Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Player's Guide (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Player's Guide (OGL)
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Take your Game to the Next Level!

Explore new and uncharted depths of roleplaying with the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide! Empower your existing characters with expanded rules for all 11 Pathfinder Roleplaying Game core classes and seven core races, or build a new one from the ground up with one of six brand-new, 20-level base classes. Whether you're designing your own monstrous helpers as an enigmatic summoner, brewing up trouble with a grimy urban alchemist, or simply teaching an old rogue a new trick, this book has everything you need to make your heroes more heroic.

The Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide is a must-have companion volume to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into the new millennium.

The 336-page Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide includes:

  • Six new base classes: the monster-hunting inquisitor, the explosive alchemist, the noble cavalier, the prophecy-haunted oracle, the monster-crafting summoner, and the hex-weaving witch
  • More than a hundred innovative new feats and combat abilities for characters of all classes, including Steal, Point-Blank Master, and Bouncing Spell
  • Variant class abilities, rules subsystems, and thematic archetypes for all 11 core classes, such as the antipaladin, the hungry ghost monk, and the urban ranger
  • Hundreds of new spells and magic items, from phantasmal revenge to the Storm King's Cloud Castle
  • A wealth of fantastic equipment, such as fireblast rods and fortune-tellers' cards
  • New prestige classes like the Master Chymist and the Battle Herald
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-246-3

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Last Updated - 12/01/2010

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good

5/5

good addition to the collection offers good spells and feats, came in on time and I bought the non-mint and I haven't noticed any damage to it.


Players: Buy this after the Core Rulebook

5/5

If you own a Core Rulebook and a Bestiary, what Pathfinder book should you buy next? A campaign setting book or an adventure module would be good answers, but if you're looking for more character options, the best answer would be the Advanced Player's Guide. This was Paizo's first big player-oriented hardcover to be released after the Core Rulebook, and it's safe to say they knocked it out of the park. This book has stood the test of time and still contains fantastic options for the game even though it was released several years ago. If you're playing PFS on a budget, for example, and you have to be choosy with what books or PDFs you buy, start with the Advanced Player's Guide. You'll find enough options in there to keep you busy for years.

What follows is a chapter-by-chapter review. Do keep in mind that this book pre-dates the publication of classes like the magus, vigilante, kineticist, etc., so you won't find options directly designed for them. In addition, because it's part of the RPG line, it does not contain Golarion-specific flavour (though everything in here is compatible with the setting). As a whole, I would classify the art as in the lower-middle spectrum of what Paizo can do, with a lot of reused mediocre stuff from earlier books. The layout as a whole, however, is quite nice.

Chapter 1 (Races): After an Introduction that's really just an expanded table of contents, Chapter 1 expands the options available for Core races (those found in the Core Rulebook). For each race, a sentence or two describes how each of the Core classes and the so-called Base classes (those found later in this book) are represented within the culture. I found this section was fairly generic and tried too hard to make it sound like each class was common in each race, so there wasn't anything that seemed special. Next up are alternative racial traits for the Core races. These are important in that they allow a player to swap out one of the special features of a race (like an elf's automatic familiarity with elven weapons, or a gnome's resistance to illusion) for a different special feature. In other words, it's a good way to customize your PC just a little more and ensure that not all dwarfs are skilled at stonework, for example. Last, this chapter presents new favoured class options for each of the Core races: instead of the normal rule that a new level in a favoured class provides 1 hit point or 1 skill point, these new options allow a particular race to get something different. For example, a gnome with the favoured class of bard could get an extra round of bardic performance each day, or a half-orc with the favoured class of fighter could get an additional +2 to stabilization rolls when dying. Note that each race only has new favoured class options for handful of classes (not all of them). Unlike the alternate racial traits, I wasn't particularly impressed with the flavour or thought given to the new favoured class options: many of them didn't seem to have any particular tie to the race. Half-orcs, for example, can increase their bomb damage if their favoured class is alchemist, while human paladins can start to get energy resistance--there's nothing in the write-up of these races that make these bonuses seem natural or logical. From an optimization perspective, these new favoured class options are quite useful--I just wish they were better from a storytelling perspective.

Chapter 2 (Classes): One of the most important things that the Advanced Player's Guide brings to Pathfinder is the introduction of six new "Base" classes: the Alchemist, Cavalier, Inquisitor, Oracle, Summoner, and Witch. I don't have a lot of space to review each one, so I'll try to be concise.

The Alchemist fills a real niche in the game, is quite versatile, and would be really fun to play. They get special abilities to rapidly make alchemical items (of course), but also can manufacture bombs, cast magic spells (in the form of drinkable "elixirs"), and temporarily "hulk out" by drinking a "mutagen." As a GM, my only concern is the fact that the bombs resolve against Touch AC, so in games I've run the alchemist PC hardly ever misses and does substantial amounts of damage as an area effect. I also think that perhaps the mutagen feature should have been reserved for a specific "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" archetype, as I don't thik it fits well as part of the basic assumption of alchemists.

