Pathfinder Battles: Heroes & Monsters Brick

I suggest for everyone who has an issue with the distribution/marketing of this product to take it over to Wizkids and let them know because posting about here is really not the way to go....

On a different note, I agree with a lot of people because I too hate the randomness (see my first post in this thread for my reaction to the news) but I have since decided that it will be a necessary evil for this product to exist at all. Several people are hung up on the individual figure packaging, which sucks, but the next set will not be like that. However...there may not be a next set without Wizkids making some kind of money off of this one, so catch 22 there.

Two things:

1) WizKids folks are reading this thread (and we Paizo people are, even while at Gen Con), so there's no need to fear that messages posted here aren't being heard by the right people.

2) I am seriously not at all worried about this first set underselling to the point where there will not be a second set. Like, seriously not worried about it at all. Even if everyone who has raised a single concern about this set (and I _do_ understand a lot of those concerns and am not trying to discount them) decided that they absolutely could not buy any of the first set, I still think the first set would be a smashing success. Especially after seeing paint masters and sculpts here at Gen Con. The quality of these minis is going to make believers out of a lot of skeptics, and I am far more worried that we will not make enough to meet demand than I am that the line will sell so poorly that we immediately cancel it. That simply isn't going to happen.

Just to make sure!

I assume it does but just to make sure is the new pathfinder minis are "sized" to fit the pathfinder rule?

I mean by that do we have tiny, small, medium, large and even huge figs?

Yes. No Tinys as of yet, but so far we have minis planned for all of the other categories (and maybe even some bigger stuff...)

Thinking about the comment about how WizKids has used the model, single random mini, for the last two sets they put out, I wonder ... how many of those were sold individually? I mean, if you are buying cases either for personal consumption or to open them and sell them on the secondary market, it doesn't really make a lot of difference how they are packaged. I just wonder, are most of the sales on the cases level or are there lots of single booster sales as well with these sets?

I realize this is something that WizKids might not be able to determine, since they probably only sell cases and individual stores sell them by either the case, the random booster, or the opened mini.

I imagine the business model will be altered within a year.

One way to better imagine this scenario is to carefully read the news release, which explicitly states that the larger Rise of the Runelords set will be released in multi-figure boosters within seven months of the Heroes & Monsters set.

So I'd say that your prediction is sound.

Your company might lie to their customers. We don't.

Not telling is not the same as not lying, but this statement makes my brain want to bleed. The fact that no one else here blanched at this shows the strength of your marketing. Every company lies to their customer base. Some more than others, some with malice and some without, but no company is 100% honest OR 100% transparent with their customer base.

TWGG, I find it ironic that you can't imagine how a company could possibly turn a profit without lying to its customers. That doesn't speak well for the gecko business...

Thinking about the comment about how WizKids has used the model, single random mini, for the last two sets they put out, I wonder ... how many of those were sold individually? I mean, if you are buying cases either for personal consumption or to open them and sell them on the secondary market, it doesn't really make a lot of difference how they are packaged. I just wonder, are most of the sales on the cases level or are there lots of single booster sales as well with these sets?

I realize this is something that WizKids might not be able to determine, since they probably only sell cases and individual stores sell them by either the case, the random booster, or the opened mini.

This is anecdotal, of course, but I have seen these sets "in the wild" in three different places, two comic shops and in the collectible aisle in Target. In all cases, the box that holds all of the little boxes was about half-full, so I think it's pretty clear people were buying them as impulse items one or a handful at a time, and not as full cases or what have you.

pres man wrote:

Thinking about the comment about how WizKids has used the model, single random mini, for the last two sets they put out, I wonder ... how many of those were sold individually? I mean, if you are buying cases either for personal consumption or to open them and sell them on the secondary market, it doesn't really make a lot of difference how they are packaged. I just wonder, are most of the sales on the cases level or are there lots of single booster sales as well with these sets?

I realize this is something that WizKids might not be able to determine, since they probably only sell cases and individual stores sell them by either the case, the random booster, or the opened mini.

