Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary 2 (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary 2 (OGL)
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Go beyond goblins with an army of fantasy's most fearsome foes! Bestiary 2 presents hundreds of different creatures for use in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. Within this collection of creatures you'll find undead dragons and mischievous gremlins, shrieking banshees and unstoppable titans, the infamous jabberwock, and so much more! Yet not all these monsters need to be foes, as new breeds of otherworldly guardians, living shadows, and vampires all might take up adventure's call. In addition, new rules for customizing and advancing monsters and an expanded glossary of creature abilities ensure that you'll be prepared to challenge your heroes wherever adventure takes them!

The Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 2 is the second indispensable volume of monsters for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and serves as a companion to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook and Pathfinder RPG Bestiary. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into the new millennium.

The 320-page Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 2 includes:

  • More than 300 different monsters
  • Creatures both new and familiar, drawing upon the best-known beasts of legend, literature, and Pathfinder RPG adventures
  • Challenges for any adventure and every level of play
  • Hosts of new templates and variants, including simple templates for on-the-fly creature customization
  • Numerous lists of monsters to aid in navigation, including lists by Challenge Rating, monster type, and habitat
  • New rules for creating and running high-level menaces
  • Expanded universal monster rules to simplify special attacks, defenses, and qualities
  • New familiars, animal companions, and other allies
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-268-5

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Last Updated - 7/16/2012

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My favorite book from Paizo.

5/5

This book so far has been my favorite purchase of ALL of my RPG books.
I don't know if I can explain the fervor I have for this book but I will try.

So first of all there is the cover, the ever feared Jabberwock(y) of Lewis Carroll legend. Having a tough SOB (CR23) on the cover is the best way to start things off I think. Lets me know im in for a ride with this book.

While the first Bestiary was the standard array of Monsters we have all come to know and love through years of them being reprinted for games the Bestiary 2 is where Paizo took off on its own with a whole slew of new monster and just general new ideas for monsters. A handful of new extraplanar monsters of various alignments were added such as The Aeons, Qlippoths and Daemons all have decently written history and offer a lot of inspiration for using them in games.

The two things I love best about this book are as follows.
One: New dragons, and not just more "coloured or metal" dragons, but a new type of dragon altogether: Primal Dragons. These bad boys have probably the best art in the whole book (magma, im looking at you) and they make for a nice change from the everyday.

Two: The art, while the art in Bestiary 1 is GOOD, its not near as sharp, crisp, and detailed as this book. The colours, the textures, the everything, all done very well. You will not be disappointed when looking through this book.


Great buy!

5/5

I really enjoyed the artwork and the monsters presented in this book, especially the Qlippoth! Must have for your pathfinder library!


Back to the Golden Age

5/5

Looking through the PDF of Bestiary 2, I find myself remembering the days in the 1980s when I'd sit in the back of the mall bookstore and leaf through the various gaming tomes I couldn't possibly buy all of.

Crystal Dragons, Aeons, and several others in this book remind of that golden era, when DMs had such a wide variety of unusual (and often new-age-y) creatures at their disposals, they couldn't possibly ever use them all.

Sure, some of the creatures are a little odd, but on the other hand, the vast variety will lead to some adventurer groups with a far different list of encountered monsters than the norm.

I personally can't wait to spring the Dullahan (aka Headless Horseman) and Animate Dream on my party!


Something does not add up...

3/5

Not as extensive as the first, yet the same price...

I do not mind the creatures in this book, but it does get less use than my other bestiary. However it still has the same problem as the first also. The use of generic rules for a creature type. For an actual hardcover book to be useful in a game (for creatures) you MUST be able to have all rules for the creature on the one page. The use of rules based on a type of creature that you need to leave the creatures page to reference is irritating and a waste of in game time.

Please fix this problem. I understand that constructs all have similarities but I need the rules on each constructs page to reference. Not have to skip to the end of the book to see if they have something relevant when they need it.