The Cavalier could probably have been better represented as a Fighter archetype. Cavaliers are mounted knights who swear an oath to follow the precepts of a particular order. Different orders provide different bonuses, Cavalier's mounts are hardier than normal, and the class provides PCs and their allies with some limited use of teamwork feats (discussed below). As written, the class is fairly bland, and I don't think it fills a hole in what could be covered well by other classes. You also see Cavaliers relatively rarely in gameplay because, frankly, they're just inferior to other builds (and I should know, because I've played one for a couple of years now!).

The Inquisitor is one of those classes I'm a bit torn about. The idea is that they're specialists in rooting out corruption and heresy within their faith, which is thematically really cool: but I don't see how that fits naturally with the activities of the vast majority of adventuring parties in the game. The class is conceptually unique and has a lot of cool and useful abilities, some of which seem to fit from a flavour perspective (like Bane) but others that just seem kind of random (like Monster Lore and Cunning Initiative).

The Oracle is another interesting class that I'm unsure about conceptually. Mechanically, they're spontaneous divine spellcasters who don't worship deities per se but instead strive to unravel a particular "mystery." As they advance in level, they get "revelations" which are special powers. Some of the revelations are really cool, and the mysteries are very flavourful. I like the class better after reading it carefully, though I'm still not sure about the name of the class (since divination isn't the focus) nor about the vague relationship they have to deities. They are a divine spellcasting class that is much simpler to play than clerics (though less effective), and thus potentially a good choice for new players.

The Summoner as presented in this book is infamous as the most overpowered class in all of Pathfinder, to the point where most GMs and PFS disallow it. "Unchained" Summoners (as they're usually called in contradistinction to a different type from another book) are, of course, really good at summoning lots of monsters, which is annoying for everyone at the table because it dramatically slows down gameplay. But more problematically, each Summoner gets an "eidolon" which is a bit like a completely customizable and incredibly powerful monstrous animal companion. If you have an Unchained Summoner, you may as well be playing a solo campaign because you probably don't need anyone else in the party to win most encounters. I'm not sure how the Unchained Summoner ever made it through playtesting, but it stands as an example that even great companies like Paizo can make major mistakes.

The Witch is a full (up to 9th level spells) spellcasting class that receives special powers called hexes. Some of the hexes are really flavourful and cool, and the concept of the class as a whole is one I really like. There are two things about the class I'm not a fan of: first, familiars are a major part of the class and as both a player and a GM I find familiars really annoying to deal with (because they rarely contribute positively to a play experience); second, each witch receives bonus spells depending on what "patron" they choose, but the patrons are just abstract concepts (like "Agility" or "Water") and have no substance or flavour to them, and no real potential for story development. I think it was a bland and almost forgettable way of implementing a really cool idea (mysterious forces granting a character power in exchange for . . .?). I should also note that one of the witch's hexes, Slumber, has proven overpowered and problematic at a lot of tables.

So as a whole, I think the Alchemist is a real success, while Witches, Oracles, and Inquisitors are solid additions to the game. The Cavalier is mostly forgotten, while the Summoner is a good example of what not to do in terms of game design.

The Classes chapter then continues by offering each of the Core classes something special, often in the form of "archetypes." If you don't already know, archetypes are packages of abilities that swap out some of the features of a class in exchange for other features, and they've become an important part of most builds for experienced players. Here's a summary of what each Core class gets.

1) Barbarians receive a lot of cool new options for rage powers (though, oddly, a lot of them relate to consuming alcohol) and several archetypes that don't change a lot of class features but that are quite good;

2) Bards get some fantastic and (sometimes quite dramatic) archetypes, at least as written--but admittedly, I don't hear about them being played very often;

3) Clerics receive the introduction of "subdomains", which are, as the name indicates, "branch" domains. A cleric with the Sun domain, for example, could now choose the replacement special power and domain spells of the Light subdomain. It's a way to allow the further customization of clerics since they don't have a lot of class features to trade out for archetypes;

4) Druids get archetypes that are all terrain-based and quite formulaic, along with a handful of "animal shaman" archetypes that have the same essential ability to gain an aspect of a particular animal's powers.

5) Fighters get a lot of archetypes, most of which are poor in terms of flavour ("Archer" or "Two-Handed Fighter") but some that are quite nutritious, as it were, to aiding particular combat styles;

6) Monks get a lot of archetypes, most of which are pretty bland but some, like the Zen Archer, the Monk of the Four Winds' Slow Time ability, and the Monk of the Healing Hand's capstone power are pretty cool;

7) Paladins get archetypes that are okay, but there's some clunky features for the Divine Defender and Sacred Servant. There's also the introduction of the Antipaladin (formally an "Alternate" Class) which I know a lot of people demanded but I'm just not a fan of the concept because I think it devalues the essential goodness of the Paladin idea;

