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Organized Play Member. 204 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 10 Organized Play characters.

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I agree that extract element working on anything with a resistance to your element is a good idea, but only because dedicated fire kineticists are currently completely helpless against devils.

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There is too much healing in this edition to have that work and be balanced.

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So, there is a new archetype called spell trickster in Lost Omens Grand Bazaar. It's feats all alter spells. This archetype kinda steals the telekinetic psychic's thunder as you can have a mage hand that can disable device and shove people now.

I would love if the amp feats in psychic worked more like how the feats in this archetype work.

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for shatter space it would be nice if it was start their turn OR first time they enter in a round. Currently if you use it on yourself there is no reason for an enemy not to get into melee with you which doesn't fit the description of the ability.

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a feat that would allow you to replace item dcs with class dc would seem to be on brand for the thaumaturge.

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I look forward to kineticist with cantrip modification being their stick and being the blaster version of wave casting. Of course, i wouldn't mind them not having any actual spell casting either.

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cheezeofjustice wrote:
2 instead of three isn't 50%.

I believe he is comparing to pure spellcasters sorcerer and wizard who get 4 spells per day (wizards chart shows 3 but their school gives 1 more)

The ones who get 3 get significant other benefits,
bard has better proficiencies/saves, more hp, and very powerful cantrip abilities.
Witches are supposed to have more powerful cantrips and focus spells (though IMO they tend to be weak overall)
Druid gets better hp, proficiencies/saves, and much more powerful feat chains tied to their orders.
Oracle gets better armor and hp, automatic increases in focus points and more powerful focus powers plus curse which may be beneficial or negative (cosmos resist all physical up to 12 is pretty darn good)
Cleric has better proficiencies/saves, more hp, and divine font which is usually 3-5 extra spells of your highest level.

The Psychic does not get better proficiencies/saves/hp so it's bonus stuff has to be twice as good as bard/witch/druid/oracle. Please note they also know less spells than sorcerers due to how spontaneous casters get spells into their repertoire.

cheezeofjustice wrote:
And the gap in power is a little uneven between types. I mean, Telekinetic Rend is actually hella powerful at 5th level when compared to the similar 5th level spell Lightning Storm. Especially in the base Unleash.

Base unleash only works on spells from spell slots. Also at 5th level its 2 5 ft bursts within 30 ft of 6d6 total damage (average 21) vs 1 5 ft burst within 120 ft for 4d12 (average 26) which can be repeated every round for 1 minute (so up to 260 damage average on 1 target). It never works out that way but on paper lightning storm is much more powerful.

Edit: But if we are talking 5th level spells, why do you use lightning storm as your example when cone of cold is from the same spell list and level. It is 12d6 in a 60 ft cone vs 6d6 in 2 5ft bursts within 30 ft. So twice the damage and most likely twice the targets.

cheezeofjustice wrote:
basically free amps from the third turn until the end. Every fight.

This presumes that each fight lasts until round 3 (i have had many fights that don't) and also precludes the opportunity cost of using the cantrips over your spell slot spells. You only have 3 actions per round, you could use tk rend at level 5 to do 2 5ft bursts for 4d6 damage but that means your not casting heroism/haste on your melee damage dealer or controlling the field with Oneiric Mire. Or choosing to be a sorcerer and firballing the field for more damage with your extra 2 spells of that level :P

If you don't use 2 focus points in the first 2 rounds then the amp bonus of the unleash doesn't actually matter. Its why Message and Mental scan are so good as they are 1 action so they don't screw over any other spell you want to use.

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I think i have figured out why i dislike tk rend so much. It should be amped scatter scree.

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Unicore wrote:

Status bonuses to saves vs spells is maybe a little situational, but getting it for 3 rounds out of a cantrip, and getting it up to +2 by 5th level is pretty good too.

