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Now, if you're not already sitting down, you probably should. I haven't read any FR novels. Ever. Not a one. In 27 years of playing DnD.
I just started playing in a FR campaign just recently. I was thinking of picking up a book or 6 from the king county library just to read over the holidays. Then I saw the list... oh my..
So! What should I read first? What author is worth reading? What should I avoid? Looking for opinions and/or pointers to reviews.
Thanks!!
Pete
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There really is only 1 book (assuming you ONLY read 1)
The Crystal Shard by Bob Salvatore.
This needs to be the first. It is the first of the "Icewind Dale Trilogy" that began in 1989 with the FR novels -- along with Shadowdale. And while that is a cataclysmic trilogy for the world of FR, it just ain't a very good book to read (nor is the series).
After you read The Crystal Shard and the other two in that trilogy you can start working on -- in probably any order -- other FR books.
-W. E. Ray
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The Icewind Dale Trilogy for sure.
I thought Spellfire by Ed Greenwood was pretty good too.
Cormyr: A novel was memorable.
The orignal Moonshae trilogy by Doug Niles
(Darkwalker on Moonshae, Black Wizards, Moonwell)
Elfshadow by Elaine Cunnigham
I also like City of Ravensby Rich Baker and Escape from Undermountain by Mark Anthony
If you like short stories they've collected the best ones in two volumes. Some of the ones from Best of the Realms volume I were memorable.
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It really does depend on what region you want to read about. Where are you playing in FR?
Some people really swear by the Salvatore books - but I'm not all that fond of them. I'm not saying they're bad books, but they just don't do anything for me. The whole concept was thought up spur of the moment on the telephone, and then sort of tossed into the FR. However, they are very popular books. :)
It does depend a lot on when/where you're playing, but in general I've enjoyed these books:
Cormyr
Death of the Dragon (follow-up to Cormyr, kinda)
Elaine Cunningham's "Counselors and Kings" trilogy - excellent writer - set in Halruua and environs
If you want some explanation about the Time of Troubles, then the Avatar Trilogy and the followup "Crucible: The Trial of Cyric the Mad" was pretty good.
As you noted from the massive list of novels, it might be helpful if you provided a few details about when/where you are playing. :)
The Icewind Dale Trilogy for sure.
Cormyr: A novel was memorable.
I will have to agree. Dizzt and Salvatore have a fan base for a reason, even tho Dizzt can be a emo kid some times.
I would also have to say the Sellsword Triology, but you really need to read the other Salvatore books first.
I enjoyed Cormyr. I'm usually not a fan of Greenwood, but something clicked not sure what.
Fizz
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As much as I claim to despise Drizzt...I still read the damn books, and the Gazillion Orcs trilogy is in the queue.
The first FR book I read was Niles' Black Wizards (I was 12 years old), which was Book 2 of the Moonshae Isles trilogy. For that reason, that trilogy has always represented FR to me, closely followed by the the Avatar Trilogy, which I quite enjoyed, but doesn't seem to stand up so well twenty years after the fact.
In the last twenty years a great number of very good FR books have been published...and a great number of very bad ones, too, sandwiched by a thankfully small margin of mediocre and forgettable ones.
I think my favorites, though, (and excluding Moonshae and Avatar as more nostalgically fond rather than exceptionally good), would have to be: Evermeet, House of Serpents trilogy, the Erevis Cale trilogy, the Starlight and Shadows trilogy, and the Watercourse trilogy.
There are many other FR novels that are very, very good in dribs-and-drabs, but overall are not very good. There are several FR series that are magnificent in concept, but weren't executed very well. The Harpers series is a great idea, and the overall mythology built up by the books is superior, but the books individually are so-so. Just my opinions.
I am far from up-to-date on all the books (unlike one of my players a couple years ago--I think FR is all he read), so I'm certain there are others.
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I recommend:
Evermeet: Island of Elves by Elaine Cunningham. It's a great book, especially if you like elves. It's a good read and provides a lot of historical information about elves in the Forgotten Realms.
The Starlight & Shadows trilogy, also by Elaine Cunningham. The main character is a dark elf named Liriel.
Elfshadow, Elfsong, and Silver Shadows by Elaine Cunningham. They're part of a series of five called Songs and Swords, but I've only read the first three. The main character is a half-elf who carries a moonblade.
If you haven't guessed, I love elves (and Elaine Cunningham). Even if you don't, the books are still good. Especially Evermeet for it's historical background. So, if you like learning about the Forgotten Realms, I'd put that one top on your list.
I've only read a short story in Dragon and part of another book. While not an FR person I'll just suggest anything by Elaine Cunningham. She's a great writer who has a good voice and writes very engaging stories.