Cautiously recommended

4/5

I find some of the artwork choices dubious and some of the stat-blocks clearly don't hold up under close examination.
Also only about a third of the creature content is of current use/interest to me.

BUT, all that said, in a book this size at this price that third of content is the right side of value for money for me, and there's enough variety here in the creatures that I don't personally have much time for that I'm certain most of them will appeal to a fair portion of the audience amongst other readers. This is a follow-up bestiary - and like most such works it faces the challenge that most of the decent staples of fantasy have already been covered in an earlier work, inviting the editors to try and diversify to give everyone a bit of what they might want...

Warts and all this is a pretty spiffing book, and I would cautiously recommend it.
I give it a rating of four stars.


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Dark Archive

Gorbacz wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Word-Twisting Rumormonger wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Considering the game has like 5 different meanings for "level," I think our players can handle "ifrit" vs. "efreet," and so on.... ;)

I have my next headline, I think...

"Sean K Reynolds Gloats: Confusing Names Are A Good Thing!"

That's the gist of it, right? ;-)

You didn't know that the K in Sean's name stands for Konfusing ?
I thought it stood for Kiss, as in that's what he tries to do to all the girls. :)
Kisses are Konfusing, aren't they ? :)

I prefer the ones that make you weak in the knee's. :)

Edit: Hey you had post 1000 in that thread.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have a legal-ish question to the powers that be or homegrown OGL experts:

Bestiary 2 draws monsters from both the Tome of Horror series and Book of Fiends. However, when the ToH is invoked in the OGL at the end, it is every monster separately (making for a longest section 15 I've ever seen), but when BoF is invoked it's just the book without listing the individual critters. Why is it so ?

Dark Archive

If I had to guess by what I know of the ToH from my time on the Necro boards. That is because many of the monsters in ToH where not in the original OGL. But a special case for that book, which was OGL. If that makes sense. But I am just guessing. :)

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Card Game, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
stuart haffenden wrote:
My PDF copy doesn't have active links in the Table of Contents... will this be rectified soon?

My understanding is that Paizo have stopped doing them in their rulebooks- certainly the GMG and APG don't have them.

On the Tome of Horrors, the details (author of the monster, source of it) are sometimes different, that might be it.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Gorbacz wrote:

I have a legal-ish question to the powers that be or homegrown OGL experts:

Bestiary 2 draws monsters from both the Tome of Horror series and Book of Fiends. However, when the ToH is invoked in the OGL at the end, it is every monster separately (making for a longest section 15 I've ever seen), but when BoF is invoked it's just the book without listing the individual critters. Why is it so ?

Crediting each individual monster separately is a requirement of the Tome of Horrors OGL statement. (As far as I know, it's the only book that works like that.)

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Enlight_Bystand wrote:
stuart haffenden wrote:
My PDF copy doesn't have active links in the Table of Contents... will this be rectified soon?
My understanding is that Paizo have stopped doing them in their rulebooks- certainly the GMG and APG don't have them.

Correct... and hyperlinking the TOC wouldn't do anything that the existing bookmarks don't already do—and bookmarks can be omnipresent.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

I have a legal-ish question to the powers that be or homegrown OGL experts:

Bestiary 2 draws monsters from both the Tome of Horror series and Book of Fiends. However, when the ToH is invoked in the OGL at the end, it is every monster separately (making for a longest section 15 I've ever seen), but when BoF is invoked it's just the book without listing the individual critters. Why is it so ?

Crediting each individual monster separately is a requirement of the Tome of Horrors OGL statement. (As far as I know, it's the only book that works like that.)

Indeed, I've just checked the ToHRev. Weird !


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
hogarth wrote:
and Wyld Stallyns. :-)

Party on, dude!


James Jacobs wrote:
darth_borehd wrote:
Is there a TOC out yet?
Nope. Looking like that's not actually going to happen, with priorities and impending vacations using up all the time.

One can't grab a few PDF pages and post it up? Wouldn't that be quicker and easier? Not that I mind, I saw the list posted by the earlier poster, just curious about the process.

