Creative Director
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... and indeed whether or not we MAKE a Bestiary 3... we're not yet gonna say.Oh, common.
The updated rules for chained spirits have to go somewhere. :)
Honestly... I'm not sure the chained spirit will EVER get reprinted out of AP 11. It's so fundamentally tied to that dungeon, after all, that presenting it in a way that allows it to be used anywhere without having the luxury of a lair to detail might ruin the monster.
As far as I'm concerned, Wizards can keep the beholders, whom I find just as goofy as flumphs but not as friendly, I'd rather use flumphs in my campaign than a beholder. Thank you Mr. Daigle for your article on them in Misfit Monsters Redeemed. I would much rather have mind flayers but I'm a big Lovecraft fan. Although there was an amalgamation of sorts of the two in one of bestiaries in the Council of Thieves AP.
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The list was missing a couple of the monsters from the poster when I looked at it but almost all of them are there.So has there been a list with all the beasts in the Bestiary?Scroll down from here
Sorry I missed a few, care to add them? :)
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Sorry I missed a few, care to add them? :)The list was missing a couple of the monsters from the poster when I looked at it but almost all of them are there.So has there been a list with all the beasts in the Bestiary?Scroll down from here
I'm just glad you were willing to take the time to post them, I was dying to see the list. Thanks.
Here's the two I saw that weren't on the list. I tried to get the right spelling:
Astraldaemon
Auramorax.
If I remember correctly, the aruamorox is a mammal with many limbs that has some metallic gold features and likes gold.
If it's an update of the 1st Ed MM2 monster, I think the correct spelling is Aurumvorax.
If it's an update of the 1st Ed MM2 monster, I think the correct spelling is Aurumvorax.
You are correct spelling-wise.
And the Aurumvorax originally appeared in the 1st Ed classic module S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.
So did the vegepygmy, froghemoth and wolf-in-sheep's-clothing, among other lethal flora and fauna.
(Also, the creature's name literally means "eater of gold" in Latin, IIRC.)
Cheers, JohnH / Wanda
Honestly... I'm not sure the chained spirit will EVER get reprinted out of AP 11. It's so fundamentally tied to that dungeon, after all, that presenting it in a way that allows it to be used anywhere without having the luxury of a lair to detail might ruin the monster.
That's certainly a legitimate concern. But I disagree.
The chained spirit merely needs to be presented in a similar fashion to the presentation that the ghost enjoyed in the Bestiary.
Just as the a point was made in the ghost entry that, unlike most monsters, the ghost benefits from a more detailed history and motive(s), so the chained spirit should benefit from detailed surroundings and anchors.
Of course, the work to update the rules of the creature can easily be done along side the creation of it's story and victims. But that's not the point. Any monster I like I can update.
I honestly feel that this monster is one of the more imaginative and inspired that has been presented in any of the AP's. It is the consummate bound spirit. Many a haunted castle, dungeon and mansion have been crying out for this anchored, haunting force.
I firmly believe that the chained spirit deserves a larger audience and the opportunity to haunt future castles (and players) in many more stories to come.
(BTW, who was responsible for this one? I suspect Mr. Greg Vaughan himself, as Mithrodar was so central to the overall story. But I don't actually know and I would love to give out a proper applause.)
Speaking of Skeletons of Scarwall, about that demilich...
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Can't wait to get this book - the list of creatures looks great!
One creature I WAS kinda sad to see did not make the cut is the Wemic. I don't know why, but I really like them a lot!
Oh well, there's always Bestiary III !!! :)
I am pretty sure that the Wemic is WotC's intellectual property. I cannot find any other references, such as from mythology, with a quick Google search. However, if Paizo wanted to call it a sagittary, that has mythic origins.
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If it's an update of the 1st Ed MM2 monster, I think the correct spelling is Aurumvorax.You are correct spelling-wise.
And the Aurumvorax originally appeared in the 1st Ed classic module S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.
So did the vegepygmy, froghemoth and wolf-in-sheep's-clothing, among other lethal flora and fauna.
I wonder if we'll every see the Thorny, the vegypygmy’s hunting dog? Its open content, yet was omitted in the Bestiary write up for the pygmy.
Who knows, maybe they'll update the stats if Pazio ever decides to put out a module with a downed spaceship.......