That would be pretty good for a cantrip, but its not a cantrip, its a focus power. I think that is where people are having a disconnect, the amped functions shouldn’t be considered cantrips as they require a resource to use

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Thaumaturge has an issue with the fact that he has 5 skills he needs to max in order to use his class main ability, Arcana, Nature, Occultism, Religion and society. He does get two free bumps for one of those (save for society) but it doesn't feel good to have to do this. This is what i think should change to fix this issue:

First, get rid of the skill training in arcana, nature occultism and religion. Also get rid of the bumps at 9 and 17.

Second, get rid of dubious knowledge (there is a reason for this, i will get back to this)

Third, All Thaumaturge get esoteric lore ability. Stress that its based off of rumors, talking to the fringe of society and eldritch beings in the flavor text so those that complain about the fact the flavor doesn't stress charisma. Since its from "not the most reliable sources" it has the effect of dubious knowledge when using it and doesn't benefit from easier recall knowledge dcs. Have it become expert at 3, master at 7 and legendary at 15. We do this because it makes it easier on the gms not to have to calculate out differing recall knowledge DCs. I would suggest that we make this special lore skill always work off of charisma and remove it from find flaws.

The good thing about this method is it removes the need to spend all your skill bumps increasing knowledge skill proficiencies but if you want your character to specialize in a specific lore they don't have to have dubious knowledge apply to their specialty and they can get some good bonuses. Also might allow multiclassing into thaumaturge to use something other than charisma for find flaws.

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For Psychics Shatter Space and Unleash Poltergeist phenomena need to be "start your turn or the first time you enter the emanation each round." Right now people can apparently move into the areas, attack, and leave which does not meet the description of the ability.

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So, for nudge intent, looking over the rules it seems that the amp stunned doesn't even affect them on the turn they get it. "Each time you regain actions (such as at the start of your turn), reduce your stunned value by the number of actions you lost". So the stunned would go for the turn after they disobeyed you. It would stop them from using reactions until then though. Not sure this is what they wanted.

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They should be the same power level as the best focus spells, because those are also somewhat spamable and the extra uses are made up for the fact that the class has 1-2 less spells per level.

A sorcerer with dragon breath does a 30 ft cone doing 5d6 at 5th level, increasing by 2d6 every heighten, and that can also be affected by metamagic which amps can not. They also have 2 more spells of each level. If amp'ed cantrips aren't at least at dragon breath level why the heck would we choose to be one.

Oracle is perhaps a better comparison, they get their focus powers 3x per day by 17 (psychic have to spend their 18th level feat to do the same) so they have the same amount of focus usage outside of unleashing. They have 1 extra spell per day. Lets compare level 19 casters using whirling flames vs telekinetic rend. Whirling flames does 14d6 in 5 5ft bursts. Telekinetic rend does 10d6 in 2 5ft bursts. I know which one i would choose. Also oracle has better hp and better armor

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The oracle will get 2 uses per combat at level 11 and 3 at 17 so they aren't that far behind since they get 3 spells per level in addition to their focus spells. at level 17 that is 3 uses of 14d6 in 5 5ft bursts. Telekinetic Red would be 10d6 in 2 5ft bursts 2 times per fight, up to 3 extras if they unleash. I know which one i would prefer.

That said, playtests tend to be lower power then the release so hopefully this will be fixed.

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I think there should be a design change with the cantrips, each style should have 3 base cantrips that have a buff, a damage and a utility effect respectively. Here is how i would have done it.

Distant grasp:
Mage hand- Amp allow it to do interact actions and work on attended objects (steal attempt required vs hostile). Heightened at 3rd or 4th to allow telekinetic maneuver

Telekinetic projectile- Have it be the damage option, changing all damage die to d8s and making it attack all in a 5ft burst. Amp heighten +2 to increase burst size by 5 ft. So at 3rd level it would be a 3d8 10ft burst, at 5th its a 5d8 15ft burst, etc.

