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Deadmanwalking and others wrote: Uh...Shadow Illusion is pretty much the companion, and anyone can get HiPS (it's basically the Legendary Sneak Skill Feat). Oof I had completely forgot Legendary Sneak was a thing, my bad. I don't think Shadow Illusion could be much of a companion however considering it can stay around a max of 10mins, pops in one hit, only does damage and has to stay in dim light or darkness. Kyrone wrote:
Specifically the Dragon Disciple, Ritualist, Scrounger, and Vigilante, with only the DD having a specific "access" listing. ![]()
EldonGuyre wrote: That Blood Intensity assumes a Cha of 40, incidentally. Which is very easy to get: 18 starting out+5 from leveling up +6 from enhancement bonus +10 from putting the 5 bonus +2's you get from 10 MTs +2 from mythic Enhanced Ability (Charisma) +5 from inherent bonuses from wishes/books/automatic bonus progression -- 46 without really pushing things ![]()
An unexpected entry is dropping a handful of small rocks and casting Mythic Feather Fall using a sorcerer with the Orc bloodline, Blood Havoc and Blood Intensity mutations. At 20th level you'd cause 40 reflex saves each doing 20d6+40 save for half. Average damage to something failing the saves would be 4400, even if they make every save and you roll minimum damage that's still 1200 damage, more than enough to murder anything without evasion. That's all with very little investment, once you start adding in meta-magic, mythic Channel Power, mythic Abundant Casting and caster level increases you could easily break 10k damage. ![]()
As far as I can tell there's nothing that prevents it. It would be rather odd to me if you have spells that have natural cast time greater than one round but can't meta-magic across multiple rounds. It would also create an issue when casting out-of-combat and therefore not even counting in rounds. Xenocrat wrote: You have to do it all in one round. If no one provides the rules citation before tomorrow I’ll look it up. Please do because I can't find anything that says that. ![]()
Castilliano wrote: But off-turn actions aren't tied to MAP, and it's explicitly stated (though I forget where at the moment). Page 446: "The multiple attack penalty applies only during your turn, so you don’t have to keep track of it if you can perform an Attack of Opportunity or a similar reaction that lets you make a Strike on someone else’s turn." ![]()
So with you losing access to your familiars for the entire first book, what is a witch/shaman supposed to do? Not having a "companion" certainly hurts other classes but you need the familiar to regain spells. Is there anything in the book that solves this issue or is it just nearly impossible to play a witch/shaman for the first book? ![]()
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Got any actual links or are you just gonna keep saying that. Also something being "entry-level" doesn't mean it has to be an objectively bad class. ![]()
graystone wrote: Now if someone bought the book for the sole reason that it had a big bear, I'd expect a higher star rating than someone looking for a shifter, master of shapeshifting, and not finding it... You should look at one of the recent reviews. Alright then, more non-shifter stuff to discuss, feats! Note that this is obviously just my opinion but I tried to be as objective as possible. Also I'll assume I can't post the names of every feat yet, so you get to make do with the first letters of each word. ---Feats---110 total
Might Be Taken By Specialists/Campaign Dependant(26): AC, AS, BBR, BD, CA, CP, CMP, DT, DD, E-E, ES, FI, F-G, M, OotS, TotH, VS, VC, VoB, WC, WGC, WGH, WV, W, WM, WR Useful in General(16): EM, EM, EWS, EH, FP, FC, GHB, GSA, IHB, ISA, MS, NSH, SR, TD, TI, TM Gonna Get the Nerfbat(1): Shifter's Edge Good Style Feats(6): BS->S->I, CWS->B->F Bad Style Feats(6): IMS->P->A, WS->T->S Nonfunctional/Redundant(2): AF, NW So in my opinion 55% of the feats in the book won't ever be used, not a great number. Also here are the reprinted feats: Ambush Awareness, Aquatic Combatant, Aquatic Spell, Brance Pounce, Clinging Climber, Desert Dweller, Earth Magic, Extended Animal Focus, Fey Performance, Forbane Magic, Group Share Spells, Harder They Fall, Jaguar Pounce, One Eye Open, Out of the Sun, River Raider, Scion of the Land, Tribal Hunter, Verdant Spell, Waterway Caster, Witchbreaker, Wolf Savage, Wolf Style, Wolf Trip. Note that these feats are included in the above breakdown. 24 in total, which means 21% of the feats in the book are reprints.... ![]()
Alright since it seems we're not allowed to talk about the Shifter anymore, I'll talk about animal companions: Grizzly Bear
