is "relatively little involving the metaplot" of ROTRL in the entire first chapter.

But this needn't have been so.

Why aren't the goblins marked or tattooed with Sihedron runes -- as victims are who visit the Paradise barge later in the story?

Why not lay in clues and hints from the very start, so that the seeds of dread are planted at once?

I know -- I know. All these things are DMable, fixable, improvable.

And the adventure works just fine (better than fine...) as written, as a series of cool, weird, deadly encounters that only slowly builds a sense of narrative momentum.

Some would argue that this is exactly the point, using Sandpoint as a kind of "sandbox" at first, and only later introducing the real seeds of an active "quest" or "campaign."

But in my view, iit would be that much better if there were really memorable arch-villains and bit characters that built relationships and rivalries with the PCs, helping grow excitement through the early sessions.

How about an encounter with one of the Graul clan in the slums of Magnimar?

Couldn't that awful flesh golem be an awakened, re-animated off-spring of Mammy?

Imagine that creature, in its dying breath, saying, "My kin don't forget. Mammy'll find you. Mammy'll git you!"

A solidly written monster bash becomes really creepy, really foreboding. And Mammy herself begins to loom early on the horizon.

Even if Paizo didn't want to rewrite all this, it would have made sense to include a "Behind the Curtain" section pointing out possible ways to enhance the story. Something like this:

"We wrote this episodically, and it wasn't possible to stitch it all together seamlessly. But now that we can look at it as a whole, here are some ideas for giving bigger flow and punch to the various elements, ways that might spark curiosity, fear and a sense that the PCs face clever, persistent adversaries..."

So enough. I'll end where I began.

I think it's fair and reasonable to hold Paizo's stuff to the highest narrative standards. Thus my stingy stars.

But this is great storytelling, as written. I've run most of the Adventure Path already once, and plan to run it again now. Once again, thanks to the folks at Paizo for all the fun

--Capt Marsh


My first exposure to Rise of the Rune Lords

5/5

I have never run or played in the adventure path before and decided to purchase it and prepare for the our next campaign. Great book!! The story seems consistent, coherent and interesting..the book is laid out well and easy to follow. Also I love the mini tie in! Great job!!!


A comparison between the Anniversary Edition and the older version of Runelords

4/5

This review takes the form of an overall comparison between the new version of Runelords and the Old version. I'll detail some of the new additions, the changes, and what was removed.

First off, the actual in game content for Rise of the Runelords is almost all preserved. Some Bestiary monsters have been removed, but they were either optional to the AP (like the Sandpoint Devil and the Attic Whisperer) or they are now in one of the published Bestiaries (and thus easily referenced from the PRD). Other than certain Bestiary monsters there has been no in game content that was removed. Every encounter is there, every dungeon is there, every important NPC has a statblock.

So what Has been removed? Articles. There are no more Pathfinder Journals. Many of the articles that were in the adventure path were also removed. All articles on Gods (Desna and Lamashtu) have been removed. The history of Karzoug

Spoiler:
The big bad of the path and titular Runelord
was removed. The culture of the Stone Giants was removed. The History of Thassilon was severely curtailed. So what remains of the articles? All the location articles are preserved and updated. Sandpoint, Magnimar, Turtleback Ferry, and Xin-Shalast all have their own articles. The "Magic Of Thassilon" article is preserved and expanded (though "More magic of Thassilon" is removed) in the form of "New Rules". The new Rules article has updated versions of spells, items, and a new mechanic for tracking Sin and Virtue Points in the campaign. Finally all the introductions to the various APs are removed.

So what has Changed? Almost all of the earlier art. Mostly for the better. Ameiko Kajitsu and Shalelu Andosana both reuse Art from Jade Regent, but there's new art for the goblins, the Skinsaw Man, Aldern Foxglove, the handouts (such as the deed in the Skinsaw massacres and the letter in Sins of the Saviors), as well as Belor Hemlock and Orik Vancaskerkin. Some art (like Aldern Foxglove, Korvus the Goblin, and the Skinsaw Man) is an incredible improvement. Some art (like Vancaskerkin's new portrait and Belor Hemlock) is slightly disappointing. On the whole though the new art is a boon.