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I got my "Soon to be shipping" notice that they will be shipping this sometime next week :) I can hardly wait now. Hopefully soon I will be getting the "Shipped" notice so I actually have the PDF of this book then! :)
I am excited. Now I just have to wait for Hero Labs to release this for Hero Labs Pathfinder!! :)
Man my money goes fast :(
I got my "Soon to be shipping" notice that they will be shipping this sometime next week :) I can hardly wait now.
I just got mine too.... I'm so excited I can hardly contain myself!!!!
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I got mine too. Another thing that makes me happy is I live so close to Paizo I usually get my package the day after I get my PDF. Life is good...
I have to say, I have gotten very excited about this book and Ultimate Magic. I am not as excited for the combat book (at least not presently - who knows by the time it comes out).
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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I wonder if we'll every see the Thorny, the vegypygmy’s hunting dog? Its open content, yet was omitted in the Bestiary write up for the pygmy.
Who knows, maybe they'll update the stats if Pazio ever decides to put out a module with a downed spaceship.......
I can't say if they made it into the final product, but I included quick rules for making thornies in my turnover for Ilvarandin, in Lost Cities of Golarion. So there's a chance, but it's also a detail that might not have made it all the way to print.
Arrrrrgh! My Wachovia account changed to Wells Fargo and I forgot to update the information! :p *crossed fingers to shipping soon after fixing*
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Director of Brand Strategy
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I can't say if they made it into the final product, but I included quick rules for making thornies in my turnover for Ilvarandin, in Lost Cities of Golarion. So there's a chance, but it's also a detail that might not have made it all the way to print.
Sadly, I think the thorny was cut for space, but I may be remembering incorrectly.
Well, for the home audience, I recall the quick recipe being (1) turn riding dog to plant (2) add level-appropriate barbed devil defense. :)
I love monster stats. So please, continue!
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I got my "Soon to be shipping" notice that they will be shipping this sometime next week :) I can hardly wait now.I just got mine too.... I'm so excited I can hardly contain myself!!!!
Likewise, and I just bought Psionics Unleashed bundle, if I can get both PDFs next week, I'll have plenty of material to read while working.
I got a notice of problems with the credit card that I will need to fix soon. but hopefully I will have this and AP #40 shipped to me soon.
Bam said the lady
What I want to know, and I don't plan on digging through 800+ posts to find out, is if anyone has asked if the Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally spells will be updated to contain the monsters from this book?
The bonus beastiary updates Summon Monster VI to include the Shadow Mastiff so I think it would be a nice trend to continue. If this idea somehow slipped under the radar, perhaps you could do another bonus beastiary to cover it?
P.S. I love mindflayers too, any chance you could procure permission to stat them up and put them online as a third party monster or in a module?
What I want to know, and I don't plan on digging through 800+ posts to find out, is if anyone has asked if the Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally spells will be updated to contain the monsters from this book?
The bonus beastiary updates Summon Monster VI to include the Shadow Mastiff so I think it would be a nice trend to continue. If this idea somehow slipped under the radar, perhaps you could do another bonus beastiary to cover it?
P.S. I love mindflayers too, any chance you could procure permission to stat them up and put them online as a third party monster or in a module?
Yes it has been asked. No they won't be expanding them for th new monsters, but feel free to do it for your campaign. (the summarized answer).
No chance really at all that we will see a mind flayer as WotC didn't open source them and would need to before they can appear in anything.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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So in other words, you don't want to work, you want someone to repeat themselves? ;-)
Here's James' answer on the issue of summons.
And I don't expect them to ask anyone for closed content anytime soon. (Deep Crow and Coeurl are exceptions.)
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Wow, just noticed - looks like Daemons are finally going to make a full and complete comeback to the #1 rpg.
Eleven, count'em - 11 daemons!
Daemons
Cacodaemon
Ceustodaemon
Derghodaemon
Hydrodaemon
Leukodaemon
Meladaemon
Olethrodaemon
Piscodaemon
Purrodaemon
Thanadaemon
I hope they run through a good CR range.