8) Rangers get new archetypes and some new combat styles. I really like the Guide archetype, as the Terrain Bond feature seems much truer to the niche that rangers should fill as wilderness experts. The Infiltrator and Skirmisher archetypes also get some cool stuff;

9) Rogues receive 30 new rogue talents and 12 new advanced rogue talents to choose from, though most are of the "1/day, roll two d20s and take the better" on a specific skill check type. I like the Fast Getaway talent (allowing a rogue to sneak attack and then withdraw), and imagine it would keep a lot of rogues alive. The class also receives several archetypes, but most are pretty thin and forgettable (though the Cutpurse could be used to devastating effect depending on GM discretion);

10) Sorcerers receive 10 new bloodlines, and although I'm not an expert on the class, they look useful and meaningful;

11) Wizards get new elemental schools to specialize in, and some of the special powers look like a lot of fun (like the Air school's Cyclone power or the Water school's Wave power). There's also the introduction of "Focused Arcane Schools" which you can think of as "super specialization" in a particular aspect of a School in order to gain replacement powers.

Whew! A lot of stuff in that chapter. Moving on.

Chapter 3 (Feats) contains a *lot* of new feats. The summary table which gives a one-line description of each one fills four pages. Many of the new feats are standalone things, but others can be grouped by type: several give an additional use of class features ("Extra Rage Power", "Extra Rogue Talent", etc.), make it easier to use the new combat maneuvers introduced at the end of the book, create new metamagic options for spellcasting (with "Dazing Spell" responsible for a lot frustration to GMs), etc. A new type of feat, Teamwork Feats, are introduced for the first time in this chapter. The idea with Teamwork Feats is that if two PCs (or allied NPCs) have the same feat, they both get bonuses in particular situations: for example, if two PCs have the "Allied Spellcaster" teamwork feat, they each get a +2 bonus on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. I do like the concept, but the proven problem is that it's often hard to get other players at the table to have their PCs take the same one that you're taking, and the bonuses provided by the feats aren't so amazing that groups are inclined to carefully coordinate.

Chapter 4 (Equipment) contains about 25 new weapons (including some of those fun, weird polearms D&D veterans will recognize), a handful of new types of armor, a lot of new pieces of adventuring gear, and several new alchemical items. There's not a lot here that's earth-shattering, though some items, such as Weapon Blanch, have become de rigeur for every smart adventurer. It would have been nice if more of the equipment was illustrated, and that better choices were made on what was essential to illustrate: I know what an hourglass looks like, for example, and don't need a picture, but seeing what a "light detector" looks like would have been interesting.

Chapter 5 (Spells) has 57 pages of options for spellcasters of every stripe. Reading through, I noticed a surprising number of cool Paladin spells, a lot of Bard "finale" spells (that are cast and instantly end bardic performance), and a lot of ninth level spells. Some of the spells I really liked include Blaze of Glory, Fire Snake, and Hero's Defiance, and the picture of Cacophonous Call on p. 209 is hilarious. Every spellcaster is bound to find something useful, but there are some problematic ones introduced in this chapter, like the Create Pit line, that GMs need to be aware of.

Chapter 6 (Prestige Classes) introduces eight new options that PCs could, but probably won't, strive for. Pathfinder long had a reputation for not making much of the prestige class concept, and that's only recently begun to change. Really fast verdicts: 1) Battle Herald: Love the concept, but everything is tied off an "Inspiring Command" bonus which just progresses too slowly, making the entire prestige class weak; 2) Holy Vindicator: no design room for the concept, and the abilities don't help; 3) Horizon Walker: the bonuses in some terrains are fantastic and in others completely "meh"; 4) Master Chymist: Classic Jekyll & Hyde alchemist; 5) Master Spy: I liked this more than I thought I would, and could see it used for a lot of NPCs or maybe a PC (in just the right campaign). Gets clever and useful foils to most means of detection, but abilities come on line much later than they should for most adventures; 6) Rage prophet: Not impressive. 7) Stalwart Defender: Good, cool abilities that fit the theme, and a good capstone power.

Chapter 7 (Magic Items) has something of everything: magic weapons, armor, wondrous items, minor and major artifacts, etc. The new metamagic rods are really powerful considering the price, the new staves are pretty boring, and there's a lot of stuff geared specifically for the new classes, which makes sense. If you've dumped Strength and are relying on Muleback Cords, you've got this book to thank. My only regret is that the chapter introduces so many fun cursed magic items, and I hardly ever get an opportunity to use any in a game.

Chapter 8 (New Rules) is an important chapter containing three new concepts: additional combat maneuvers, hero points, and traits. [I'm almost done, but have run out of space here. The end of the review can be found at: http://jhaeman.blogspot.com.au/2017/07/advanced-players-guide-rpg.html]


A very awesome book

5/5

this expands almost perfectly on what the core is.

They add some very solid and original class ideas.

This a must buy for some that like pathfinder


5/5


The Shinning Example of What Pathfinder Books Should Be

5/5

The Advanced Player's Guide (APG) is to this day one the best books for Pathfinder. It introduces a number of (now iconic) classes unique to the system.

