What is the most damage a Mythic archmage Wizard can do?


Advice


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As said above, I'm looking for the most damage a wizard can do within a single round. Metamagics, mythic spells, etc, how can one optimize to be an incredible blaster caster?
I'm rather new to Pathfinder, so I'd like to focus on wizard only, as even though they might optimize for blasting, their varied spells allow them to fill out many utility rolls, and I'm aware that other spellcasters have options to dwarf the wizard's damage output, so giving mentions to them would be really helpful.
I'm also interested in how a player might build towards such a goal?
My first impression is to become an Evoker wizard, but I imagine with the Mythic Heroes rules, you can do a lot more with it.


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At what level? To a single target, or to an area, or what?


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avr wrote:
At what level? To a single target, or to an area, or what?

Ideally, up to level 20, and to an area, but if single target deals a lot more damage, then go for it. Hopefully you'd be working alone, blasting off an evocation spell like Hyper Fireball or Ray of Heck your HP, but if a summon can just dwarf anything the wizard can do by themselves, then be sure to mention it.

Anything other than 3rd party is allowed.
However, a sort of level by level guide would be great, treat it as if you were going on a long campaign to become the best archmage.


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Right - single target the battering blast spell will likely still win, on area at level 20 I'm not sure, but possibly mythic fireball due to the tier 6 augmented option. Due to the existence of the spell perfection feat you would be looking at specialising in a single spell.

I don't know what mythic tiers you'd be getting or at which character levels you'd get them, but if you're talking level 20 I'm guessing you'll get the theoretical maximum tier of 10 then.

Going with mythic fireball you will certainly want the path abilities elemental bond (fire), mythic spellcasting and channel power. Feats may include quicken spell, empower spell, intensify spell and spell perfection. Maybe maximize spell as well.

I don't feel like writing up a L20/mythic tier 10 wizard and how they get there, and aren't likely to any time soon sorry. That's a disturbing amount of work.


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Disintegrate gets truly absurd.


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Okay, if we're dealing with a Wizard here, we'll need to do some work, but for working with Fireball, my Nuclear Sorcerer might be a good starting point.

The primary pieces of the puzzle are Fireball, Magic Trick (Fireball), and the interaction between Cluster Bomb and Concentrated Fire.
Do note that this depends on your GM being lenient and saying that you can apply Magic Trick before Mythic (not too unreasonable, I would hope).

At CL 20, you're throwing 10 2d6- 10-foot fireballs. Throw them all at the same place, and it deals 30d6 to a 5-foot radius sphere. With Mythic, this would hopefully increase to 30d10. But we're just getting started.

Widen means each of those mini-fireballs is doubled in size, and the damage jumps up to 5d10 each, or 50d10 total. Now, we take Spell Specialization, Varisian Tattoo, and Spell Perfection, pulling us up to 65d10. If we're an Exploiter Wizard, Potent Magic pulls us up to 70d10. Wild Arcana gives you 75d10, Elemental Bond boosts us to 100d10, and Channel Power + Empowered effectively doubles that.

Of course, that's just with a Wizard. A Sorcerer loses Potent Magic, but could be Crossblooded and with the capstone ability of Unique Bloodline, plus Blood Havoc as a bloodline power could get +4 damage/dice, for a base total of 95d10+380, at the low cost of 3 Mythic Power and a 3rd-level spell slot. Up it to a 4th level to Maximize it, a 5th level to Empower it as well, and an extra Mythic Power to deal a grand total of 1710+95d10 damage in a 5-foot radius.


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Dαedαlus wrote:

Okay, if we're dealing with a Wizard here, we'll need to do some work, but for working with Fireball, my Nuclear Sorcerer might be a good starting point.

The primary pieces of the puzzle are Fireball, Magic Trick (Fireball), and the interaction between Cluster Bomb and Concentrated Fire.
Do note that this depends on your GM being lenient and saying that you can apply Magic Trick before Mythic (not too unreasonable, I would hope).

At CL 20, you're throwing 10 2d6- 10-foot fireballs. Throw them all at the same place, and it deals 30d6 to a 5-foot radius sphere. With Mythic, this would hopefully increase to 30d10. But we're just getting started.