Added bonus:
Mythos/Mythos related creatures
Gug
Hound of Tindalos
Leng Spider
Serpentfolk
Shantak
Worm That Walks
Good stuff - would still like to see an update of the Shoggoth but maybe it'll end up popping its head/arms/eyes/tendrils/mouths out in a future AP.
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Good stuff - would still like to see an update of the Shoggoth but maybe it'll end up popping its head/arms/eyes/tendrils/mouths out in a future AP.
Umm... the shoggoth is in the first Bestiary already. Page 249. CR 19. Handle with care.
And the daemons run from CR 2 to CR 20.
LOL - Sorry, I looked it up in the wiki and it only referenced J3. I knew I seen it somewhere besides the Crucible of Chaos!
Nice range on the Daemon critters.
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Creative Director
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The bonus beastiary updates Summon Monster VI to include the Shadow Mastiff so I think it would be a nice trend to continue. If this idea somehow slipped under the radar, perhaps you could do another bonus beastiary to cover it?
The idea didn't slip under the radar at all... it got taken out behind the barn and shot.
We built the Bonus Bestiary before the core rules OR the Bestiary itself were finished; we had to, since the Bonus Bestiary came out about 3 months or so before the Core Rules. We had a relatively solid idea about how the game would work at that point, but we were still nailing down a few tiny bits. One of those was how the summon monster/summon nature's ally spells worked.
In the end, we decided that these spells more or less needed to be self-contained. That mean that they had lists that referenced the main Bestiary and didn't go beyond that. This is mostly a balance issue (too many monsters on the list allow for too much specialization per encounter), but also a game-play issue (too many monsters on the list causes option paralysis and makes the simple choice of choosing a summoned monster a tough one) and a public relations issue (we try not to build parts of the game to be too dependent on non-core products).
At some point in the future, we may build a way to expand those spell's lists; that won't happen in the Bestiary line of books, though, and is unlikely to happen in Ultimate Magic. The summon monster spells work fine as they are, and the're kinda "fragile" so we don't want to stack much more onto them.
So, to get back to the original question... while we added the "summoning shadow mastiffs" to their entry in the Bonus Bestiary, that's something we decided was NOT a good idea at some point between the Bonus Bestiary going to print and the Bestiary going to print. Thus, no "summoning this monster" entries in other Bestiaries. Note that had we carried on with this extra bit, we would have had to add that paragraph to EVERY appropriate summonable monster, which in a heck of a lot of cases would have destroyed that monster's flavor text. Especially for a few of the ones that are really tight on space. That would have been a terrible move.
What is the 5th inevitable?
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At some point in the future, we may build a way to expand those spell's lists; that won't happen in the Bestiary line of books, though, and is unlikely to happen in Ultimate Magic. The summon monster spells work fine as they are, and the're kinda "fragile" so we don't want to stack much more onto them.
A humble suggestion here but Maybe creating a new summon spell to cover these ones instead of trying to add them to current summon monster lists? (call it summon outsider or something to that affect and make it lvl's 1 to 9 like the current summons lists)
What is the 5th inevitable?The inevitable who hunts down people who copy a long post and add a sentence at the end... twice.
;-)
Edit: You caught and edited it, ruining my joke :P
Yep I hit the wrong button.
The first thing that comes to my mind is a feat ... "Exotic Summoner" or some such, that allows you to choose a nonstandard critter (that the GM will allow) of CR "x" or lower when you cast a summon spell. If balance is a worry, stipulate that nonstandard critters can't be augmented or otherwise altered in the summoning.
-The Gneech
I can almost see one such series: Summon Mythos Beast. ;)
The first thing that comes to my mind is a feat ... "Exotic Summoner" or some such, that allows you to choose a nonstandard critter (that the GM will allow) of CR "x" or lower when you cast a summon spell. If balance is a worry, stipulate that nonstandard critters can't be augmented or otherwise altered in the summoning.
-The Gneech
Or just have a Summoner get creative?