EDIT: Yay! Another Cunningham fan.
FR books I loved:
Moonshae Trilogy by Niles
Maztica Trilogy by Niles
FR books I enjoyed:
Crystal Shard by Salvatore
Spellfire by Greenwood
Elminster: Making of a Mage by Greenwood
Crypt of the Shadowking by Anthony
FR books not worth reading:
Avatar Trilogy by various
The 2nd and 3rd "Shandril" books by Greenwood
Shadows of the Avatar trilogy by Greenwood
Planning to read soon:
Twilight Giants trilogy by Denning
The Avatar trilogy has a lot of readers bummed out--just curious, why don't you like it?
The first book was poorly written--by that I mean the craft of writing. I could not force myself to finish it--and reading should never be a chore.
My objection to some of Ed Greenwood's novels is different; often times they are just a string of events that don't advance the plot or develop the characters--sound and fury signifying nothing.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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i highly recomment City of Splendors by Elaine Cunningham and Ed Greenwood. It's mostly talking about the nobility in Waterdeep, and is a must for a nobles campaign.
Evermeet is good for 'This is why elves are they way they are." Cormyr and Death of the Dragon both are good for the same kind of reasons.
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The Avatar trilogy has a lot of readers bummed out--just curious, why don't you like it?The first book was poorly written--by that I mean the craft of writing. I could not force myself to finish it--and reading should never be a chore.
My objection to some of Ed Greenwood's novels is different; often times they are just a string of events that don't advance the plot or develop the characters--sound and fury signifying nothing.
I read the Avatar trilogy waaaay back when it was published, and my memory is fond...maybe it was my age at the time.
I loved "The Year of Rogue Dragons" trilogy by Richard Lee Byers a lot even if I didn't read a great deal of FR novels
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It really does depend on what region you want to read about. Where are you playing in FR?
As you noted from the massive list of novels, it might be helpful if you provided a few details about when/where you are playing. :)
My character is a halfing from someplace called "Loudwater" (I liked the description) who attended the magical university at Silverymoon. Now we're wandering around the Western Heartlands. Last town visited was "Hluthvar" which seems to be filled with very stuffy people who worship someone called "Helm".
Pete
It sounds like you are looking for books that are indicative of the setting to give you a "feel" for it. If this is the case, there are some Forgotten Realms novels that are fun reads, but in all honesty don't have a whole lot to do with the rest of the Realms as a whole. There are also books that detail major events that honestly aren't that great, and you can find out what happened fairly easily from the sourcebooks.
Granted, the above is my opinion, but hey, its the only one I've got.
With that disclaimer in place, I'm going to recommend books that I think are both fun and interesting books to read that also present the "feel" of the Realms as its been detailed over the years by the most enduring and consistent creators.
The Cormyr Trilogy: Consisting of Cormyr: A Novel by Ed Greenwood and Jeff Grubb, Beyond the High Road by Troy Denning, and Death of the Dragon by Troy Denning and Ed Greenwood. The first book gives great detail on the history of one of the most important nations in the Forgotten Realms, and the last book really sets the stage for Cormyr as it is now. The weakest book in the series is the middle book, which in typical Troy Denning fashion destroys anything he doesn't want to deal with in the novel that has been established in the setting (not that Denning is a bad writer, but he has a tendency to have his characters "get over" on established characters and to look for people and things that are established to kill or destroy to underscore how important an event is.
Sembia: Gateway to the Realms: The current name of this series is what I mentioned in the heading, but the original printing just referred to this as the Sembia series. Consisting of Halls of Stormweather, an anthology series setting up the characters to star in the later books, and the novels Shadow's Witness by Paul Kemp, The Shattered Mask by Richard Lee Byers, Black Wolf by Dave Gross, Heirs of Prophesy by Lisa Smedman, Sands of the Soul by Veronica Whitney-Robinson, and Lord of Stormweather by Dave Gross. The books don't quite give you the background on Sembia the way the Cormyr trilogy does for its title nation, but it does give you a feel for the families and politics of Sembia as well as the kinds of adventures wealthy merchant scions might have, and the secrets they might keep. The whole series isn't linear, meaning that its essentially separate stories about individuals in the families, although some events do play into other books in the series, and they kind of come back together again in the final book. Not all of the books are great, but most of them are, especially the books by Paul Kemp and Richard Lee Byers.
