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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Player's Guide (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Player's Guide (OGL)
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Take your Game to the Next Level!

Explore new and uncharted depths of roleplaying with the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide! Empower your existing characters with expanded rules for all 11 Pathfinder Roleplaying Game core classes and seven core races, or build a new one from the ground up with one of six brand-new, 20-level base classes. Whether you're designing your own monstrous helpers as an enigmatic summoner, brewing up trouble with a grimy urban alchemist, or simply teaching an old rogue a new trick, this book has everything you need to make your heroes more heroic.

The Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide is a must-have companion volume to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into the new millennium.

The 336-page Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide includes:

  • Six new base classes: the monster-hunting inquisitor, the explosive alchemist, the noble cavalier, the prophecy-haunted oracle, the monster-crafting summoner, and the hex-weaving witch
  • More than a hundred innovative new feats and combat abilities for characters of all classes, including Steal, Point-Blank Master, and Bouncing Spell
  • Variant class abilities, rules subsystems, and thematic archetypes for all 11 core classes, such as the antipaladin, the hungry ghost monk, and the urban ranger
  • Hundreds of new spells and magic items, from phantasmal revenge to the Storm King's Cloud Castle
  • A wealth of fantastic equipment, such as fireblast rods and fortune-tellers' cards
  • New prestige classes like the Master Chymist and the Battle Herald
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-246-3

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Last Updated - 12/01/2010

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good

5/5 —

good addition to the collection offers good spells and feats, came in on time and I bought the non-mint and I haven't noticed any damage to it.

Players: Buy this after the Core Rulebook

5/5 —

If you own a Core Rulebook and a Bestiary, what Pathfinder book should you buy next? A campaign setting book or an adventure module would be good answers, but if you're looking for more character options, the best answer would be the Advanced Player's Guide. This was Paizo's first big player-oriented hardcover to be released after the Core Rulebook, and it's safe to say they knocked it out of the park. This book has stood the test of time and still contains fantastic options for the game even though it was released several years ago. If you're playing PFS on a budget, for example, and you have to be choosy with what books or PDFs you buy, start with the Advanced Player's Guide. You'll find enough options in there to keep you busy for years.

What follows is a chapter-by-chapter review. Do keep in mind that this book pre-dates the publication of classes like the magus, vigilante, kineticist, etc., so you won't find options directly designed for them. In addition, because it's part of the RPG line, it does not contain Golarion-specific flavour (though everything in here is compatible with the setting). As a whole, I would classify the art as in the lower-middle spectrum of what Paizo can do, with a lot of reused mediocre stuff from earlier books. The layout as a whole, however, is quite nice.

Chapter 1 (Races): After an Introduction that's really just an expanded table of contents, Chapter 1 expands the options available for Core races (those found in the Core Rulebook). For each race, a sentence or two describes how each of the Core classes and the so-called Base classes (those found later in this book) are represented within the culture. I found this section was fairly generic and tried too hard to make it sound like each class was common in each race, so there wasn't anything that seemed special. Next up are alternative racial traits for the Core races. These are important in that they allow a player to swap out one of the special features of a race (like an elf's automatic familiarity with elven weapons, or a gnome's resistance to illusion) for a different special feature. In other words, it's a good way to customize your PC just a little more and ensure that not all dwarfs are skilled at stonework, for example. Last, this chapter presents new favoured class options for each of the Core races: instead of the normal rule that a new level in a favoured class provides 1 hit point or 1 skill point, these new options allow a particular race to get something different. For example, a gnome with the favoured class of bard could get an extra round of bardic performance each day, or a half-orc with the favoured class of fighter could get an additional +2 to stabilization rolls when dying. Note that each race only has new favoured class options for handful of classes (not all of them). Unlike the alternate racial traits, I wasn't particularly impressed with the flavour or thought given to the new favoured class options: many of them didn't seem to have any particular tie to the race. Half-orcs, for example, can increase their bomb damage if their favoured class is alchemist, while human paladins can start to get energy resistance--there's nothing in the write-up of these races that make these bonuses seem natural or logical. From an optimization perspective, these new favoured class options are quite useful--I just wish they were better from a storytelling perspective.

Chapter 2 (Classes): One of the most important things that the Advanced Player's Guide brings to Pathfinder is the introduction of six new "Base" classes: the Alchemist, Cavalier, Inquisitor, Oracle, Summoner, and Witch. I don't have a lot of space to review each one, so I'll try to be concise.

The Alchemist fills a real niche in the game, is quite versatile, and would be really fun to play. They get special abilities to rapidly make alchemical items (of course), but also can manufacture bombs, cast magic spells (in the form of drinkable "elixirs"), and temporarily "hulk out" by drinking a "mutagen." As a GM, my only concern is the fact that the bombs resolve against Touch AC, so in games I've run the alchemist PC hardly ever misses and does substantial amounts of damage as an area effect. I also think that perhaps the mutagen feature should have been reserved for a specific "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" archetype, as I don't thik it fits well as part of the basic assumption of alchemists.