The stat blocks have also changed, some have merely been updated to pathfinder mostly verbatim with third party classes preserve,(e.g. Delphine's entire encounter in module 5) and some have been completely overhauled (e.g. the quasit in module one is now a Witch instead of the Thaumaturgist she was in the original iteration of the path). Additionally, the final encounter with the big bad of the adventure path has been heavily overhauled with an entirely new map, new stat blocks, round by round instructions, and additional hazards and participants.

So what's new? In addition to everything being updated, there are several new monsters in the Bestiary like the Scarlet Walker. There are New Magic Items like the Anathema Archive. Additionally Several merely magical Items have been updated to Artifacts.

But the biggest addition is in the campaign itself. There are far more connections between and the modules now. You meet Ameiko Kajitsu's father in a fairly interesting encounter early on in Burnt offerings, for instance, among many other small additional encounters throughout the book. There's an entirely new Dungeon section (for sloth) in the Runeforge. That's in addition to all the changes and the new Items discussed earlier.

If you're just starting an AP for the first time this AP will give you everything you need (with some use of the Free online PRD to supplement). But I feel sad to see a lot of the details of ancient Thassilon and some of the factions and enemies you run into vanish, because those aren't on the PRD. They aren't essential to running the path, but they were fun and added a lot of fun bits to the path.


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Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Brian E. Harris wrote:
pad300 wrote:
Econ Question for Vic Wertz. Would it be practical (and possibly cheaper for Paizo) to make a box set: The interior stuff could be the 6 AP modules, just with corrections from 3.5 to PF, almost no retypesetting needed. You could even go to a stapled not sewn/glued binding ilke the original red box set...
I believe that Lisa or Vic (or both) have stated in the past that box sets are not cheap at all - that, while cool, there is no cost savings in producing such a product over a hardcover.

This is true. (Slipcases, for some reason, seem to be crazy expensive.)

But even if it were easier and cheaper, it wouldn't be the best move.

For one thing, XP works a bit differently in Pathfinder and 3.5, so just changing the stats has the potential to actually introduce new XP problems in places—hence the new encounters sprinkled throughout.

More importantly, though, we just wouldn't be satisfied with that. We've learned a lot about making APs in the last five years, and we've learned a lot from reading your feedback on Rise of the Runelords. And we've got a much better idea of what Golarion looks like. This is a great opportunity to tweak things to improve on the original.

Finally, speaking from a strictly commercial point of view, increasing the appeal of the collection to people who already purchased the original volumes is pretty important.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Joana wrote:

Pretty sure it's a CYA statement, like the about getting a complete set of minis if you buy a case: in case of human error, if someone doesn't get a complete set, they can't come back to Paizo and say, "Hey, you lied to me!"

If the official wording says "We will never compile another AP," and then they end up updating, say, CotCT for their 15th or 20th anniversary, then people can say, "Hey, you lied to us! You said you weren't going to do that!" They don't want to commit to doing or not doing anything indefinitely.

Pretty much that. Saying "never" is never a good idea...

** spoiler omitted **

Well, never say never again.


I want this...

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

$60? My interest in this product just doubled. I've been scheming to get ahold of this AP, but the prices online sellers want for Book I alone are insane. I see other 3.5 APs around in used bookstores or sometimes even regular gaming stores, but never a Runelords installment.

Updating and compiling this was an incredible idea, and newcomers to Pathfinder like myself, who have no affordable way to get ahold of the older stuff but know of it by reputation, will love you guys for it. In fact, I just subscribed and preordered.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I think the final artwork should feature Karzoug, not just some encounter from along the way (a pictured in the mockup).

Just saying.

Dark Archive

Vic Wertz wrote:


Pretty much that. Saying "never" is never a good idea...

** spoiler omitted **

Reminds me of my communication lecturer some time ago who said:

"Somebody who says "never" or "always" is always trying to manipulate you .... always ...."

:o)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Chewbacca wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:


Pretty much that. Saying "never" is never a good idea...

** spoiler omitted **

Reminds me of my communication lecturer some time ago who said:

"Somebody who says "never" or "always" is always trying to manipulate you .... always ...."

