Sooo... Any chance we get a stat mods total that is positive instead of neutral as it is now for goblins? Although the +4 dex bonus, +4 stealth bonus for being small and +4 stealth bonus for being a goblinoid are awesome!
Honestly. A goblin rogue will NEVER be seen!
Actually, goblins are pretty balanced (though their racial traits are few). The +4 Dex easily makes up for the -2 Strength and Con.
Actually, goblins are pretty balanced (though their racial traits are few). The +4 Dex easily makes up for the -2 Strength and Con.Sooo... Any chance we get a stat mods total that is positive instead of neutral as it is now for goblins? Although the +4 dex bonus, +4 stealth bonus for being small and +4 stealth bonus for being a goblinoid are awesome!
Honestly. A goblin rogue will NEVER be seen!
Erm...
*Ahem*I meant Strength and CHARISMA.
So what sort of material will there be for goblins as player characters?Some feats, some new spells, a few magic items, some new subdomains, some traits, and two pages of coaching on how playing a PC goblin isn't a license to play a disruptive neutral evil cooperation destroyer. :-P
... and why is that last article only just appearing now in a book on goblins? We needed that in the core book for non-goblin PCs. :b
I've updated the image and description to match the finished product.
Sweeeeeeeeeeeet.
Gang I could use your help. Although the goblin book is still many months away, I am having trouble convincing a couple friends that goblins can be ninjas. They believe they lack the discipline and don't fit into Golorion at all. I like to believe that with a little creativity anything in this game is possible but I need some plausible ideas on how a creature one step up from a Gremlin (the movies) could become a ninja.
Thoughts?
believe it or not somewhere buried in my dusty boxes of stuff from high school is an old magazine with a whole article on Goblin Ninjas. It's either an old issue of Dragon or White Dwarf. It's from way back when D&D was in 2nd edition, maybe even 1st.
Somewhere, some Goblin, inspired by eating a colorful variety of mushroom, created an entire Goblin Ninja Clan. That's about all the details of it I can remember. The article approached the idea from both angles suggesting DMs could play them just for comedy or make them into a legitimate threat.
This is also where I point out that even if you only ever read an RPG book and "all" it does is entertain you in the same way that reading a novel or comic or whatever entertains you, then the money you spent on it is hardly wasted. In my opinion... an RPG product doesn't need to actually be used in play to justify its purchase.
I haven't played a game yet, and I own all of your books, and subscribe to most of your lines. This is the stuff I read for fun. Keep them coming!
:)
At long last we'll learn why goblins, who only speak goblin, write songs in common.
It is probably some non-goblin writing these songs down since writing is their greatest Taboo because it steals the words from your head.
Would love to see a crossover with Super Genius Games and Kragnar the goblin merchant in thier loot for less series..lol
Am I the only one who downloaded this before Ultimate Combat?
Love this book. Full of great stuff. Can't wait to run another Goblin one shot. I just hope they do a Kobolds of Golarion next. ;)
"Goblins are fast, but weak and unpleasant to be around."
This obscurantist tract is full of such vile lies and racist slander from the second sentence in.
I advise all peoples of good heart and good faith to boycott this foul tome. Please join me tomorrow at noon outside the Arch of the Revolution in downtown Azurestone for a public immolation of this filth and other reactionary propaganda published by Paizo.
Long live the revolution!
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"Goblins are fast, but weak and unpleasant to be around."
This obscurantist tract is full of such vile lies and racist slander from the second sentence in.
Pish, you've outed yourself pretend-goblin!
A goblin is as likely to be offended by libelous text as an Amish person is to hop on Twitter and complain about an unflattering Youtube video of his barn-raising.
A goblin is as likely to be offended by libelous text as an Amish person is to hop on Twitter and complain about an unflattering Youtube video of his barn-raising.
More anti-goblin lies! Goblins can read!
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I was disappointed to see no notes of goblins in the time of the runelords. This caught my eye though.