This is anecdotal, of course, but I have seen these sets "in the wild" in three different places, two comic shops and in the collectible aisle in Target. In all cases, the box that holds all of the little boxes was about half-full, so I think it's pretty clear people were buying them as impulse items one or a handful at a time, and not as full cases or what have you.

How are the Cap's selling here?

ThatWeirdGeckoGuy wrote:

CREATING a market is what a marketing department does, and Paizo has one of those.

Actually, no we do not.

And this is one of the reasons I love this company. :D

How are the Cap's selling here?

Do you mean on Paizo.com? I'm not sure I understand the question.

(And if that is the question, I actually have no idea.)

After having a few hours to cool off I still feel betrayed by Paizo. First the insanely horrid Humans of Golarion (cmon the least you could've done is told us on the cover that it was just a C&P job from Inner Sea Guide! Trap-splat books seem like a WotC thing and not a Paizo thing! I've come to expect exciting new material from Paizo and the book was a complete disaster in that regard.) and now this. It seems like everytime a ICV2 report comes out Paizo starts to shift closer and closer to the "Screw the customers, we're getting money!" mentality that WoTC has.

Please just stop it. Nobody wants to buy randomized miniatures and your product isn't enhanced by it one bit. It's just 100% customer screw. I don't care how well-done you think the miniatures are, I'm not buying them randomized.

However, Paizo has served me well in the past and my former claim of not buying future books was uncalled for. As long as Humans of Golarion was a fluke and the rest continue to be grandslams, I'll continue to buy books. Just consider me in "Red Alert" status here folks. Paizo has raised some red flags and I'm not entirely enthused about the direction they seem to be taking.

After having a few hours to cool off I still feel betrayed by Paizo. First the insanely horrid Humans of Golarion (cmon the least you could've done is told us on the cover that it was just a C&P job from Inner Sea Guide! Trap-splat books seem like a WotC thing and not a Paizo thing! I've come to expect exciting new material from Paizo and the book was a complete disaster in that regard.) and now this. It seems like everytime a ICV2 report comes out Paizo starts to shift closer and closer to the "Screw the customers, we're getting money!" mentality that WoTC has.

Please just stop it. Nobody wants to buy randomized miniatures and your product isn't enhanced by it one bit. It's just 100% customer screw. I don't care how well-done you think the miniatures are, I'm not buying them randomized.

This isn't true. Just read the thread, a lot of people have no problem with the random aspect.

pres man wrote:

How are the Cap's selling here?

Do you mean on Paizo.com? I'm not sure I understand the question.

(And if that is the question, I actually have no idea.)

How are the Marvel HeroClix: Captain America selling here (on Paizo.com)?

*Cap = shorthand for Captain America

Please just stop it. Nobody wants to buy randomized miniatures and your product isn't enhanced by it one bit. It's just 100% customer screw. I don't care how well-done you think the miniatures are, I'm not buying them randomized.

I get that you are not enthusiastic about this plan, and I respect both your opinion and your decision not to buy them. That is, of course, your right as a consumer.

That said, the idea that "no one" wants to buy randomized miniatures is absurd on its face and demonstrably untrue based on the huge number of orders we have seen for this product in just the three days since we announced it.

I think there is a tendency among gamers (or perhaps just humans in general), exhibited several times in this thread, to equate "I do not like" with "no one likes."

Very seldom does the world work in such absolute terms.

How are the Marvel HeroClix: Captain America selling here (on Paizo.com)?

*Cap = shorthand for Captain America

I figured that's what you meant. I have no way to determine that (especially not from the road at Gen Con). Lisa or someone else who works more closely with the webstore or warehouse aspect of the business may be able to provide more info, but even if so, we are not a huge outlet for HeroClix in general, and I think these products have a significant impulse element to them that works better on the shelf of a brick and mortar store than in a huge webstore.

However, Paizo has served me well in the past and my former claim of not buying future books was uncalled for. As long as Humans of Golarion was a fluke and the rest continue to be grandslams, I'll continue to buy books. Just consider me in "Red Alert" status here folks. Paizo has raised some red flags and I'm not entirely enthused about the direction they seem to be taking.