New cantrip: Ablative Barrier- Target gets temp hp = to spell level + casting mod. Amp gives it the effects of shield but you can use your reaction to shield block.

Infinite Eye:
Detect Magic- same, but allow the buffs to work on allies instead of just you.

guidance- Get rid of this! The one hour cool down doesn't work and detect magic covers the buff option. replace with
Know direction- I know, no one takes this cantrip. But have the amp act like the spell locate at 3rd and 5th level and have it be like 60 ft at 1st.

Mental Scan- Keep but for the amp give all allies some precision damage instead of the +1 to hit/damage. This is the damage option.

Silent Whisper

Message- No changes, this is the buff option

Nudge intent- remove this, maybe set this as the level 4 with some buffs to its effects (let it actually dominate or something similar). Put Shatter Mind as the level 1 ability with base damage of 1d6 instead of 3d6 but the amp instead of 30/60 ft cone has add 5ft to the cone size per level and change the damage heighten to +1 for 1d6 instead of +2. So at 1st its 1d6 cone for 20 ft with the stupified and at 4th its a 4d6 cone at 30 ft.

Ghost sound- allow intelligible sounds, give bonuses to deception checks as it heightens.

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I think what hurts this feat the most is that Thaumaturge gets constant flight at level 16 and they are both on the same playtest.

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What is the point of spending a focus point for this spell. It seems to just change it from unattended to attended by you or a friendly creature and is easy to access. There is a bit which says "the hand grasps and holds the object before the hand moves the object" which might be supposed to mean something but seems to have no mechanical effect (I have no clue why this sentence is there, mage hand already says it grasps the target object).

As of now i see no reason to use this amp unless you really need to grab an allies secondary weapon from 30-60 feet away. Also the only alternate amps that work for it are warp space (not very useful) Inertial Barrier (only on yourself and why wouldn't you use any other psi cantrip) or Shatter space (ok, this isn't terrible)

If they got rid of the friendly creature limitation and allowed it to use the steal action using spell attack instead of thievery, allow fine manipulation at a distance (for disable device, opening doors, etc) or increase the max bulk it might be a decent option, but currently Distant Grasp has effectively 1 less amp than the other options.

Can anyone convince me that there are reasons to use your focus point on mage hand?

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guidance is good, but i wish the amp overrode the 1 hour cooldown between uses

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Do they have to be underwhelming though? Because you are giving up 1-2 spells per level for the ability to use them more....

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My big problem with the class is that every combat you can have up to 5-7 uses of amp (2 from points, 5 from lingering psyche) so you want to use them, but action economy makes you want to use your more powerful spell slots. Which makes the one action amp cantrips so much better then their alternatives. Giving people extra moves/attacks(or 1d6 slashing /2 levels with shatter space)[Message], giving large bonuses to hit (+2 is significant and is for 1 full round) [Mental scan] while still having the ability to cast a 2 action spell is better than 1 die size and potential knockback from tk projectile or whatever the heck amp'ed mage hand does.

The psychic gives up 1 or 2 spells per level compared to other primary casters to have these amp'ed spells so the damage ones need to be decent to make up for that loss. And each conscious mind type needs to have at least one 1 action cantrip or it loses out compared to the other types.

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BishopMcQ wrote:

I'm not sure if it's been offered up before. What if Spellstrike allows you to use your weapon strike in place of the spell attack roll for Cantrips, keep the crit effect for Saving Throw spells. You could also cast spells without the sword to hit 2 targets with Electric Arc for example, but you aren't as good at it since your sword isn't involved.

I like this idea if it was for any spell attack not just cantrips. But I would prefer just giving Magus the spell proficiency full casters get. You will always be under a full caster due to not being able to have your caster stat as primary but that +2 feels significant and I kinda want to be able to fireball every now and then instead of being stuck using spellstrike or buffs.