Eleven, count'em - 11 daemons!Astraldaemon
Cacodaemon
Ceustodaemon
Derghodaemon
Hydrodaemon
Leukodaemon
Meladaemon
Olethrodaemon
Piscodaemon
Purrodaemon
Thanadaemon
Of these eleven, four of them (caco-, hydro-, dergho-, and pisco-) are courtesy of the Tome of Horrors. The piscodaemon and derghodaemon got roles in the Kingmaker AP. The cacodaemon, though, looks like it's gone in a completely different direction from the one in the Tome of Horrors (that one was humanoid and burly, the Bestiary II one looks more like a floating head straight out of Doom). Four of them (leuko-, mela-, purro-, thana-) are the deacons of the Horsemen, first mentioned in the Campaign Setting. Two of these have had stats already, the leuko- and the mela-. I very much hope the meladaemon got a serious work-over, as its powers had nothing to do with its famine flavor. The astradaemon was first seen in The Great Beyond, although it's an import from Todd Stewart's home game--his Planescape story-hour on ENWorld featured them in a prominent role, back when they were yugoloths.
That leaves the ceustodaemon and olethrodaemon the only two entirely original to Bestiary II. If I had to guess, I'd say one of them was the CR 2, making either the cacodaemon, thanadaemon or the other of these two the CR 20.
Mythos/Mythos related creaturesDenizen of Leng
Gug
Hound of Tindalos
Leng Spider
Serpentfolk
Shantak
Worm That Walks
Most of these are reprints. The Denizens of Leng and Hound of Tindalos were in Rise of the Runelords, gugs in Curse of the Crimson Throne. Serpentfolk were introduced in Into the Darklands and the Worm that Walks is an escapee from the 3.0 Epic Level Handbook (although, it seems, rebalanced for a wider level range). The shantak and Leng spider are new. I wonder if these Leng spiders are going to be intelligent? And if so, how much will they be inspired by China Mieville's Weaver? In Lovecraft, we don't learn anything about Leng spiders except that they exist and are big.
The book'll be out in a few weeks. The 5th inevitable will be revealed then.
In fact, I'd say that it's inevitable that the 5th one will be revealed....
Thanks folks, I'll be here all week. ;)
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Creative Director
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Of these eleven, four of them (caco-, hydro-, dergho-, and pisco-) are courtesy of the Tome of Horrors.
More than that are courtesy of the Tome of Hororrs, but at least one of them had a name change, and at least one of them (the cacodaemon) is an entirely new creature.
The cacodaemon, though, looks like it's gone in a completely different direction from the one in the Tome of Horrors (that one was humanoid and burly, the Bestiary II one looks more like a floating head straight out of Doom).
Yup; the Pathfinder version of the cacodaemon is entirely new and, aside from having the same name (which is from mythology, and so we were able to go our own route with it to fit our needs), and aside from being a daemon, has really no ties to the Tome of Horrors version.
I very much hope the meladaemon got a serious work-over, as its powers had nothing to do with its famine flavor.
Yup; it now has powers that fit its role as a minion of famine.
That leaves the ceustodaemon and olethrodaemon the only two entirely original to Bestiary II.
Nope; the ceustodaemon is actually the guardian daemon. We just got tired of it being in a weird ghetto and listed under "G" for Guardian Daemon (something it's been saddled with since 1st edition); it now has an on-model flavor name and is in the daemon section of the book. The daemons who are "entirely new" to this book would be the cacodaemon, the olethrodaemon, and the purrodaemon—but my definition of "entirely new" is "their stats are appearing in print for the first time in any edition of the game in this book." And the ones that we picked up, both from the Tome of Horrors and our own products, are pretty heavily revised. In the end, though, the goal here was NOT to come up with new daemons, but to gather for the first time in Pathifnder's history all of the daemons into one place so that we'll have a "ground zero" to work from in the future for developing honest-to-goodness new daemons.
I wonder if these Leng spiders are going to be intelligent? And if so, how much will they be inspired by China Mieville's Weaver?
Nope; they're inspired 100% from Lovecraft, pretty much. Lovecraft doesn't say MUCH about them, apart from them being big and at war with the other denizens of Leng, though... and in order to war, you need to be intelligent, really, so from there it was all a matter of designing the Leng spider so that it'd be a cool foe for PCs to fight while staying true to Lovecraft's few words about them. I designed the stats for the Leng spider, and I've not read that much China Mieville (certainly not anything about his weaver) yet (and yes, I know that's a character flaw—I'm working on fixing it and own copies of most of his books so it's just a matter of time).
What is the 5th inevitable?The book'll be out in a few weeks. The 5th inevitable will be revealed then.