Widen means each of those mini-fireballs is doubled in size, and the damage jumps up to 5d10 each, or 50d10 total. Now, we take Spell Specialization, Varisian Tattoo, and Spell Perfection, pulling us up to 65d10. If we're an Exploiter Wizard, Potent Magic pulls us up to 70d10. Wild Arcana gives you 75d10, Elemental Bond boosts us to 100d10, and Channel Power + Empowered effectively doubles that.

Of course, that's just with a Wizard. A Sorcerer loses Potent Magic, but could be Crossblooded and with the capstone ability of Unique Bloodline, plus Blood Havoc as a bloodline power could get +4 damage/dice, for a base total of 95d10+380, at the low cost of 3 Mythic Power and a 3rd-level spell slot. Up it to a 4th level to Maximize it, a 5th level to Empower it as well, and an extra Mythic Power to deal a grand total of 1710+95d10 damage in a 5-foot radius.

Not to nitpic, as I have an interest in this exercise, but I am having trouble following some of these numbers. For example, Widen Spell does not give any extra damage dice:

Widen Spell wrote:

Benefit: You can alter a burst, emanation, or spread-shaped spell to increase its area. Any numeric measurements of the spell’s area increase by 100%.

Level Increase: +3 (a widened spell uses up a spell slot three levels higher than the spell’s actual level.)

and you show that both Potent Magic and Wild Arcana as a +5D (whatever) increase, when they both have an effect of adding only 2 caster levels each.

Finally, there is no demonstration of breaking the die cap of the spell for Fireball at 10D (whatever). For example, Intensify Spell.


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Thedmstrikes wrote:
Dαedαlus wrote:

Okay, if we're dealing with a Wizard here, we'll need to do some work, but for working with Fireball, my Nuclear Sorcerer might be a good starting point.

The primary pieces of the puzzle are Fireball, Magic Trick (Fireball), and the interaction between Cluster Bomb and Concentrated Fire.
Do note that this depends on your GM being lenient and saying that you can apply Magic Trick before Mythic (not too unreasonable, I would hope).

At CL 20, you're throwing 10 2d6- 10-foot fireballs. Throw them all at the same place, and it deals 30d6 to a 5-foot radius sphere. With Mythic, this would hopefully increase to 30d10. But we're just getting started.

Widen means each of those mini-fireballs is doubled in size, and the damage jumps up to 5d10 each, or 50d10 total. Now, we take Spell Specialization, Varisian Tattoo, and Spell Perfection, pulling us up to 65d10. If we're an Exploiter Wizard, Potent Magic pulls us up to 70d10. Wild Arcana gives you 75d10, Elemental Bond boosts us to 100d10, and Channel Power + Empowered effectively doubles that.

Of course, that's just with a Wizard. A Sorcerer loses Potent Magic, but could be Crossblooded and with the capstone ability of Unique Bloodline, plus Blood Havoc as a bloodline power could get +4 damage/dice, for a base total of 95d10+380, at the low cost of 3 Mythic Power and a 3rd-level spell slot. Up it to a 4th level to Maximize it, a 5th level to Empower it as well, and an extra Mythic Power to deal a grand total of 1710+95d10 damage in a 5-foot radius.

Not to nitpic, as I have an interest in this exercise, but I am having trouble following some of these numbers. For example, Widen Spell does not give any extra damage dice:

Widen Spell wrote:

Benefit: You can alter a burst, emanation, or spread-shaped spell to increase its area. Any numeric measurements of the spell’s area increase by 100%.

Level Increase: +3 (a

...

Mythic allows him to take it to 20, and he's widening to use the magic trick to concentrate it.


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How much damage can a mythic archmage do?

All of it.


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An unexpected entry is dropping a handful of small rocks and casting Mythic Feather Fall using a sorcerer with the Orc bloodline, Blood Havoc and Blood Intensity mutations. At 20th level you'd cause 40 reflex saves each doing 20d6+40 save for half. Average damage to something failing the saves would be 4400, even if they make every save and you roll minimum damage that's still 1200 damage, more than enough to murder anything without evasion. That's all with very little investment, once you start adding in meta-magic, mythic Channel Power, mythic Abundant Casting and caster level increases you could easily break 10k damage.