Songs and Swords: A series of novels by Elaine Cunningham, the books in the series (so far) are Elfshadow, Elfsong, Silver Shadows, Thornhold, and The Dreamspheres. The final book in the series, Reclamation is coming out next year in march. These books give you a glimpse at Harper politics, command structure, and missions, gives you a really good feel both for elven attitudes and the city of Waterdeep, features some really interesting insights into Khelben Arunson (also known as the Blackstaff), and finally is an entertaining story about Danilo and Arilyn. The banter between them alone makes it a strong series. A caveat: Thornhold is a bit strange in all of this, as it was intended to kick of a series of novels about the Harper schism, but TSR/WOTC scrapped the idea, so a lot of plot threads kind of come out of nowhere and return from whence they came due to a change in direction midway through the book.
Evermeet: Island of Elves: Also by Elaine Cunningham, this book is more or less the definitive work about elves in Faerun and the history of their arrival in Faerun, their gods, and how things stand at present. While the book is both great from a lore point of view and very entertaining, a few places in the book rely on some 2nd edition elements of the setting that aren't, well, acknowledged formally any longer, that being the particulars of the Spelljammer setting and the fact that the planes that the gods resided on were connected to the Great Wheel.
The Knights of Myth Drannor Trilogy: This series, by Ed Greenwood, consists of Swords of Eveningstar, Swords of Dragonfire, and The Sword Never Sleeps, although the last book isn't out until next year. Ed is a wonderful writer for "little details" like slang and day to day life, but many of his books do tend to lack focus. These books, however, have been a lot more focused on telling the tale of a group of youths from Cormyr and how they go from being untried and restless to seasoned adventurers, and its been a lot more focused than some of his work, as well as being a great book to show the process of how your average person ends up an adventurer in Faerun.
The above are, in my opinion, the strongest combination of both good, entertaining writing, and consistent setting "feel." There are other books that are well written, such as the Moonshaes Trilogy that don't really have much to do with the world at large, let alone have a similar feel. I also avoided books that had to do with events that were aberrations in Realms history (the Time of Troubles, the Tuigan Invasion), and books that dealt with kind of specialized areas of interest (the Underdark and Drow).
Also, while R A Salvatore can be an entertaining writer, I have to say, once you've read one "excited, well paced fight scene of his," you can kind of cut an paste it into every other book, and once in a while the characters have some interesting moments of character development and growth, often you can skip ahead a few novels and that growth is pretty much erased and reset so that the characters can start over from zero for the next story arc.
This list isn't exhaustive of what's worth reading, but my "short list" for someone that hasn't delved into the books yet. Also, I'd throw in that I loved Jeff Grubb's Finder's Stone books (Azure Bonds, The Wyvern's Spur, and Song of the Saurials), but since Jeff left the Realms almost no one has acknowledged anything in the books as much more than a footnote.
It really does depend on what region you want to read about. Where are you playing in FR?
As you noted from the massive list of novels, it might be helpful if you provided a few details about when/where you are playing. :)
My character is a halfing from someplace called "Loudwater" (I liked the description) who attended the magical university at Silverymoon. Now we're wandering around the Western Heartlands. Last town visited was "Hluthvar" which seems to be filled with very stuffy people who worship someone called "Helm".
Pete
::Sigh::, while the Silver Marches have been featured a time or two in the novels, the Western Heartlands and the city states there have been greatly under represented in fiction (ironic considering the Points of Light drive).
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It sounds like you are looking for books that are indicative of the setting to give you a "feel" for it. If this is the case, there are some Forgotten Realms novels that are fun reads, but in all honesty don't have a whole lot to do with the rest of the Realms as a whole. There are also books that detail major events that honestly aren't that great, and you can find out what happened fairly easily from the sourcebooks.
Actually, establishing the "feel" of the setting was very much what I was looking for, so you've done well. Most of my gaming has been homebrew, so I was interested in reading some representative works.
As well with 4th edition coming out (based around FR now, as I understand it) I'm also evaluating if FR might be a possibility to ease my preparation time for the games I GM.
Your list is great. The comments so far have been very helpful, I appreciate everyone's thoughts.
Pete
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I personally would recommend "Blackstaff" by Steve Schend. Granted I'm biases since I'm taking a class with him right now. And I am definitely in minority when I say avoid the Salvatore stuff, I've only ever been able to complete two books by him and they were both Star Wars books. I just can't stand his writing (or Driz'zt), but I digress Steve's book is great and Blackstaff Tower can't be too terribly far behind.
I personally would recommend "Blackstaff" by Steve Schend. Granted I'm biases since I'm taking a class with him right now. And I am definitely in minority when I say avoid the Salvatore stuff, I've only ever been able to complete two books by him and they were both Star Wars books. I just can't stand his writing (or Driz'zt), but I digress Steve's book is great and Blackstaff Tower can't be too terribly far behind.