And because Cats must always be the best, the Saber-Toothed Cat ends up with a Str score of 23..... We do finally get animal companions with damaging ranged attacks, the Corpse-Eater Fungus, and Sniper Cactus. Oh also we finally get official clarification of the issue with the Animal Companion Archetypes that replace Share Spells on classes that don't get them, like the Cavalier and Samurai. Sadly they chose not to go with this unoffical clarification by the writer and instead decided to nerf the two classes into giving up the ability to start with Light Armor Proficiency on their AC and their ability to ignore the armor check penalty when riding them. To add insult to injure only 3 out of the 16 archetypes in the book don't give up the Share Spells ability. Also ACs with more than one natural attack and only primary natural attacks can't take an archetype that trades out Multiattack for some reason. Was all this really necessary? ![]()
technarken wrote: The archetypes (both of Shifter and everything else) sound like they'll easily salvage the book if the base Shifter is a redundant mess, so I look forward to forming a final opinion in the next __ days. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the archetypes in the book aren't great, there are a handful of good ones though. There's a lot of reprinted content too, which seems to be a trend in recent books. It does however have !duct tape and !fanny packs, also magic trees that are pretty neat. Some of the feats are alright, and the "Mastering the Wild" section is probably the best part of the book since it contains similar stuff as Ultimate Intrigue but nature. ![]()
I've got to agree with Painful Bugger, this class is a real disappointment. Even if you ignore spells, the Druid class is better at shifting than the Shifter. To make matters worse the archetype I was looking forward to most, the Oozemorph is basically unplayable at low levels, you can only maintain humanoid form for 1/hour per level a number of times per day equal to 1/2 your level. That means that at 1st level you can be in humanoid form for 1 hour a day. Sounds bad, but it gets worse, when in ooze form, in addition to other restrictions, you can't hold items. So I hope the rest of the party is cool with carrying your stuff. ![]()
I think you guys are severely underestimating the use of even a lv1 Mystic Cure, likely forgetting about this line: "On the other hand, if this isn’t enough to restore all the target’s Hit Points, you can transfer any number of your own Hit Points to the target, healing the target that amount" The Identify spell has a bit of a problem since it gives a +10 to skill checks to identify passwords, but there is no skill check to do that. ![]()
Xenocrat wrote: One issue I have found is that a level 20 operative with two exploits and max cyber enhancement can move 110' per move action over difficult terrain. That's not fast enough. You're forgetting the "Fleet" feat for another +10 also if the Space Goblin stats from First Contact are correct, that's another +5. ![]()
Bigguyinblack wrote:
But the "First Aid" use of medicine to stop bleeding doesn't require a medkit, and for some reason having a medkit doesn't even give you bonus when trying first aid. ![]()
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someweirdguy wrote:
One would think, but "Class features and items affect crew actions only if specifically noted in the class feature or item." (p322) So nope, by RAW none of those work. ![]()
Kiln Norn wrote: Two skills, Skill Focus gives a +3 and skill versatility gives a +2 if you pick a class skill. Skill Focus and Skill Synergy give insight bonuses, which won't stack, in addition neither stack with the Operative's Edge. Kiln Norn wrote: Your theme might give a +1 to a relevant skill if you had said skill as a class skiing to start. So far only the Ace Pilot theme gives you a relevant bonus. ![]()
Kiln Norn wrote:
NPC bonuses aren't calculated like PCs, check out page 326 Crew Levels. bookrat wrote:
It's unclear, the Captain and Pilot role can only have one person in the role so I don't think it'd work with them, but Gunners can have one per weapon mount and there can be any number of Engineers. The only mention of Aid Another is on page 322 referring to restoring lost Hull Points. The other issue is when you're in a ship that can't hold a large number of crew members. I did some math and the results are interesting. Without the bonus from the Operative's Edge (as is RAW according to p322) you're gonna fail a lot, and even with it you're still gonna fail quite a bit. In the end even assuming the best possible circumstances (max ability score, skill ranks, training in the skill, operative's edge bonus and a +10 computer) a 10+(3*Tier) DC for a tier 19-20 ship isn't possible to succeed. Comparison Chart ![]()