The Cavalier could probably have been better represented as a Fighter archetype. Cavaliers are mounted knights who swear an oath to follow the precepts of a particular order. Different orders provide different bonuses, Cavalier's mounts are hardier than normal, and the class provides PCs and their allies with some limited use of teamwork feats (discussed below). As written, the class is fairly bland, and I don't think it fills a hole in what could be covered well by other classes. You also see Cavaliers relatively rarely in gameplay because, frankly, they're just inferior to other builds (and I should know, because I've played one for a couple of years now!).

The Inquisitor is one of those classes I'm a bit torn about. The idea is that they're specialists in rooting out corruption and heresy within their faith, which is thematically really cool: but I don't see how that fits naturally with the activities of the vast majority of adventuring parties in the game. The class is conceptually unique and has a lot of cool and useful abilities, some of which seem to fit from a flavour perspective (like Bane) but others that just seem kind of random (like Monster Lore and Cunning Initiative).

The Oracle is another interesting class that I'm unsure about conceptually. Mechanically, they're spontaneous divine spellcasters who don't worship deities per se but instead strive to unravel a particular "mystery." As they advance in level, they get "revelations" which are special powers. Some of the revelations are really cool, and the mysteries are very flavourful. I like the class better after reading it carefully, though I'm still not sure about the name of the class (since divination isn't the focus) nor about the vague relationship they have to deities. They are a divine spellcasting class that is much simpler to play than clerics (though less effective), and thus potentially a good choice for new players.

The Summoner as presented in this book is infamous as the most overpowered class in all of Pathfinder, to the point where most GMs and PFS disallow it. "Unchained" Summoners (as they're usually called in contradistinction to a different type from another book) are, of course, really good at summoning lots of monsters, which is annoying for everyone at the table because it dramatically slows down gameplay. But more problematically, each Summoner gets an "eidolon" which is a bit like a completely customizable and incredibly powerful monstrous animal companion. If you have an Unchained Summoner, you may as well be playing a solo campaign because you probably don't need anyone else in the party to win most encounters. I'm not sure how the Unchained Summoner ever made it through playtesting, but it stands as an example that even great companies like Paizo can make major mistakes.

The Witch is a full (up to 9th level spells) spellcasting class that receives special powers called hexes. Some of the hexes are really flavourful and cool, and the concept of the class as a whole is one I really like. There are two things about the class I'm not a fan of: first, familiars are a major part of the class and as both a player and a GM I find familiars really annoying to deal with (because they rarely contribute positively to a play experience); second, each witch receives bonus spells depending on what "patron" they choose, but the patrons are just abstract concepts (like "Agility" or "Water") and have no substance or flavour to them, and no real potential for story development. I think it was a bland and almost forgettable way of implementing a really cool idea (mysterious forces granting a character power in exchange for . . .?). I should also note that one of the witch's hexes, Slumber, has proven overpowered and problematic at a lot of tables.

So as a whole, I think the Alchemist is a real success, while Witches, Oracles, and Inquisitors are solid additions to the game. The Cavalier is mostly forgotten, while the Summoner is a good example of what not to do in terms of game design.

The Classes chapter then continues by offering each of the Core classes something special, often in the form of "archetypes." If you don't already know, archetypes are packages of abilities that swap out some of the features of a class in exchange for other features, and they've become an important part of most builds for experienced players. Here's a summary of what each Core class gets.

1) Barbarians receive a lot of cool new options for rage powers (though, oddly, a lot of them relate to consuming alcohol) and several archetypes that don't change a lot of class features but that are quite good;

2) Bards get some fantastic and (sometimes quite dramatic) archetypes, at least as written--but admittedly, I don't hear about them being played very often;

3) Clerics receive the introduction of "subdomains", which are, as the name indicates, "branch" domains. A cleric with the Sun domain, for example, could now choose the replacement special power and domain spells of the Light subdomain. It's a way to allow the further customization of clerics since they don't have a lot of class features to trade out for archetypes;

4) Druids get archetypes that are all terrain-based and quite formulaic, along with a handful of "animal shaman" archetypes that have the same essential ability to gain an aspect of a particular animal's powers.