I agree that Blackstaff is great, but unless you know about Khelben and all of the loose ends from a lot of the 2nd edition days, you loose a lot of the impact of the book. Its sort of a "preaching to the choir" sort of book, in that if you aren't familiar with the Realms, you really aren't going to get what is going one much at all in it.
FR books I loved:
Moonshae Trilogy by Niles
Ditto. This trilogy was quite enjoyable. I named a cat of mine after Shantu.
First, anything by Paul S. Kemp can be considered a treat.
Second, if you are not willing to start off with trilogies et al, stand alone's like Mistress of Night, The Black Bouquet, Escape from Undermountain or Darkvision do a world of good when it comes to envisage the Realms as they should be perceived.
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I personally would recommend "Blackstaff" by Steve Schend. Granted I'm biases since I'm taking a class with him right now. And I am definitely in minority when I say avoid the Salvatore stuff, I've only ever been able to complete two books by him and they were both Star Wars books. I just can't stand his writing (or Driz'zt), but I digress Steve's book is great and Blackstaff Tower can't be too terribly far behind.I agree that Blackstaff is great, but unless you know about Khelben and all of the loose ends from a lot of the 2nd edition days, you loose a lot of the impact of the book. Its sort of a "preaching to the choir" sort of book, in that if you aren't familiar with the Realms, you really aren't going to get what is going one much at all in it.
It was either for the first or second Realms book for me, the other being Elminster: Making of a Mage and I still don't know much about Khelben from 2nd Ed, heh.
At this point, I have read over 100 FR books, and this is MHO.
Avoid anything Written by Ed Greenwood or RA Salvator. Greenwood is a perv that truely lives in a fantasy world where hot young women are attracted to creepy dirty old fat men. in his writing Elminster gets more ass than a bus stop toilet seat, and Mirt the Merciless has a 20 yr old contortionist as his lover. *Shivers at that thought*
Salvator's characters are two dimensional with no shades of gray. it took Drizzt and Cattie Bree 18 books to hook up in what has to be one of the most passionless relationships ever. I keep hoping Wulfgar will just kill himself, and save me from his tortured mind. I get it, the demon tortured you. Get over it.
On the plus side is anything by Elaine Cunningham, Paul Kemp, Richard Baker, or Lisa Smedman. Someone mentioned THe Sembia series. Very good call. I just bought the entire series for my niece for Solstice. This series will introduce you to Paul kemp's character Erevis Cale, who is in the middle of his second trilogy, and is a very solid characer with a deep suporting cast. The Dragon Rage Trilogy was pretty good, and Love the drow or hate them, The War of the Spider Queen was an excellent read.
I've read alot of the old Fr book, including all the books with Finder Wyvernspur, and most of the older stuff is painfull to read. this is mainly because of TSR's rules around what could be written in a novel. It's about 7 pages long and is comical to read. (I'm sure it's still online somewhere.) The old books I read for the history, but they were like pulling teeth.
I personally would recommend "Blackstaff" by Steve Schend. Granted I'm biases since I'm taking a class with him right now. And I am definitely in minority when I say avoid the Salvatore stuff, I've only ever been able to complete two books by him and they were both Star Wars books. I just can't stand his writing (or Driz'zt), but I digress Steve's book is great and Blackstaff Tower can't be too terribly far behind.
My thoughts on this book is that it was one of the worst FR books I've ever read. It was a lame way to kill off Blackstaff, and it was even lamer to replace him with about a 16 yr old apprentice. The whole story was weak, and I'd say insulting to Elaine Cunningham who spent so much time developing Blackstaff. If anyone should have been allowed to kill him, it was her. And if anyone was going to take Khelben's place, it should have been Danillo Thann
My list of suggestions:
City of Ravens, Crypt of the Shadowking, the Alabaster Staff, Cormyr. These are one-offs that rank very highly, to my thinking.
Jeff Grubb's and Kate Novak's books. These include the Azure Bonds trilogy (Curse of the Azure Bonds, the Wyvern's Spur, and Song of the Saurials), and the two follow-ups Finder's Bane and Tymora's Luck. The latter of these become somewhat esoteric, but still great.
If you want to read something by Ed Greenwood, my suggestions would be Spellfire, Cloak of Shadows, or Elminster in Myth Drannor. These are all parts of trilogies, but stand out in quality and can be read alone without losing too much.
Elaine Cunningham's Elfshadow, Elfsong and Silver Shadows are excellent reads, as is Evermeet.
Dealing with RA Salvatore, try the Crystal Shard. If you like that, keep reading his books.