Grand Lodge

Dark_Mistress wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Word-Twisting Rumormonger wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Considering the game has like 5 different meanings for "level," I think our players can handle "ifrit" vs. "efreet," and so on.... ;)

I have my next headline, I think...

"Sean K Reynolds Gloats: Confusing Names Are A Good Thing!"

That's the gist of it, right? ;-)

You didn't know that the K in Sean's name stands for Konfusing ?
I thought it stood for Kiss, as in that's what he tries to do to all the girls. :)

Oh Sean does try and kiss all the girls and then he wakes up... He is a true lady's man though. Bald head and all. When I worked with him as a moderator and TSRO when he was the head of our group, man his sense of humor was way too funny :)

-TSRO_Kip or WizO_Kip :D

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

I don't think that's what the K stands for. Maybe someone should ask him at the next con he attends...

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Razz wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
darth_borehd wrote:
Is there a TOC out yet?
Nope. Looking like that's not actually going to happen, with priorities and impending vacations using up all the time.
One can't grab a few PDF pages and post it up? Wouldn't that be quicker and easier? Not that I mind, I saw the list posted by the earlier poster, just curious about the process.

I cannot, no. I lack the skill to make that PDF or to extract the pages from inDesign files (and even if I did, I don't have access to those programs on my computer), and I lack the skill or access to put those files up on the website. The people who DO have those skills are spread out over the art department (which is slammed right now trying to get the Inner Sea World Guide off to press by Monday/Tuesday, since if it doesn't go then, it won't go until 2011 for various reasons having to do with schedules and vacations and the like) and the web team (which has their hands full with a lot of other projects, many, I suspect, to do with holiday mayhem).

One of the benefits of Paizo being a relatively large company for this industry is that it lets us bring some GREAT production value to our products, and lets us put out a LOT of products. One of the downsides is that we're not really capable of making quick movements, and no one person at the company knows how to do everything.

Silver Crusade

Got it just a little while ago. Still digesting it, but did want to shout out...

What I like

Brownie art : OH GOD

Handmaiden Devil is awesomely weird. Kind of like Hell's answer to Heaven's Zoveri from Planescape. MY PLAYERS STAY OUT

Spoiler:
They are definitely going to get some use in Curse of the Crimson Throne now.

The Nightshade family and its new member. Yikes. I love the notion of them being undead outsiders as well.

The Dhampir. I can easily adjust it to account for half-dwarf/half-whatever else combinations. I'm really happy in general with how it's turned out. Love the detect undead ability. Paints them as potential undead hunters out of the box, as a nod towards their pop-culture representatives maybe?

PAGE 44 HOT HOT BEETLE ON HOUSE ACTION

Really glad to see the Attic Whisperer back.

The Brijidine Azata is awesome. Just the visual of lava-based celestials swinging swords of obsidian makes me happy.

I really love that Eternity-like design on the Pleroma. I'm still not sure how I feel about the Aeons as a whole, but I love that design.

Mongolian Death Worm FTW.

Grindylow is awesome. No shortage of sailor superstitions to be born out of that race.

Scylla and Charybdis. I'm happy with this whole package.

The Arbiter Inevitable design brought back a LOT of pleasant memories. Those guys will always have a place in my cosmology.

The Qlippoth art. I haven't had a chance to sit down and read through them yet, but damn. They certainly look the part they've been said to play.

Shining Child. I love how if it were seen from the back it might be mistaken for something entirely benign. Love the inversion of "light = good" here.

Really glad to see the Sinspawn present, along with representation for all seven sin types.

The Neh-thalggu as a whole. I really want to do something based around these guys and possibly Intellect Devourers now. The whole brain currency thing alone presents a lot of ideas to play with.

What I did not like:

The alignment changes on the Forlarren and Crypt Thing from the Tome of Horrors.