5) Fighters get a lot of archetypes, most of which are poor in terms of flavour ("Archer" or "Two-Handed Fighter") but some that are quite nutritious, as it were, to aiding particular combat styles;

6) Monks get a lot of archetypes, most of which are pretty bland but some, like the Zen Archer, the Monk of the Four Winds' Slow Time ability, and the Monk of the Healing Hand's capstone power are pretty cool;

7) Paladins get archetypes that are okay, but there's some clunky features for the Divine Defender and Sacred Servant. There's also the introduction of the Antipaladin (formally an "Alternate" Class) which I know a lot of people demanded but I'm just not a fan of the concept because I think it devalues the essential goodness of the Paladin idea;

8) Rangers get new archetypes and some new combat styles. I really like the Guide archetype, as the Terrain Bond feature seems much truer to the niche that rangers should fill as wilderness experts. The Infiltrator and Skirmisher archetypes also get some cool stuff;

9) Rogues receive 30 new rogue talents and 12 new advanced rogue talents to choose from, though most are of the "1/day, roll two d20s and take the better" on a specific skill check type. I like the Fast Getaway talent (allowing a rogue to sneak attack and then withdraw), and imagine it would keep a lot of rogues alive. The class also receives several archetypes, but most are pretty thin and forgettable (though the Cutpurse could be used to devastating effect depending on GM discretion);

10) Sorcerers receive 10 new bloodlines, and although I'm not an expert on the class, they look useful and meaningful;

11) Wizards get new elemental schools to specialize in, and some of the special powers look like a lot of fun (like the Air school's Cyclone power or the Water school's Wave power). There's also the introduction of "Focused Arcane Schools" which you can think of as "super specialization" in a particular aspect of a School in order to gain replacement powers.

Whew! A lot of stuff in that chapter. Moving on.

Chapter 3 (Feats) contains a *lot* of new feats. The summary table which gives a one-line description of each one fills four pages. Many of the new feats are standalone things, but others can be grouped by type: several give an additional use of class features ("Extra Rage Power", "Extra Rogue Talent", etc.), make it easier to use the new combat maneuvers introduced at the end of the book, create new metamagic options for spellcasting (with "Dazing Spell" responsible for a lot frustration to GMs), etc. A new type of feat, Teamwork Feats, are introduced for the first time in this chapter. The idea with Teamwork Feats is that if two PCs (or allied NPCs) have the same feat, they both get bonuses in particular situations: for example, if two PCs have the "Allied Spellcaster" teamwork feat, they each get a +2 bonus on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. I do like the concept, but the proven problem is that it's often hard to get other players at the table to have their PCs take the same one that you're taking, and the bonuses provided by the feats aren't so amazing that groups are inclined to carefully coordinate.

Chapter 4 (Equipment) contains about 25 new weapons (including some of those fun, weird polearms D&D veterans will recognize), a handful of new types of armor, a lot of new pieces of adventuring gear, and several new alchemical items. There's not a lot here that's earth-shattering, though some items, such as Weapon Blanch, have become de rigeur for every smart adventurer. It would have been nice if more of the equipment was illustrated, and that better choices were made on what was essential to illustrate: I know what an hourglass looks like, for example, and don't need a picture, but seeing what a "light detector" looks like would have been interesting.

Chapter 5 (Spells) has 57 pages of options for spellcasters of every stripe. Reading through, I noticed a surprising number of cool Paladin spells, a lot of Bard "finale" spells (that are cast and instantly end bardic performance), and a lot of ninth level spells. Some of the spells I really liked include Blaze of Glory, Fire Snake, and Hero's Defiance, and the picture of Cacophonous Call on p. 209 is hilarious. Every spellcaster is bound to find something useful, but there are some problematic ones introduced in this chapter, like the Create Pit line, that GMs need to be aware of.

Chapter 6 (Prestige Classes) introduces eight new options that PCs could, but probably won't, strive for. Pathfinder long had a reputation for not making much of the prestige class concept, and that's only recently begun to change. Really fast verdicts: 1) Battle Herald: Love the concept, but everything is tied off an "Inspiring Command" bonus which just progresses too slowly, making the entire prestige class weak; 2) Holy Vindicator: no design room for the concept, and the abilities don't help; 3) Horizon Walker: the bonuses in some terrains are fantastic and in others completely "meh"; 4) Master Chymist: Classic Jekyll & Hyde alchemist; 5) Master Spy: I liked this more than I thought I would, and could see it used for a lot of NPCs or maybe a PC (in just the right campaign). Gets clever and useful foils to most means of detection, but abilities come on line much later than they should for most adventures; 6) Rage prophet: Not impressive. 7) Stalwart Defender: Good, cool abilities that fit the theme, and a good capstone power.

Chapter 7 (Magic Items) has something of everything: magic weapons, armor, wondrous items, minor and major artifacts, etc. The new metamagic rods are really powerful considering the price, the new staves are pretty boring, and there's a lot of stuff geared specifically for the new classes, which makes sense. If you've dumped Strength and are relying on Muleback Cords, you've got this book to thank. My only regret is that the chapter introduces so many fun cursed magic items, and I hardly ever get an opportunity to use any in a game.

Chapter 8 (New Rules) is an important chapter containing three new concepts: additional combat maneuvers, hero points, and traits. [I'm almost done, but have run out of space here. The end of the review can be found at: http://jhaeman.blogspot.com.au/2017/07/advanced-players-guide-rpg.html]

A very awesome book

5/5 —

this expands almost perfectly on what the core is.