Avoid anything Written by Ed Greenwood or RA Salvator. Greenwood is a perv that truely lives in a fantasy world where hot young women are attracted to creepy dirty old fat men. in his writing Elminster gets more ass than a bus stop toilet seat, and Mirt the Merciless has a 20 yr old contortionist as his lover. *Shivers at that thought*
I can understand if you don't like Ed Greenwood's style. If you read my post above, I have some reservations about his style at times myself. However, making personal attacks on Ed are over the line. You don't personally know Ed, and your basis for why he is a "perv" is that "hot young women are attracted to creepy dirty old fat men."
The problem is that its fairly easy to look through history even to the present to find that, hey, guess what, sometimes attractive young women are attracted to older men. While there are certainly places where you can make a good criticism of Ed's work, this sounds more like you have an issue with "hot young women" not ending up with other equally attractive characters. That is obviously your right to have that preference, but at the same time, its as much fantasy to assume that pretty young people always end up together as it is to fire lightning bolts out of a staff.
My thoughts on this book is that it was one of the worst FR books I've ever read.
Steven Schend spent as much time developing Khelben in the game material, if not more, than Elaine did in the novels. Much of Khelben's history, when if was finally revealed, was written by Steven, and much of the material that was drawn on for Khelben was drawn from the various resources about Waterdeep that he worked on. Khelben really was a "composite" of Ed's, Steven, and Elaine's, but in many way, Steven did the most "detail work" on him.
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Yah, but when you are given the task of "here, go write a book where Khelben dies" and probably not much more, it's not going to turn out well.
I haven't read it yet, but some of the opinions I've heard say it was just a bad book. Some people don't like that Khelben is dead, and that would be why it's a bad book to them, though. :)
As for Greenwood... I like his writing style. His books are often, as someone else pointed out, excellent for pulling out little details about the FR.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Well I'm sorry to see any old character die, I think Khelben's death fit with his life.
As to Ed Greenwood's writing style. I've read on Candlekeep and other places that the, um, casual attitudes towards nudity and sex are part of Ed's Realms, it's just not readily expressed in the PG version of the Realms in the rule books. I know he made quite an essay on the use of roses to indicate a person's status and what they're looking for. I plan to name the next adventuring band I'm in "The Company of the Steel Rose" because only a couple of us will get the joke.
THO also has said that Manshoon has a creepy attractiveness that isn't in the books too.
Well I'm sorry to see any old character die, I think Khelben's death fit with his life.
** spoiler omitted **
As to Ed Greenwood's writing style. I've read on Candlekeep and other places that the, um, casual attitudes towards nudity and sex are part of Ed's Realms, it's just not readily expressed in the PG version of the Realms in the rule books. I know he made quite an essay on the use of roses to indicate a person's status and what they're looking for. I plan to name the next adventuring band I'm in "The Company of the Steel Rose" because only a couple of us will get the joke.
THO also has said that Manshoon has a creepy attractiveness that isn't in the books too.
Ed Greenwood's Elminster: Making of a Mage was one of the worst books I've ever read. It was like Ed really played Elminster in a set of average adventures and then wrote about it because it jumps around so much without a coherent plot. Not to mention he becomes a woman. If FR wanted to do us a favor they would have killed off Elminster not Khelben. Khelben was the only "believable" wizard I can remember from my youth attached to the realms. The whole Mystra crap be damned. I think FR has too many gods interacting with the world on a daily basis and that really hurts the versimilitude (sp?) of the books and realms as a whole. I have ran many campaigns in the FR when I was younger but they felt a bit adolescent when I revisited them. Let's up 4e kills off a bunch of the fluff of FR and makes it more gritty.
As far as novels the Dark Elf Trilogy was "passable" compared to the Icewind Dale Trilogy. Meaning it was slightly better written with more believable characters but with Salvatore you can be assured that any series you read from him has the same characters just renamed.
There is emo angst guy (Drizzt); Grumpy but good-hearted guy (Bruenor); Barbaric misunderstood guy (Wulfgar) and the girl hero in the book that never gets wounded very much but never gets laid either...
What was the series Salvatore did with the centaur (ie Bruenor)???
One problem I have with almost all "fantasy" books is that they all feel the need to throw in unrealisitc female heroines in the mix. It's like women are equally strong in fantasy despite wearing half the armor and somehow never have a period, lose a fight, get "taken advantage of" by the evil people or die...we get it ...let it go <sigh> but I digress.
I suggest the Moonshae Trilogy if you want nostalgia. I suggest the Dark Elf Trilogy if you want Drizzt's childhood and history, I suggest avoiding the Gods War Trilogy (Time of Troubles BS) and anything with Elminster in it.