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im pretty sure 1) is the rage specialization of your instinct.
2) whenever its a basic save its for the damage, You would use this as it doesn’t suffer from multi attack penalty

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Also note that a monk can totally use a shield (and be captain america). They just don't get shield block for free.

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"lordcirth” wrote:
going for both stunning fist and brawling specialization (They stack!)

Hate to tell you this but slow and stun only sort of stack.”Stunned overrides slowed. If the duration of your stunned condition ends while you are slowed, you count the actions lost to the stunned condition toward those lost to being slowed. So, if you were stunned 1 and slowed 2 at the beginning of your turn, you would lose 1 action from stunned” page 622.

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They are constant, but the weapon dice of your natural attacks are special statistics and can't be adjusted. Property runes should work, so you could add flaming/shocking/etc. And if you use your attack bonus instead of the set one you can get the potency rune.

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before wild shape comes online i think your supposed to use wild morph

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regarding sorcerer unarmed focus spells: I think the easiest solution is to make them use spell attack for attack. That way the sorcerer could be good with those abilities but not expert boxers.

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Sara Marie wrote:
Changed thread title from "Let's talk about some stupid builds." to Let's talk about some ineffective builds."

But sara, I'm pretty sure some of these were "stupid" as in stupidly good. Maybe change to strange builds instead of ineffective builds?

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Atalius wrote:
mcintma wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Yeah, it sounds like they would go free on your next turn if you do nothing.
Yeah even for monsters with Grab, they must spend an action to maintain hold. Although for them no check is required.
Hmm good to know, any idea how common monsters with Grab are? Is it a rare occurence?

After searching the bestiary, no it is not rare. Its one of the reasons why I rate the ancestry feat Unfettered Halfling so highly.

This came up in the playtest and here was one of the developer responses from facebook:

Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
If you are performing the Trip with a finesse weapon (such as the whip that has the trip trait), you add your Dexterity instead of Strength to that particular Athletics attack roll.

edit: it was mentioned in this thread https://paizo.com/threads/rzs428y0?Finesse-weapons-with-tripdisarm#1

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People say yoyo or paddle all, but isn’t it brigitte’s weapon from overwatch ?

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“Your morph effects might also end if you are polymorphed and the polymorph effect invalidates or overrides your morph effect. For instance, a morph that gave you wings would be dismissed if you polymorphed into a form that had wings of its own (though if your new form lacked wings, you'd keep the wings from your morph). The GM determines which morph effects can be used together and which can't.”
from page 301. Sounds like it doesn’t dismiss if the form you transfer into doesnt have that ability.

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A actually think Pumpkinhead is right, but this is really something that we need a developer to chime in on. I greatly look forward to PF2e's FAQ thread.

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Also this class benefits greatly from more alchemical items existing and so, like casters, will get better as more books come out. Already 2 new mutigens exist in the fall of plaguestone adventure. So it's hard to say if this class is too weak over all even if it may be too weak using only the core book (and that's debatable).

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generally 3 ranged is bad because of limited ammo and 3rd attacks rarely hit with the -10. Swords don't have that issue as they don't disappear after use.

edit: though thrown weapons with returning are a different matter.

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crossbow ace and alchemical crossbows are good too (item from fall of plaguestone)

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not benefit? Its an advantage to be able to use a medium size weapon and get your larger rage bonus. Large weapons have double bulk and cost twice as much.

Though if you can find a weapon of large size (since you don't have access to it) you can still wield it and its hilarious as the size difference is amazing.

Also the giant stature/titan's stature feats set you to a set size so you have no issues there (funny fact, huge giant instinct barbarians would shrink with giant stature).

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but that isn't necessary then. "If you don't already have one" shouldn't be there if you get one no matter what. You only increase the focus pool if it explicitly states you do (for example wild shape costs a focus point but the feat doesn't increase the pool).

This is definitely a FAQ candidate.

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KutuluKultist wrote:

My prima facie impression is that shield block beyond the earliest levels in general means: lose your shield to prevent a little damage.