They add some very solid and original class ideas.

This a must buy for some that like pathfinder

5/5 —

The Shinning Example of What Pathfinder Books Should Be

5/5 —

The Advanced Player's Guide (APG) is to this day one the best books for Pathfinder. It introduces a number of (now iconic) classes unique to the system.

The overall balance of the book is amazing. Alchemist and Inquisitor are probably the two most well-balanced classes in the game, and the latter is what I consider to be the best designed one in all of Pathfinder.

We get a few alternate rules that are pretty cool, such as word casting and character traits. We even get new combat maneuvers added to the fold!

The possibilities of character creation allowed by this book greatly increases the variety and fun of Pathfinder. If you can only buy a single expansion book, buy this one.

The book is not perfect, of course. The Summoner class (and even more so, its archetypes) would really benefit from clearer wording. It's sad to see cool ideas such as word casting being completely abandoned after this...

Still, those are minor problems in comparison to all the good stuff that is included in the APG, and the book still deserves its 5-star rating.

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The Exchange
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:
That's exactly the reason - Orbs were auto-hit, no SR, no save spells. They made any core evocation spell look silly in comprasion. Why cast lightning bolts when you have orbs ?

Actually, orbs require ranged touch attacks.

Gorbacz wrote:
That's exactly the reason - Orbs were auto-hit, no SR, no save spells. They made any core evocation spell look silly in comprasion. Why cast lightning bolts when you have orbs ?

Oh, to say they completely replaced the core spells is reaching. I like to play an arcane caster (Sorceror mostly) and I have found both have their place. The core area effect/cone spells (Fireball, Ligthing Bolt, Cone of Cold, etc.) are always going to be better than Orb spells when you want to clear out the mass groups with lower HP’s. Where with the Orbs are good for the single targets that have high HP’s.

Also, they are not auto-hit. Having a better chance to hit a touch AC is much different than an auto-hit.

And the range is very limited on top of that. No, the Orbs by far do not make the core spells obsolete.
The Exchange
Hobbun wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Speaking of them, Orb spells should die and be forgotten. They were really stupid, rules-wise.

How so? I thought they were pretty darn nice, actually. Good damage. No Spell Resistance. And the saving throw only avoided a minor effect, did not lessen damage.

Their only drawback was the range. Well, some may think another drawback is you needed to roll to hit as well, but it was touch AC, which most casters could hit when they got to higher levels.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

Julian Neale wrote:
Black Dow wrote:

Fancy throwing Scotland a bone too and filling me in on the Savage Skald?

Cheers

BD

Here you go, BD!

** spoiler omitted **...

Julian yer a star - thanks for this - the Savage Skald looks even better than I could have hoped :)

Any changes on the Skills/Weapons Prof for this archetype?

Skills/Weapon Profs are exactly the same, as are other abilities, except for the ones that are replaced.

Glad you like it, and glad to help!
Misery wrote:

<vent> UGH! This irritates me to no end still that they haven't included other weapons besides the scimitar into this little dex to damage club. I wasn't expecting something huge, just the same treatment that was given to that stupid scimitar.

But as it stands, the duelist is a better duelist with a scimitar with ONE little feat. If I want to roll a dex based character and use a single weapon, then if I don't use a scimitar then I'm hurting myself by a lot.

It's not exactly what you're looking for, but the Sargava: the Lost Colony book has a light weapon 'power attack' feat: Piranha Strike Basically, it works the same as power attack, but for light weapons only, and offhand weapons only get 1/2 the damage bonus. It's prereqs are weapon finesse and +1 Base Attack. (oh, and you can't combine it with power attack).

Still, it lets light weapon folks get a little damage back...
Liberty's Edge

I am marking off the days until my book arrives.

Until then, can someone please post details about the new Scorcerer Bloodlines???

Thanks!!!
Dark Archive
TheLoneCleric wrote:
How do the new Prestige Classes looking?

Really, really, realllly amazing.

Every single one.

Well, almost every one. *cough*horizonwalker*cough*

Here's the low-down on a couple of my favorites:

The Master Spy

Spoiler:
The Master Spy gains alllll kinds of insane powers. It gets excellent disguise bonuses, nondetection, can BECOME any alignment for the purposes of detection spells, and can even fool discern location. You remember discern location, right? That spell that can only be fooled by divine intervention? Yeah.

Master Spy: *knock, knock*
BBEG: *opens door* Oh hi, grandma.
Master Spy: Hi sonny. Mind if I come in?
BBEG: Hmm... you're not a spy, are you?
Master Spy: No, I'm your grandma.
BBEG: We'll see about that. *casts discern location to locate grandma*
Discern Location: She's right in front of you, dummy.
BBEG: Okay, good. Come on in, grandma!
Master Spy: *snicker*

Also, the Master Spy gets a bit of sneak attack and gains a death attack that stacks with your assassin levels for the purposes of determining it's DC. If I'm remembering right, it also gets slippery mind and two good saves.