The overall balance of the book is amazing. Alchemist and Inquisitor are probably the two most well-balanced classes in the game, and the latter is what I consider to be the best designed one in all of Pathfinder.

We get a few alternate rules that are pretty cool, such as word casting and character traits. We even get new combat maneuvers added to the fold!

The possibilities of character creation allowed by this book greatly increases the variety and fun of Pathfinder. If you can only buy a single expansion book, buy this one.

The book is not perfect, of course. The Summoner class (and even more so, its archetypes) would really benefit from clearer wording. It's sad to see cool ideas such as word casting being completely abandoned after this...

Still, those are minor problems in comparison to all the good stuff that is included in the APG, and the book still deserves its 5-star rating.


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Shadow Lodge

can anyone confirm that the Brutal Pugilist is a barbarian varient that uses their fists? I am not asking for the details as I do have the book pre-ordered.


Derekjr wrote:
can anyone confirm that the Brutal Pugilist is a barbarian varient that uses their fists? I am not asking for the details as I do have the book pre-ordered.

Yup.

Shadow Lodge

Happy Happy... Joy Joy!!!! (thanks)

Silver Crusade

I recently bought the Advanced Player's Guide, and I haven't had time to read through it all. However what I've read so far has given me some feedback already:
1. I've already found a few typos. Wish they had proofread it some more.
2. There are some changes from the Final Playtest Version that didn't get properly checked. For intance, the Inquistor now gets the full judgment bonus right away, but it's level based (+1 at 1st level), which is a lot better I think; but then later in the text they refer to getting the "maximum bonus in the first round" - in fact that is the "Slayer" ability, which is a non-ability now. They also refer to it in the True Judgment: "Once the attack is made, all of the bonuses from the inquisitor’s judgments reset to those granted on the first round (although the slayer judgment remains at the maximum bonus)."
3. I agree with another poster that the Gnome should get a Favored Class Option for Sorcerer (maybe instead of for Wizard). And that the extra spell option for Human Sorcerers is a MUCH more powerful option than an extra hit point or skill point.
4. I was disappointed to see campaign-specific things (deities of Golarion) in the original books, but accepted it because they served as examples in that case. With Regional and Religion traits, there is even more, necessitating conversion for my own world in order to use them. Most of them are not really related to the Religion anyways, and could easily have been much more generic.
5. I was a bit disappointed to see practically all the Archetype barbarians are basically raging machines. I would have liked to have seen more role-play options, such as barbarians who are clever horsemen, river people, desert dwellers, with different skills related to each.

Does anyone know if anybody has posted the changes from the Final Playtest Version? As in, the change in Inquisitor's Judgments mentioned above, etc.?


just got this book and monk of the healing hands, true Sacrifice is the COOLEST ABILITY EVER!!!


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Michael New wrote:

I recently bought the Advanced Player's Guide, and I haven't had time to read through it all. However what I've read so far has given me some feedback already:

1. I've already found a few typos. Wish they had proofread it some more.
2. There are some changes from the Final Playtest Version that didn't get properly checked. For intance, the Inquistor now gets the full judgment bonus right away, but it's level based (+1 at 1st level), which is a lot better I think; but then later in the text they refer to getting the "maximum bonus in the first round" - in fact that is the "Slayer" ability, which is a non-ability now. They also refer to it in the True Judgment: "Once the attack is made, all of the bonuses from the inquisitor’s judgments reset to those granted on the first round (although the slayer judgment remains at the maximum bonus)."
3. I agree with another poster that the Gnome should get a Favored Class Option for Sorcerer (maybe instead of for Wizard). And that the extra spell option for Human Sorcerers is a MUCH more powerful option than an extra hit point or skill point.
4. I was disappointed to see campaign-specific things (deities of Golarion) in the original books, but accepted it because they served as examples in that case. With Regional and Religion traits, there is even more, necessitating conversion for my own world in order to use them. Most of them are not really related to the Religion anyways, and could easily have been much more generic.
5. I was a bit disappointed to see practically all the Archetype barbarians are basically raging machines. I would have liked to have seen more role-play options, such as barbarians who are clever horsemen, river people, desert dwellers, with different skills related to each.

Does anyone know if anybody has posted the changes from the Final Playtest Version? As in, the change in Inquisitor's Judgments mentioned above, etc.?

From a post by Jason B., Slayer adds 5 to your effective Inquisitor level for one of your Judgments, but you can't swap that Judgment for the duration of the combat. It amounts to an additional +1 or +2 for any Judgment you use.

It seems to me that this was really rushed out to meet the expected release date, meaning significant content errors are in the released product. I'm rather anxious for the errata doc to be released. Some things (like the Human favored class bonuses) seem exceptionally overpowered, while others seem relatively balanced. I'm hoping that this is changed as well, as the spontaneous caster thing for Humans is equivalent to half a feat every level.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Michael New wrote:


5. I was a bit disappointed to see practically all the Archetype barbarians are basically raging machines. I would have liked to have seen more role-play options, such as barbarians who are clever horsemen, river people, desert dwellers, with different skills related to each.

