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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Player's Guide (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Player's Guide (OGL)
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Take your Game to the Next Level!

Explore new and uncharted depths of roleplaying with the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide! Empower your existing characters with expanded rules for all 11 Pathfinder Roleplaying Game core classes and seven core races, or build a new one from the ground up with one of six brand-new, 20-level base classes. Whether you're designing your own monstrous helpers as an enigmatic summoner, brewing up trouble with a grimy urban alchemist, or simply teaching an old rogue a new trick, this book has everything you need to make your heroes more heroic.

The Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide is a must-have companion volume to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into the new millennium.

The 336-page Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide includes:

  • Six new base classes: the monster-hunting inquisitor, the explosive alchemist, the noble cavalier, the prophecy-haunted oracle, the monster-crafting summoner, and the hex-weaving witch
  • More than a hundred innovative new feats and combat abilities for characters of all classes, including Steal, Point-Blank Master, and Bouncing Spell
  • Variant class abilities, rules subsystems, and thematic archetypes for all 11 core classes, such as the antipaladin, the hungry ghost monk, and the urban ranger
  • Hundreds of new spells and magic items, from phantasmal revenge to the Storm King's Cloud Castle
  • A wealth of fantastic equipment, such as fireblast rods and fortune-tellers' cards
  • New prestige classes like the Master Chymist and the Battle Herald
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-246-3

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Last Updated - 12/01/2010

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good

5/5 —

good addition to the collection offers good spells and feats, came in on time and I bought the non-mint and I haven't noticed any damage to it.

Players: Buy this after the Core Rulebook

5/5 —

If you own a Core Rulebook and a Bestiary, what Pathfinder book should you buy next? A campaign setting book or an adventure module would be good answers, but if you're looking for more character options, the best answer would be the Advanced Player's Guide. This was Paizo's first big player-oriented hardcover to be released after the Core Rulebook, and it's safe to say they knocked it out of the park. This book has stood the test of time and still contains fantastic options for the game even though it was released several years ago. If you're playing PFS on a budget, for example, and you have to be choosy with what books or PDFs you buy, start with the Advanced Player's Guide. You'll find enough options in there to keep you busy for years.

What follows is a chapter-by-chapter review. Do keep in mind that this book pre-dates the publication of classes like the magus, vigilante, kineticist, etc., so you won't find options directly designed for them. In addition, because it's part of the RPG line, it does not contain Golarion-specific flavour (though everything in here is compatible with the setting). As a whole, I would classify the art as in the lower-middle spectrum of what Paizo can do, with a lot of reused mediocre stuff from earlier books. The layout as a whole, however, is quite nice.

Chapter 1 (Races): After an Introduction that's really just an expanded table of contents, Chapter 1 expands the options available for Core races (those found in the Core Rulebook). For each race, a sentence or two describes how each of the Core classes and the so-called Base classes (those found later in this book) are represented within the culture. I found this section was fairly generic and tried too hard to make it sound like each class was common in each race, so there wasn't anything that seemed special. Next up are alternative racial traits for the Core races. These are important in that they allow a player to swap out one of the special features of a race (like an elf's automatic familiarity with elven weapons, or a gnome's resistance to illusion) for a different special feature. In other words, it's a good way to customize your PC just a little more and ensure that not all dwarfs are skilled at stonework, for example. Last, this chapter presents new favoured class options for each of the Core races: instead of the normal rule that a new level in a favoured class provides 1 hit point or 1 skill point, these new options allow a particular race to get something different. For example, a gnome with the favoured class of bard could get an extra round of bardic performance each day, or a half-orc with the favoured class of fighter could get an additional +2 to stabilization rolls when dying. Note that each race only has new favoured class options for handful of classes (not all of them). Unlike the alternate racial traits, I wasn't particularly impressed with the flavour or thought given to the new favoured class options: many of them didn't seem to have any particular tie to the race. Half-orcs, for example, can increase their bomb damage if their favoured class is alchemist, while human paladins can start to get energy resistance--there's nothing in the write-up of these races that make these bonuses seem natural or logical. From an optimization perspective, these new favoured class options are quite useful--I just wish they were better from a storytelling perspective.

Chapter 2 (Classes): One of the most important things that the Advanced Player's Guide brings to Pathfinder is the introduction of six new "Base" classes: the Alchemist, Cavalier, Inquisitor, Oracle, Summoner, and Witch. I don't have a lot of space to review each one, so I'll try to be concise.

The Alchemist fills a real niche in the game, is quite versatile, and would be really fun to play. They get special abilities to rapidly make alchemical items (of course), but also can manufacture bombs, cast magic spells (in the form of drinkable "elixirs"), and temporarily "hulk out" by drinking a "mutagen." As a GM, my only concern is the fact that the bombs resolve against Touch AC, so in games I've run the alchemist PC hardly ever misses and does substantial amounts of damage as an area effect. I also think that perhaps the mutagen feature should have been reserved for a specific "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" archetype, as I don't thik it fits well as part of the basic assumption of alchemists.

The Cavalier could probably have been better represented as a Fighter archetype. Cavaliers are mounted knights who swear an oath to follow the precepts of a particular order. Different orders provide different bonuses, Cavalier's mounts are hardier than normal, and the class provides PCs and their allies with some limited use of teamwork feats (discussed below). As written, the class is fairly bland, and I don't think it fills a hole in what could be covered well by other classes. You also see Cavaliers relatively rarely in gameplay because, frankly, they're just inferior to other builds (and I should know, because I've played one for a couple of years now!).