:o)

That's why us lawyers, who are on principle honest to a fault and never, EVER use any deception or misinformation, prefer to use words such as "unlikely", "probably", "quite possibly" or "never, unless..." ;-)


I'm very, VERY excited.

However... I'm finally starting my second Runelords game next month.

I've now more or less assured I'll have nobody to play this with ever. G&$ d#~nit.

Liberty's Edge

Brian E. Harris wrote:
pad300 wrote:
Econ Question for Vic Wertz. Would it be practical (and possibly cheaper for Paizo) to make a box set: The interior stuff could be the 6 AP modules, just with corrections from 3.5 to PF, almost no retypesetting needed. You could even go to a stapled not sewn/glued binding ilke the original red box set...
I believe that Lisa or Vic (or both) have stated in the past that box sets are not cheap at all - that, while cool, there is no cost savings in producing such a product over a hardcover.

Yep.

In fact, Lisa (and others) said that, once you look at the numbers, you see that all those box sets TSR did actually LOST money. It was one of the factors that caused TSR's demise in fact.

Back on topic, I think it's really cool that Paizo is doing this to honor the fifth anniversary of the Pathfinder Adventure Path and the tenth anniversary of Paizo ! What an awesome gift to the fans!


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I wanted to chime in here and say thanks to Paizo for greenlighting this book. I, like many other fans, offer a lot of criticism about upcoming products, and I'd like to make sure that the perception isn't that we are all squeaky wheels with no capacity for satisfaction or recognition. =]

That you listened to your fans and undertook this project, making the adventure path accessible for even more gamers who missed it the first time around or are concerned about making mistakes in converting it from D&D3.5 to PFRPG, is a wonderful thing indeed. Thank you so much, and I hope it sells out - I'm doing my part to spread the word about it to the gamers I know who have never played through "Runelords"!

(An aside question: Is this compilation something that will only be printed once, or do you see it going through multiple printings? The difference to me personally being that instead of ordering two right off the bat, I might wait for the revised and errata'd reprinting to get my second copy.)

Paizo Employee CEO

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Power Word Unzip wrote:
(An aside question: Is this compilation something that will only be printed once, or do you see it going through multiple printings? The difference to me personally being that instead of ordering two right off the bat, I might wait for the revised and errata'd reprinting to get my second copy.)

While I won't 100% rule out additional printings, we plan to print enough of the first printing that we think that it will be the only printing. This is how we usually approach all of the books outside of the core RPG line. So I would put the chance of a second printing at less than 10%. But you never know. We could vastly underestimate demand. It has happened before! :)

-Lisa

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

I am in! I have been hoping that Paizo would do this for the first AP.

Liberty's Edge

The mockup uses the Roleplaying Game label and not the Adventure Path one.

I'm also hoping this book is bound in a nice white.

Something I would like to see is a 123456 across the spine so it can fit in the collection.

Lantern Lodge

Vic Wertz wrote:
Joana wrote:

Pretty sure it's a CYA statement, like the about getting a complete set of minis if you buy a case: in case of human error, if someone doesn't get a complete set, they can't come back to Paizo and say, "Hey, you lied to me!"

If the official wording says "We will never compile another AP," and then they end up updating, say, CotCT for their 15th or 20th anniversary, then people can say, "Hey, you lied to us! You said you weren't going to do that!" They don't want to commit to doing or not doing anything indefinitely.

Pretty much that. Saying "never" is never a good idea...

** spoiler omitted **

See the problem here is that you, Vic, stated in this comment that it is not going to happen. To me it reads "We will never compile another AP" and if that is not the intent then you shouldn't say it. Either you are open for compiling other APs or you are not, and if you are there is no harm in people saying that they would like it to happen.

Vic Wertz wrote:

Seriously, guys, please stop asking for other compilations. It's not going to happen, and I don't want people who don't read carefully thinking it's likely to happen.

One of the main reasons for not doing this one is that just having the notion out there that we *might* do this for other APs is harmful. I'd really appreciate it if everybody would help squash that idea whenever and wherever it is raised.

This is a unique circumstance.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
Sgmendez wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Joana wrote:

Pretty sure it's a CYA statement, like the about getting a complete set of minis if you buy a case: in case of human error, if someone doesn't get a complete set, they can't come back to Paizo and say, "Hey, you lied to me!"