Is that how it plays or am I missing something?

level 10 sturdy shield, hardness 13, hp 104 bt 52. Fire giants (level 10 monsters) do 2d12+13. So average 14 a hit after hardness, so blocks 4 hits before breaking on average. during 10 minutes rest after combat a master level repair fixes 20 hp, 40 on a crit.

Seems fine to me

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And also, weapon die can only increase once no matter what(page 279 increasing die size)

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I know in the playtest one of the developers confirmed thats how it worked and the wording hasn't changed.

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the "You reduce the DC of recovery checks by 1" is huge. remember that dying is a flat check so decreasing the failure/critical failure is a bigger deal as you don't get to add modifiers. If you go dwarf and get the racial feat to reduce it further you can crit on a 17+ at dying 1.

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should also note ranger double shot combines damage for purposes of resistance, which may have some value.

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Red Griffyn wrote:

The fighter will be the better archer due to the increase in proficiency (He'll always be one proficiency category ahead to hit vs. the ranger at L1, L5, and L13 in his primary weapon). A +2 increase to hit nets a higher crit chance and will be more important to overall damage than anything else.

That being said, the ranger has a few things to try and re-align it. For example the 'Flurry' Hunter Edge selection decreases MAP on your hunted target. With the L1 Hunted Shot Feat that can bring some balance, but at some point your shots are so inaccurate that it may be a wasted action to throw them out. A standard turn for both classes (say L6 so triple shot is in play) looks like this (values are considering the +2 proficiency that fighters have over rangers at all times):

Round 1:
- Fighter:
- 1 Action(s) - Point-Blank Shot Stance (Extra Damage or Accuracy)
- 2 Action(s) - Doubleshot (-2/-2)

- Ranger:
- 1 Action(s) - Hunt Prey
- 1 Action(s) - Hunted Shot (-2/-5)
- 1 Action(s) - Strike (-8)

Round 2:
- Fighter:
- 2 Action(s) - Doubleshot (-2/-2)
- 1 Action(s) - Strike (-10)
- 3 Action(s) - Tripleshot (-4/-4/-4)

- Ranger:
- 1 Action(s) - Hunted Shot (-2/-5)
- 1 Action(s) - Strike (-8)
- 1 Action(s) - Strike (-11)
- Ranger:
- 1 Action(s) - Hunt Prey
- 1 Action(s) - Hunted Shot (-2/-5)
- 1 Action(s) - Strike (-8)

While the ranger can put out more attacks per turn, the fighter is more accurate for the ones that count. Critical hits are likely where the majority of big damage will come from (especially since the comp. bows are deadly d10). Someone would need to run the math, but it may be beneficial to just take the +0/-5/-10 attack sequence for the chance on the +0.

Things get worse for the ranger if they are trying to hit a non-hunted target (-5/-10 MAP instead of -3/-6). It may become quite obnoxious to have to re-hunt multiple times in a battle....

This should note that fighter double shot must target two different targets until level 6 so there is a different play experience up to that point. Also, if the target is outside of the first range incriment the ranger catches up with hunt prey and far shot increasing range

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hyphz wrote:


STUNNED: rewritten. Now reduces your actions each turn by your Stunned value, then reduces Stunned by one.

It actually reduces by the number of actions you lost. So if you are Stunned 4 you lose your 3 actions, end turn and become stunned 1.

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Parduss wrote:

I don't have much to add, but I felt the need to pointlessly disagree with your lesser spell list picks.

rayous brightblade wrote:
Imperial as Arcane/divine, Dragon as Arcane/Primal, Demonic as Divine/Primal, Abberant as Occult/Primal, Angelic Divine/Arcane, and Fey as Primal/Arcane.

Abberant/Dragon/Demonic/Fey/Imperial: Agreed

Angelic: Divine/Primal
Demonic: Divine/Occult

I was hesitant to go angelic divine/arcane but i wanted them to be the mirror to devil. I would put the agatheon bloodline when it came out to be divine/primal to mirror the demonic bloodline.