Not all people who come from barbaric cultures need to be members of the barbarian class. The Shamanic druid, Rangers, and warrior types who aren't as raged oriented can be respresented as fighters with the right feat and equipment choices. Also sorcerers, rogues, just about any class is fairly easy to fit into a barbaric society, the only problematic (but not impossible) ones are Wizard and Paladin.

The Exchange

LazarX wrote:
Michael New wrote:


5. I was a bit disappointed to see practically all the Archetype barbarians are basically raging machines. I would have liked to have seen more role-play options, such as barbarians who are clever horsemen, river people, desert dwellers, with different skills related to each.

Not all people who come from barbaric cultures need to be members of the barbarian class. The Shamanic druid, Rangers, and warrior types who aren't as raged oriented can be respresented as fighters with the right feat and equipment choices. Also sorcerers, rogues, just about any class is fairly easy to fit into a barbaric society, the only problematic (but not impossible) ones are Wizard and Paladin.

Not to mention that not all who take the Barbarian class need to be from barbaric cultures. Consider a pit fighting slave who wins his fights by losing himself in the blood lust and adrenaline rush of the fight. Or characters of civilized cultures who were lost for a time in the wilderness and had to adapt to survive.


I found that something is missing from Savage Warrior's Natural Weapon Mastery ability (p.108):

'At 20th level, a savage
warrior must choose one natural weapon. This ability
replaces weapon mastery.'

Maybe it should do something also?

Nice book anyways, good new options for all classes.


Charos wrote:

I found that something is missing from Savage Warrior's Natural Weapon Mastery ability (p.108):

'At 20th level, a savage
warrior must choose one natural weapon. This ability
replaces weapon mastery.'

Maybe it should do something also?

My guess is it grants the exact same benefits as Weapon Mastery, except with a natural weapon. And the superfluous non-disarmable part, of course.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Viriato wrote:
Charos wrote:

I found that something is missing from Savage Warrior's Natural Weapon Mastery ability (p.108):

'At 20th level, a savage
warrior must choose one natural weapon. This ability
replaces weapon mastery.'

Maybe it should do something also?

My guess is it grants the exact same benefits as Weapon Mastery, except with a natural weapon. And the superfluous non-disarmable part, of course.

Correct.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Card Game, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Viriato wrote:
Charos wrote:

I found that something is missing from Savage Warrior's Natural Weapon Mastery ability (p.108):

'At 20th level, a savage
warrior must choose one natural weapon. This ability
replaces weapon mastery.'

Maybe it should do something also?

My guess is it grants the exact same benefits as Weapon Mastery, except with a natural weapon. And the superfluous non-disarmable part, of course.

It'd only superflous if you've got a nice GM...

There's a reason it's called disarm


Is any of this stuff going to appear in the SRD?


So is there gonna be more content released for the Inquisitor? Kinda got screwed over. No feats, no prestige class, no different Orders of inquisition to add some flavor differences. Yes I understand you can pick different domains, but still 1 1/2 pages for the inquisitor, 5 or 6 for the other classes. I'm hoping there's some more Inquisitor stuff released soon, cause thats my favorite of the new classes despite its lack of content

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Card Game, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
lokhorne1288 wrote:
So is there gonna be more content released for the Inquisitor? Kinda got screwed over. No feats, no prestige class, no different Orders of inquisition to add some flavor differences. Yes I understand you can pick different domains, but still 1 1/2 pages for the inquisitor, 5 or 6 for the other classes. I'm hoping there's some more Inquisitor stuff released soon, cause thats my favorite of the new classes despite its lack of content

All of the APG classes are going to get support in either Ultimate Magic or Ultimate Combat, or both.

As for going in the PRD, yes eventually, but I think Paizo are still recovering from Gencon

The Exchange

SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
Is any of this stuff going to appear in the SRD?

If you mean the Paizo PRD, I believe so.

If you mean the site d20pfsrd.com, yes. The new Base Classes have all now been added. Note however, that new feats and spells have not been added yet so there are links on each of the new class pages that have no targets yet.

Also, a big pile of Gamemastery Guide stuff that was missed in the first round has now also been added to the site. The content is sprinkled throughout, where it seemed to make the most sense.


So I saw the antipaladin class variant and I must say...

Thank you.

The fallen good guy has been an archetype in fiction since before the authors knew it was fiction. An ultimate evil to balance the ultimate good is one of the greatest dynamics in storytelling. As the closest to an ultimate good walking around in Golarion, the paladin needed that ultimate evil to fall to and to fight against.

Just as the antipaladin needs the paladin to fall to and fight against.

I also thank you for doing it right. It's not a prestige class, it's not watered down into "you can be a paladin of any alignment", and it's not substandard compared to the paladin. It is, in fact, a mirror-match. Ultimate evil capable of standing up to the ultimate good in a fair fight makes both of them stronger.