The Folarren is one of my favorite fey, and definitely my favorite from the Tome of Horrors. Bipolar fey victim of their own warring passions; an awesome creature for good aligned characters that focus more on redemption than killing evil and taking its stuff. So when I saw that it was going to be in Bestiary 2 I was all like "Aces!" It was actually the creature I was most excited about seeing translated to PFRPG at that point. Looking at it now, it's kind of a buzzkill. I love the art for her, it's perfect. And I like the change to general fiendish ancestry rather than specifically daemonic.

What I didn't like was the shift in alignment from N with evil tendencies to flat-out NE, as well as the change in how their mood swings work. It just seemed to be to paint them solidly as "something evil that needs killing". What was once a creature that offered great, nuanced dramatic potential is going to be sold completely short by GMs and players who simply look for the "E" in the alignment, write them off as lost causes or fair game for murderin', and that's all they'll ever be to those players who are introduced to them here.

Same thing for the Crypt Thing. One of the few undead that were non-evil out of the box, and now they're evil like every other undead in Pathfinder so far. Was having this one exception to the "undead = evil" rule really too much? Why do they have to be evil? Why can't they remain neutral guardians of tombs and let all the other countless flavors of undead take care of that evil undead quota? I'm just not happy with this shift towards simple evil for either of these creatures.

Along those lines, I also wasn't too hot on the Sceaduinar being evil instead of neutral like its positive energy counterpart, the jyoti. It just continues that whole "negative energy = evil" idea that seemed to take root in 3.x that always irritated me. The Dark Slayers being evil bugged me as well, since they were added onto the Dark Folk group that had been known for being dark and mysterious but not outright evil that made them so interesting to me. As trite as it may sound to some, can't we have a Dark Saint or somesuch subrace to kind of balance that out? Anything to avoid yet another race/creature line falling into that simple "dark = evil" trope.

Off the alignment issue...I had misgivings about the Petitioner entry when I first heard about it, and my worries were pretty much confirmed when I read it. It just sets too much in stone for my preference on that matter, and a lot of the flavor for the plane-specific petitioners just didn't work for me. I love the idea of the Limbo "Dia de los Muertos parade" folks and the Nirvana animal people as examples of petitioners that can be found on those planes, but having all N or NG souls fated to be skeleton people or talking animals just doesn't fit what I'm looking for in Golarion, and I really hope these aren't intended to overwrite what has been stated already in The Great Beyond as Golarion canon.

All that aside, I'm generally really positive about the book. It's just that those things, especially the Forlarren and Crypt Thing, really irritate me. I can change what doesn't work for me in my games, but I hate that some of those creatures are going to painted that way for new gamers now. It just feels like a step backwards to "it's dark it's evil, it's got problems it's evil, it's ancestors were evil it's evil, kill it".

Still, as a whole I'm really liking this book. Continuing to read now.


Are the huge felines, canines, etc for the lion, wolf, and other druid shamans from the APG to turn into?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Joe Bots wrote:
Are the huge felines, canines, etc for the lion, wolf, and other druid shamans from the APG to turn into?

That's covered in Bestiary 1: Creature + Giant Creature Template (twice if necessary.) If such creatures exist in your GM's campaigns.

Personally, I thank Paizo for not spending space in Bestiary 2 on redoing stuff in the first Bestiary with templates.


Any new enticing Companion options for the Ranger/Druid fans?


I'm a little confused as I have recieved my PDFs of this and Lords of Damnation but my order is still showing as pending...Not complaining just confused.


DM Wellard wrote:
I'm a little confused as I have recieved my PDFs of this and Lords of Damnation but my order is still showing as pending...Not complaining just confused.

Oh well feel free to onforward your spares :p

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

Mikaze wrote:
The Dark Slayers being evil bugged me as well, since they were added onto the Dark Folk group that had been known for being dark and mysterious but not outright evil that made them so interesting to me. As trite as it may sound to some, can't we have a Dark Saint or somesuch subrace to kind of balance that out?

Based on what I was given as a starting point, I went with evil to give the Dark Folk a grimmer side to go with the inscrutable. I think they came out pretty well. I'd love to revisit the dark folk again at a later date, though, and I'd expect future variants wouldn't be likely to be evil (though CG seems a stretch).