The Inquisitor is one of those classes I'm a bit torn about. The idea is that they're specialists in rooting out corruption and heresy within their faith, which is thematically really cool: but I don't see how that fits naturally with the activities of the vast majority of adventuring parties in the game. The class is conceptually unique and has a lot of cool and useful abilities, some of which seem to fit from a flavour perspective (like Bane) but others that just seem kind of random (like Monster Lore and Cunning Initiative).

The Oracle is another interesting class that I'm unsure about conceptually. Mechanically, they're spontaneous divine spellcasters who don't worship deities per se but instead strive to unravel a particular "mystery." As they advance in level, they get "revelations" which are special powers. Some of the revelations are really cool, and the mysteries are very flavourful. I like the class better after reading it carefully, though I'm still not sure about the name of the class (since divination isn't the focus) nor about the vague relationship they have to deities. They are a divine spellcasting class that is much simpler to play than clerics (though less effective), and thus potentially a good choice for new players.

The Summoner as presented in this book is infamous as the most overpowered class in all of Pathfinder, to the point where most GMs and PFS disallow it. "Unchained" Summoners (as they're usually called in contradistinction to a different type from another book) are, of course, really good at summoning lots of monsters, which is annoying for everyone at the table because it dramatically slows down gameplay. But more problematically, each Summoner gets an "eidolon" which is a bit like a completely customizable and incredibly powerful monstrous animal companion. If you have an Unchained Summoner, you may as well be playing a solo campaign because you probably don't need anyone else in the party to win most encounters. I'm not sure how the Unchained Summoner ever made it through playtesting, but it stands as an example that even great companies like Paizo can make major mistakes.

The Witch is a full (up to 9th level spells) spellcasting class that receives special powers called hexes. Some of the hexes are really flavourful and cool, and the concept of the class as a whole is one I really like. There are two things about the class I'm not a fan of: first, familiars are a major part of the class and as both a player and a GM I find familiars really annoying to deal with (because they rarely contribute positively to a play experience); second, each witch receives bonus spells depending on what "patron" they choose, but the patrons are just abstract concepts (like "Agility" or "Water") and have no substance or flavour to them, and no real potential for story development. I think it was a bland and almost forgettable way of implementing a really cool idea (mysterious forces granting a character power in exchange for . . .?). I should also note that one of the witch's hexes, Slumber, has proven overpowered and problematic at a lot of tables.

So as a whole, I think the Alchemist is a real success, while Witches, Oracles, and Inquisitors are solid additions to the game. The Cavalier is mostly forgotten, while the Summoner is a good example of what not to do in terms of game design.

The Classes chapter then continues by offering each of the Core classes something special, often in the form of "archetypes." If you don't already know, archetypes are packages of abilities that swap out some of the features of a class in exchange for other features, and they've become an important part of most builds for experienced players. Here's a summary of what each Core class gets.

1) Barbarians receive a lot of cool new options for rage powers (though, oddly, a lot of them relate to consuming alcohol) and several archetypes that don't change a lot of class features but that are quite good;

2) Bards get some fantastic and (sometimes quite dramatic) archetypes, at least as written--but admittedly, I don't hear about them being played very often;

3) Clerics receive the introduction of "subdomains", which are, as the name indicates, "branch" domains. A cleric with the Sun domain, for example, could now choose the replacement special power and domain spells of the Light subdomain. It's a way to allow the further customization of clerics since they don't have a lot of class features to trade out for archetypes;

4) Druids get archetypes that are all terrain-based and quite formulaic, along with a handful of "animal shaman" archetypes that have the same essential ability to gain an aspect of a particular animal's powers.

5) Fighters get a lot of archetypes, most of which are poor in terms of flavour ("Archer" or "Two-Handed Fighter") but some that are quite nutritious, as it were, to aiding particular combat styles;

6) Monks get a lot of archetypes, most of which are pretty bland but some, like the Zen Archer, the Monk of the Four Winds' Slow Time ability, and the Monk of the Healing Hand's capstone power are pretty cool;

7) Paladins get archetypes that are okay, but there's some clunky features for the Divine Defender and Sacred Servant. There's also the introduction of the Antipaladin (formally an "Alternate" Class) which I know a lot of people demanded but I'm just not a fan of the concept because I think it devalues the essential goodness of the Paladin idea;

8) Rangers get new archetypes and some new combat styles. I really like the Guide archetype, as the Terrain Bond feature seems much truer to the niche that rangers should fill as wilderness experts. The Infiltrator and Skirmisher archetypes also get some cool stuff;

9) Rogues receive 30 new rogue talents and 12 new advanced rogue talents to choose from, though most are of the "1/day, roll two d20s and take the better" on a specific skill check type. I like the Fast Getaway talent (allowing a rogue to sneak attack and then withdraw), and imagine it would keep a lot of rogues alive. The class also receives several archetypes, but most are pretty thin and forgettable (though the Cutpurse could be used to devastating effect depending on GM discretion);

10) Sorcerers receive 10 new bloodlines, and although I'm not an expert on the class, they look useful and meaningful;

11) Wizards get new elemental schools to specialize in, and some of the special powers look like a lot of fun (like the Air school's Cyclone power or the Water school's Wave power). There's also the introduction of "Focused Arcane Schools" which you can think of as "super specialization" in a particular aspect of a School in order to gain replacement powers.

Whew! A lot of stuff in that chapter. Moving on.