If the official wording says "We will never compile another AP," and then they end up updating, say, CotCT for their 15th or 20th anniversary, then people can say, "Hey, you lied to us! You said you weren't going to do that!" They don't want to commit to doing or not doing anything indefinitely.

Pretty much that. Saying "never" is never a good idea...

** spoiler omitted **

See the problem here is that you, Vic, stated in this comment that it is not going to happen. To me it reads "We will never compile another AP" and if that is not the intent then you shouldn't say it. Either you are open for compiling other APs or you are not, and if you are there is no harm in people saying that they would like it to happen.

Vic Wertz wrote:

Seriously, guys, please stop asking for other compilations. It's not going to happen, and I don't want people who don't read carefully thinking it's likely to happen.

One of the main reasons for not doing this one is that just having the notion out there that we *might* do this for other APs is harmful. I'd really appreciate it if everybody would help squash that idea whenever and wherever it is raised.

This is a unique circumstance.

And Lisa stated in a forum post that buying a case of minis ought to get you a complete set. The press release/product description does not make that claim.

I.e., the Paizo staff speak for themselves and not ex cathedra on the fora. :)

The alternative is that they stop chatting with us on the forums and run all communication with the customer base through a law firm.


Joana wrote:

And Lisa stated in a forum post that buying a case of minis ought to get you a complete set. The press release/product description does not make that claim.

I.e., the Paizo staff speak for themselves and not ex cathedra on the fora. :)

+1 for appropriate use of "ex cathedra".

Sovereign Court

Lisa Stevens wrote:


While I won't 100% rule out additional printings, we plan to print enough of the first printing that we think that it will be the only printing. This is how we usually approach all of the books outside of the core RPG line. So I would put the chance of a second printing at less than 10%. But you never know. We could vastly underestimate demand. It has happened before! :)

-Lisa

I sure hope you do underestimate the demand, and that you may reconsider to compile others AP because of it!


Darkorin wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:


While I won't 100% rule out additional printings, we plan to print enough of the first printing that we think that it will be the only printing. This is how we usually approach all of the books outside of the core RPG line. So I would put the chance of a second printing at less than 10%. But you never know. We could vastly underestimate demand. It has happened before! :)

-Lisa

I sure hope you do underestimate the demand, and that you may reconsider to compile others AP because of it!

Ditto! I'd buy everyone you guys did! And even if this is it, thanks! It'll great on my shelf and I'll really look forward to reading it!

Jeff...

Lantern Lodge

Joana wrote:

And Lisa stated in a forum post that buying a case of minis ought to get you a complete set. The press release/product description does not make that claim.

I.e., the Paizo staff speak for themselves and not ex cathedra on the fora. :)

The alternative is that they stop chatting with us on the forums and run all communication with the customer base through a law firm.

Except that the press release does state that:

Press Release wrote:
Buyers who purchase factory-sealed cases (4 bricks) should get a nearly complete set of figures.

Located in the first Q/A, last sentence of the first paragraph. Sorry, but that supports my statement that we should not be told in a hostile manner to stop talking about something that is told to us in the product description.

If I want to talk about how cool it would be to print other APs like this and the product description states that it is a possibility in the future then I shouldn't be told later by an employee that it is not a possibility and we need to stop talking about it.

All I am saying is that if it is a possibility then don't tell me to shut up about it and if it is not a possibility then remove the part in the product description that says it is one.


Will the Ashvawg Tamer druid archetype/variant class be getting an update in this edition?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Sgmendez wrote:
If I want to talk about how cool it would be to print other APs like this and the product description states that it is a possibility in the future then I shouldn't be told later by an employee that it is not a possibility and we need to stop talking about it.

I like how a Question/Answer that is specifically there to tell people it isn't going to happen is being used as a glimmer of hope that it still may happen.

Product Description wrote:


Q: Will you be doing hardcover compilations of all of your Adventure Paths?
A: No.

They go on to qualify that they have no plans to reprint. Yes, they left it open for a faint, remotest possibility in case they change their mind someday in the future.

This however, is a product thread for Rise of the Runelords. If you want to start another thread about bringing back other APs elsewhere on the forums go ahead. Paizo has never locked down or discouraged those threads before. Other than to come say, time and again, that regularly compiling old APs discourages current subscribers so they don't do it.