To complicate things further, even before the 1 minute drift engine warm up time you need to spend 10 minutes plotting a course(p145) and once you're in "drift space" you need to take the 1min/size category to warm up your conventional thrusters to actually move. There's no support for a "Just jump, it doesn't matter where we end up!" style maneuver. There are a bunch of unanswered questions about starship travel/combat unfortunately, like:
EDIT: I found something interesting in the sidebar on p322 that seems to imply that a starship round is the same or shorter than normal combat round:
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Crayfish Hora wrote: I don't have the pdf, but when it comes around, I will. Though I imagine, since a Solarin's weapon can't be destroyed, disarmed, dismantled...it would be very unlikely to get anything from an enemy Solarin. How the crystals work is that you have your solar mote absorb the crystal, and if your mote is deactivated in any way(like by being dead) it drops out. Crayfish Hora wrote:
As long as you fight a enemy Solarian once in a while you should be fine. Even if you don't perhaps the enemy pirate was holding onto one to sell, or the space goblin was keeping it because it was shiny. The GM can simply work it into the loot you find. ![]()
JetSetRadio wrote: Has anyone thought that instead of buffing the Envoy you could Nerf the Operative? Nerfing is rarely the right option, it's almost always better to buff the underpowered content. JetSetRadio wrote: 4 Attacks? Land Speed of 70ft? Plus under the Triple and Quad it doesn't state extra penalties. Maybe I missed it somewhere but seems a little broken to me. There is no extra penalty for triple and quad, however it's not as powerful as you think it is. If you want to see the math compare Operative damage here and Soldier/Solarion damage here. As far as the move speed goes.....I have no idea why they get it. Honestly the easiest fix for the Envoy may be may be to give it the bardic performance ability as described on page 505. That should help with the action economy problem and frees them up to do other stuff. ![]()
Ludovicus wrote:
That's true but this is simply a damage comparison to demonstrate that the solar weapon can keep up just fine, and isn't "behind the curve". Ludovicus wrote:
Alright I made a new sheet with those changes. The results? The numbers fluctuate some but the overall results are the same, Soldier does more at 1st and 5th but Solarion does at 10th, 15th, and 20th. Ludovicus wrote:
True, I just figured the Solarion would be using the ones with saves because those are fun things you can do. And again this is just to show that the Solar Weapon is just as good as a Soldier using a melee weapon. Ludovicus wrote:
Correct, but remember that going ranged lowers your damage. Also keep in mind that some revelations can do things that skills can't. ![]()
Alright there's been a lot of debate about the damage numbers between the two classes, but no real math yet, so I decided to do some. I did something similar in another thread comparing Operative damage with small arms full attacks against sniper rifles and small arms full attacks against small arm trick attacks. I've compared Soldier and Solarion damage at 1st, 5th, 10th, and 20th level against ACs 10-50. At each level increment I've compared a Solarion full attack against a Soldier full attack. The numbers I used for everything are on the first page and the green bars on the charts are where the expected AC of equal level enemies are. Also while it's not in the sheet, full attacking is always better than doing a single attack at all levels with either class. The results are that at 1st and 5th level the Soldier does more damage, but the Solarian does more at 10th, 15th and 20th level. That said the differences aren't all that big. Things to consider:
Soldier
Let me know what you guys think and if I made any errors. ![]()
Mark Seifter wrote:
Oh right, I forgot about that. If anyone wants the numbers I threw together two more sheets, comparing small arm full attack with small arm trick attack. Sheet 1 Sheet 2 And surprise surprise it comes out exactly as you said. Conclusions:
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Mark Seifter wrote: From a math standpoint, if you have trick attack with longarms, heavy weapons, sniper rifles, etc you will wind up dealing (significantly) more damage than any other character in the game, soldier included. Remember that right now, they work with small arms and operative weapons, which aren't the ones that do a lot of damage at higher levels. I made a damage comparison, it took me a while to prepare but I think it's worth a look. I'm using this damage calculator, it should work the same with Starfinder data, hopefully. In depth stuff:
I've crunched some numbers about the Operative damage using small arms and sniper rifles at 1st, 5th, 10th, and 20th level against ACs 10-50. I've got 2 sheets, on the first I've ignored the credit cost of things and just did it by the item level. The second sheet I made sure that at each level the weapons cost was less than the WBL for that level and that the cost of the small arm is less that half the cost of the sniper rifle since you have to dual wield. At each level increment I've compared a full attack with small arms, a single attack with a sniper rifle without trick attack damage, and a single attack with a sniper rifle with trick attack damage. The numbers I used for everything are on the first page and the green bars on the charts are where the expected AC of equal level enemies are. Also while it's only in the overview sheet I did the numbers for a single attack with small arms with trick attack damage, amusingly it's always better than a sniper rifle without trick attack damage. At 1st through 7th level using a sniper rifle is better than a full attack with small arms, but it swaps at 8th level and above because of triple and quad attack.
tl;dr
8th-20th level
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I was gonna make a thread like this, so I'll just post here. Hopefully it's not too much info. Here's a list of changes/things people may miss, please let me know if I've made a mistake. p132 A lot of skills have been consolidated/changed. Also no more UMD p166 In SF you sell loot for 10% of full value. p171 Unarmed strikes are not operative weapons p183 Your attack bonus for thrown weapons key off strength, but for some reason the save DC for grenades key off Dex. p198 All armor can be activated to keep out airborne stuff and provide oxygen p222 You can only wear up to two magic items at once and have both function normally—beyond that, the magical fields start to interfere with each other (except aeon stones) p224 Potions are now "Spell Ampoules" and scrolls are "Spell Gems" p243 You use your rerolled result only if it is better than your original result p244 You can use your standard action to perform either a move action or a swift action, if you wish, and you can also use your move action to perform a swift action. p246 Casting in melee combat is a very bad idea, except for some spells (like some touch attacks) you always provoke and if you get hit and take damage, the spell automatically fails and is lost. As such Combat Casting now gives you a bonus to you AC and saves to avoid being interrupted p246 Combat maneuvers are a melee attack roll against the opponent’s KAC + 8 p247 5ft step is now a move action called "Guarded Step" p247 Dropping prone is a swift action p248 Charging now gives a -2 to attack and AC p248 CdG DC is now 10+level or CR p248 Taking an AoO is a reaction now (which you only get one per round) and there is no combat reflexes feat to be able to take more. p248 AoOs only occur on 3 things: movement, ranged attacks, and some spellcasting p249 Except for AoOs offensive readied actions now occur after the action p250 SP/HP, dying and death are completely different p250 Massive damage rule is different and core p250 Your HP can't drop below 0, once there you're unconsious and start "bleeding" resolve points until you stabilize (via spending RP, being healed, etc) If you run out of RP at the end of your turn you die. p252 Nonlethal damage only matters if it's the hit that drops someone to 0 p252 Ability damage to your key ability score reduces your RP and Con damage reduces SP first p252 Negative levels reduce your SP and HP p255 A reach weapon only increases reach by 5-ft regardless of size and you threaten the entire thing p259 Fight maneuverability is reduced to three ranks p273 The DC to stop burning is 10+damage delt by the fire that round p273 Many condictions have changed, including that you're not helpless when paralyzed The Raven Black wrote: I guess AoOs are "reactions". Are there other kind of "reactions" ? Are reactions a mix of AoOs and Immediate ? Pretty much, stuff like "deflect projectiles" is a reaction. ![]()
I'm guessing they mean the 1st level one, but still an error
Might be that they're going to introduce other kits in future books, but seems like an error now.