Chapter 3 (Feats) contains a *lot* of new feats. The summary table which gives a one-line description of each one fills four pages. Many of the new feats are standalone things, but others can be grouped by type: several give an additional use of class features ("Extra Rage Power", "Extra Rogue Talent", etc.), make it easier to use the new combat maneuvers introduced at the end of the book, create new metamagic options for spellcasting (with "Dazing Spell" responsible for a lot frustration to GMs), etc. A new type of feat, Teamwork Feats, are introduced for the first time in this chapter. The idea with Teamwork Feats is that if two PCs (or allied NPCs) have the same feat, they both get bonuses in particular situations: for example, if two PCs have the "Allied Spellcaster" teamwork feat, they each get a +2 bonus on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. I do like the concept, but the proven problem is that it's often hard to get other players at the table to have their PCs take the same one that you're taking, and the bonuses provided by the feats aren't so amazing that groups are inclined to carefully coordinate.

Chapter 4 (Equipment) contains about 25 new weapons (including some of those fun, weird polearms D&D veterans will recognize), a handful of new types of armor, a lot of new pieces of adventuring gear, and several new alchemical items. There's not a lot here that's earth-shattering, though some items, such as Weapon Blanch, have become de rigeur for every smart adventurer. It would have been nice if more of the equipment was illustrated, and that better choices were made on what was essential to illustrate: I know what an hourglass looks like, for example, and don't need a picture, but seeing what a "light detector" looks like would have been interesting.

Chapter 5 (Spells) has 57 pages of options for spellcasters of every stripe. Reading through, I noticed a surprising number of cool Paladin spells, a lot of Bard "finale" spells (that are cast and instantly end bardic performance), and a lot of ninth level spells. Some of the spells I really liked include Blaze of Glory, Fire Snake, and Hero's Defiance, and the picture of Cacophonous Call on p. 209 is hilarious. Every spellcaster is bound to find something useful, but there are some problematic ones introduced in this chapter, like the Create Pit line, that GMs need to be aware of.

Chapter 6 (Prestige Classes) introduces eight new options that PCs could, but probably won't, strive for. Pathfinder long had a reputation for not making much of the prestige class concept, and that's only recently begun to change. Really fast verdicts: 1) Battle Herald: Love the concept, but everything is tied off an "Inspiring Command" bonus which just progresses too slowly, making the entire prestige class weak; 2) Holy Vindicator: no design room for the concept, and the abilities don't help; 3) Horizon Walker: the bonuses in some terrains are fantastic and in others completely "meh"; 4) Master Chymist: Classic Jekyll & Hyde alchemist; 5) Master Spy: I liked this more than I thought I would, and could see it used for a lot of NPCs or maybe a PC (in just the right campaign). Gets clever and useful foils to most means of detection, but abilities come on line much later than they should for most adventures; 6) Rage prophet: Not impressive. 7) Stalwart Defender: Good, cool abilities that fit the theme, and a good capstone power.

Chapter 7 (Magic Items) has something of everything: magic weapons, armor, wondrous items, minor and major artifacts, etc. The new metamagic rods are really powerful considering the price, the new staves are pretty boring, and there's a lot of stuff geared specifically for the new classes, which makes sense. If you've dumped Strength and are relying on Muleback Cords, you've got this book to thank. My only regret is that the chapter introduces so many fun cursed magic items, and I hardly ever get an opportunity to use any in a game.

Chapter 8 (New Rules) is an important chapter containing three new concepts: additional combat maneuvers, hero points, and traits. [I'm almost done, but have run out of space here. The end of the review can be found at: http://jhaeman.blogspot.com.au/2017/07/advanced-players-guide-rpg.html]

A very awesome book

5/5 —

this expands almost perfectly on what the core is.

They add some very solid and original class ideas.

This a must buy for some that like pathfinder

5/5 —

The Shinning Example of What Pathfinder Books Should Be

5/5 —

The Advanced Player's Guide (APG) is to this day one the best books for Pathfinder. It introduces a number of (now iconic) classes unique to the system.

The overall balance of the book is amazing. Alchemist and Inquisitor are probably the two most well-balanced classes in the game, and the latter is what I consider to be the best designed one in all of Pathfinder.

We get a few alternate rules that are pretty cool, such as word casting and character traits. We even get new combat maneuvers added to the fold!

The possibilities of character creation allowed by this book greatly increases the variety and fun of Pathfinder. If you can only buy a single expansion book, buy this one.

The book is not perfect, of course. The Summoner class (and even more so, its archetypes) would really benefit from clearer wording. It's sad to see cool ideas such as word casting being completely abandoned after this...

Still, those are minor problems in comparison to all the good stuff that is included in the APG, and the book still deserves its 5-star rating.

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Dark Archive

Is this a "Friday after 000 Pacific" or a "Friday morning when normal people get to the office" for the beta playtest?

Also, first on the page, woot!
Dark Archive
Mikhaila Burnett wrote:

Is this a "Friday after 000 Pacific" or a "Friday morning when normal people get to the office" for the beta playtest?

Also, first on the page, woot!

i was wondering the same thing...the blog is usually up by 1:00 am here, but here it is 2:57 am and im still waiting out till 3:00 am before i hit the hay.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4

...so... back to talking about the Advanced Player Guide. I hope that the section on the fighter adds more weapon groups for the Weapon Training class ability. The groups are sectioned by weapon type now, but I would like to see some by culture/race; caveman weapon group, Native American weapon group, nobility weapon group, elven, ect… Yes the groups by weapon type makes sense because you should be able to use similar weapons with the same basic forms and movements; but I believe doing weapon groups by culture can allude to a character’s background and training during world travels.
On the same note, but not really, has Pathfinder stats for the harpoon been released somewhere?
Liberty's Edge
voska66 wrote:


Not to go off-topic, but I still have yet to see this super-sized 4E fan base everyone keeps talking about. Of the dozens of gamers I have met in the metropolitan area here in STL, a vast majority despise 4E and the various gaming shops I go to here either have no D&D games running because people gave up on WotC, have both a 4E and a 3.5e game running, or just non-4E D&D games running.