I for one look forward to this special, unique, one of a kind product.

Sovereign Court

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Sgmendez wrote:


All I am saying is that if it is a possibility then don't tell me to shut up about it and if it is not a possibility then remove the part in the product description that says it is one.

Guys, can't we all agree that the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition is a great thing and just support it? I'm pretty sure that if we just do so, and show them that we ARE interested in buying such products (even those of us with an AP subscription), then maybe they'll reconsider it then.

I mean, it's totally understandable that they are afraid to lose some good customers if they tend to do this kind of release on a regular basis, and the last thing I want to see is a great company such as Paizo to have some financial problems because of a decision made in too much of a hurry.
Paizo has listened to their customers, A LOT, and if they think they can manage to do it, without shooting themselve in the foot, they will! Otherwise, Who knows, maybe they'll keep it going just as an Anniversary thing once every X years, or not.

Meanwhile, let's just all enjoy what they are doing for us, and support them for what a great job they are doing!

And I sure as hell can't wait for that Rise of the Runelord special edition!

Dark Archive

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Please DO NOT tone down the "Mama Graul" parts.
Keep them as they are or or crank up the "Deliverance" factor!!!!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
chopswil wrote:

Please DO NOT tone down the "Mama Graul" parts.

Keep them as they are or or crank up the "Deliverance" factor!!!!

What the Errata Man says!

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:
chopswil wrote:

Please DO NOT tone down the "Mama Graul" parts.

Keep them as they are or or crank up the "Deliverance" factor!!!!
What the Errata Man says!

We finally agree on something :)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
chopswil wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
chopswil wrote:

Please DO NOT tone down the "Mama Graul" parts.

Keep them as they are or or crank up the "Deliverance" factor!!!!
What the Errata Man says!
We finally agree on something :)

Oh I'm sure we will many times!


This is awesome! I have the originals, but I'll definitely pick this up anyway :)

Have the encounters been re-balanced for this release (primarily referring to the Rune Giant encounters, since they were CR 14 originally but CR 17 in Bestiary 2)?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Sgmendez wrote:
Sorry, but that supports my statement that we should not be told in a hostile manner to stop talking about something that is told to us in the product description.

First of all, I don't think Vic was being hostile in the least. Firm, direct, unsubtle, sure (and with reason), but hostile, not so much.

Second, the product description does not state that future compilations are a possibility. It flat out says we are not planning on it. It does not state that they are impossible, but that is not the same as saying they are possible (at least in English, not math). It absolutely is not the same as saying they are probable.

Product FAQ wrote:

Q: Will you be doing hardcover compilations of all of your Adventure Paths?

A: No. This is a special celebration of our very first Adventure Path on its 5th Anniversary. Several of the original volumes of Rise of the Runelords have been unavailable in print for a long time, yet it remains one of our most popular adventure paths; that circumstance presents a unique opportunity for us to expand and update it for use with the Pathfinder RPG, and to apply lessons we've learned about making Adventure Paths over the last half-decade. Our other adventure paths are largely still in print, and many of them were designed for use with the Pathfinder RPG to begin with; we have no plans to recompile them anytime soon.

It says "No." and elaborates on why the answer is "No." No matter how many times you quote the final sentence out of context will not change that.

It is not code for "we have plans to recompile them not soon i.e. later".

It is not code for "we expect to change our minds".

It is certainly not meant to be somehow construed as a reason to expect them.

Just to make sure things are clear, I've removed the words "anytime soon" from the product description, just in case more people take them to mean we have plans ever, as opposed to no plans at all.

I understand you'd like to see those products made, but this isn't the place to talk about it. We've made it clear why the expectation of hardcover compilations could be very bad for us


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Sgmendez wrote:
See the problem here is that you, Vic, stated in this comment that it is not going to happen. To me it reads "We will never compile another AP" and if that is not the intent then you shouldn't say it. Either you are open for compiling other APs or you are not, and if you are there is no harm in people saying that they would like it to happen.

I have been wanting to re-phrase Vic's position for him a number of times in this thread, so I'm going to try now.