Plus, the way dark folk have been described, they always seemed right on the edge of evil. So a nastier offshoot seemed a natural fit for evil.

Contributor

Mikaze wrote:
Along those lines, I also wasn't too hot on the Sceaduinar being evil instead of neutral like its positive energy counterpart, the jyoti. It just continues that whole "negative energy = evil" idea that seemed to take root in 3.x that always irritated me.

Well, keep in mind that like Bestiary I, this book is going to have non-campaign-specific flavor text (for example the names of unique celestials in Bestiary I). In certain instances Golarion-specific flavor text will supercede it, and in the case of sceaduinar alignment unless it's overtly retconned I would go with them being N in Golarion's cosmology like the jyoti, since their original depiction had them described as hostile to life by their nature, but overtly not being evil.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Todd Stewart wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Along those lines, I also wasn't too hot on the Sceaduinar being evil instead of neutral like its positive energy counterpart, the jyoti. It just continues that whole "negative energy = evil" idea that seemed to take root in 3.x that always irritated me.
Well, keep in mind that like Bestiary I, this book is going to have non-campaign-specific flavor text (for example the names of unique celestials in Bestiary I). In certain instances Golarion-specific flavor text will supercede it, and in the case of sceaduinar alignment unless it's overtly retconned I would go with them being N in Golarion's cosmology like the jyoti, since their original depiction had them described as hostile to life by their nature, but overtly not being evil.

Something that is hostile to life but non-evil is a concept a bit too Planescapey and philosophical for the unwashed masses of Prime berks this book is marketed to, alas. Them brain-boxes just can't handle the dark of it all.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Gorbacz wrote:
Todd Stewart wrote:
Well, keep in mind that like Bestiary I, this book is going to have non-campaign-specific flavor text (for example the names of unique celestials in Bestiary I). In certain instances Golarion-specific flavor text will supercede it, and in the case of sceaduinar alignment unless it's overtly retconned I would go with them being N in Golarion's cosmology like the jyoti, since their original depiction had them described as hostile to life by their nature, but overtly not being evil.
Something that is hostile to life but non-evil is a concept a bit too Planescapey and philosophical for the unwashed masses of Prime berks this book is marketed to, alas. Them brain-boxes just can't handle the dark of it all.

A line from 'Standing down' by David Drake comes to mind.

"Joachim's not evil, Madam Trump. Just... Loyal."

"A razor blade in an apple isn't evil either. It is just too dangerous to be allowed to exist."

Edit: Also Sharks are a good example. They're perfectly designed/evolved* into a role of a killing machine. They're not evil.

*

Spoiler:
Your theology may vary

Scarab Sages

does the Dance of Joy upon finally receiving the email that his order is shipping


Dance of Ruin wrote:

...Just one big gripe:

The Krenshar art does not feature a 'OH HAI!' speech bubble. I blame the artist. ;)

{whispers} Pssst... maybe you'd prefer something a bit sillier? Oh and the miniature giant space hamsters are over on aisle three.


Hurrah for Paizo Warehouse team. I received my had copy of the Bestiary 2 today 12-17-2010 at about 10:45 am. Amazingly I noticed on the shipping label it was postmarked 12-15-2010. That comes out at just 2 days from Redmond, WA to Houston, TX. Way to go team. Thank you very much. Now I hope all others get theirs as easily as this came through. Just think 2 days in the middle of Christmas rush.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
silverhair2008 wrote:
Hurrah for Paizo Warehouse team. I received my had copy of the Bestiary 2 today 12-17-2010 at about 10:45 am. Amazingly I noticed on the shipping label it was postmarked 12-15-2010. That comes out at just 2 days from Redmond, WA to Houston, TX. Way to go team. Thank you very much. Now I hope all others get theirs as easily as this came through. Just think 2 days in the middle of Christmas rush.

I'm curious if the world record for USA -> Poland shipment will be beaten (currently: 5 working days) :)))


Shifty wrote:
Any new enticing Companion options for the Ranger/Druid fans?