I meant that their is a large fanbase in general as compared to other rpgs. You can pretend that 4E is not popular and the fans outrank other rpgs but they do.

voska66 wrote:


Meanwhile, the same folks stick with 3.5E or have signed onto Pathfinder with wild abandon. So I think it's safe to say Paizo has their fanbase as large as 4E (and I dare not say larger than 4E, only because I believe the ones that didn't go with Pathfinder just decided to stick with 3.5e or some earlier edition to do what WotC failed to do...which was remember their roots).

D&D and the number of it's fans are large. Maybe not in your neck of the woods but in general they outnumber most other rpg fans. The only other fanbase as large is White wolf Fans. In terms of comparison not as large as 4E not even close imo. As for fans going over to Pathfinder with "wild abandon" I do not think so at all. With many considering that Paizo did not implement enough change and with the economy being what is I think fans are much less inclined to buy something that is so similiar to 3.5. I have fans of 3.5 in my gaming circle that really dislike 4E but if forced to choose would rather buy 4E because it is different game. They feel that Paizo did not change enough with Pathfinder and for the most part are satosified with 3.5. In my experience a cosumer would rather buy a new product then just a variation of an older product.

To me 3.5 is a niche market. A very successful nice market but a niche market nonetheless. You had that the same thing happen whem 3.0 came out. Games of 2E and 1E edition just became less and less. You stil have fans who play these older editions just not im the same numbers before 3E was released.

Your quoting the wrong person. I didn't post those things.

All I can say about 4E is I know no one who plays it. I can't find a single person interested in it and if I ask I get told how terrible a game 4E is. I don't see a lot of Pathfinder either but it is showing up more and more these days. I suspect it has to do with how hard it is to get the core books here. I still haven't got mine. I've got the APs, Bestiary, and Glorian setting but still waiting for the core book with no hint when it will ship.

There are a lot of 3.5 games going though but the big one these days seem to be White Wolf specifically Vampire. I blame that on the Twilight movies though.
Liberty's Edge

Sorry abouty that Voska 66.

Razz wrote:


Not to go off-topic, but I still have yet to see this super-sized 4E fan base everyone keeps talking about. Of the dozens of gamers I have met in the metropolitan area here in STL, a vast majority despise 4E and the various gaming shops I go to here either have no D&D games running because people gave up on WotC, have both a 4E and a 3.5e game running, or just non-4E D&D games running.

I meant that their is a large fanbase in general as compared to other rpgs. You can pretend that 4E is not popular and the fans outrank other rpgs but they do.

Razz wrote:


Meanwhile, the same folks stick with 3.5E or have signed onto Pathfinder with wild abandon. So I think it's safe to say Paizo has their fanbase as large as 4E (and I dare not say larger than 4E, only because I believe the ones that didn't go with Pathfinder just decided to stick with 3.5e or some earlier edition to do what WotC failed to do...which was remember their roots). [

D&D and the number of it's fans are large. Maybe not in your neck of the woods but in general they outnumber most other rpg fans. The only other fanbase as large is White wolf Fans. In terms of comparison not as large as 4E not even close imo. As for fans going over to Pathfinder with "wild abandon" I do not think so at all. With many considering that Paizo did not implement enough change and with the economy being what is I think fans are much less inclined to buy something that is so similiar to 3.5. I have fans of 3.5 in my gaming circle that really dislike 4E but if forced to choose would rather buy 4E because it is different game. They feel that Paizo did not change enough with Pathfinder and for the most part are satosified with 3.5. In my experience a cosumer would rather buy a new product then just a variation of an older product.

To me 3.5 is a niche market. A very successful nice market but a niche market nonetheless. You had that the same thing happen whem 3.0 came out. Games of 2E and 1E edition just became less and less. You stil have fans who play these older editions just not im the same numbers before 3E was released. I really wish some gamers woulld not underestimate the popularity of D&D in general. How can you even say that Pathfinder fans equal the 4E fans when Pathfinder has been out for what 3 months. Tell me that in another 6 months or a year from now. Then we can better guage how popular or large the fanbase truly is.

Sounds exciting! I always felt D&D needed a workable witch class.
Liberty's Edge

Just downloaded the Cavaliar and Oracle PDF cannot wait to read it!

Could really care less about Epic Classes as I have yet to play a character to such levels...hell, I dont get much use out of the Prestige Classes, so those arent a big deal for me either

My primary interest is in Psionics, so as long as those get some form of Pathfinder treatment I'll be happy
Liberty's Edge
darth_borehd wrote:
Sounds exciting! I always felt D&D needed a workable witch class.

Here is a link to a book from Green Ronin on witches. http://shortify.com/9584 . Hope it helps.

Just downloaded and reviewed the playtest Cavalier and Oracle classes, and have to say I really like the Oracle. It could suit my own campaign well, as I have been working with one of my players to produce a divine version of sorceror loosely based off an alternate divine class in one of you-know-who-and-shall-remain-nameless' "splatbooks". We were creating "devotions" and assigning powers much as the sorceror gets powers and spells through bloodlines, but I really didn't want to simply create a new type of sorceror that casts divine magic instead of arcane. The Oracle is a much-welcome alternate, IMO, and something I will definitely run by my player, but one thing is lacking to sway him; his Chosen One gets his powers from the deities of Knowledge, and there is currently no such focus for the Oracle. Also, if would be nice to see foci regarding Artifice, Beasts (or Nature in general), Life (counterpoint to Bones, maybe call it Spirit?), Magic, and possibly something dealing with the outer planes (an Oracle with angelic or demonic ties, perhaps?).
While I'm sure once the ball gets rolling, players and DMs can come up with their own foci to suit their game realms, I think there should be as many sample foci for the class as there are bloodlines for the sorceror. Also, another possible curse: mute. Some "classical" oracles in stories and film are mute and can only pass along their "visions" through pictures and charades.