Consider us warned.

-Lisa

Yes. No Tinys as of yet, but so far we have minis planned for all of the other categories (and maybe even some bigger stuff...)

I sure would like a gargantuan green dragon...

(Not that I would be upset with other gargantuan dragons, but I'd REAAAAALLY like a gargantuan green!)

Erik Mona wrote:

Yes. No Tinys as of yet, but so far we have minis planned for all of the other categories (and maybe even some bigger stuff...)

I sure would like a gargantuan green dragon...

(Not that I would be upset with other gargantuan dragons, but I'd REAAAAALLY like a gargantuan green!)

I wouldn't be opposed to a new colossal Red Dragon to take the place of the DDM one...

Well, any dragons really. The black is the first of more to come I hope. When not used in a game they make fun decoration pieces for bookshelves/desks/etc!

Please just stop it. Nobody wants to buy randomized miniatures and your product isn't enhanced by it one bit. It's just 100% customer screw. I don't care how well-done you think the miniatures are, I'm not buying them randomized.

Just pre-ordered a second case of randomized miniatures that I don't want...

Lordofkhybr wrote:

Please just stop it. Nobody wants to buy randomized miniatures and your product isn't enhanced by it one bit. It's just 100% customer screw. I don't care how well-done you think the miniatures are, I'm not buying them randomized.

Just pre-ordered a second case of randomized miniatures that I don't want...

Yeah, I've got three of the useless things on the way - what's up with that?

It seems like everytime a ICV2 report comes out Paizo starts to shift closer and closer to the "Screw the customers, we're getting money!" mentality that WoTC has.

Are you suggesting that they are making a huge profit on this model? If so - why isnt anyone else doing it (and why do you think WoTC stopped for that matter)?

Erik Mona wrote:

Yes. No Tinys as of yet, but so far we have minis planned for all of the other categories (and maybe even some bigger stuff...)

I sure would like a gargantuan green dragon...

(Not that I would be upset with other gargantuan dragons, but I'd REAAAAALLY like a gargantuan green!)

My thoughts exactly.

It seems like everytime a ICV2 report comes out Paizo starts to shift closer and closer to the "Screw the customers, we're getting money!" mentality that WoTC has.

Any examples you'd care to provide?

Nobody wants to buy randomized miniatures

Ned, you're always wrong.

Let's review:

Steely Dan is not one person.
We get fringe benefits, not French benefits.
James Dean is an actor, Jimmy Dean makes sausage.

And you know what, Ned?

It's not the leaning tower of pizza.

So your business model is now going to be "pay us $20, and maybe we'll give you something you want, or maybe we'll give you something you have no use for and gloat as you throw it in the garbage"? Well OK, that's your choice, but I'm going to think a second and a third time before I buy anything from you again.

If this is such an awesome business model, why don't you use it for your rulebooks? Hey, look, it's my third copy of "Ultimate Magic", if I keep on buying rulebooks I'll get a copy of the core rules, sometime, too! And if it's such an awesome business model, how is it that companies selling metal miniatures have managed to stay in business for decades without resorting to it?

Lots of potential Red Lantern recruits here...

So your business model is now going to be "pay us $20, and maybe we'll give you something you want, or maybe we'll give you something you have no use for and gloat as you throw it in the garbage"? Well OK, that's your choice, but I'm going to think a second and a third time before I buy anything from you again.

If this is such an awesome business model, why don't you use it for your rulebooks? Hey, look, it's my third copy of "Ultimate Magic", if I keep on buying rulebooks I'll get a copy of the core rules, sometime, too! And if it's such an awesome business model, how is it that companies selling metal miniatures have managed to stay in business for decades without resorting to it?

I am not expert on the miniatures production market, but from what I've heard metal miniatures are cheaper to get started. The molds are cheaper and thus they can make a better profit on small production runs than plastics can. Plastics in order to cover their start up costs have to make larger production runs and thus must sell more miniatures to get the same level of profit as metal miniatures. That is why you can have small companies produce metal miniatures, but not produce plastic ones at the same production scale. That's what I heard anyway.