Today, Golarion’s goblins have strayed far from their ancestral homes. The largest concentrations of goblins exist along the coastline of Varisia, where it is said Zogmugot first walked into the sea, and Isger, where Venkelvore’s far-reaching children rode wolves into the mountains.
[Emphasis Mine]
So is this just a subjective retelling of the legend "Here is where the coastline is now, so this must be where she walked" or do Goblins postdate the Runelords?
I'm surprised not to see the goblin dog listed in goblin equipment. I would have thought they might have priced out the dog. How does a goblin come by a goblin dog? Animal companion, sure, but how about the run of the mill goblin dog?
So I'm slowly working my way through this. Has anyone else noticed a large amount of Goblin Pirate material? Or materials to make a Goblin Pirate? I'm seriously looking at you, picture on pg 18!
It's like Paizo has been read my brains for the last few years since I started thinking of making a Goblin Pirate. Then my wife found a Reaper mini of a Goblin Pirate with Powder Monkey....
So I'm slowly working my way through this. Has anyone else noticed a large amount of Goblin Pirate material? Or materials to make a Goblin Pirate? I'm seriously looking at you, picture on pg 18!
It's like Paizo has been read my brains for the last few years since I started thinking of making a Goblin Pirate. Then my wife found a Reaper mini of a Goblin Pirate with Powder Monkey....
If you want awesome minis related to this i would check out rackhams old goblin pirate line for the Confrontation game (can still find them on ebay). Great minis if you ask me...
As for this discussion, i must say, why not make this a playable race in PFS... So far i have heard a bunch of people say that they would not allow it because basically it offends their hardline Tolkien view on DnD, well thats good for them, but why should those that want to play a gobbo in PFS not be able to... Because they don't "fit" into society... frankly that is a very easy fix. A new tribe of "civilized" goblins has emerged and even sought to befriend the other civilized races, the pathfinders have done a social experiment rescuing baby gobbos from their wicked brethren and raised them to be allies, a new goblin oracle, desiring progression and evolution to a more civilized and therefore powerful goblin society (though not necessarily "good"), has emerged and has begun to challenge established goblin warlords and gathering more and more goblins to his side and has established peaceful relations with humans, etc etc. I could come up with many more reasons to have this work and im sure Paizo could blow me out of the water with creativity in this regard. So why not? Let those that don't want to play them, not buy this book or play gobbos at their discretion. Just seems silly to me to put all this work into it and have it only be a dm tool at best. I agree with a previous post that legalizing this book would also boost sale greatly. It is a balanced race with endless roleplaying opportunity that can only add to the experiences of those that would want to play them. For what it is worth (not much) i would say legalize them.
Little Red Goblin Games fully endorses the use of goblins in games. This product should be bought and used by every player immediately :D
Creative Director
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I was disappointed to see no notes of goblins in the time of the runelords. This caught my eye though.
Today, Golarion’s goblins have strayed far from their ancestral homes. The largest concentrations of goblins exist along the coastline of Varisia, where it is said Zogmugot first walked into the sea, and Isger, where Venkelvore’s far-reaching children rode wolves into the mountains.[Emphasis Mine]
So is this just a subjective retelling of the legend "Here is where the coastline is now, so this must be where she walked" or do Goblins postdate the Runelords?
I'm sure the goblins don't know.
(But yes... there were goblins in Varisia before Thassilon came along. And it's worth noting that Varisia's coastline was VERY different during Thassilon, in any case.)
As for this discussion, i must say, why not make this a playable race in PFS...
Because no one would play halflings or gnomes anymore.
They're far better at stealthy and ranged classes than either, so unless you want to play a sorcerer or spell-focused bard, the goblin is the superior choice for a small character, mechanically.
+4 dex, +4 to stealth and ride, 30' movement and darkvision is that good. Their culture and general repulsiveness is why they haven't wiped out the gnomes, not their base stats.
I'm GMing a goblin party in PbP, and they're absolutely sick at 2nd level.
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As for this discussion, i must say, why not make this a playable race in PFS... So far i have heard a bunch of people say that they would not allow it because basically it offends their hardline Tolkien view on DnD, well thats good for them, but why should those that want to play a gobbo in PFS not be able to... Because they don't "fit" into society... frankly that is a very easy fix.