As for the cavalier, I'm still a bit leery about that class, but I've never really been that fond of the concept. Still, I'm willing to give it a chance. I might change my opinion upon seeing it in play.

Wayne Reynolds is such an overrated artist, IMO. i'd much rather see them get Ron Spencer to do the majority of the artwork for paizo products.

as for the Advanced player's guide, i'd rather see psionics and epic material - both of which fall in the "advanced" category IMO - than 6 new core classes (5 of which are casters of some sort - at least give us some more non-caster options). but eventually i'll pick it up for the new feats and to see if they include any decent prestige classes(remakes or original), or alternate class features for the original core classes.

as excited as i was to be part of the beta playtest for the rpg, the initial information released about the Advanced player's guide hasn't gotten me as geeked, but i'll wait until more info is revealed b4 making my final judgement.
memorax wrote:
darth_borehd wrote:
Sounds exciting! I always felt D&D needed a workable witch class.
Here is a link to a book from Green Ronin on witches. http://shortify.com/9584 . Hope it helps.

Also the 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming book Paths of Power, which is available for pre-order now right here on Paizo.com

Grand Lodge

I was reading thru the playtest version of thwe Oracle and there is some confusing language. On page 9 of the pdf it says that Oracles' with high Charisma sciores gets bonus spells, but later on that page it seems to disagree with that saying its a bonus in spells being cast per day. It is not easy to go thru this anbd almost like reading a lawyer's legal jargon. This may need to be revised in the hard copy.
Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer
Michael Fox 706 wrote:
I was reading thru the playtest version of thwe Oracle and there is some confusing language.

You'll want to post playtest feedback in the playtest forum so that it can be considered.

Awwww.... no fighter/caster class? Dang... I was really hoping for a core class Fighter/Mage type. Multiclassing just doesn't quite have the same feel to it.
Dark Archive
Maveric28 wrote:
Awwww.... no fighter/caster class? Dang... I was really hoping for a core class Fighter/Mage type. Multiclassing just doesn't quite have the same feel to it.

Personally, I never liked the "gish" classes, because I see them better modeled via Prestige Classes (Eldritch Knight or Arcane Archer are pretty good choices in my books). Besides, it's to end up with something that makes fighter/wizards a totally suboptimal choice. Ergo, I'm very happy if Paizo stays away from making base classes for multiclass combinations.

So this book is only going to contain new classes/spells/feats? Or is it going to include more?
Asgetrion wrote:
Maveric28 wrote:
Awwww.... no fighter/caster class? Dang... I was really hoping for a core class Fighter/Mage type. Multiclassing just doesn't quite have the same feel to it.
Personally, I never liked the "gish" classes, because I see them better modeled via Prestige Classes (Eldritch Knight or Arcane Archer are pretty good choices in my books). Besides, it's to end up with something that makes fighter/wizards a totally suboptimal choice. Ergo, I'm very happy if Paizo stays away from making base classes for multiclass combinations.

I agree on this as well. Though I believe that certain classes do go well together.... but then that is why some prestige classes require multiclassing.

I echo the above guy in regards to WARs artwork, I do wish you had some of Diterlizzis work though I remember his Planescapre stuff & it was awesome.

I do have a question though; I'm reading about the new classes in the APG, what about Prestige Classes (PrCS)? I'd love to see your version of the Blackguard... among others.

So I'm really new to the website, so I apologize in advance if I ask a question that is answered in big bold letters at the top of a page somewhere else, I'm still getting a feel for the place.

I absolutely love Pathfinder, and my group has switched to it with gleeful exuberance. We all loved 3.5, tried 4.0 and were unimpressed, and felt happy that someone was continuing to rework and refine the rules we knew and loved.

But most of us are putting ourselves through college, and don't have the money to throw away on a whole new library. in fact one of the things that drew us to Pathfinder was it's compatibility and that 95% of the information we needed was all in one giant book.

My point is that it is unclear wether this book is an addition to the current Core Rulebook, (similar to the Players Handbook 2.0 from WotC kind of thing) or a replacement for it (like AD&D was to classic DnD). We are just getting to the point were most of the people in my group have their own copy of the current Core Rulebook, and if they find out that a bunch of the rules and information in the books they JUST dropped money on will be replaced with new stuff when this book comes out, It's going to depress a lot of people.

I love a continually growing and evolving game, thats how they stay fresh and work out problems, but if there are going to be rules clashes between people still using the CR and the ones who have managed to get a copy of APG, that will be really aggravating.

(Edited by Sunos to fix the misunderstanding mentioned in the following post)

As a matter of fact, Sunos, you might be confused by the titles of books :
The Player's Handbook is the main core book of Dungeons & Dragons.
The Core Rulebook is the main book of Pathfinder. And it is a guide for both players and game masters.

This new book will be an extension for players, presenting more options for their characters.

The same way there will be in may another book destined to game masters, the Game Mastery Guide.

So no, this Advanced Player's Guide is not made to replace the Core Rulebook, just to complement it, as a suppplement.

By the way, welcome on the Paizo messageboards :)
The Exchange
Sunos wrote:

So I'm really new to the website, so I apologize in advance if I ask a question that is answered in big bold letters at the top of a page somewhere else, I'm still getting a feel for the place.

I absolutely love Pathfinder, and my group has switched to it with gleeful exuberance. We all loved 3.5, tried 4.0 and were unimpressed, and felt happy that someone was continuing to rework and refine the rules we knew and loved.