Thus, in the end, the paladin is not cheapened or lessened in any way because of the existence of the antipaladin. Instead, both paladin and antipaladin have been raised above to play not just a part but the main roles in the oldest story ever told. The battle of Good versus Evil.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Serisan wrote:

It seems to me that this was really rushed out to meet the expected release date, meaning significant content errors are in the released product. I'm rather anxious for the errata doc to be released. Some things (like the Human favored class bonuses) seem exceptionally overpowered, while others seem relatively balanced. I'm hoping that this is changed as well, as the spontaneous caster thing for Humans is equivalent to half a feat every level.

Ugh, don't like hearing that at all. I would rather they did the same with APG as they did with the Revised version of the Inner Sea and push it back to correct the errors. Sure, you may necessarily not catch all of them, but you shouldn't be putting out a product with significant errors just to meet a deadline.

I hope this doesn't become something more regular with future products.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Hobbun wrote:
Serisan wrote:

It seems to me that this was really rushed out to meet the expected release date, meaning significant content errors are in the released product. I'm rather anxious for the errata doc to be released. Some things (like the Human favored class bonuses) seem exceptionally overpowered, while others seem relatively balanced. I'm hoping that this is changed as well, as the spontaneous caster thing for Humans is equivalent to half a feat every level.

Ugh, don't like hearing that at all. I would rather they did the same with APG as they did with the Revised version of the Inner Sea and push it back to correct the errors. Sure, you may necessarily not catch all of them, but you shouldn't be putting out a product with significant errors just to meet a deadline.

I hope this doesn't become something more regular with future products.

So, there are like a dozen of 5 stars reviews, and you take one person's negative opinion (I say "opinion", because I consider human favclass bonuses NOT overpowered and NOT errata-worthy) and you conclude that the product has "significant errors". /facepalm.

Of course I do think that some things (Inquisitor judgement, Selective Spell) should be errated, but I dare you, in fact I double-dare you to find an RPG sourcebook without any small mistakes.


I already boght the book from Amazon and sincerely don't regret the choice, because is full of goodies, but I've the impression, too, that seems somewhat rushed (maybe for the gencon?).

The 17 level of the inquisitor is outrageous. It screams rushed editing.

The human bonus spell thing is easily fixable: make it a 1/2 spell of one level below.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:


So, there are like a dozen of 5 stars reviews, and you take one person's negative opinion (I say "opinion", because I consider human favclass bonuses NOT overpowered and NOT errata-worthy) and you conclude that the product has "significant errors". /facepalm.

Of course I do think that some things (Inquisitor judgement, Selective Spell) should be errated, but I dare you, in fact I double-dare you to find an RPG sourcebook without any small mistakes.

Ok, maybe I should have said, “if this is the case” (in regards to having significant errors). I will make sure to do that next time, just for yourself.

And apparently you did not read my post over carefully, but I also did say “you don’t necessarily catch all of them (the mistakes).” So indicating, as you said, no company puts out error-free books.

But really getting tired of you slamming my posts, Gorbacz. I only gave my opinion or concern, don’t need or deserve to be put down or ‘facepalmed’ by you.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Just to add to what Gorbacz said I would say that there is no more percent of errata needed for this book then any of Paizo's previous products. There are just so many rules in this book that it feels like a higher percentage. On top of that there are so many new rules that it is easier for some one to look at something and say "Wow that is overpowered." and then declare it "broken" before they have tried it out. It makes it feel like there is a problem with the book because there are so many rules people make these comments about.


The book was rushed. There are tons of typos, small errors and vague phrasing. Consider, for instance, Reflexive Shot for the Zen Archer. What does it do, precisely?

But apart from that, it is a great supplement, with lots of fun, and mostly balanced, options.

Hopefully Paizo will correct most errors in the pdf and reprints.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
oynaz wrote:

The book was rushed. There are tons of typos, small errors and vague phrasing. Consider, for instance, Reflexive Shot for the Zen Archer. What does it do, precisely?

But apart from that, it is a great supplement, with lots of fun, and mostly balanced, options.

Hopefully Paizo will correct most errors in the pdf and reprints.

I'd say the book was rushed, probably with the knowledge that IT HAD TO BE THERE by Gencon, hell or high water. And I can understand that. With a much larger staff, the average WOTC book had about the same share of similar issues as well. I'd say it's a recommended purchase irregardless.


LazarX wrote:


I'd say it's a recommended purchase irregardless.

This is for sure. Even if I pointed out some flaws, the book is worthy alone 4 old "completes" and nice random stuff from other 4 old books.

Paizo Employee CEO

I can say unequivocally that we did NOT rush this book out the door. It was given a more thorough going over than almost all of our other books. We took extra time and staff members to make it the best that we could. We made many more passes by both developers and proofreaders than we would most of our other books.

