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Organized Play Member. 201 posts (204 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 alias.


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As far as I can tell there's nothing that prevents it. It would be rather odd to me if you have spells that have natural cast time greater than one round but can't meta-magic across multiple rounds. It would also create an issue when casting out-of-combat and therefore not even counting in rounds.

Xenocrat wrote:
You have to do it all in one round. If no one provides the rules citation before tomorrow I’ll look it up.

Please do because I can't find anything that says that.

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Castilliano wrote:
But off-turn actions aren't tied to MAP, and it's explicitly stated (though I forget where at the moment).

Page 446: "The multiple attack penalty applies only during your turn, so you don’t have to keep track of it if you can perform an Attack of Opportunity or a similar reaction that lets you make a Strike on someone else’s turn."

Yeah, it's odd that it's not specified like it was in the playtest. I'm going to tentatively assume it's an error.

Ron Lundeen wrote:

Not impossible. I'll avoid spoilers, but the sidebar on page 6 of the first adventure describes how, generally, the PCs don't have familiars or animal companions. HOWEVER, there are certain exceptions, including a witch's familiar and a shaman's spirit animal. A GM that wants to broaden that exception can do so, but we wanted to set out the expectation in the player's guide. In hindsight, I should have added something about "this doesn't mean you shouldn't play witches and shamans, we've got you covered there."

Perfect that's what I was hoping for, but yeah that probably should have been in the player's guide.

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So with you losing access to your familiars for the entire first book, what is a witch/shaman supposed to do? Not having a "companion" certainly hurts other classes but you need the familiar to regain spells. Is there anything in the book that solves this issue or is it just nearly impossible to play a witch/shaman for the first book?


James Jacobs wrote:
Even then, it's a tight squeeze, and it's looking like unless I artificially inflate XP awards in the last adventure that PCs won't hit 20th level until the very end, just in time for the final encounter.

That's very unfortunate. I'd really like to, for once, actually play a while at level 20, not just for the final boss fight. Though I suppose it would be easy enough to keep the PCs one level above the recommended and just toss an advanced template or two on everything.

Dragonborn3 wrote:
There was a fix?

The first errata is up, check the blog post

Multiclassing is now archetypes/feats that you take in place of your class feats, look at page 279

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Am I reading this right? I need to spend a resonance point every time I open/close the bag? p382

Captain Morgan wrote:

Cavalier (Mounts shouldn't be class locked, and the cavalier mechanics are distinct but maybe not enough to carry a whole class.)

Actually this reminds me, do we have any info on how mounts/animal companions are gonna work?

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The only issue I have with the Gray Maiden prestige archetype is that it's the only one in the book. In a playtest you should include stuff that's useful and open to as many characters as possible. The pirate archetype is the same, it's way too specific to be in an opening playtest.

Is this a PbP or using a VTT and voice? If so what day/time would it be? I've got a mesmerist and shadowdancer character that might fit in.

Throne wrote:
The FAQ for shifter's edge is up.

Alright! One fix down, only dozens more to go! Paizo should really just give a handful of volunteers outside the company a preview copy so they can catch the errors a paid employee missed.

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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

2. Clearly, Paizo did. There are several blog posts detailing that very exact phrase. As to whether players wanted it or not, this thread, and several others, are proof of whatever that answer really is.

Got any actual links or are you just gonna keep saying that. Also something being "entry-level" doesn't mean it has to be an objectively bad class.

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On the subject of art, I do remember one in the Witch section that looks like they put a piece of clip-art water underneath to make him look like he's walking on water. It's especially jarring considering how incredible the Season Witch art is.

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Might as well link some of Painful Buggers posts: One, Two, Three.

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

I don't take number of reprints into account when assessing value. Since I don't exhaustively collect softcovers, reprints are useful to me as a place of collected themed feats.

For hardcore collectors I understand why it might be an issue, but soft-cover feats don't end up in the PRD, so they are far less useful.

True, I was just listing it as another data point. Also if you want the soft-cover materials without have to sort through the 3p stuff on the pfsrd you can always use Archives of Nethys.