James, that wasn't any fun I was looking for you to kind of lord your knowledge over us.:) I can wait until next week to find out.
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Of these eleven, four of them (caco-, hydro-, dergho-, and pisco-) are courtesy of the Tome of Horrors. The piscodaemon and derghodaemon got roles in the Kingmaker AP. The cacodaemon, though, looks like it's gone in a completely different direction from the one in the Tome of Horrors (that one was humanoid and burly, the Bestiary II one looks more like a floating head straight out of Doom). Four of them (leuko-, mela-, purro-, thana-) are the deacons of the Horsemen, first mentioned in the Campaign Setting. Two of these have had stats already, the leuko- and the mela-. I very much hope the meladaemon got a serious work-over, as its powers had nothing to do with its famine flavor. The astradaemon was first seen in The Great Beyond, although it's an import from Todd Stewart's home game--his Planescape story-hour on ENWorld featured them in a prominent role, back when they were yugoloths.
I have the ToH so yeah, I know they are reprints - it's just good to see them in their own collection, and to get a specific "Daemon" catagory introduced to PFRPG. The Cacodaemon sphere is probably based off the Doom series cacodemon. A version of the Worm also appears in the Kingmaker series.
Getting updated stats in one collection is never a bad thing - I just wish they would have gone up to LoF since that was their last 3.5 AP series.
More than that are courtesy of the Tome of Horrors, but at least one of them had a name change, and at least one of them (the cacodaemon) is an entirely new creature.
So does that mean that the thanadaemon is the artist formerly known as the charonadaemon (and marrenoloth in Planescape)?
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So does that mean that the thanadaemon is the artist formerly known as the charonadaemon (and marrenoloth in Planescape)?
More than that are courtesy of the Tome of Horrors, but at least one of them had a name change, and at least one of them (the cacodaemon) is an entirely new creature.
Thana = Thanatos - so I would guess its a sub for Charonadaemon.
Guess of course
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Creative Director
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So does that mean that the thanadaemon is the artist formerly known as the charonadaemon (and marrenoloth in Planescape)?
More than that are courtesy of the Tome of Horrors, but at least one of them had a name change, and at least one of them (the cacodaemon) is an entirely new creature.
Yup.
Also means that the thanadaemon has a few of his own new powers as well.
The meladaemon (I think it was that one), seems very similiar to the arcanadaemon/arcanaloth. Did the meladaemon replace the arcanaloth? I do recall Todd saying the two were actually different, despite physical similiarities. I think he was the one that wrote up the meladaemon?
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Creative Director
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The meladaemon (I think it was that one), seems very similiar to the arcanadaemon/arcanaloth. Did the meladaemon replace the arcanaloth? I do recall Todd saying the two were actually different, despite physical similiarities. I think he was the one that wrote up the meladaemon?
The arcanaloth is not open content—it's very much owned lock, stock, and barrel by Wizards of the Coast. The meladaemon is not a "replacement" for it—they do very different things, despite the fact that they look somewhat similar. The meladaemon is something of a jackal humanoid, playing off the famine theme of that creature and the fact that a jackal is a scavenger who might do quite well in the onset of a famine since there's a lot of starved dead things to eat... at least for a while...
I very much hope the meladaemon got a serious work-over, as its powers had nothing to do with its famine flavor. The astradaemon was first seen in The Great Beyond, although it's an import from Todd Stewart's home game--his Planescape story-hour on ENWorld featured them in a prominent role, back when they were yugoloths.
Just curious, but which powers did you think fit, or didn't fit the meladaemon's theme?
I also approached the meladaemons (and their master) from a broader sense of famine, incorporating such things as spiritual wasting, parasitic wasting, and even the self-cannibalization of cancer within that rubric (the daemon lord of Famine himself plays off of that, and while I'm not sure if I've named him so in-game, I like to refer to him as the Lysogenic Prince, connecting him with the idea of the wasting effects of cancer and retroviruses). It's broader than starvation in the most classical way of the word. :)
That said, I'm happy with the Bestiary II meladaemon. Lost one ability which you'll see when the book comes out, but it's easy to say that was a unique thing for Couthewaile in BtVoS or something for higher stature meladaemons.