Yeah, I've got three of the useless things on the way - what's up with that?

Yeah, What Up With That?

So your business model is now going to be "pay us $20, and maybe we'll give you something you want, or maybe we'll give you something you have no use for and gloat as you throw it in the garbage"? Well OK, that's your choice, but I'm going to think a second and a third time before I buy anything from you again.

If this is such an awesome business model, why don't you use it for your rulebooks? Hey, look, it's my third copy of "Ultimate Magic", if I keep on buying rulebooks I'll get a copy of the core rules, sometime, too! And if it's such an awesome business model, how is it that companies selling metal miniatures have managed to stay in business for decades without resorting to it?

This might be a good time to read the rest of the thread, and maybe to listen to the words of those who know a bit more about the realities of the fantasy pre-painted plastic minis business.

Because, man, your attitude here? Not great.

So your business model is now going to be "pay us $20, and maybe we'll give you something you want, or maybe we'll give you something you have no use for and gloat as you throw it in the garbage"? Well OK, that's your choice, but I'm going to think a second and a third time before I buy anything from you again.

If this is such an awesome business model, why don't you use it for your rulebooks? Hey, look, it's my third copy of "Ultimate Magic", if I keep on buying rulebooks I'll get a copy of the core rules, sometime, too! And if it's such an awesome business model, how is it that companies selling metal miniatures have managed to stay in business for decades without resorting to it?

The reasons for it have been explained many times in this thread. Whether or not you believe it is up to you. And I'm sure you realize books and minis are much different products. So of course they are sold differently. Also nice to note that pre painted plastics are different from metal minis.

Also, and this is not directed at you, or anyone specific, I don't understand all the hate. Up until recently there were no Pathfinder pre painted plastic minis. If you don't like the product, or the way it is being sold, don't buy it. Why not pretend it doesn't exist, as it didn't a few months ago. They aren't taking your books away, or forcing you to buy the minis. Paizo puts out plenty of products I have no interest in(I am interested in these though). But their mere existence doesn't offend me, or cause me to rage on the message boards. I simply don't buy them, and focus on the products I am interested in.

After having a few hours to cool off I still feel betrayed by Paizo. First the insanely horrid Humans of Golarion (cmon the least you could've done is told us on the cover that it was just a C&P job from Inner Sea Guide! Trap-splat books seem like a WotC thing and not a Paizo thing! I've come to expect exciting new material from Paizo and the book was a complete disaster in that regard.) and now this. It seems like everytime a ICV2 report comes out Paizo starts to shift closer and closer to the "Screw the customers, we're getting money!" mentality that WoTC has.

Please just stop it. Nobody wants to buy randomized miniatures and your product isn't enhanced by it one bit. It's just 100% customer screw. I don't care how well-done you think the miniatures are, I'm not buying them randomized.

However, Paizo has served me well in the past and my former claim of not buying future books was uncalled for. As long as Humans of Golarion was a fluke and the rest continue to be grandslams, I'll continue to buy books. Just consider me in "Red Alert" status here folks. Paizo has raised some red flags and I'm not entirely enthused about the direction they seem to be taking.

I really wonder, what direction it is you think Paizo is going to?!

I've been reading along with this thread from the start.

I'm more of a collector. As a first reaction to the press release, I thought "Meh, randomized? Don't really like that." The explanation of why this is, in fact, necessary sounds convincing to me, though. The fact that getting a case should net me a complete collection also makes it better; and who knows, maybe I'll even have use for the duplicates I'll be getting by getting a case.

I have a feeling that my group will buy some of these miniatures when they are in a multi set format.

Six dollars for one plastic medium-sized miniature that's going to be random is not my cup of tea. Especially when it's likely to be deformed (bent swords, turned arms, leaning) or some absolutely disappointing miniature.

For the record, I love my myconid guard, but like if I paid six dollars and pulled him from a booster...

I have no doubt that this will sell adequately to very well. I'm just not a gambling man.