Imagine Vic had said this:

"Paizo intends to never update and compile other adventure paths in the future."

That's what Vic wants known and understood. I personally think the phraseology "we do not intend to X" is too weak to express their position. There is not merely a lack of intent, there is actually unwillingness, reluctance, and desire to not do another one of these.

The risk behind anyone thinking otherwise is serious. The AP product line is Paizo's bread & butter. It's what makes all the other products possible, practical, and profitable. If compilations are likely or even suspected likely, some number of people will drop their AP subscriptions. The logic is "why subscribe when the product's going to be re-released later, updated, expanded, and hardcover?" Loss of subscriptions undermines the AP products. That's why Vic's made it clear, barring some serious change in circumstances, this is a one-time event.

Also a factor, let's keep in mind that RotR was produced when Paizo really didn't know if the AP products would sink or swim. Print runs were relatively conservative and demand was way higher than expected. So the print copies went out of supply earlier than expected. That's not normal for the other APs. This one has demand, mechanical opportunity to update, and an anniversary nostalgia factor.

Point is that it's supreme alignment of ideal factors that with any luck - from Paizo's perspective - won't ever happen again, regardless of what some customers might like. Like foods that clog your arteries and kill you... what you want may actually be bad for you.

Lantern Lodge

To begin with all I was originally saying was that it would be nice to have the Pre-PFRPG APs recompiled to use PFRPG rules. And Vic stated that it will never happen, to stop talking about it, and stop anyone else from talking about it. That to me was very hostile, because I was just voicing an opinion and desire and he told me to shut up.

And I understand now what he may have intended to say but that is not what he said. If I state that "I will pay rent on time" and then later say that the intent was that "I wouldn't pay rent to late" it holds no grounds cause that is not what I said, it doesn't matter what the intent was.

OK, I am fine with that. I was just saying if you have no plans to every do another AP then don't make it sound like there is the possibility. 0% is not the same as .01%, given enough time the later will happen. With that line removed the subject is dropped cause now there is no doubt that you will never make another one and speculation of it happening won't have any grounds.

Sorry for all of this. But I don't appreciate being told to shut up about something that has grounds for discussion.


Back to the AP at hand, which I am delighted to see as a special edition...

What level span can we expect? Same as the original?

Will there be new encounters/"in-game" content, or will the new material likely be for support and clarification only (ie An NPC gallery, a magic item compendium, incorporated errata, etc)?

Definitely excited for this one.


Bengaijin wrote:

Will there be new encounters/"in-game" content, or will the new material likely be for support and clarification only (ie An NPC gallery, a magic item compendium, incorporated errata, etc)?

Axe that question - I should read more carefully. If I did, I would know the answer is 'yes'.


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chopswil wrote:

Please DO NOT tone down the "Mama Graul" parts.

Keep them as they are or or crank up the "Deliverance" factor!!!!

In fact, this would be a great place to put the original, uncensored version of Hook Mountain Massacre back in!

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
KaeYoss wrote:
chopswil wrote:

Please DO NOT tone down the "Mama Graul" parts.

Keep them as they are or or crank up the "Deliverance" factor!!!!
In fact, this would be a great place to put the original, uncensored version of Hook Mountain Massacre back in!

Doubtful, but would be awesome


1 person marked this as a favorite.
KaeYoss wrote:


In fact, this would be a great place to put the original, uncensored version of Hook Mountain Massacre back in!

"Squeal like a dire boar!"

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns Subscriber

Let's just appreciate the fact that Paizo is doing this compilation in celebration of their Anniversary!! I personally would like to see Paizo move forward in their Pathfinder line and not live in the past by converting their beginning AP's. Don't get me wrong as I am excited for the revised RotRL but I am equally, if not more, excited to see what other products are to come. Game on friends!!

Dark Archive

the Haunted Jester wrote:
Let's just appreciate the fact that Paizo is doing this compilation in celebration of their Anniversary!! I personally would like to see Paizo move forward in their Pathfinder line and not live in the past by converting their beginning AP's. Don't get me wrong as I am excited for the revised RotRL but I am equally, if not more, excited to see what other products are to come. Game on friends!!

I am as excited as you are, but I'd still like to see the non-Pathfinder ones converted and compiled eventually. (And, dare I say it, in due course the Pathfinder ones converted to Pathfinder second edition.)