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graystone wrote:
Now if someone bought the book for the sole reason that it had a big bear, I'd expect a higher star rating than someone looking for a shifter, master of shapeshifting, and not finding it...

You should look at one of the recent reviews.

Alright then, more non-shifter stuff to discuss, feats! Note that this is obviously just my opinion but I tried to be as objective as possible. Also I'll assume I can't post the names of every feat yet, so you get to make do with the first letters of each word.

---Feats---110 total
Will Never Be Taken/NPC Feats(53): AA, AC, AD, AA, BH, BP, CT, CC, CT, DD, EGM, EC, EE, EAF, EA, FT, FM, F, FS, GBH, GWS, GSS, HTF, HW, IC, IBH, INPH, IWS, IA, JP, JS, LotL, M, NPA, NPH, NF, OEO, OwtL, PN, RR, RS, SotL, SS, S, TT, TL, TH, WS, WS, WS, W, WC, WW

Might Be Taken By Specialists/Campaign Dependant(26): AC, AS, BBR, BD, CA, CP, CMP, DT, DD, E-E, ES, FI, F-G, M, OotS, TotH, VS, VC, VoB, WC, WGC, WGH, WV, W, WM, WR

Useful in General(16): EM, EM, EWS, EH, FP, FC, GHB, GSA, IHB, ISA, MS, NSH, SR, TD, TI, TM

Gonna Get the Nerfbat(1): Shifter's Edge

Good Style Feats(6): BS->S->I, CWS->B->F

Bad Style Feats(6): IMS->P->A, WS->T->S

Nonfunctional/Redundant(2): AF, NW

So in my opinion 55% of the feats in the book won't ever be used, not a great number.

Also here are the reprinted feats: Ambush Awareness, Aquatic Combatant, Aquatic Spell, Brance Pounce, Clinging Climber, Desert Dweller, Earth Magic, Extended Animal Focus, Fey Performance, Forbane Magic, Group Share Spells, Harder They Fall, Jaguar Pounce, One Eye Open, Out of the Sun, River Raider, Scion of the Land, Tribal Hunter, Verdant Spell, Waterway Caster, Witchbreaker, Wolf Savage, Wolf Style, Wolf Trip. Note that these feats are included in the above breakdown.

24 in total, which means 21% of the feats in the book are reprints....

QuidEst wrote:
WatersLethe wrote:
Can we get more info on those ranged plant companions? What sort of attack do they get, and how does their damage potential stack up to other options?
Companion, singular. The sniper cactus can fire needles, which is pretty cool. It's not the best ranged attack out there, but they get a melee attack too.

There's also the Corpse-Eater Fungus that has a ranged touch attack that does acid damage. As far as damage goes, 1d6->1d8 for the acid and 1d8->2d6 for the Sniper Cactus' piercing thorn.

shaventalz wrote:
Are the archetypes written in a way that is incompatible with this, or that implies a different team chose a different "fix"?

The Charger AC archetype isn't actually in the book for some reason. The other three from the Animal Archive are, but were reprinted unchanged so they still list stuff replacing "share spells".

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Alright since it seems we're not allowed to talk about the Shifter anymore, I'll talk about animal companions:

Grizzly Bear
Positive: Yay we finally got a large size bear!
Negative: Since it only gets a +4 to Str upon hitting large size(21 total), it ends up with a lower Str score than a Cow(22) or Hunting Cactus(22).... and the same Str score as a Giant Frilled Lizard(21)

And because Cats must always be the best, the Saber-Toothed Cat ends up with a Str score of 23.....

We do finally get animal companions with damaging ranged attacks, the Corpse-Eater Fungus, and Sniper Cactus.

Oh also we finally get official clarification of the issue with the Animal Companion Archetypes that replace Share Spells on classes that don't get them, like the Cavalier and Samurai. Sadly they chose not to go with this unoffical clarification by the writer and instead decided to nerf the two classes into giving up the ability to start with Light Armor Proficiency on their AC and their ability to ignore the armor check penalty when riding them. To add insult to injure only 3 out of the 16 archetypes in the book don't give up the Share Spells ability. Also ACs with more than one natural attack and only primary natural attacks can't take an archetype that trades out Multiattack for some reason. Was all this really necessary?