... Also, do the large miniatures just look short to you guys?

I might get a few.... till I run into more of what I already have from other mini sources.

For the price of a crate? I think I would pick up five to six more books, that which I can open and look inside of.

I would have been happier if the fine people making the minis in work with pathfinder thought a bit bigger and sold a 'wall of minis', with individual pricing for each one.

Five to seven dollars for something you would have too paint vs. something all ready to go, out of plastic, for the same price? I would think that would push more people who run Pathfinder games, with a bit more of a justification, to pick up these minis that would be needed as the best complement to your adventure paths.

I dunno, Like I was sayin', I will buy some of these, lets just keep them fingers crossed.

I have a feeling that my group will buy some of these miniatures when they are in a multi set format.

Six dollars for one plastic medium-sized miniature that's going to be random is not my cup of tea. Especially when it's likely to be deformed (bent swords, turned arms, leaning) or some absolutely disappointing miniature.

For the record, I love my myconid guard, but like if I paid six dollars and pulled him from a booster...

I have no doubt that this will sell adequately to very well. I'm just not a gambling man.

... Also, do the large miniatures just look short to you guys?

Six dollars is the price for 1 large mini. Four dollars will get you 1 medium or 2 smalls. Also, there will be single minis for sale here, and through other resellers. So if ya wanna go that route, you can.

As far as the large minis looking "short", I dunno, I need to see them next to something else I know the size of.

It seems like everytime a ICV2 report comes out Paizo starts to shift closer and closer to the "Screw the customers, we're getting money!" mentality that WoTC has.

Please just stop it. Nobody wants to buy randomized miniatures and your product isn't enhanced by it one bit. It's just 100% customer screw. I don't care how well-done you think the miniatures are, I'm not buying them randomized.

Then don't. Its a good decision to not spend money on things you don't like.

But they even explained the business decision on why they are selling them randomized. And given that WotC stopped producing Minis, you better hope the Paizo/WizKids line sells well.

You can also look at the randomized part as an advantage: OK, maybe you won't get some of the rares easily, but you'll find the common ones below cost at miniature resellers within no time.

Paizo has raised some red flags and I'm not entirely enthused about the direction they seem to be taking.

I'm sure they are trembling in fear of your further judgement.

Just want to mention that 1 case is pre-ordered here as well.

I also bought 100+ of figurines in bags for less than 150$ on several websites, but those were coming from random sets...

so my idea is that this PF set will sell really good, and that we'll see new bags with really common/duplicates soon :) and that will make the non-randommers happy, so they'll be able to buy whatever they want at a cheaper price

hey, 4$ a mini is not that huge, but lots of people before me mentioned that buying a brick/case lower that even more. (not speaking of subscription benefits...)

I never had the feeling, that Paizo is ONLY about the money. Sure, they need to calculate, they need to make money, 'cause they want to keep their jobs as you like to keep yours.

It's a good thing for all the fans that Paizo is also about the money. Too many gaming or hobby companies focused on 'creating the perfect product', ignored the realities of business and went bankrupt in no time. That doesn't help any fan, as there won't be any new products, at all.

We should be happy Paizo is in such capable hands and will likely produce new stuff for a long time. Yay.

Hi,

Do you have a list of the different minis and their size (small, medium, large) ?
Is the small 25mm format ?
Can we order the big black dragon only if we preorder the case ?

Sincerely

So your business model is now going to be "pay us $20, and maybe we'll give you something you want, or maybe we'll give you something you have no use for and gloat as you throw it in the garbage"? Well OK, that's your choice, but I'm going to think a second and a third time before I buy anything from you again.

If this is such an awesome business model, why don't you use it for your rulebooks? Hey, look, it's my third copy of "Ultimate Magic", if I keep on buying rulebooks I'll get a copy of the core rules, sometime, too! And if it's such an awesome business model, how is it that companies selling metal miniatures have managed to stay in business for decades without resorting to it?

The reasons for it have been explained many times in this thread. Whether or not you believe it is up to you. And I'm sure you realize books and minis are much different products. So of course they are sold differently. Also nice to note that pre painted plastics are different from metal minis.