If Paizo does one every five years or so, that should prevent the problem of people cancelling subscriptions. Why buy the Shackles adventure path? You do know it's going to be brought out in hardcover for Pathfinder 2 in 2037, right?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
amethal wrote:
the Haunted Jester wrote:
Let's just appreciate the fact that Paizo is doing this compilation in celebration of their Anniversary!! I personally would like to see Paizo move forward in their Pathfinder line and not live in the past by converting their beginning AP's. Don't get me wrong as I am excited for the revised RotRL but I am equally, if not more, excited to see what other products are to come. Game on friends!!

I am as excited as you are, but I'd still like to see the non-Pathfinder ones converted and compiled eventually. (And, dare I say it, in due course the Pathfinder ones converted to Pathfinder second edition.)

If Paizo does one every five years or so, that should prevent the problem of people cancelling subscriptions. Why buy the Shackles adventure path? You do know it's going to be brought out in hardcover for Pathfinder 2 in 2037, right?

And at that point Paizo would go belly up as everybody would cancel their AP sub, safely sure that someday they will buy a collected, updated, upgraded (and cheaper) edition.

Shadow Lodge

amethal wrote:
And, dare I say it, in due course the Pathfinder ones converted to Pathfinder second edition.)

Wow. If they don't have the time or resources to convert 3 APs from 3.5 to PFRPG, what makes you think they would EVER have the time or resources to convert that many APs over to PF2E ? If they were to attempt that, they would probably have to simply shut down all other products for a couple of years minimum.

How about I make the suggestion that if, in ten years, you want to play Carrion Crown, instead of begging Paizo to convert it to PF2E, you just play it using PF1E rules?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

They are making this hardcover, as I understand it, NOT because it needs to be updated, but because it's Out of Print and highly demanded. The updating is just an added bonus. It's not that PFRPG is incompatible with the AP as it was. In any event, that's a discussion for a forum and not a product description thread.

Someone asked a question, beyond re-balancing encounters, about a CR difference between giants in Beastiary 2 versus the original module (14 v 17, apparently)... I'm sure the situation will be similar to other books, where many creatures just get a Bestiary page number but variants get their own statblock on the page.


Translation: Paizo might compile AP's in the future, if this compilation proves profitable. Part of the problem is that at 2 AP's a year there really isn't enough material to produce regular compilations. Also, Kingmaker and Carrion Crown, two of Paizo's most popular APs are relatively recent. The popularity of the APs between Rise of the Runelords and Kingmaker probably does not justify a compiled volume.

Personally, I expect that we are going to see a Kingmaker compilation in about three years, along with mini support.


Sgmendez wrote:
To begin with all I was originally saying was that it would be nice to have the Pre-PFRPG APs recompiled to use PFRPG rules. And Vic stated that it will never happen, to stop talking about it, and stop anyone else from talking about it. That to me was very hostile, because I was just voicing an opinion and desire and he told me to shut up.

I'm unsure if this helps the issue (and I hope I'm recalling this correctly), but I believe this is because of what occurred last time they released a compilation. When they were doing Dungeon magazine they compiled their first adventure path into a book. Later on, it seemed apparent that many people were canceled their subscriptions because they were waiting for the later compilation books. The very thought that they might print a compilation was enough to cause them to lose a lot of sales.

They want to avoid that thought from spreading and morphing to such that potential customers think that they won't bother with a subscription because they believe that there will be compilations of the best adventure paths later on.

If people think that there may possibly continue to do compilations, that is bad for them.

The Forgotten wrote:
Translation: Paizo might compile AP's in the future, if this compilation proves profitable.

Even if it is profitable, I doubt that they will compile anymore adventure paths because it has the potential of cutting off a significant portion of their monthly revenue.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

Rise of the Runelords is the only AP to have sold out parts. Paizo has no incentive to create a compilation of other APs that they are still trying to sell in their store.

On the other hand, they may do another Christmas bundle where you can buy all the volumes together at a discount.


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Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

I am a Charter AP Subscriber, so I have all six volumes. Also the Players Guide, and the Map Folio and I am still buying this!