Scarab Sages

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Hmmm wizards can do more damage than i thought, I've always focused on versatility and flavour than raw power. Kind of a shame pathfinder doesn't use an xp component system qhere you can just buy what you like and your level goes up as your hit landmarks. Ah well if its a choice between doing hundreds of damage and being able to wear some armour or the like I'll take the choices i like instead of building for max damage.


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sunderedhero wrote:
An unexpected entry is dropping a handful of small rocks and casting Mythic Feather Fall using a sorcerer with the Orc bloodline, Blood Havoc and Blood Intensity mutations. At 20th level you'd cause 40 reflex saves each doing 20d6+40 save for half. Average damage to something failing the saves would be 4400, even if they make every save and you roll minimum damage that's still 1200 damage, more than enough to murder anything without evasion. That's all with very little investment, once you start adding in meta-magic, mythic Channel Power, mythic Abundant Casting and caster level increases you could easily break 10k damage.

That Blood Intensity assumes a Cha of 40, incidentally.


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Dαedαlus wrote:


The primary pieces of the puzzle are Fireball, Magic Trick (Fireball), and the interaction between Cluster Bomb and Concentrated Fire.
Do note that this depends on your GM being lenient and saying that you can apply Magic Trick before Mythic (not too unreasonable, I would hope).

The whole set up depends on your GM being extremely lenient every step of the way, mainly because the Magic Trick feat and its abilities listed under Fireball work disturbingly well if you apply them in a nonsensical order.

So lets go through this example to explain how it works. Magic Trick (Fireball) Cluster bomb gives you a 2d6 fireball with a 10' radius for every 2 caster levels you have. The cluster bomb trick doesn't care about the cap Fireball has on dice, so you don't need or even benefit from Intesnify Spell if you use this trick. So CL 20 = 10, 2d6 mini-fireballs. Also CL 30 = 15 2d6 mini-fireballs. Also you're allowed to overlap the mini fireballs.

This is where things get permissive. The trick Daedalus wants to pull here is to apply Widen after Cluster Bomb. I personally disagree. I think all meta-magic should be applied before any Magic Tricks are applied. By rules...there is no guideline. But this gets more complicated later.

So anyways, widened mini-fireballs would go from 10' to 20'. Still 2d6 damage.

Now here comes the next issue I have. He wants to apply a second magic trick to the same spell. This sort of makes sense, in that you should be able to choose the order the tricks get applied. But, does it make sense that you get to apply 2 tricks? Especially 2 tricks that are fundamentally the opposite? One trick cuts the fireball up into little pieces, and Concentrated Fire shrinks the whole thing into a more intense fireball. Not only is it counter intuitive to allow both, its also abusive. Especially since metamagic is being cut up and re-ordered in such a way to maxamize the mathmatical formula without any regard to the differences between meta magic and Magic Trick.

So concentrated fire gets applied to make each of those 2d6 widended mini-fireballs (20') into 5d6 pinpoint fireballs with a 5' radius.

And my next issue, inconsistency in the name of results. Daedalus wants to apply Empowered Spell here so he gets 2d6 from Empowered rather than 1d6 if he applied it at the same time Widen gets applied. In my mind all of this metamagic gets applied before Magic Trick gets applied. If you are very permissive you might allow Magic Trick to get applied first, or even twice as book ends to meta magic, but not only before applying meta magic but also between applying individual feats to the spell? This is grossly abusive.

Empowered concentrated fire makes each of the mini fireballs into a 7d6 with a 5' radius. You get one of these for every 2 CL you can get so anything that raises your CL effectively adds 7d6 damage.

So CL 20 = 70d6 in 4 squares. CL 30 = 105d6.

My personal view is that you apply all of the metamagic to the spell before you do anything with Magic Trick. That keeps the shenanigans to a minimum. Also I don't think you should be able to apply more than 1 magic trick to a spell, especially considering that each magic trick is more or less equivalent to metamagic with no spell level cost.


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I really should talk about Mythic Fireball.

Applying Mythic to Fireball changes it to d10s. Using 2 uses of Mythic Power ups the dice cap to 20d10. With 2 points of Mythic Power the Fireball also bypasses fire resistance/immunity and has a base radius of 40'.