Any chance this can be added to the CRB entry on the next FAQ update and preferably to the errata for the book?

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Hrm I don't really want to put out too much, but the base form:

  • Has no magic item slots
  • Cannot benefit from armor
  • Cannot cast spells
  • Cannot hold objects
  • Cannot speak
  • Cannot use any magic item that requires activation, is held or is worn

So yeah.....

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technarken wrote:
The archetypes (both of Shifter and everything else) sound like they'll easily salvage the book if the base Shifter is a redundant mess, so I look forward to forming a final opinion in the next __ days.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the archetypes in the book aren't great, there are a handful of good ones though. There's a lot of reprinted content too, which seems to be a trend in recent books. It does however have !duct tape and !fanny packs, also magic trees that are pretty neat. Some of the feats are alright, and the "Mastering the Wild" section is probably the best part of the book since it contains similar stuff as Ultimate Intrigue but nature.

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I've got to agree with Painful Bugger, this class is a real disappointment. Even if you ignore spells, the Druid class is better at shifting than the Shifter. To make matters worse the archetype I was looking forward to most, the Oozemorph is basically unplayable at low levels, you can only maintain humanoid form for 1/hour per level a number of times per day equal to 1/2 your level. That means that at 1st level you can be in humanoid form for 1 hour a day. Sounds bad, but it gets worse, when in ooze form, in addition to other restrictions, you can't hold items. So I hope the rest of the party is cool with carrying your stuff.

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I think you guys are severely underestimating the use of even a lv1 Mystic Cure, likely forgetting about this line:

"On the other hand, if this isn’t enough to restore all the target’s Hit Points, you can transfer any number of your own Hit Points to the target, healing the target that amount"

The Identify spell has a bit of a problem since it gives a +10 to skill checks to identify passwords, but there is no skill check to do that.

Toloriel wrote:

How do you get one individually?

Page 218:

"Of course, there’s a vast array of technological devices available in most settlements—well beyond the number that could possibly be presented in any real-world book. In general, any minor piece of equipment with a real-world equivalent (alarm clock, camera, digital keys for vehicles you own, timer, watch, and so on) can be purchased with GM approval, costs 5 credits and has light bulk."

Euan wrote:

Would it be keen if my drone just floated there without an action? Sure! But I think that's more power than they intended the drone to have.

This is game balance at play I think, and it seems (so far in my limited experience) to work well.

The thing is that this problem only effects the Hover Drone. The other ones are free to attack while you full attack or vise-versa, so it's not an issue of game balance.

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Xenocrat wrote:
One issue I have found is that a level 20 operative with two exploits and max cyber enhancement can move 110' per move action over difficult terrain. That's not fast enough.

You're forgetting the "Fleet" feat for another +10 also if the Space Goblin stats from First Contact are correct, that's another +5.

  • p177 Plasma Cannons have the "Burn" critical hit effect but are explode weapons that can't crit. Thanks to Ithnaar for pointing this out here.

  • RAW, no they can't: " Class features and items affect crew actions only if specifically noted in the class feature or item." page 322. That said I think that's real dumb and I'd let them.

    Yes it's a mistake, the example builds are full of them. Others

    There is a thread for this stuff HERE. I really wish they'd fix the search function already.

    That or basic melee weapons, from page 74: "Your drone is proficient in your choice of small arms or basic melee weapons, and it gains specialization in that weapon type once you reach 3rd level"

    RAW yes, as the level 3 class features give you the feats themselves.

    It was clarified in the FAQ that they can use normal sized weapons.

    The Environment section has some issues with Perception:

    Text from pages 397-398:

    Stealth and Detection in a Forest: "in a Forest makes Perception checks that rely on sound more difficult, increasing the DC of the check by 2 (not 1) per 10 feet"

    Stealth and Detection in Hills and Mountains: "The DCs of Perception checks that rely on sound increase by 1 per 20 feet between listener and source, not 1 per 10 feet."