That said, we are human and even if we quintupled the amount of time we spent on this book, errors would still be there. That is just the nature of the beast. Now, if we had a staff of 20,000+ looking at the book, we could probably narrow down the errors to just a few. But we aren't THAT successful yet. :)

I appreciate that everybody wants a perfect book. We do too. But it just isn't going to happen because we aren't robots. And if you want to see how the competition is faring in this regard, check out this thread over on ENWorld.

-Lisa


LazarX wrote:
The book was rushed. There are tons of typos, small erro I'd say it's a recommended purchase irregardless.

I agree here. I pointed out the flaws, but the amount of good stuff is simply outstanding. It's like an old "complete" with the additional good stuff from other 4 old books.


Ambrus wrote:

This strikes me as sort of funny. Now that the APG has been released, it seems that the perception is that any player selecting anything other than human for a sorcerer character is being "punished". I can't dispute that cause that's how I see it too. The human's favored class bonus is clearly superior to any others a sorcerer character could choose.

I'm curious; say, if a few weeks ago, your player had approached you and asked you whether, instead of a bonus skill or hit point, his gnome could gain an extra spell known each level, would you have believed it to be a fair and balanced trade off? It hadn't occurred to me to ask my GM because it hardly seems fair to equate spells known with hit or skill points.

Getting a known spell per level seems like it too good but look at what you give up for it. An extra hit point per level which with D6 hit die is extremely useful and more so if you have blood line with claws. Then there is skill points at 2 per level and int is pretty much a stat you won't raise via point buy. I wouldn't dump it but I wouldn't raise it either. Even with the Human extra skill point bonus if I was playing a sorcerer with out claws I'd consider the skill point first. I can blow a feat to get more known spells and that seems the better way to do it since you can get a spell of the level you can cast or 2 if they are lower level spells.

So I don't think a Gnome is getting the short end of the stick. They have many useful abilities over a human like better Constitution, low light vision, a bunch skill bonuses, attack bonus, magic bonuses. Gomes are great sorcerers. Still it is odd that they don't get thier own favored class bonus for sorcerer.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Just as an example, if you assume an error every 3 pages (which would be really good since that would be one ever 2000 to 3000 words) in a 32 page book you would have 10 errors, but in a book the size of the APG you would have 112 errors. Now if you look at a Campaign Setting book, that is mostly fluff, at 64 pages those 20 errors are going to most of the time be in the fluff no big deal, but we are dealing with a 338 page book that is almost all crunch so those errors are a lot more noticeable. We are dealing with what a 200,000 to 250,000 word book.

And it is pure awesome. :)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
oynaz wrote:

The book was rushed. There are tons of typos, small errors and vague phrasing. Consider, for instance, Reflexive Shot for the Zen Archer. What does it do, precisely?

It allows you to make AoOs using your bow (you can't AoO with ranged weapons, normally) against the same squares that you threaten with your unarmed strike (adjacent ones, unless Enlarge Person is out). The phrasing isn't vague at all.

Dark Archive

Justin Franklin wrote:

Just as an example, if you assume an error every 3 pages (which would be really good since that would be one ever 2000 to 3000 words) in a 32 page book you would have 10 errors, but in a book the size of the APG you would have 112 errors. Now if you look at a Campaign Setting book, that is mostly fluff, at 64 pages those 20 errors are going to most of the time be in the fluff no big deal, but we are dealing with a 338 page book that is almost all crunch so those errors are a lot more noticeable. We are dealing with what a 200,000 to 250,000 word book.

And it is pure awesome. :)

What he said.


voska66 wrote:
I can blow a feat to get more known spells and that seems the better way to do it since you can get a spell of the level you can cast or 2 if they are lower level spells.

You can take a feat, toughness, to gain +1 hit point per level. But there's no feat I can think of that will grant a sorcerer +1 skill known per level.


The art for the Cacophonous Call spell. Page 209. God, I love this game.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Card Game, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Because I've got nothing better to do, I just copy-pasted my APG pdf into Word, and then removed the personalisation line. This results in:

Pages 454
Words 244,433
Characters (no spaces) 1,191,853
Characters (with spaces) 1,404,481
Paragraphs 31,588
Lines 32,295

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Enlight_Bystand wrote:

Because I've got nothing better to do, I just copy-pasted my APG pdf into Word, and then removed the personalisation line. This results in:

Pages 454
Words 244,433
Characters (no spaces) 1,191,853
Characters (with spaces) 1,404,481
Paragraphs 31,588
Lines 32,295

Nice.

And, as mentioned, since most of that is crunch, not fluff, when a boo-boo does crop up, it's out there for all the world to see, not the kind of flavor text detail that only Charles Evans would find like the error-seeking cyborg bloodhound that he is! :)

Liberty's Edge

To what extent does unclear rules text etc get rectified between printings?

I probably won't be able to purchase the APG until it's in its next printing, so I'm wondering if some of the nitpicks will be non-issues for me?

Sovereign Court

Jagyr Ebonwood wrote:

To what extent does unclear rules text etc get rectified between printings?