But most of us are putting ourselves through college, and don't have the money to throw away on a whole new library. in fact one of the things that drew us to Pathfinder was it's compatibility and that 95% of the information we needed was all in one giant book.

My point is that it is unclear wether this book is an addition to the current Players Guide, (a Players Handbook 2.0 kind of thing) or a replacement for it. We are just getting to the point were most of the people in my group have their own copy of the current Players Guide, and if they find out that a bunch of the rules and information in the books they JUST dropped money on will be replaced with new stuff when this book comes out, It's going to depress a lot of people.

I love a continually growing and evolving game, thats how they stay fresh and work out problems, but if there are going to be rules clashes between people still using the PG and the ones who have managed to get a copy of APG, that will be really aggravating.

Think of it as a Player's Handbook 2 or one of the Complete series from 3.5.

It just adds some new baseclasses, feats and other stuff to the game and is not a replacement for the original book.
Seldriss wrote:

As a matter of fact, Sunos, you might be confused by the titles of books :

The Player's Handbook is the main core book of Dungeons & Dragons.
The Core Rulebook is the main book of Pathfinder. And it is a guide for both players and game masters.

Ah yes, I did misspeak. Where ever I said "Players Guide" I meant the Core Rulebook, which is, as you guessed, a habit left over from DnD 3.5. Just replace that phrase with Core Rulebook and you'll get the question I meant to ask.

Seldriss wrote:

This new book will be an extension for players, presenting more options for their characters.

The same way there will be in may another book destined to game masters, the Game Mastery Guide.

So no, this Advanced Player's Guide is not made to replace the Core Rulebook, just to complement it, as a suppplement.

Fake Healer wrote:

Think of it as a Player's Handbook 2 or one of the Complete series from 3.5.

It just adds some new baseclasses, feats and other stuff to the game and is not a replacement for the original book.

Thank you to both of you, this is exactly what I wanted to know, and exactly the answer I was hoping to hear. ^^

Seldriss wrote:
By the way, welcome on the Paizo messageboards :)

Thank you very much! A pleasure to be here. ^^

Will the expanded rules cover epic play at all?
Caim01 wrote:
Will the expanded rules cover epic play at all?

As far as we know, not at all. Paizo has yet to tackle epic play and when they do they have said more of less it's a whole new system not using the 3.0/3.5 rules at all for it.

Anyone know when and if Paizo will be putting out a psionics rule set for Pathfinder? Or is that not planned?
Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy
PMSchulz wrote:
Anyone know when and if Paizo will be putting out a psionics rule set for Pathfinder? Or is that not planned?

It has not been formally announced, but it has been stated several times that there will most likely be psionics, epic, monstrous PC, Asian adventures, etc. support down the road.

It has also been stated it very unlikely be the 3.5 ruleset upgraded, but something new when they get to it.
Shadow Lodge
james knowles wrote:
Wayne Reynolds is such an overrated artist, IMO.

Just want to say I STRONGLY, and respectfully, disagree with you on this. He is FAR and AWAY my favorite artist that Paizo contracts. More WAR please.

(employs? conscripts? not sure the word im looking for here, something more eloquent than "uses")
Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Will there be any new PrCs in this book? I've skimmed this thread and couldn't find an answer, so apologies if this is a repeated question.
Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
Jam412 wrote:
Will there be any new PrCs in this book? I've skimmed this thread and couldn't find an answer, so apologies if this is a repeated question.

Yes, there will be PrC's.

Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Jason Nelson wrote:
Jam412 wrote:
Will there be any new PrCs in this book? I've skimmed this thread and couldn't find an answer, so apologies if this is a repeated question.
Yes, there will be PrC's.

Thanks Jason. Judging by your short answer, I'm assuming that you guys haven't announced which ones they'll be.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
Jam412 wrote:
Jason Nelson wrote:
Jam412 wrote:
Will there be any new PrCs in this book? I've skimmed this thread and couldn't find an answer, so apologies if this is a repeated question.
Yes, there will be PrC's.
Thanks Jason. Judging by your short answer, I'm assuming that you guys haven't announced which ones they'll be.

Natural 20 on your Perception check. :)

Damn damn damn, I just thought of something at work today about the Alchemist but the playtests had ended last week already.

I was going to mention if another set of abilities for the Alchemist would be POISONS! What kind of alchemist would it be if it didn't know to craft together poisons. It works with chemicals of all types, fictional, nonfictional, magical, mundane. Poisons can be another method of its attacks.

Well...maybe as a "alchemist prestige class" or set of feats or something probably. But it'd be sweet. Abilities to craft poisons, deliver poisons, increase the DCs, etc.

I see it has some poisons abilities like resistance and applying it quicker, but nothing involved in creating them or diversifying them and their uses.

Just a thought (that came too late it seems).
Paizo Employee Creative Director

Although the playtest is over... the classes are still in development for some time. We're still looking at these boards and still absorbing ideas, but it's just moved on from public visibility mode to the final batch of adjustments.

Anyway... alchemists do have some poison-related powers already. And keep in mind the fact that these 6 base classes are only a fraction of the whole book; there's LOTS of other stuff in there. Some of which will actually be stuff for these new 6 classes as well as stuff for the core 11.
James Jacobs wrote:

Although the playtest is over... the classes are still in development for some time. We're still looking at these boards and still absorbing ideas, but it's just moved on from public visibility mode to the final batch of adjustments.

Anyway... alchemists do have some poison-related powers already. And keep in mind the fact that these 6 base classes are only a fraction of the whole book; there's LOTS of other stuff in there. Some of which will actually be stuff for these new 6 classes as well as stuff for the core 11.