I can understand if you don't like Ed Greenwood's style. If you read my post above, I have some reservations about his style at times myself. However, making personal attacks on Ed are over the line. You don't personally know Ed, and your basis for why he is a "perv" is that "hot young women are attracted to creepy dirty old fat men."
The problem is that its fairly easy to look through history even to the present to find that, hey, guess what, sometimes attractive young women are attracted to older men. While there are certainly places where you can make a good criticism of Ed's work, this sounds more like you have an issue with "hot young women" not ending up with other equally attractive characters. That is obviously your right to have that preference, but at the same time, its as much fantasy to assume that pretty young people always end up together as it is to fire lightning bolts out of a staff.
No, my problem is that Everytime there is a female mage, she gets her clothing blasted off in a spell battle, while the men rarely do. Creepy mages? Elminster is described as wearing a dirty food stained robe with his long scraggly beard (Not the new Noble Elminster shown in all of the new artwork.) Vangderhast much of the same, Halister, Manshoon, Semmemon as bad of a Sauraman ripoff as Elminster is a Gandalf ripoff. His approach to writing women is done from the prospective of a horney 15yr old and I so bad my wife won't even crack his books because they piss her off. Is calling him a Perv a personal attack? No, it is a simple statement. This is what I think of his work. This is what I know I'm going to get if I read his work.
Steven Schend spent as much time developing Khelben in the game material, if not more, than Elaine did in the novels. Much of Khelben's history, when if was finally revealed, was written by Steven, and much of the material that was drawn on for Khelben was drawn from the various resources about Waterdeep that he worked on. Khelben really was a "composite" of Ed's, Steven, and Elaine's, but in many way, Steven did the most "detail work" on him.
The fact that this guy did all of the background work is irrelevent. He wasn't the face of the character. And while he might be a good background writer, the novel itself was just plain bad. Killing a character as Important as Blackstaff should have been given to a proven novelist, not someone who did the legwork, but was untried writing novels. As much as I hate to say it, I would have rather had Greenwood write the book.
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<Bump>
Since I started the thread I wanted to post a follow-up on my experiences.
First of all, I again want to thank everyone for their thoughts and suggestions. It was very helpful and I found for the most part to be accurate.
So here's what I did. I logged into our local library plug - www.kcls.org - if you live in King County Washington state you need to be using it! and started reserving books. The sweet thing about our library system is that they'll ship books to the library down the street to pickup locally.
I started out with The Crystal Shard by Robert Salvatore. I wasn't that familiar with this dark elf fellow that everyone seems to be fond of, so thought I'd check it out. Honestly, it was serviceable fantasy writing. <Insert action sequence here> The characters were cardboard cutouts that'd I'd seen elsewhere, better. The bad boy made good is very cliché and I found some of his dialogue (both internal and external) to be eye-rolling at times. <Insert Epic Battle. On a Cliff.> But I can see where the general fanboy rpg population could dig this as they sit with their jolt cola and poptarts.
I didn't want to discount him based upon just the one sample (there seem to be a lot of samples by the way! Good thing elves live forever!) so I also picked up another one of the Salvatore books. I started to read it, but got about halfway through and realized that I'd just read this other book called The Crystal Shard, and already knew the characters and what was going to happen. It certainly makes writing easier that way!
I picked up the Cormyr trilogy. I got through the first book and halfway through the second one. The first was ok. I liked the skipping between time periods in the same land, a nice writing touch. I still found the characters a bit wooden. The old wizard fellow was amusing, but again I'd seen it elsewhere, better. The second book took a steep dive down (from I could tell mostly due to the writer, not the plot per se) so I didn't make it through that.
Sembia: Halls of Stormweather I enjoyed. I didn't get how it ties into the realms as well (it could be set pretty much anywhere, really) but I enjoyed the short stories and some of the characters were unique and interesting. I will probably pickup some of the follow-on novels to see how the writers handle the family concept laid out in the short stories.
Elfshadow - It was just ok. It wasn't bad. It didn't knock my socks off. I read alot of books though, so it may be just that her first one of the series wasn't that spectacular.
I read "best of the realms" volume 1. I enjoyed a couple of the stories but some of them were drivel. The dark elf test by Cunningham was excellent. Only having read the short story in here, is the whole god-like Elminster/Gandalfwannabe really interesting to people? I've seen "Elminster" mentioned here and there in books and figures (Like I said, first time I'm reading the books) but jeez. He honestly seemed like a combination of Gandalf and Willy Wonka. The story was the definition of "over the top".
I started to read "best of the realms" volume 3, but found in the preface that it was a collection by Elain Cunningham to "fill in the gaps" of her books. So since I hadn't read her books... right. So back into the pile it went.