Yes. Just going from pure awesomeness, you can now have an Allosaurus animal companion, as well as the other dinosaurs. Also, each of the four Megafauna can be an animal companion, and for ordinary animals you have the Baboon, Hippo, Giant Snapping Turtle, Manta Ray, and Sting Ray.

Scarab Sages

Aberzombie wrote:
does the Dance of Joy upon finally receiving the email that his order is shipping

sadly realizes that the shipment probably won't get to him before Christmas


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Aberzombie wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
does the Dance of Joy upon finally receiving the email that his order is shipping
sadly realizes that the shipment probably won't get to him before Christmas

Optimism Zombie we are almost to the year of FAWTL, it might surprise you.

Scarab Sages

Justin Franklin wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
does the Dance of Joy upon finally receiving the email that his order is shipping
sadly realizes that the shipment probably won't get to him before Christmas
Optimism Zombie we are almost to the year of FAWTL, it might surprise you.

Today I am a glass half empty and has a hole in the bottom zombie.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Todd Stewart wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Along those lines, I also wasn't too hot on the Sceaduinar being evil instead of neutral like its positive energy counterpart, the jyoti. It just continues that whole "negative energy = evil" idea that seemed to take root in 3.x that always irritated me.
Well, keep in mind that like Bestiary I, this book is going to have non-campaign-specific flavor text (for example the names of unique celestials in Bestiary I). In certain instances Golarion-specific flavor text will supercede it, and in the case of sceaduinar alignment unless it's overtly retconned I would go with them being N in Golarion's cosmology like the jyoti, since their original depiction had them described as hostile to life by their nature, but overtly not being evil.

Actually... while it's cool to make a change like that in a home game... in Golarion, the sceaduinar are evil. That's a top-level decision I made because negative energy, while itself no more evil than, say, fire or acid or positive energy, is not something that creatures who use it can really do "good" things with. It's heavy association with undeath and the destruction of life, along with the corresponding flavor text for the nightshades, made making the sceaduinar evil an obvious choice to me. For me... "hostile to life by nature" is, by definition, evil. It's basically the same personalty as a daemon or an undead creature.

So: Sceaduinars are evil.


Man, I can't wait to get my copy :) It'll be another month or so, but I'm anxiously awaiting it :)

Deanoth wrote:

Oh Sean does try and kiss all the girls and then he wakes up... He is a true lady's man though. Bald head and all. When I worked with him as a moderator and TSRO when he was the head of our group, man his sense of humor was way too funny :)

-TSRO_Kip or WizO_Kip :D

Ha! Heya Kippers! Sketch here! LTNS!

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

DM Wellard wrote:
I'm a little confused as I have recieved my PDFs of this and Lords of Damnation but my order is still showing as pending...Not complaining just confused.

It's not pending on this side. i suspect that status may have just taken a little while to update for you.

Dark Archive

W00t just got my copy in the mail and it has that amazing new book smell. Now time to do some reading!!!

Contributor

James Jacobs wrote:

Actually... while it's cool to make a change like that in a home game... in Golarion, the sceaduinar are evil. That's a top-level decision I made because negative energy, while itself no more evil than, say, fire or acid or positive energy, is not something that creatures who use it can really do "good" things with. It's heavy association with undeath and the destruction of life, along with the corresponding flavor text for the nightshades, made making the sceaduinar evil an obvious choice to me. For me... "hostile to life by nature" is, by definition, evil. It's basically the same personalty as a daemon or an undead creature.

So: Sceaduinars are evil.

Boo hiss you retconned me. I'm going to go hold a grudge for like 20 seconds now. I hate you James. You're a meanie who doesn't like negative energy based creatures. I'm going to go hug my giant, stuffed Xeg-Yi and my plush Trilloch. They never judge me, they're based on negative energy, and they're Neutral. :P

Or something like that. ;)

We meet in the middle and have them having turned evil as a result of events in the past, linked in to their enmity and jealousy towards the jyoti (ie the claims that the positive critters stole their ability to create, etc)?