    Stealth and Detection in Urban Terrain: "In addition, settlements are often noisy, making Perception checks that rely on sound more difficult; this increases the DC of any such checks by 2 per 10 feet."

  • However there is no rule stating a increase of visual or audio Perception DCs for distance to begin with.

  • Anyone else wanna chime in/faq this?

    Pretty cool, but it doesn't seem to be swapping to Dex to-hit when using an operative weapon.

    Hithesius wrote:
    This could be a very useful spreadsheet, but it doesn't appear to include the BP costs for adding or upgrading weapon mounts. They're on p. 305, under "Upgrading Systems."

    It does, it just automatically adds it into the cost of the weapon that gets slotted in. PIC

    huscarl105 wrote:

    I think it comes from the Bonus on the computer table (pg 297). I.e a Mk2 Trinode gives a +2 bonus to up to 3 starship combat checks per round.

    By my reading (and re-reading) the Modifier on the sensor (+2 for basic short range), (pg 301) is added only to the Scan and Target System Science Officer Action.

    Nope, check out the ship statblocks, like the "Norikama Dropship" on page 315. It has, "Modifiers: +3 any two checks per round, +2 Computers, –1 Piloting" and in it's statblock it has "mk 3 duonode computer"(+3 to two checks), "basic long-range sensors"(+2 to computer checks), and M12 thrusters(-1 to piloting checks). The reason it's not "to science officer actions" is so the captain would get it when trying to "encourage" the science officers action. I agree it could be clearer though.

    Nickela wrote:

    Try to break it now. Let me know what else I need to fix.

    If you want. :P

  • The maneuverability disappears on the statblock and ship sheet if the "turn" rating goes above 4. (Like a Dreadnought with Mk9+ armor)
  • The Mk9-10 mono- and duonode computers aren't showing up in the drop down list
  • Tiny size ships(Racer, Interceptor, and Fighter) are letting you pick a quality level of crew quarters, but according to page 298 tiny size ships don't have them.
  • If you have 4 of the same weapon in the same arc and you link the top two then try to link the bottom two, the top damage value will disappears. PIC In general having 4 of the same weapon causes issues with the weapon output on the statblock and ship sheet. PIC

    That's all for now.

  • 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

    Do lasers pass through armor mod force fields? The laser section says they're blocked by "Barriers of energy" which sounds like a force field to me, but int the section on force fields it says that they don't block laser beams. And if they do, does the force field still take damage as they pass through like they do to "transparent physical barriers"?

    Lasers p184:
    "Laser weapons emit highly focused beams of light that deal fire damage. These beams can pass through glass and other transparent physical barriers, dealing damage to such barriers as they pass through. Barriers of energy or magical force block lasers.
    Force Fields p206:
    The force field blocks solids and liquids but not gases or light (including laser beams).

    And the big question is if lasers do bypass force shields, would then starship lasers pass through (and possibly still damage) a starships shields?


    It comes from the quality of the sensors.

    Not that I can see, it's likely just future-proofing

    Nickela wrote:
    So what do you guys think I should do for this? If your turn goes up, does that change the name of your maneuverability?

    Honestly I have no idea....

    Nickela wrote:
    Or maybe... should I note it by saying perfect (turn 0 + 2 from armor)?

    That how I would do it for now.

    Very cool, but I found a few things:

  • The sheet won't let you link array weapons
  • The bonus to piloting checks from "maneuverability" and "thruster speed" are being added to the ships AC and TL in the "pilot bonus" spot.
  • The "Misc Mods" box isn't being added into the AC/TL calculation.
  • Any modifiers to "turn", like from the heavier armor, isn't being adjusted.
  • The "critical threshold" isn't being modified when the ship's HP changes do to higher tiers
  • If you link two weapons that have a "x10" damage it won't show up once they're linked

  • Correct, such things no longer exist.

    Direct link to the FAQ entry

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