I'd say, greater than society as a whole, they don't fit in to the Pathfinder Society. Remember their mission - to go forth, explore, and RECORD what they find. This is distinctly anti-goblin, is it not?
A new tribe of "civilized" goblins has emerged and even sought to befriend the other civilized races, the pathfinders have done a social experiment rescuing baby gobbos from their wicked brethren and raised them to be allies, a new goblin oracle, desiring progression and evolution to a more civilized and therefore powerful goblin society (though not necessarily "good"), has emerged and has begun to challenge established goblin warlords and gathering more and more goblins to his side and has established peaceful relations with humans, etc etc. I could come up with many more reasons to have this work and im sure Paizo could blow me out of the water with creativity in this regard.
Those are workable stories, I suppose, but they're really not Golarion goblins any more. At your home game this probably works fine, but in PFS where everyone is trying to share a consistent world, glaring exceptions to the setting can be difficult if not impossible.
So why not? Let those that don't want to play them, not buy this book or play gobbos at their discretion. Just seems silly to me to put all this work into it and have it only be a dm tool at best. I agree with a previous post that legalizing this book would also boost sale greatly. It is a balanced race with endless roleplaying opportunity that can only add to the experiences of those that would want to play them. For what it is worth (not much) i would say legalize them.
Again, though, you're lobbying for a change in the setting. I might just as easily beg them to ban firearms as a choice that makes sense to me. However, they obviously went in a different direction and without un-printing a large amount of text, it's largely impossible to tell PFS that guns no longer exist. Vis-a-vis literate goblins. And/or non-dog/horse-hating goblins. Making this happen would probably come at too high a cost.
They could have included rules for the Lt Worf of goblins, but remember that even Worf was a Klingon at heart. He strived to be an excellent Starfleet officer, but never ever would have considered abandoning his Klingon ways completely. Same as a goblin wouldn't be likely to fit in in a Lodge even if raised by humans.
In short, it contradicts too much of their work to make Golarion gobs different.
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I agree that this is one of the best companion products yet.
I agree that goblins would be a huge success if players could play them in PFS and pathfinder in general. They'd add a unique flavor to PF. (I don't recall many other d&d based games letting you play them as a base class)
I agree that it would be fairly easy to incorporate a new tribe into the main game and the Pathfinders that did make sense.
I disagree that nobody would want to play a gnome or halfling. I'd never pick a goblin summoner, oracle, bard, or paladin over the gnomes and halflings.
To me, Goblins are looked down upon by pretty much everyone and everything. They should have some inherent social flaws built into them, as well as GMs making sure to constantly have everyone react accordingly to them. I'd suggest a -4 racial penalty to diplomacy and intimidate. That way gnomes and halflings would still be great choices for social or magical characters.
As for being more civilized than normal goblins, I would imagine that normal goblins would hate these new ones with a passion. Some additional "hatred" rule that is a negative aspect of the new goblins could go a long way. Basically, all non-player normal goblins (this could be expanded to similar creatures as well) treat goblin player-characters as a favored enemy, no matter the class.
There are a million fun things you could do to fit them in and have them make sense. Thematically, they are super fun. It's the balance that needs slight adjustments. Mainly just a way to counterbalance with gnomes and halflings.
I recognize that James has posted and i know that that the status quo has been upheld for the time being but i would still like to reply to McBobbo's points, as the issue is put to rest for now but may be brought back up later.
I'd say, greater than society as a whole, they don't fit in to the Pathfinder Society. Remember their mission - to go forth, explore, and RECORD what they find. This is distinctly anti-goblin, is it not?
Same could be said by a person back in season 1 about the Shadow lodge...
Those are workable stories, I suppose, but they're really not Golarion goblins any more. At your home game this probably works fine, but in PFS where everyone is trying to share a consistent world, glaring exceptions to the setting can be difficult if not impossible.