The Rage Prophet

Spoiler:
This is going to be my next major villain. Long story short, the rage prophet is for barbarian/oracles ONLY, and is what the "Rage Mage" should have been all along. It misses out on three levels of spellcasting, and you'll miss a couple more qualifying for the class. Yes, this means that your spells aren't going to be very high level... but DAMN are they going to hit.

While you are raging, your spells gain a bonus on caster levels equal to something-or-other, and you gain a bonus to the DC of any spell you cast equal to your mothereffing RAGING CONSTITUTION MODIFIER.

And yes, that's in addition to your Charisma modifier and Spell Focuses.

And yes, the rage prophet still gets Greater Rage for the +6 Con.

And yes, temporary Con buffs apply.

So even if you have only 16 Con and 16 Charisma by the end of the class, plus a couple of meager +2 enhancement bonuses... your spell DCs (assuming Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus) while raging are going to equal 23 + spell level! If you're better optimized or if you've cast bear's endurance and eagle's splendor, you're looking at DCs of 25 + spell level, or more. And don't forget your caster level bonuses (and there's a core Trait in the back of the book that'll help you with that even more).

Sure, the DCs are ONE point lower if you haven't got the Greater Rage yet, but otherwise you do gain this ability at the first level of the class, if memory serves me. That isn't even all the class gets... it's actually packed with abilities. This and the Vindicator have to be some of the mechanically strongest classes in the book (with the excpetion of the Master Spy, who dressed up like their mothers and coup-de-graced them both in their sleep).
Dark Archive

I have received my PDF and butchered out the bits I really liked for my Campaign Guide for my group.

I am particularly happy with the feats that let you build off of Spell Focus (etc) in the tradition of Augment Summoning, the new Wizard familiars, and the new combat maneuvers.

I'm still poring over the book, so I'm finding more to inspire me.
Dark Archive
Archade wrote:

I have received my PDF and butchered out the bits I really liked for my Campaign Guide for my group.

I am particularly happy with the feats that let you build off of Spell Focus (etc) in the tradition of Augment Summoning, the new Wizard familiars, and the new combat maneuvers.

I'm still poring over the book, so I'm finding more to inspire me.

Did you find the all-day, no-restrictions feat that lets you coup-de-grace stunned or cowering creatures, and only requires that you have five sneak attack dice, yet? : P

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Just want to add,

We're starting a new game saturday (finally, even if I drive an hour to get there) and I'm seriously looking at the inquisitor or the Arcane Duelist bard, over the arcane legionary (party currently is a rogue, a monk, a barbarian and a fighter)

Yes, the new classes and varients are so frakking awesome that I'm looking at playing one over the class I made myself. That's how good this book is.

tidE: ro a naicigam. luaP iniD tae ruoy traeh tuo!
Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
Matthew Morris wrote:

Just want to add,

We're starting a new game saturday (finally, even if I drive an hour to get there) and I'm seriously looking at the inquisitor or the Arcane Duelist bard, over the arcane legionary (party currently is a rogue, a monk, a barbarian and a fighter)

Yes, the new classes and varients are so frakking awesome that I'm looking at playing one over the class I made myself. That's how good this book is.

tidE: ro a naicigam. luaP iniD tae ruoy traeh tuo!

Nice. High praise indeed!

Ok I know this is a lot to ask for but could someone please give me the details of sorcerer shadow bloodline?

Im making an illusion based sorcere and fluff wise i think shadow bloodline is waaay more appropriate than any of the existing bloodlines.

You would make my day :)
The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

Glad you enjoyed the master spy :) You have to stick with it to get the good stuff, and it's a bit more GM than player focused. But it is very much the answer to "how can I replace the king without my PCs catching me?".
Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
Sort_vampyr wrote:

Ok I know this is a lot to ask for but could someone please give me the details of sorcerer shadow bloodline?

Im making an illusion based sorcere and fluff wise i think shadow bloodline is waaay more appropriate than any of the existing bloodlines.

You would make my day :)

Further posting of details is under the Interdict until actual release date which is 8/4.

However, in the APG spoilers thread elsewhere on the boards there has been some discussion of the shadow bloodline already, somewhere in the first 50 or 100 posts I think, so if you look there you should find some bits and pieces about it.
Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
Russ Taylor wrote:
Glad you enjoyed the master spy :) You have to stick with it to get the good stuff, and it's a bit more GM than player focused. But it is very much the answer to "how can I replace the king without my PCs catching me?".

"my PCs and their pesky dog" Never forget the dog.

Damn meddling kids!
Jason Nelson wrote:
Sort_vampyr wrote:

Ok I know this is a lot to ask for but could someone please give me the details of sorcerer shadow bloodline?