So onto the next set of books. Any suggestions?
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Well when a new reader comes to the Realms I recommend 3 books..
Crystal Shard, Elfshadow, and Spellfire.
However, as of late I've replaced Spellfire with Swords of Dragonfire. Spellfire is more or less out of print now and the events of the whole trilogy are pretty irrelevant, especially since we'll never get to a conclusion to some of the unanswered questions left at the end because of the whole 4E change.
I would suggest finishing Elaine's books, the last book in her series comes out toward the end of the year and should be quite enjoyable.
The original 3 Elminster books are actually quite good IMHO and you can get all 3 bound together in 1 book with notes and explanations in Annotated Elminster in your local bookstore. Elminster in Hell (book 4) was a "how can we keep Elminster busy while bad things happen" novel. Elminster's Daughter.. well really wasn't an El novel if you ask me, but still interesting.
You may enjoy Troy Denning's Return of the Archwizards series. These are the events that they wanted to get Elminster out of the way for btw. ;)
Evermeet is a good book and after you finish it a nature follow up for it would be the Last Mythal trilogy. Evermeet also details some of the events that lead up to Elfshadow.
I loved War of the Spider-Queen, but you really have to finish the Icewind Dale trilogy (assuming you only read Crystal Shard,) the Dark Elf trilogy, and Passage of Dawn series before reading it.
Sadly there seem to be more "ok" books for Forgotten Realms then good/great books. And a good portion of the "good" books are out of print and all of the "ok" books are new.
If you head over to Candlekeep.com, they host my novel checklist and at the end is a mini reading guide. I don't think the latest version has been put up yet (you can tell if it's old by books that already came out being grey'd out) but the new version should be up with the next site update. I updated the reading guide some in the latest version. If you really don't want to wait, just provide an email and I'd email it to you.
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Since I started the thread I wanted to post a follow-up on my experiences.
The Crystal Shard may only be "solid" as D&D fiction goes, but it's good that you read it first. No other FR book should have been your first FR experience. Now you know what Drizzt is all about. Furthermore, you can really respect yourself for not getting carried away in reading the other, painful sometimes, replicas of that first Drizzt book.
Spectacularly accurate way to describe Elminster. A cross between Willy Wonka and Gandolf.
The short story by Elaine Cunningham has got to be the best junk fiction in the D&D library. Nothing comes close in D&D mass market fiction.
-W. E. Ray
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The short story by Elaine Cunningham has got to be the best junk fiction in the D&D library.
This make me chuckle. Can I quote you on this? It'd make a great blurb on the cover of my next game-related novel. ;)
ec
If you want to know more about the recent history of the Realms in novel format and books that aren't too shabby I would suggest checking out the Last Mythal series. Rogue Dragons is also pretty decent. The first deals with elves and demons/devils in the Realms, the second with, well, dragons.
Also, if you're going to read an Elminster story I'd stick with his novels not with short stories. There's a lot to the guy and a short story doesn't tent to address that.
For what it's worth I'm reading Swordmage for a review on the Tome at the moment. I'm only halfway through but so far it's also pretty decent and starts to give the flavor of what the Realms is like after the 4e switch-over.
If you want to know more about the recent history of the Realms in novel format and books that aren't too shabby I would suggest checking out the Last Mythal series. Rogue Dragons is also pretty decent. The first deals with elves and demons/devils in the Realms, the second with, well, dragons.
Hi Jeff! Love your podcast, keep up the great work!
I always thought the best in FR novels was the Threat from the Sea trilogy by Mel Odom.
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They're not novels (obviously), but if you can dig up copies (I'm sure Mile High Comics has them) read the tragically short-lived Forgotten Realms comic book. The series was written by Jeff Grubb, and almost twenty years later they're still a blast to read. Grubb also wrote two short stories with the same characters that were in (I think) pre-Paizo issues of Dragon Magazine.
The Advanced Dungeons and Dragons comic book was also set in the Realms (Waterdeep, specifically). I don't think the series was as well written as the FR book but it still had its moments. The two series, by the way, were connected- the paladin Priam Agrivar from the FR book is the half-brother of the half-elf wizard Kyriani Agrivar from the AD&D comic (and the 3.5 hardcover Waterdeep: City of Splendors).
I dearly loved the FR comic book. A lot of paladins could learn from Priam Agrivar, and I loved the lighthearted manner that Jeff managed to convey sun elf arrogance from Vartan without making Vartan come across as being some borderline villain. I especially loved how he assumed every human woman would lop off a body part to be with him just by virtue of his status as a sun elf.