Yeah I whined to Wesley about this too. He told me I couldn't whine about it. But I'm totally being a rebel.


Vic Wertz wrote:
DM Wellard wrote:
I'm a little confused as I have recieved my PDFs of this and Lords of Damnation but my order is still showing as pending...Not complaining just confused.
It's not pending on this side. i suspect that status may have just taken a little while to update for you.

That indeed seems to have been the case Vic the whole order shows shipped now and I got my PDFs for AP#40 and Godsmouth Heresy yesterday.

Please pass on my appreciation to the unsung heroes of your distribution people. I work in warehousing myself and know how difficult getting stuff in and out can be at this time of year

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Todd Stewart wrote:

Boo hiss you retconned me. I'm going to go hold a grudge for like 20 seconds now. I hate you James. You're a meanie who doesn't like negative energy based creatures. I'm going to go hug my giant, stuffed Xeg-Yi and my plush Trilloch. They never judge me, they're based on negative energy, and they're Neutral. :P

Or something like that. ;)

We meet in the middle and have them having turned evil as a result of events in the past, linked in to their enmity and jealousy towards the jyoti (ie the claims that the positive critters stole their ability to create, etc)?

Yeah I whined to Wesley about this too. He told me I couldn't whine about it. But I'm totally being a rebel.

Don't make me errata the jyoti into lawful good!

(cracks knuckles; laughs evilly; wanders off to read more "Manitou")


Is the table of content out? I would like to see what's in it.

Shadow Lodge

Exiled Prince wrote:
Is the table of content out? I would like to see what's in it.

MONSTERS!!! That's what's in it.

Paizo Employee Managing Developer

Back on page 13, Deanoth was kind enough to type up the list.


Kthulhu wrote:
Exiled Prince wrote:
Is the table of content out? I would like to see what's in it.
MONSTERS!!! That's what's in it.

Can I kill them yet boss?...

Dark Archive

James Jacobs wrote:
(cracks knuckles; laughs evilly; wanders off to read more "Manitou")

I heard about the premise and that sounds like one creepy book!

Have you seen Black Swan?

Take Mark.


BubbaBugbear wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Exiled Prince wrote:
Is the table of content out? I would like to see what's in it.
MONSTERS!!! That's what's in it.
Can I kill them yet boss?...

Yes! And do it quick. They offend my royal airs.


Adam Daigle wrote:
Back on page 13, Deanoth was kind enough to type up the list.

Thank you.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

baron arem heshvaun wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
(cracks knuckles; laughs evilly; wanders off to read more "Manitou")

I heard about the premise and that sounds like one creepy book!

Have you seen Black Swan?

Take Mark.

Already saw Black Swan. Mark would have only jumped and thrown popcorn all over the place.

Liberty's Edge

Vic Wertz wrote:

To answer a couple of questions from the last few days:

We are currently processing subscriber orders and preorders; it'll take a few days to get through them all. The official retail release date is December 29, so any retailer who has it before that date is supposed to hold it until then.

Shipments have already gone out to our distributors, including international and book trade distributors, but we have no control over (or insight into) the shipping to individual retailers (including Amazon) from those distributors.

I understand why you have done this with respect to the shipping date and a retail hold/ Amazon hold until after Christmas. I get it Vic, I really do.

I think, however, that releasing to retail AFTER Xmas is.... not a policy which is likely to win any hearts and minds among retailers. I'm sure you had significant discussions at an ownership level regarding this policy and that you have done what you believe is in your overall best interest of Paizo Publishing LLC.

Were I a store owner though? Well. I'm not likely to say anything positive in such speculation and I'm sure you can fill in the blanks.