Using Cluster Bomb on your mythical fireball...by RAW you go back to d6s of damage. I think its fairly easy to convince a GM that you should still use d10s of damage. You would never use 2 points of Mythic Power and Magic Trick: Cluster Bomb unless you need to bypass fire resist/immunity since you get your full CL in dice without it. Also your mini-fireballs don't benefit from the resizing you get from Mythic Power.

If you used Widen on the mythic fireball...you get an 80' radius on fireball capped at 20d10. 25d10 if you Intensify it. Add Empowered for 37d6. Now apply Concentrated Fire to bring it down to 5' radius and it gains 15d10 to bring it to 52d10. That is a 9th level spell slot for a 3rd level spell. If you Spell Perfection Fireball, that takes out the cost of Widen. Apply the 2 metamagic reducing traits to Fireball and the whole spell only costs a 4th level slot. You can use a minor rod of Quicken to cast 2 such fireballs in a round. Preferred Spell to let you dump prepared spells to cast metamagiced fireballs. Mythic Path abilities to give you admixture type benefits, and double dip school abilites and get extra Mythic Power points to buff your spells. Yep, nasty even without fully cheesing the rules.


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EldonGuyre wrote:
That Blood Intensity assumes a Cha of 40, incidentally.

Which is very easy to get:

18 starting out
+5 from leveling up
+6 from enhancement bonus
+10 from putting the 5 bonus +2's you get from 10 MTs
+2 from mythic Enhanced Ability (Charisma)
+5 from inherent bonuses from wishes/books/automatic bonus progression
--
46 without really pushing things


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sunderedhero wrote:
EldonGuyre wrote:
That Blood Intensity assumes a Cha of 40, incidentally.

Which is very easy to get:

18 starting out
+5 from leveling up
+6 from enhancement bonus
+10 from putting the 5 bonus +2's you get from 10 MTs
+2 from mythic Enhanced Ability (Charisma)
+5 from inherent bonuses from wishes/books/automatic bonus progression
--
46 without really pushing things

I wouldn't actually call that easy, but at any rate, I was simply being clear about it.


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Java Man wrote:

How much damage can a mythic archmage do?

All of it.

With a Quickened Elemental Empowered Maximized Battering blast, followed by an Elemental Empowered Maximized Battering Blast, around 18,000 damage on average. Heres a link to my full build.

that's probably the best you can squeeze

(Yes thread necromancy, blame the quarantine)


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How much damage dose opening a void rift cause?


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Zotpox wrote:
How much damage dose opening a void rift cause?

A quick search for "void rift" gets zero hits on d20pfsrd.com; what are you referring to?


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not the most, but a empowered, maximized mythic magic missile is a hoot! 90+ damage if you can just see the target...also a spyglass is 1,000 gp

my mythic magus decided not to kill Cthulu with these, so that we could actually fight it, though I did hit is big butt with three of them before I got "that look" from the GM


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Opening a portal/gate/rift to a hostile to prime material lifeforms inner/outer/hell plane.

Yah know
One of those planes where a slight breeze shreds +5 Impervious adamantine full plate of Invulnerability like tinfoil.


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Why not go bigger?

I wrote the following:

I wrote:
How about a deathstar coven with control weather. Crank up the wind to tornado, and chars who fail their save are picked up for 1d10 rounds at 6d6 damage + falling damage. [Avg failed save = 21/round.] With 40'/L radius and high CL, you can encompass a city. Bet you most fail their saves. City of 100,000 at 90% failure takes an average of 1,890,000 damage per round, weighted to the beginning of the event.

And elsewhere:

I wrote:
Look up the death star coven with a CL of 514,000. :-)

Amp it up with mythic and go nuts.

/cevah


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Zotpox wrote:

Opening a portal/gate/rift to a hostile to prime material lifeforms inner/outer/hell plane.

Yah know
One of those planes where a slight breeze shreds +5 Impervious adamantine full plate of Invulnerability like tinfoil.

No such beast. About the worst is lava, 20d6/round for full immersion.


Just checked the death star tornado. It is ~3894 mile radius. That is almost the radius of the Earth. That tornado (hurricane) would cover about 1/4 of the planet.

And that is before adding mythic!

Devastate a city? No. Devastate a large chunk of the planet! I think that adds up to a few HP of damage. :-)

/cevah

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