Also, and this is not directed at you, or anyone specific, I don't understand all the hate. Up until recently there were no Pathfinder pre painted plastic minis. If you don't like the product, or the way it is being sold, don't buy it. Why not pretend it doesn't exist, as it didn't a few months ago. They aren't taking your books away, or forcing you to buy the minis. Paizo puts out plenty of products I have no interest in(I am interested in these though). But their mere existence doesn't offend me, or cause me to rage on the message boards. I simply don't buy them, and focus on the products I am interested in.

All excellent points. I would add that it's not even a Paizo product. It's a third-party product (WizKids) sold under license. Which makes the Paizo hate even nuttier to me (not that I'm promoting WizKids hate, either).

Anyone who thinks Paizo should produce a large assortment of high quality, non-randomized, inexpensive pre-painted plastic minis should also let us know which company is going to produce these for them? Paizo has (wisely, I think) let a miniatures company produce the actual miniatures.

Lisa and Eric,

I have a question or two.

Did I understand correctly that Paizo will be cracking cases and selling the miniatures individually? And if so, then coming from Paizo these individual miniature sells would not fully be secondary market. And would this not take some of the randomness out of the equation?

Personally, I am getting a case, maybe two. Each booster that I open will be like Christmas.

Later,

Mazra

Lisa and Eric,

I have a question or two.

Did I understand correctly that Paizo will be cracking cases and selling the miniatures individually? And if so, then coming from Paizo these individual miniature sells would not fully be secondary market. And would this not take some of the randomness out of the equation?

Personally, I am getting a case, maybe two. Each booster that I open will be like Christmas.

Later,

Mazra

Since they likely aren't up yet... let me try to tackle this.

Paizo would be getting cases of minis from WizKids. In the same shipment that your and my cases would be coming out of. Now last time I checked, no one at Paizo has super powers to look into the cases and pick the best packs for themselves. So they'll be opening boxes (waves to Interns) and sorting just as you and I will in our cases. Will they have more than a case or two? Yeah. But their presense in the 'secondary market' would be just the same as popularcollections.com would be, or you or I if we sold minis on e-bay.

To assume that they'll be getting supra secret all rare sets... well you'd have to be licking lizards to buy into that. And I'm sure you're not ;-)

No. I doubt there are any suprasecret rare sets. It is just, with the Pathfinder brand on the box, coming from Paizo, you would be getting it closer to the source than from anywhere else. The biggest complaint I see is randomness. As soon as Paizo or for that matter anyone else start selling these miniatures individually, there goes the randomness. You may not like the price. That is called free market capitalism. Free miniatures for all I doubt will ever be in the cards.

Later,

Mazra

The only correction I will make to that is that I am relatively sure that it won't be interns who open all of the minis packs to generate the singles sales. If it's anything like Star Wars or DDM, I'm fairly certain it will be Lisa and Vic. :)

The only correction I will make to that is that I am relatively sure that it won't be interns who open all of the minis packs to generate the singles sales. If it's anything like Star Wars or DDM, I'm fairly certain it will be Lisa and Vic. :)

Oh, you are awake!

Go back to sleep Eric, I've got this one ;-)

No. I doubt there are any suprasecret rare sets. It is just, with the Pathfinder brand on the box, coming from Paizo, you would be getting it closer to the source than from anywhere else. The biggest complaint I see is randomness. As soon as Paizo or for that matter anyone else start selling these miniatures individually, there goes the randomness. You may not like the price. That is called free market capitalism. Free miniatures for all I doubt will ever be in the cards.

Later,

Mazra

*claps* I agree. The randomness keeps the price low for the intial offering, the subsequent secondary market is subject to the whims of supply and demand.

Heck, I paid $200 for Ptolus (Then it got stolen) because that was how much demand I had for the book, and that was how much the supply was worth. I bought a slave leia, count Douko, Asoka Tano and Wedge minis because I enjoyed the characters, I don't even play the game. Imperial Knights make good hellknight proxies (or guards in CotCT) etc.