All That said (and not said), I would point out, however, that this is a really crappy thing to do at Xmas time to your customers who do not reside in the United States of America. I expect that the number of people who subscribe to your products or who otherwise order directly from the Paizo web store who reside in Canada are very few and far between, due to the shipping costs of these products to Canada. I would be exceedingly surprised if these customers amount to triple digits, let alone have any material impact upon Paizo's bottom line. For Canadians, it simply does not make any sense to order from the Paizo web store. It's slow and it's just way too expensive after shipping costs are added. Indeed, Paizo's products, after shipping costs, are essentially twice the cost of Amazon.ca's. Even most local retailers are cheaper than the Paizo web store when the increased shipping cost are taken into account.

So, it seems to me that there is a retail hold on a street date in Canada to promote purchases of a book for Xmas from the Paizo store ... the reasons for which is to encourage American customers to purchase directly and not Canadian ones.

It also seems to me that the chances of any grey-marketing back to retail in the USA would be very few if volume shipments to Canada were relatively few in the first 2 weeks of release.

I suppose the real situation is whether or not there is any shipment to Diamond Comics in Canada, or if such delivery of products to the Canadian retail market wholly rely upon Diamond Comics as distributor in the USA. My guess is that it is probably Diamond dealing with that distribution and not Paizo.

*sigh*

I know it's probably too late to do anything about this right now, I'm just drawing the issue to your attention for "next time". Because no matter how you slice it Vic, it's a finger in the eye of your Canadian customers which results from a ham-fisted policy aimed at protecting your American domestic market. While I do understand the principal rationale for the retail embargo in the USA, it's not a very rational policy at Xmas time, vis-a-vis- those Canadian customers...

Or your Canadian retailers, for that matter. Why would a Canadian game store owner want to promote Paizo products or PFS Society, say, when you are undertaking policies whose necessary and unavoidable effect is to screw up that store owners' retail sales at Xmas time to no particular purpose?

The answer is that there is no good reason at all. Were I such a store owner, I'd flip you the bird and tell you to go to hell.

Blunt talk, I know; however, sometimes, polite language can get in the way of clarity.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Steel_Wind wrote:
So, it seems to me that there is a retail hold on a street date in Canada to promote purchases of a book for Xmas from the Paizo store ... the reasons for which is to encourage American customers to purchase directly and not Canadian ones.

I can say that this isn't the case. They have handled the release exactly the way they handle all their releases. Paizo sets the release date to be about 2 weeks after it hits their warehouse. Having a set release date is to allow all stores to receive their copies before the release date. That way if two stores are near each other and one happens to get the shipment a few days early it doesn't give a particular store a significant advantage.

It also lets stores in other places like Canada have a chance to get the books on their shelves at the same time as stores in the US. It also sets the date the PDF becomes available for general sale, which they want to coincide with its appearance in stores.

As to Amazon, they are just extra slow. Any delays from Amazon past the release date are due to Amazon being an uncaring juggernaut.

Trust me, Paizo would have greatly preferred the book to have been ready 2 weeks earlier to be in stores everywhere before Christmas.


As for comic retail stores the holidays don't affect them like normal retail stores. My research has shown that comic stores/RPG gaming stores tend to have a relatively flat line when it comes to sales. Meaning that their sales tend to be relatively steady from month to month.

So the fact that Piazo set its release date for after christmas should not affect their sales at all. Come on give Piazo credit for I am sure they did their research prior to setting their release dates on their items. They have been at this now for years.

Paizo Employee Managing Developer

Isn't this more a CS issue than a product discussion?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

deinol wrote:

I can say that this isn't the case. They have handled the release exactly the way they handle all their releases. Paizo sets the release date to be about 2 weeks after it hits their warehouse. Having a set release date is to allow all stores to receive their copies before the release date. That way if two stores are near each other and one happens to get the shipment a few days early it doesn't give a particular store a significant advantage.

It also lets stores in other places like Canada have a chance to get the books on their shelves at the same time as stores in the US. It also sets the date the PDF becomes available for general sale, which they want to coincide with its appearance in stores.

This is all correct.

Another important thing to note is that we couldn't possibly have shipped this product any sooner than we did. We started shipping to distributors—both domestic and international—as soon as it arrived in our warehouse.

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