Im making an illusion based sorcere and fluff wise i think shadow bloodline is waaay more appropriate than any of the existing bloodlines.

You would make my day :)

Further posting of details is under the Interdict until actual release date which is 8/4.

However, in the APG spoilers thread elsewhere on the boards there has been some discussion of the shadow bloodline already, somewhere in the first 50 or 100 posts I think, so if you look there you should find some bits and pieces about it.

Yeah ok fair enough, I guess that doesn't surprise me :)

Thanks for the hint though
Liberty's Edge
Kakarasa wrote:
Does anyone that has received the .pdf know if the spellcasting classes of the APG have added or lost any of the core spells on their spell listsfrom the playtest? Thanks!

Alchemist : no changes

Inquisitor : no changes

Summoner : many changes

The Summoner gains access to many spells earlier and gains powerful spells in his 6th-level list. He also loses several spells at varied levels to make some room. Most notably, he loses Summon Monster III and VI but gains Summon Monster VII and likely IX (typo gives Summon Monster IV as part of his 6-th level list).

Regretfully, the forum ate my carefully constructed list detailing all the changes :-(

Witch : loses several spells from her basic list

detail:
- loses Prestidigitation (previously a 0-level spell)

- loses Faerie Fire, Feather Fall, Grease (previously 1st-level spells)

- loses Hideous Laughter, Restoration (lesser) (previously 2nd-level spells)

- Baleful polymorph is now a 5th level spell (instead of a 4th-level spell previously)

- gains Phantasmal killer as a 4th-level spell

- loses Restoration, Stoneskin (previously 4th-level spells)

- loses Commune with Nature, Insect Plague, Wall of thorns (previously 5th-level spells)

- loses Restoration (greater) (previously a 7th-level spell)

Note to the mods : should this post not respect a non-disclosure policy I am not aware of, please feel free to edit/delete as needed ;-)

My respect for the people at Paizo is even greater than it was. I do not wish to inconvenience them or the company in the least.

Subliminal message to all who will find my posts useful:
BUY THE APG, BUY THE APG, BUY THE APG
Liberty's Edge

I preordered, still have not gotten the shipment email. Getting worried.
Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

At this point, we're estimating it'll take through Friday to get through the preorders and subscriptions. (There will still be edge cases, like failed credit cards and other issues requiring customer service interaction, that will bleed into next week.)
magnuskn wrote:
nighttree wrote:
Any crumbs thrown on the feats that emulate the Archmage ?
Some are metamagics, some are general feats. Most important things are there, the energy substitution one ( which takes +1 level now ), as well as the shaping ( also +1 level ).

Seems SOME things aren't playtested properly.

WotC's Energy Substitution didn't change spell level, the feat slot was enough. Which is how it should be. I don't understand how one can justify a +1 spell level for making Fireball do Lightning damage instead of Fire.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8
Kvantum wrote:

One of the major reasons Paizo's a better steward of the Open Gaming movement than WotC ever was. The former executives at WotC deserve endless credit for creating the thing in the first place, but it's taken people like Lisa Stevens, Vic Wertz, James Jacobs, and Erik Mona (among the many great minds at Paizo) to make it fully blossom.

Yes! They are awesome!

Hmm, very odd choice of spells to take off the Witch list. Half of those are VERY "Witch-like". I wonder what gives!?

And the Summoner losing out on Summon Monster spells? That makes no sense. Odd.

Can anyone tell me what info they give on the guidelines for adding new spells to the spell lists?
Razz wrote:

Seems SOME things aren't playtested properly.

WotC's Energy Substitution didn't change spell level, the feat slot was enough. Which is how it should be. I don't understand how one can justify a +1 spell level for making Fireball do Lightning damage instead of Fire.

It's not exactly the same as the old Energy Substitution. It gives you the choice of replacing the one type of damage for the other or of doing a mixture of both: half one, half the other.

Vic Wertz wrote:
At this point, we're estimating it'll take through Friday to get through the preorders and subscriptions.

Thanks for the update Vic.

**goes off to the corner and starts crying**
Sinvel Menter wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
At this point, we're estimating it'll take through Friday to get through the preorders and subscriptions.

Thanks for the update Vic.

**goes off to the corner and starts crying**

+1

I'm not crying it's just been raining on my Face.
Razz wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
nighttree wrote:
Any crumbs thrown on the feats that emulate the Archmage ?
Some are metamagics, some are general feats. Most important things are there, the energy substitution one ( which takes +1 level now ), as well as the shaping ( also +1 level ).

Seems SOME things aren't playtested properly.

WotC's Energy Substitution didn't change spell level, the feat slot was enough. Which is how it should be. I don't understand how one can justify a +1 spell level for making Fireball do Lightning damage instead of Fire.

I can, the feat was considered fairly broken for sorcerers.

I recall seeing an admixture (focused evocation)specialist in the spoiler thread that had this as an ability usable several times per day.