How so? The very product we are talking about in this thread has an entire section detailing Goblins as player characters... I think this fact proves you wrong about your view on the goblins. Although it does say you are a freak's freak it also say there could be exceptions to the rule. I see goblin's as a very prolific and common race and as such, i tend to take the perspective that they can be as varied as say... humans. As to the glaring exeptions... again i point to the shadow lodge. It can be done when they (Paizo) say it is. Right now it is no. Fair enough but it does not change my question of "Why not?"
Again, though, you're lobbying for a change in the setting. I might just as easily beg them to ban firearms as a choice that makes sense to me. However, they obviously went in a different direction and without un-printing a large amount of text, it's largely impossible to tell PFS that guns no longer exist. Vis-a-vis literate goblins. And/or non-dog/horse-hating goblins. Making this happen would probably come at too high a cost.
It is totally different when trying to remove vs. granting... Also keep in mind a lot fo PFS is in PDF and even books can be amended via errata.
They could have included rules for the Lt Worf of goblins, but remember that even Worf was a Klingon at heart. He strived to be an excellent Starfleet officer, but never ever would have considered abandoning his Klingon ways completely. Same as a goblin wouldn't be likely to fit in in a Lodge even if raised by humans.
And yet Worf was one of the most memorable characters on STNG. He also stayed with the crew to the end... Goblins could provide many chances for those that want to play one for role-playing reasons to have fun and explore a new, if silly option.
In short, it contradicts too much of their work to make Golarion gobs different.
In contrast i would say that allowing this would only expand goblins and evolve them further without contradicting anything they have already done.
Because no one would play halflings or gnomes anymore.
They're far better at stealthy and ranged classes than either, so unless you want to play a sorcerer or spell-focused bard, the goblin is the superior choice for a small character, mechanically.
+4 dex, +4 to stealth and ride, 30' movement and darkvision is that good. Their culture and general repulsiveness is why they haven't wiped out the gnomes, not their base stats.
I'm GMing a goblin party in PbP, and they're absolutely sick at 2nd level.
That is not my experience at all. Firstly you are referring to metagaming/power-gaming and as such, does not apply to many players who want to play the race for the RP element. That said I too have GMed goblins as i love to run events and home brew. There are tons of reasons to play Gnomes and halflings. Goblins excel at only two main aspects over the other races, stealth and ride. This means they make good stealth/acrobatics based rogues and decent small cavs... Well sorry to bust your bubble, but both those classes are not exactly the most powerful classes in the game. As you mentioned (sort of), a power-gamer would not choose goblins over gnomes for any cha based caster/ character (to include social/skill monkey rogues, one of the main reasons to play a rogue btw). Well, right there is a reason to play a gnome or halfling... I have not found that goblins overpowered any of the other races, certainly not to the level to exclude them as a player race. If you haven't already, i would be curious if you felt the same way if you had other non-goblin races playing alongside some goblin characters all of whom know what they are doing, and keep going in levels. I would be curious if you would see a huge disparity between them.
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This has been a really fun read. This is also what I wish Orcs of Golarion had been. It's a much stronger book, and while the orc book pretty much went out of its way to shut down players wanting to play orcs as something other than CE, the goblin book acknowledges that a wider range is possible and touches on how to integrate them into a standard party without being disruptive. This is much more useful to players in general.
If we get more Humanoids of Golarion books in this line, I hope they take their cues from this book.
Also, the pirate goblins pic is mindbreakingly adorable. :)
This book was incredibly good fun to work on, and I'm really glad it's proving an enjoyable and hopefully useful read.
Although the advert here has my name written on it, the very fine Mr Hal Maclean had every much as much input and some awesome ideas, if not more than me. Any plaudits must deservedly go his way too, although I am a little worried about his mental state.
Plus of course the twisted Mr Jacobs, the daddy of goblins, but that goes without saying.
Keep a watch out for puppies!
Rich
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'm sure the goblins don't know.
(But yes... there were goblins in Varisia before Thassilon came along. And it's worth noting that Varisia's coastline was VERY different during Thassilon, in any case.)