So if I want to add some thoughts on the oracle, where may I post them?

spoiler:

Eric wanted some feedback on spell list and I didn't post my toughts on the Wind and Water Mysteries.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Post away. Just do so with the knowledge that we might not see the post and we are VERY unlikely to provide feedback since the playtest is over.
James Jacobs wrote:
Post away. Just do so with the knowledge that we might not see the post and we are VERY unlikely to provide feedback since the playtest is over.

Cool.

Dark Archive

James, perhaps this is not best place to ask this question, but I'm gonna do it anyway: Will Paizo at some point publish some rules on creating gestalt characters?
Paizo Employee Creative Director
nightflier wrote:
James, perhaps this is not best place to ask this question, but I'm gonna do it anyway: Will Paizo at some point publish some rules on creating gestalt characters?

We have no plans to do so for now; such a system would almost certainly have to be in the same context as it appeared in 3.5; as part of a book of alternate/experimental rules.

For now, though, won't the current rules for gestalt characters in Unearthed Arcana work?
James Jacobs wrote:
For now, though, won't the current rules for gestalt characters in Unearthed Arcana work?

They've worked for me in my 3-man RotRL game. :)

Dark Archive
James Jacobs wrote:
nightflier wrote:
James, perhaps this is not best place to ask this question, but I'm gonna do it anyway: Will Paizo at some point publish some rules on creating gestalt characters?

We have no plans to do so for now; such a system would almost certainly have to be in the same context as it appeared in 3.5; as part of a book of alternate/experimental rules.

For now, though, won't the current rules for gestalt characters in Unearthed Arcana work?

Sure, they work rather well and most of my games are gestalt. I just tend to think that Paizo generally improves the rules, so I hoped for a alternative rulebook published by you guys.

Alright Eric. Here are the last two I promised you.

Waves spoiler:

Waves

Class Skills: She adds Acrobatics, Escape Artist, Knowledge (nature), and Swim to her list of class skills. Great skills that all fit the concept.

Bonus Spells, Edit:
1. Obscuring mist– great utility spell. Saved our party from TPK more than once. Great spell when you have Water Sight- Good even at higher levels.
2. chill metal – Fits the concept. At lover levels this might be a good spell, but this spell becomes obsolete very, very quickly. I would rahter have Resist Energy.
3. water breathing – A good solid utility spell that also fits the concept. You won’t use it all the time, but when you need it your allies will be please you have it on your list.
4. Wall of Ice - A nice utility spell that fits the concept. I on the other hand would prefer freedom of movement. FoM and water breathing is a nice combination if you and your allies are going to fight under water. Another option would be Ice Storm.
5. Baleful Polymorph – A really great spell, But you have Punitive Transformation. I would change this spell to something else, perhaps Ice Storm or Cone of Cold. Better yet remove the Punitive Transformation revelation. It’s a bit too good.
6. Transmute rock to mud – Highly situational spell. Not one of my favorite spells. I Can’t say I have ever seen this spell used. I would rahter have Antilife Shell or Banishment or even Greater dispel Magic
7. Freezing sphere – A great spell that fits the concept.
8. Polar ray – A great spell that fits the concept.
9. Shapechange (water subtype only) - Great spell that fits the concept, but do you need it when you have Water Form? The water subtype only limitation makes this more or less the same as Water Form. I would remove the water subtype only limitation or change it to: “Restriction: may not choose fire subtype” or "Water Subtype and Dragon only -White or Silver.

Conclusion spells:
A really great spell list that still might need some tweaking. I would rather have Resist Energy than Chill Metal and perhaps give waves a different 6:th level spell. The 5:th level spell and Punitive Transformation are overlapping. Shapechange and Water Form are also overlapping some what, but Shapechange is probably bette.

Revelations:
Blizzard (Su): Good solid ability. Damage and utility. Very nice.

Fluid Nature (Ex): Very good ability. Dodge as a free feat is just great.

Fluid Travel (Su): Great ability. You still need freedom of movement so I would like to have that spell the 4:th bonus spell.

Freezing Spells (Su): Nice but not very useful unless there are new cleric spells in the Advanced Player's Guide.

Ice Armor (Su): I like this ability, but the AC bonus is perhaps just a little bit too low.

Icy Skin (Ex): Nice solid ability. True you have Resist Energy and that is more powerful, but this is always on.

Punitive Transformation (Su): Very powerful and a fantastic ability. “use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier”? Isn’t this too good?
This ability makes Baleful Polymorph as a bonus spell redundant.

Water Form (Su): Very nice. Especially with Ice Armor and Icy Skin. I guess this ability needs a nerf. Duration is 1 hour/level is too good.

Water Sight (Su): Really great ability that fits the concept. Good a high levels and at low levels. Great with obscuring mist

Wintry Touch (Su): Good solid ability.

Final Revelation: I don’t like this one, but you already know this.

Conclusion Waves This is one of my favourite Mysteries. Waves, Heavens, Lore, and Wind are probably the mysteries that interest me the most. I think waves is almost perfect. It needs some minor fixes then its ready to go.

Wind spoiler:

Wind

Class Skills: An oracle with the wind mystery adds Acrobatics, Escape Artist, Fly, and Stealth to her list of class skills. Great selection of skills that fit the concept.

I’ve written a lot about this Mystery in other thread. I love this Mystery and Lore, but both need a good overhaul (so does Stone and Nature).