The release date for the PDF went from the 4th to the 5th.....
Navior wrote:
Razz wrote:

Seems SOME things aren't playtested properly.

WotC's Energy Substitution didn't change spell level, the feat slot was enough. Which is how it should be. I don't understand how one can justify a +1 spell level for making Fireball do Lightning damage instead of Fire.

It's not exactly the same as the old Energy Substitution. It gives you the choice of replacing the one type of damage for the other or of doing a mixture of both: half one, half the other.

You're mixing up Energy Substitution for Energy Admixture, which is the +4 spell level metamagic feat that builds off of whatever Energy Sub. feat you took.

Also, if this IS like the Master of Elements Archmage class ability, there's a very simple reason there's a +1 spell level adjustment on it: The ability to change a spell to use sonic energy, which not many monsters have a resistance to. Another possible reason it has a +1 price tag is because originally, Energy Substitution gave you one element per feat; this might give you all of them at once. I'll miss being able to use the ability on the fly without having to prepare spells with it, but it's nice not having to waste four feat slots.
Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer
UpSbLiViOn wrote:
The release date for the PDF went from the 4th to the 5th.....

Yes—it should have always been Thursday the 5th—the first day of Gen Con—because that's the official release date of the print edition.

Ashram wrote:
Navior wrote:
It's not exactly the same as the old Energy Substitution. It gives you the choice of replacing the one type of damage for the other or of doing a mixture of both: half one, half the other.

You're mixing up Energy Substitution for Energy Admixture, which is the +4 spell level metamagic feat that builds off of whatever Energy Sub. feat you took.

Also, if this IS like the Master of Elements Archmage class ability, there's a very simple reason there's a +1 spell level adjustment on it: The ability to change a spell to use sonic energy, which not many monsters have a resistance to. Another possible reason it has a +1 price tag is because originally, Energy Substitution gave you one element per feat; this might give you all of them at once. I'll miss being able to use the ability on the fly without having to prepare spells with it, but it's nice not having to waste four feat slots.

Yes, I know. The APG doesn't have a feat called Energy Substitution or Energy Admixture. It does have a feat called Elemental Spell, which is what people seem to be likening to Energy Substitution (unless there's another one that I've missed). Elemental Spell has +1 spell level and gives you the choice of replacing all the energy damage with your chosen type (which does not include sonic) or splitting the energy to do half its regular type and half your chosen type.

GRRRRRRRRRRR..still no sign of mine I guess as usual I'm at the end of the queue
Hobbun wrote:
This will be the last I say on this as it does not apply to this thread at all, but however much I appreciate WotC for opening the doors in the first place, I think it was a real crap move to close off everything from then on. And Paizo will of course do what they feel is needed in honoring that and not renaming closed content to make it usuable, but I can’t say I agree with that as I feel whatever respect WotC earned in starting OGL, they lost when they pulled back and closed off everything.

I'm inclined to agree.

Kvantum wrote:
Notice I didn't say WotC, I said former executives at WotC. There's been so much turnover at that company that you can't associate any policy with the company, just with the particular individuals who made the policy at the time. The people behind the GSL were an entirely different batch than the ones who created the OGL (AFAIK).

Former executives get cheers for the OGL, true. But I'd guess that the company itself gets the jeers for dropping it like a hot potato after a certain point.

Not that there's that much closed content that actually interests me, but there's enough to make the situation somewhat annoying.

I find it hard to be mad about it, ya I like 3.5 better then 4.0 but that is personal preference, 4.0 is not a bad game just not what I want, (I have even ran a 4.0 game and had fun converted stuff from the well of worlds, then switched to pathfinder) ya there is some close content I like and I still use. But if 3.5 did not end then we would not have the APG or all the other great stuff that is coming form Paizo, 3.5 went as far as it could, both content wise and money wise. Companies got to make money, and so they change. I for one am glad that 3.5 ended, I will miss some thing but I love the new stuff a lot and the stuff I want in my game is there.

dunno if its the place but either im going crazy or the release date got pushed back, if its true i am a sad dnd player
Vic Wertz wrote:
UpSbLiViOn wrote:
The release date for the PDF went from the 4th to the 5th.....
Yes—it should have always been Thursday the 5th—the first day of Gen Con—because that's the official release date of the print edition.

Fair enough

Vic Wertz wrote:
At this point, we're estimating it'll take through Friday to get through the preorders and subscriptions. (There will still be edge cases, like failed credit cards and other issues requiring customer service interaction, that will bleed into next week.)

AAAAAAAAH!!

Darnit all! You guys actually tried to process me last week, but my stupid credit card was lagging on showing my recent payment, so of course they started bouncing stuff. *sigh*

So now I'm pushed back to the absolute end of the queue. Ok, ok... I guess I understand that. I just hope I'll still get it this week, as I already talked to customer service about the issue last week and got things settled.