Good to know. I remembered that part of the continent got nuked in the history given in RotRL, that's what got me wondering.
I finally had the chance to look this over last night and it was pretty interesting. I love the Goblin Equipment, our DM has used fetishes before and now there is a listing for their holy symbol. :)
Although I was a little disappointed that there was no listing for Hobgoblins at all in the book (from what I saw, at least). In our current campaign, we are playing a party of Hobgoblins and it would have been nice to see some flavor or additional crunch for them.
But otherwise, a good book!
I just hope they do a Kobolds of Golarion next. ;)+1! As the saying seems to go.
I love this book and I would like a Kobold book too.
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Creative Director
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I finally had the chance to look this over last night and it was pretty interesting. I love the Goblin Equipment, our DM has used fetishes before and now there is a listing for their holy symbol. :)
Although I was a little disappointed that there was no listing for Hobgoblins at all in the book (from what I saw, at least). In our current campaign, we are playing a party of Hobgoblins and it would have been nice to see some flavor or additional crunch for them.
But otherwise, a good book!
We didn't want to spend much time on non-goblins in the book, and that included hobgoblins and bugbears.
They could well have their own book someday after all!
We didn't want to spend much time on non-goblins in the book, and that included hobgoblins and bugbears.
Aw. :(
They could well have their own book someday after all!
I hope this becomes true!
Woohoo!! I too would love a Kobold book. Stupid Green gobbies get one!I love this book and I would like a Kobold book too.I just hope they do a Kobolds of Golarion next. ;)+1! As the saying seems to go.
Rather funny situation... I came on to ask if anyone else thought it would be great to see a Kobolds of Golarion. I hope Paizo Publishing considers the concept in the near future! And if they have considered it, I hope that they get enough info to deem it profitable to produce!
As it is, I am working with the D&D 3.5 interpretation of Kobolds in the "Races of the Dragon" book. It is insightful, but I wouldn't mind reading about Golarion's Kobolds, and perhaps get some unique feats and traits for the reptilian humaniods!
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Chief Technical Officer
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...I wouldn't mind reading about Golarion's Kobolds...
Have you checked out Classic Monsters Revisited, Crown of the Kobold King and Revenge of the Kobold King? (They're all written for 3.5, but it sounds like you know how to deal with that.)
...I wouldn't mind reading about Golarion's Kobolds...Have you checked out Classic Monsters Revisited, Crown of the Kobold King and Revenge of the Kobold King? (They're all written for 3.5, but it sounds like you know how to deal with that.)
Thanks for the info. I will track those down now.
...I wouldn't mind reading about Golarion's Kobolds...Have you checked out Classic Monsters Revisited, Crown of the Kobold King and Revenge of the Kobold King? (They're all written for 3.5, but it sounds like you know how to deal with that.)
So I found the Classic Monsters Revisited, and it pretty much had the same kind of info that was on Races of Dragon. Though I am wondering about some continuity.
In the CMR, it states that kobolds commonly keep homing bats for communication, and dire weasels and boars as mounts and beasts of burden. However, in the Bestiary, under organization, it states that kobolds keep 5-16 dire rats within a tribe, yet do not identify either the bat nor the dire weasel or boar as being a common sighting in such tribes. Is the Paizo Staff cognizant of this?
I am also wondering what the rats would be kept for, since the bats, weasels, and boars all have their uses explained, and rats can be dangerous due to harboring diseases (a rather risky move for creatures that take -2 to Con to begin with).
Getting rather off topic from the Goblins of Golarion, but I am assuming that this is not entirely a bad thing. Thanks for the time and info!
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A kobold companion would be very cool however:)
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Chief Technical Officer
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So I found the Classic Monsters Revisited, and it pretty much had the same kind of info that was on Races of Dragon. Though I am wondering about some continuity.
Keep in mind that the Bestiary is designed for use in any campaign setting, while Classic Monsters is designed for the Pathfinder Campaign Setting. So generally, I'd say that if you're using our setting, go with the info in Classic Monsters.