Most of the other abilities cost a resolve point, but an extremely powerful phantasmal killer-like effect doesn't? Surely that's a mistake.
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Ikiry0 wrote: The Soldier's absolute lack of anything in the way of a non-combat boost really hurts it. This is the biggest thing that bothers me so far. The fighting styles are varied and interesting, except for the Sharpshoot since it doesn't work with sniper rifles for some reason. The gear boosts are okay. But they run into the same problem as the PF fighter, bonus combat feats don't stack up to the "tricks" the other classes can choose from. And there's nothing for out of combat support. ![]()
Lanitril wrote:
I really like the Mechanic, it's right behind Operative for me. It's got a bunch of class features built around hacking stuff and obviously the choice of the drone or exocortex. On even levels you get a "trick" ability to choose from a list of 30 options(some locked till higher levels). The drone itself get to choose "mods" picking from another 30 choices. The exocortex can do some remote hacking using your bonuses and can give you effectively full bab against 1-3 enemies at a time. JetSetRadio wrote:
It's less ToB more Jedi, it's also seems somewhat complicated. It does however get some cool abilities. TheGoofyGE3K wrote: So just checking, it seems we've found one rather unfortunate error in the game so far (the icon increase instead of a decrease) and another in the operative? or is the Ghost/Thief/Daredevil "issue" intentional? The Ghost/Thief/Daredevil thing, as Mark himself pointed out, will need to be decided officially. I did find another error though. On page 26 under step 1 2nd paragraph last sentence, it says you get an ability score increase at 4th level but you don't get one till 5th level. ![]()
Kalindlara wrote: I think they all changed, but I can't be sure. The only one I knew was the dusty rose (+2 CMB/CMD) which took a significant hit (+1 CMB). Another hit to combat maneuver builds? Along with the Lore Warden it looks like Paizo really wants people to use combat maneuvers even less than the 1% of players that were actually using them. Yay more uneeded stealth balance changes! ![]()
Crossposting my thoughts from the other thread:
Owls, sleighs, and Dwarven Shout doubled in price
Brawling armor, Ring of Inner Fortitude, staff of the master, quick runner's shirt, feather step slippers, tremor boots, gloves of recon, cap of free thinker, jingasa, bracers of falcon's aim, and goblin fire drum all got tossed into the useless bin. At least Horn of Shattering got a buff, right?
Ragoz wrote:
Yeah, they should really stop calling this "errata" and call it what it is, balancing patches. ![]()
Is it that time of the year again? Alright lets see what Paizo thinks is errata this year. First impressions: Owls, sleighs, and Dwarven Shout doubled in price
Brawling armor, Ring of Inner Fortitude, staff of the master, quick runner's shirt, feather step slippers, tremor boots, gloves of recon, cap of free thinker, jingasa, bracers of falcon's aim, and goblin fire drum all got tossed into the useless bin. At least Horn of Shattering got a buff, right?
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p. 58 Under the Magical Child archetype spellcasting: "(she cannot choose spells that would affect an eidolon)" Considering that most spells can affect an eidolon your list is extremely limited. It should be: "(she cannot choose spells that would only affect an eidolon)" A single word can make all the difference. ![]()
Basic Chaokinesis (Page 6) wrote: You can create a shadow that protects a target from bright light. You can also change gravity to increase a creature’s carrying capacity by half or grant a creature a +4 bonus on Acrobatics checks to jump. Each benefit lasts 1 hour or until you use basic chaokinesis again. What does this do mechanically? Stop dazzled? Save vampires from the sun? Negate "light" based (Searing Light, etc) spells? Give a bonus vs sunburns? |