Some of the AD&D stories were indeed good, and Jeff wrote a few of them as well, especially the ones that dealt with the Xanathar, which was a great story arc.
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I dearly loved the FR comic book. A lot of paladins could learn from Priam Agrivar, and I loved the lighthearted manner that Jeff managed to convey sun elf arrogance from Vartan without making Vartan come across as being some borderline villain. I especially loved how he assumed every human woman would lop off a body part to be with him just by virtue of his status as a sun elf.
Some of the AD&D stories were indeed good, and Jeff wrote a few of them as well, especially the ones that dealt with the Xanathar, which was a great story arc.
As a rabid fan of the church of Selune, I couldn't get enough of the Godswar storyline from the AD&D book.
To this day when I read or hear debates about how a paladin should be played I think of the tarrasque/dragon-slayer storyline from the FR book. The fact that Priam learns to see the shades of grey in recognizing what evil truly is is why I always recommend that paladins be played much like Jedi.
Which is all to say, read the comic books if you can find them. :)
EDIT: milehighcomics.com has the entire twenty-five issue run of the FR series in stock.
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The short story by Elaine Cunningham has got to be the best junk fiction in the D&D library.
This make me chuckle. Can I quote you on this? It'd make a great blurb on the cover of my next game-related novel. ;)
ec
You should!
By the way, I heard you'll be doing the Pathfinder Journal, nice work!
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I dearly loved the FR comic book. A lot of paladins could learn from Priam Agrivar, and I loved the lighthearted manner that Jeff managed to convey sun elf arrogance from Vartan without making Vartan come across as being some borderline villain. I especially loved how he assumed every human woman would lop off a body part to be with him just by virtue of his status as a sun elf.
Some of the AD&D stories were indeed good, and Jeff wrote a few of them as well, especially the ones that dealt with the Xanathar, which was a great story arc.
As a rabid fan of the church of Selune, I couldn't get enough of the Godswar storyline from the AD&D book.
To this day when I read or hear debates about how a paladin should be played I think of the tarrasque/dragon-slayer storyline from the FR book. The fact that Priam learns to see the shades of grey in recognizing what evil truly is is why I always recommend that paladins be played much like Jedi.
Which is all to say, read the comic books if you can find them. :)
EDIT: milehighcomics.com has the entire twenty-five issue run of the FR series in stock.
I to remember those comics, my friend. In fact, I still have mine as well, in one of my comic boxes. Maybe I'll have to pull them out and read through them...
FYI, there's a new series of Forgotten Realms comics being published by Devil's Due, edited by James Lowder. The series is called "Worlds of D&D" and there are two stories in each issue, one of which will usually be set in the Realms. So far there's a graphic novel adaptation of "Elminster at the Magefair" by Ed Greenwood, and "Dark Mirror," by R.A. Salvatore. I have a story in production--even got to write the script for it!--but I can't announce the title just yet. One of Paul Kemp's stories is also in the pipeline.
http://devilsdue.net/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.f lypage&product_id=602&category_id=67&manufacturer_id=0&opti on=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53
I personally would recommend "Blackstaff" by Steve Schend. Granted I'm biases since I'm taking a class with him right now. And I am definitely in minority when I say avoid the Salvatore stuff, I've only ever been able to complete two books by him and they were both Star Wars books. I just can't stand his writing (or Driz'zt), but I digress Steve's book is great and Blackstaff Tower can't be too terribly far behind.
That book was an abomination. The story told there shold have been given to one of the authors who helped flesh Blackstaff out, not some newbee writing thier first book.
Now, if you're not already sitting down, you probably should. I haven't read any FR novels. Ever. Not a one. In 27 years of playing DnD.
I just started playing in a FR campaign just recently. I was thinking of picking up a book or 6 from the king county library just to read over the holidays. Then I saw the list... oh my..
So! What should I read first? What author is worth reading? What should I avoid? Looking for opinions and/or pointers to reviews.
Thanks!!
Pete
My suggestion would depend on what you like in a book?
My personal favorites are pretty much anything by Elaine Cunninham, or Paul Kemp.
Ed Greenwood's work is good, but he's a bit of a perv, with and obsession of creepy old men hooked up with young hot women.
R.A. Salvatore has a very formulaic writing style, and avoid anything with his character Cadderly, trust me.
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The short story by Elaine Cunningham has got to be the best junk fiction in the D&D library.
This make me chuckle. Can I quote you on this? It'd make a great blurb on the cover of my next game-related novel. ;)
ec
Only if you get the right quoter.
For posterity, I'm the one who said it's the best piece of junk-lit out there, not Johnny Appleseed.
-W. E. Ray