Wow, I am so excited to get my hands on this book..... it's unreal.
Shadow Lodge
The black raven wrote:
Kakarasa wrote:
Does anyone that has received the .pdf know if the spellcasting classes of the APG have added or lost any of the core spells on their spell listsfrom the playtest? Thanks!

Alchemist : no changes

Inquisitor : no changes

Summoner : many changes

The Summoner gains access to many spells earlier and gains powerful spells in his 6th-level list. He also loses several spells at varied levels to make some room. Most notably, he loses Summon Monster III and VI but gains Summon Monster VII and likely IX (typo gives Summon Monster IV as part of his 6-th level list).

Regretfully, the forum ate my carefully constructed list detailing all the changes :-(

Witch : loses several spells from her basic list

You left out Oracle.

Liberty's Edge

I was wondering how many/ names of the prestige classes in the APG?
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
CapeCodRPGer wrote:
I was wondering how many/ names of the prestige classes in the APG?

Check out today's blog!

Liberty's Edge
Kerney wrote:
You left out Oracle.

The Oracle uses the Cleric's list, just as he did in the playtest.

Liberty's Edge
Razz wrote:

Hmm, very odd choice of spells to take off the Witch list. Half of those are VERY "Witch-like". I wonder what gives!?

And the Summoner losing out on Summon Monster spells? That makes no sense. Odd.

Can anyone tell me what info they give on the guidelines for adding new spells to the spell lists?

I guess they wanted to differenciate more strongly the Witch from both the Druid and the Cleric.

And the Summoner does not really lose Summon Monster spells, but trades them for more powerful versions (IV instead of III and IX instead of VI). Also the "lost" Summon Monster spells are still available as SLA.

Edit : The Summoner's spell list has in fact reverted back to its original version in the first playtest pdf
Grand Lodge
Arevashti wrote:

But I'd guess that the company itself gets the jeers for dropping it like a hot potato after a certain point.

The certain point being was the point they realised that OGL wasn't giving WOTC an extra cent and instead giving rise to a whole new generation of competition. Then again one of the founders of OGL is also one of it's most reviled names among players after his destruction of the Living City campaign, Ryan Dancey.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
DM Wellard wrote:
GRRRRRRRRRRR..still no sign of mine I guess as usual I'm at the end of the queue

I am right there with you in the back..

Ashram wrote:
Navior wrote:
Razz wrote:

Seems SOME things aren't playtested properly.

WotC's Energy Substitution didn't change spell level, the feat slot was enough. Which is how it should be. I don't understand how one can justify a +1 spell level for making Fireball do Lightning damage instead of Fire.

It's not exactly the same as the old Energy Substitution. It gives you the choice of replacing the one type of damage for the other or of doing a mixture of both: half one, half the other.

You're mixing up Energy Substitution for Energy Admixture, which is the +4 spell level metamagic feat that builds off of whatever Energy Sub. feat you took.

Also, if this IS like the Master of Elements Archmage class ability, there's a very simple reason there's a +1 spell level adjustment on it: The ability to change a spell to use sonic energy, which not many monsters have a resistance to. Another possible reason it has a +1 price tag is because originally, Energy Substitution gave you one element per feat; this might give you all of them at once. I'll miss being able to use the ability on the fly without having to prepare spells with it, but it's nice not having to waste four feat slots.

I don’t feel that being able to switch to sonic should alone be enough to bump it to +1 spell level.

Not really happy at all on the +1 spell level for either feat (Elemental Spell or Shaping). I would rather Paizo had put all of the strict prerequisites of the Archmage from 3.5 (along sacrificing the spell slot) than to make them +1 spell level.

With the +1 spell level, I am then casting (most of) my damage spells as one level higher and therefore could be taking castings of utility spells at the higher level. For example, to turn that Fireball into an Acid or SonicBall, I am taking away castings of Stoneskin, Dimension Door or the all important Greater Invisibility. Never mind I could never use the feats for my 9th level spells.

Finally, this argument is only for playing a Sorceror, which I prefer over a Wizard. With a Wizard, it’s even worse as I have to actually prepare my spells in advance with +1 level. At least I would have a choice with my Sorceror not to cast that spell.

Either way, not too happy with the +1 level. Never have been with Metamagic feats using +x spell level(s).
Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Just got to the back...

Sandpoint Traits? Frak yes! SANDPOINT TRAITS!
Grand Lodge
Matthew Morris wrote:

Just got to the back...

Sandpoint Traits? Frak yes! SANDPOINT TRAITS!

AWESOOOOOOME!!!

Liberty's Edge
graywulfe wrote:

I am becoming exceedingly jealous of my fellow subscribers who have access to their PDFs already. Still waiting for my email.... Twiddles thumbs.... time to check my email again.

:)

Graywulfe

*Does a little dance* Just got my email. Best of luck to those still waiting. I hope you all get your emails soon.

*Goes back to the job his is being paid to do*

Graywulfe
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