I probably won't be able to purchase the APG until it's in its next printing, so I'm wondering if some of the nitpicks will be non-issues for me?

That's a good question. I've got the pdf and I'm lining a print copy up for a christmas present - will there be a second printing by then? Will it have errata?


Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

There is nothing about this book that feels rushed to me. On the contrary, it screams pure awesome. The amount of options is simply staggering.

Yes, there are some passionate folks who may not like some of the options, or wish some were different, but that should not detract anyone from purchasing this book.

With regard to typos ---- give me a frickin' break. No book will be perfect, period. But on top of that you have a large book that is entirely crunch, which must increase the chance of a little typo here and there, so the fact that there are so few typos communicates to me the care and passion that went into the book. None of these typos should detract from the overall enjoyment of the book. If they do, you should probably take a deep breath and/or stop reading books altogether.

Best.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Card Game, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Jagyr Ebonwood wrote:

To what extent does unclear rules text etc get rectified between printings?

I probably won't be able to purchase the APG until it's in its next printing, so I'm wondering if some of the nitpicks will be non-issues for me?

The Errata are fully intergrated into the additional printings - My Corebook is second printing, and has the first set of errata (but obviously not the second). For examples of what goes into the errata look at the ones for the core book and bestiary


I had a question on how spell Blessing of Fervor's last choice works.
Is it:
1. Anybody can choose to cast a 2nd lvl or lower spell
2. Anybody can choose to cast a 2nd lvl or lower spell if their class could cast said spell at that level
3. Anybody can choose to cast a 2nd lvl or lower divine spell

It is worded so ambiguously as to cause confusion. Personally I believe it is meant to mean the first one but everybody I have talked to(irl) seem to believe it is a mistake and believe otherwise.

Dark Archive

Serious people who do serious work recognize that perfection isn't possible.. In fact, one could say "perfection is the enemy of the good."

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

C4ptChunk wrote:

I had a question on how spell Blessing of Fervor's last choice works.

Is it:
1. Anybody can choose to cast a 2nd lvl or lower spell
2. Anybody can choose to cast a 2nd lvl or lower spell if their class could cast said spell at that level
3. Anybody can choose to cast a 2nd lvl or lower divine spell

It is worded so ambiguously as to cause confusion. Personally I believe it is meant to mean the first one but everybody I have talked to(irl) seem to believe it is a mistake and believe otherwise.

The answer is #2.

The spell doesn't let you do things that are impossible for you (like casting spells when you have no spellcasting ability); it simply lets you do more things than you can already do BETTER (to wit, add one of the listed metamagic effects to a spell you are casting).


This book is frickin' awesome

just saying


Ok Have a simple question. Why is it that in the new Combat Style for rangers that Shield proficiency in the list?

Weapon and Shield:
If the ranger selects weapon and shield style, he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: Improved Shield Bash, Shield Focus, Shield Proficiency, and Shield Slam.
At 6th level, he adds Saving Shield* and Shield Master to the list.
At 10th level, he adds Bashing Finish* and Greater Shield Focus to the list.

Should that be Tower Shield Proficiency? Just wondered, since they get shield proficiency as part of there basic weapon and Armour proficiency.


Have to agree with MerrikCale. The APG is fantastic.
Just got my APG from amazon today (sorry, but had a gift card) :)

Along the veins of the PH2 just way better balance, more interesting options, classes, etc. This book will get good use. Kudos to all involved.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

RE: the Oracle class, the Bonus Spell progression for the Life mystery is 3,5,7,9, etc. The Bonus Spell progression for ALL of the other mysteries is 2,4,6,8, etc. Is the Life mystery really different? In the Mystery section, it states "at 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter..."

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Card Game, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Daniel Graber wrote:
RE: the Oracle class, the Bonus Spell progression for the Life mystery is 3,5,7,9, etc. The Bonus Spell progression for ALL of the other mysteries is 2,4,6,8, etc. Is the Life mystery really different? In the Mystery section, it states "at 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter..."

Mentioned many times, both in here and in the APG Eratta thread. The general opinion is that it's a typo, but nothing has been confirmed


Mentioned many times, both in here and in the APG Eratta thread. The general opinion is that it's a typo, but nothing has been confirmed

I only found one other mention of it when I searched the website... my search skills must need some work. Thanks.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

The Life mystery progression is a typo. It should work just like all the others.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


DCironlich wrote:
Serious people who do serious work recognize that perfection isn't possible.. In fact, one could say "perfection is the enemy of the good."

On the flip side, serious people who do serious work also tend to be serious about proofreading and editing. They don't scribble something on the back of a cocktail napkin after six or so martinis and hand it in as "finished work."

We're somewhere in the middle here. Given the speed with which Paizo cranked out the APG, a lot of mistakes and general ambiguity were pretty well inevitable -- there wasn't enough time for playtesting and multiple drafts. But that's not to say the final product couldn't stand to be cleaned up a bit.

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