Real life cancelled the game the last time I ran it just after Mammy Graul, but I have a new group and this will be awesome after we finish Kingmaker.

Pre-Ordered! And I can't wait for the miniature set supporting this to come out as I will buy that also.

Oh well, that's my birthday present for July 2012...

-- david
Papa.DRB

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Dark_Mistress wrote:
Actually I do have a question. Will the players guide be part of it as well? And will the players guide be expanded and updated like the more recent ones?

I'm gonna start answering these as I go, so apologies if I repeat any info...

The Rise of the Runelords Player's guide actually had VERY little information specifically about Rise of the Runelords. It was more like an Introduction to Golarion Player's Guide, to be honest.

We'll have some information about how to start your Runelords campaign in the book, though—exactly what sort of additional Player's Guide bonus content we'll have for the hardcover is unclear at this time.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Blazej wrote:
The Forgotten wrote:
Translation: Paizo might compile AP's in the future, if this compilation proves profitable.
Even if it is profitable, I doubt that they will compile anymore adventure paths because it has the potential of cutting off a significant portion of their monthly revenue.

Blazej is correct—the profitability of this book will not cause us to compile other APs.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Lazaro wrote:
KaeYoss wrote:
chopswil wrote:

Please DO NOT tone down the "Mama Graul" parts.

Keep them as they are or or crank up the "Deliverance" factor!!!!
In fact, this would be a great place to put the original, uncensored version of Hook Mountain Massacre back in!
Doubtful, but would be awesome

The maturity level of the content will not be changing either way.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Windjammer wrote:

1. How much of the added content is material you have already published elsewhere? E.g. the write up of Xin-Shalast in Lost Cities of Golarion, the Sandpoint NPC gallery in Jade Regent #1, the web freebie on Thassilonian magic, and so on? I'm asking because I'm wondering whether - above and beyond this being a golden opportunity for people who missed getting the path the first time round - there's enough added value for older customers who own these materials already.

2. What's the estimated overall page count? Roughly in the vicinity of Shackled City hardcover?

Thanks.

Edit. Two afterthoughts. First, print copies of the Runelords Player's Guide are still available cheaply at many places online. Second, might be worth pointing out that possession of Bestiary 2 is a prerequisite to using the Runelords hardcover (or at least, that's what I assume, otherwise you couldn't have cut down on the bestiary entries).

1) While some of the "added content" might come from other material we've published elsewhere (the writeup of Xin-Shalast in Lost Cities is a good example of a place we'll be looking at picking some stuff up from), the bulk of the "added content" will be new content that I'll be writing specifically for this printing of the campaign. That said... there won't be a LOT of new content in that regard—I'm still figuring out how much actual space for that kind of new stuff I'll have. I'll post more information about that when I have it.

2) Estimated page count is 420. Exactly the same size as the Shackled City book.

Edit) Again, the Runelords player's guide didn't really serve well as a specific for that AP player's guide, really. It was mostly geared at letting players know about Golarion. We don't have to do that now. We've got plenty of that kind of information already.

We WILL assume you'll have access to Bestiary 2 and even Bestiary 3 to run this one—those stats will be on the PRD though (I hope) by the time the book releases in any case. Being able to do short stat blocks of things like bunyips and lamia matriarchs and wendigos and the like is one of the primary ways I'll be able to add that new content, after all!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

CapeCodRPGer wrote:

I will be pre ordering this. I have a request thou.

The one thing I did not like about the Shackled City hardcover was all the monsters were listed alphabetally in the back. So I was always flipping back and forth when running it. Can Paizo please sort them by chapter/ alpahbetally?

The monster stats will be treated the same way as they have been in every Pathfinder AP—inline in the text as they are needed for their encounters. Placing the stats in the back in the way we did in the Shackled City book was an error, I think.

By placing the stats there in the encounter, at least if things run the way we anticipate, there's no page flipping since you're already on that page. By placing the stats in the back, we only guarantee you'll ALWAYS be page flipping when it comes to stats.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Caedwyr wrote:
Will the Ashvawg Tamer druid archetype/variant class be getting an update in this edition?

No. That variant played no part in the original adventure path, after all. It won't be part of the compilation, which is a compilation of the campaign, not all of the supplements.

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