Bonus Spells, edit:
1. Shield – Great spell that really fits the concept. What can I say. Really, Really good. Even greater if you going for a archer build or using a two handed weapon.
2. Gust of wind – good solid utility spell, but this one can be used as a scroll. I rather have Resist Energy.
3. Levitate – A nice utility spell, but situational. Get it as a scroll or on a wand. I rather have Haste, Call Lightning or Lightning Bolt. Lightning Bolt is more powerful but Call Lightning fits the concept better.
4. Freedom of movement – Very good spell. Good at higher levels too.
5. Control winds – A utility spell that you won’t use that often if ever. It’s also very hard to use. Can’t use it in a dungeon or in a building can you? There isn’t much wind to manipulate in a house or in a dungeon. I would rather have overland flight as a 5:th level spell. Also you have gust of wind, you don’t need this.
6. Overland flight – A good spell, but not as 6:th level spell and you do have Heaven get this as a 5-th level spell so should wind. I would love to see Chain Lightning instead. I would really fit the concept and would help out. Another option would be a new spell. Something like “Greater haste” granting the same bonus as Haste but more and an extra move. Or why not just give her wind walk.
7. Control weather - A utility spell that you won’t use that often if ever. Again give her a new spell, something like Greater haste or Forcecage, Greater Teleport, Ethereal Jaunt, Elemental Body IV.
8. Whirlwind – A nice utility spell that fits the concept. Not a damage spell, but more of a battle field control spell.
9. Storm of vengeance – A very powerful spell, but a bit hard to use.

Conclusion spells: I would mind replacing a lot of spells here. 3:rd, 5:th. 6:th and 7:th.

Revelations:
Air Barrier (Ex): I like this ability, but the AC bonus is perhaps just a little bit too low. But a great ability if you’re going for a dex build. ...and you probably are.

Gaseous Form (Su): Very nice even if Gaseous Form got nerfed in 3.x and stayed that way. But a nice utility ability.

Invisibility (Su): Really great. This and Gaseous Form makes a nice combo.

Lightning Breath (Su): Good solid damage ability without being too good.

Spark Skin (Ex): Nice solid ability. True you have Resist Energy and that is more powerful, but this is always on.

Thunderburst (Ex): A good damage ability. Unlike the flames abilities you can’t protect your allies from the damage since Resist Energy doesn’t protect from bludgeoning damage. But not a big problem.

Touch of Electricity (Su): Really good and fits the concept. I hope “any weapon that you wield is treated as a shock weapon” also include range weapons.

Vortex Spells (Ex): Not very good. A) How many attack spells do you have? B) How often do you get to score a critical hit with one of them? C) If you score a critical hit the target is staggered for 1 round. At 11th level, the duration increases to 1d4 rounds. This is just too weak.

Wind Sight (Ex): Nice but the duration is to short. I would suggest the duration being changed to minutes per level.

Wings of Air (Su): I like this a lot. Really good, but why is overland flight on the spell list? Especially as a 6:th level spell?

Final Revelation: Again. You know what I think.

Conclusion Wind: This is another one of my favourite Mysteries. Perhaps the most fun Mystery, but the spell list needs more work so does some revelations. Some of the Revelations are to weak and overlap the spells.
Heaven get chain lightning and overland flight as a 5:th level spell. Wind - the master of air and electricity - don't. This needs to be addressed. The duration of Wind Sight needs to be extended.
Shadow Lodge
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Lilith wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
For now, though, won't the current rules for gestalt characters in Unearthed Arcana work?
They've worked for me in my 3-man RotRL game. :)

Lilith

Spoiler:

What was the party make up like? I'm restarting my RotRL game this week and with a 3-man group aswell and was thinking about allowing gestalt. But I'm not usre how they'll stack up to the monsters and the bosses to come
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I am SO looking forward to this book it is not even funny. I am also in the camp of LOVING Wayne Reynolds as the cover artist. Speaking of the cover (no I'm not looking for it yet) but I was wondering, will the new classes be featured on the cover (some of them, ALL of them) and fighting some AWESOME villain/monster?

Okay, here endth my questions. :)

Dean (TMW)
Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer
The_Minstrel_Wyrm wrote:
I am SO looking forward to this book it is not even funny. I am also in the camp of LOVING Wayne Reynolds as the cover artist. Speaking of the cover (no I'm not looking for it yet) but I was wondering, will the new classes be featured on the cover (some of them, ALL of them) and fighting some AWESOME villain/monster?
Magic 8-Ball wrote:
Outlook good

Lazaro wrote:
Lilith wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
For now, though, won't the current rules for gestalt characters in Unearthed Arcana work?
They've worked for me in my 3-man RotRL game. :)
Lilith** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Gnome bard/monk (a dastardly combo if there ever was one)
Gnome rogue/sorcerer (dragon bloodline)
Gnome cleric (Nethys)/sorcerer (fey bloodline)

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I don't really know where to ask questions about the advanced player's guide classes now that the play test forums are down, if there is a better place to discuss them in general please let me know.

I had a question concerning the Witch. I just wanted to know what the rationale behind making the Witch's primary spellcasting stat Intelligence was. As I understood the fluff / flavor, the witch gets all of her spells by communing with her familiar. It seems like Charisma or Wisdom would be a better fit. Is there any chance of something so core to the class being changed? Could someone please explain why Intelligence was chosen in this case?

Thank you much.
Paizo Employee Creative Director
Draznar wrote:

I don't really know where to ask questions about the advanced player's guide classes now that the play test forums are down, if there is a better place to discuss them in general please let me know.

I had a question concerning the Witch. I just wanted to know what the rationale behind making the Witch's primary spellcasting stat Intelligence was. As I understood the fluff / flavor, the witch gets all of her spells by communing with her familiar. It seems like Charisma or Wisdom would be a better fit. Is there any chance of something so core to the class being changed? Could someone please explain why Intelligence was chosen in this case?

Thank you much.

There's already a LOT of Charisma-based casters, and very very very few Intelligence based casters.

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