The only correction I will make to that is that I am relatively sure that it won't be interns who open all of the minis packs to generate the singles sales. If it's anything like Star Wars or DDM, I'm fairly certain it will be Lisa and Vic. :)

Ahhh, the olden days. :) Erik is right, that Vic and I (and Jeff Alvarez) were the ones who many times opened up DDM and Star Wars minis in the past. But now we have a crack team of warehouse folks we didn't have back then, so my mini busting days are over.

-Lisa

I noticed some other folks putting in a call for (at the least) a gargantuan green dragon. I'd like to throw my own support behind that idea! Also, maybe a gargantuan red. And how about a gargantuan ravener?

I would most certainly buy one of each of those.

And can we hope to eventually see some of the Spawn of Rovagug?

Brian E. Harris wrote:

Erik Mona wrote:

Yes. No Tinys as of yet, but so far we have minis planned for all of the other categories (and maybe even some bigger stuff...)

I sure would like a gargantuan green dragon...

(Not that I would be upset with other gargantuan dragons, but I'd REAAAAALLY like a gargantuan green!)

I wouldn't be opposed to a new colossal Red Dragon to take the place of the DDM one...

Well, any dragons really. The black is the first of more to come I hope. When not used in a game they make fun decoration pieces for bookshelves/desks/etc!

I'd buy any Colossal model they put out. Except a Colossal Earth Elemental because, well, rocks.

I noticed some other folks putting in a call for (at the least) a gargantuan green dragon. I'd like to throw my own support behind that idea! Also, maybe a gargantuan red. And how about a gargantuan ravener?

I would most certainly buy one of each of those.

And can we hope to eventually see some of the Spawn of Rovagug?

I want Blues. Paizo blues are so much cooler than the blues I currently have. (I can then give them to niece and nephew once I get superior blues)

As has been rightly pointed out to you several times just in this thread and probably countless times over the past year in other threads, there are people other than you in the world. They might even hold opinions different from yours and react differently to similar stimuli.

The point is I don't remotely see how selling minis that give no benefit for a game other than character representation would encourage people to buy the game they are representing characters for. There is no driving incentive. For D&D/PF players to buy the minis? Some in that they want character representation. For people buying the minis to spontaneously deciding to pick up rule books for a game they (a) aren't playing and (b) can find the rules for free online simply because they bought character minis is ridiculous.

WizKids has actually had a lot of luck with this format, and has been releasing a lot of HeroClix sets this way over the last year or so. Since we signed a deal with them, they have released a Green Lantern and Captain America set this way, to strong sales.

I will just presume you missed the various posts suggesting that there may be a difference between "Collectible Miniature Games" and "Miniatures that can be collected and are not a game."

Further, this is not significantly different than the way a lot of capsule/boxed toys are sold as impulse/collector items in Japan and Europe. Kubricks, for example, are packed almost exclusively in single-toy blind boxes, as are several brands from highly successful brands like KidRobot.

That is ACTUALLY a valid point, and the only valid one produced thus far in support of this marketing method, though Japan is a silly place. I know Kubricks are sold to Japanophiles and geeks as a Japanophile thing, but I don't really see them in stores anywhere.

Cartigan wrote:

I imagine the business model will be altered within a year.

One way to better imagine this scenario is to carefully read the news release, which explicitly states that the larger Rise of the Runelords set will be released in multi-figure boosters within seven months of the Heroes & Monsters set.

So I'd say that your prediction is sound.

Clearly I am clairvoyant.

Erik Mona wrote:

The only correction I will make to that is that I am relatively sure that it won't be interns who open all of the minis packs to generate the singles sales. If it's anything like Star Wars or DDM, I'm fairly certain it will be Lisa and Vic. :)

Ahhh, the olden days. :) Erik is right, that Vic and I (and Jeff Alvarez) were the ones who many times opened up DDM and Star Wars minis in the past. But now we have a crack team of warehouse folks we didn't have back then, so my mini busting days are over.

-Lisa

It's good to be the king... erm, queen.