The reason why i went primal with demonic is they seem to be very primal in the bestiary. They are all base urges and raw power. When the daemon bloodline comes out i would have set that as the divine/occult. I can see where you are going with this though.

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With Update 1.6 there have been some big changes for the classes and I wanted to throw out some Ideas to see what people think of them.

Alchemist: Overall I like the changes made, there is only one change i would make. Right now Chirugeon does not benefit from perpetual infusions because at the point you get it your armor potency bonus overrides the bonuses from those elixirs. Either changing the elixir gained or changing those to give circumstance bonuses instead of item bonuses would be better. In fact, as alchemical items are pretty much spells, just change all the item bonuses to circumstance so they resemble spells and that problem is solved (may cause new problems) Poisoners are also a bit weak but at least they can use powerful alchemy at level 8 to raise the poison's dc.

Barbarian: I like the idea of variable rage, but I don't like the implementation. Here is my idea.
1) New condition, Berserk- While berserk you gain a +2 conditional bonus to melee, thrown and unarmed strikes. This bonus is halved when using agile weapons. You also gain a -1 conditional penalty to AC and can not use actions with the concentrate trait unless they also have the rage trait. At the start of your turn if you have the berserk trait make a flat check DC 5x current berserk level. If you fail the check you will lose the berserk trait at the end of your turn and become fatigued. If you succeed increase the level of your berserk trait by 1.

This gives you a keyword so you can then apply it to future effects, such as a rage spell or a poison that drives people mad with anger. Also as you roll the check at the start of the turn it means you can account for when the rage will end (ie no falling out of dragon form mid air).
(also add rage trait to seek in the actions section)

2) Give Barbarians the rage ability, same keywords, same requirements, though making it a free action with the requirement that you start your turn could work as well. Give it the following text: You gain the berserk 1 condition. While you have the berserk condition you gain a number of temporary hit points equal to your level plus your constitution modifier and increase the conditional bonus to damage given by berserk by 1 for every 4 barbarian levels you have. While berserk if you critically hit an opponent or are critically hit you may decrease your berserk level by 1 to a minimum of 1.

This gives the barbarian an improved version of berserk (pretty much the same progression save 1 level later) and leaves them with more variable time raging as if you go on a crit spree you could potentially be raging the whole combat so you want to go balls to the wall aggressive.

Bard: Like the changes, bard is working fine as is.

Cleric: Again, like most of the changes but currently a sword and board or 2 handed weapon cleric can not use the three action heal as material casting requires you to hold your holy symbol and emblazon symbol is gone. Changing hold to wear in material casting would fix this issue.

Druid: Like the changes, same issue as cleric with the same fix. I do think there should be an in class feat that gives the same effect as druid vestments as I don't think a class should be required to take a specific item.

Monk: Like the changes, but Kir Rush and Ki strike need a cost as they currently do not have one. Unless they are free, in which case make them a cantrip (which would be awesome but most likely way too powerful)

Paladin: Love the changes, but Liberating step's damage reduction does not really work as grab is a separate action from the attack. Perhaps make it heal 2+ level instead of DR 2+level. Also it seems like glimpse of redemption should work on spells so perhaps change the trigger to attacks or targets with a spell.

Ranger: Love the changes, no additions here.

Rogue: Love the changes, no additions here.

Sorcerer: Sorcerer has issues, with the wizard changes there is not much reason to play one as the wizard has more spells and more versatility. It needs a niche of its own besides choose a spell list. I suggest the following:

Each bloodline should have a "lesser spell list". This gives more design space for bloodlines so bloodlines are more than just what powers you get. I personally see Imperial as Arcane/divine, Dragon as Arcane/Primal, Demonic as Divine/Primal, Abberant as Occult/Primal, Angelic Divine/Arcane, and Fey as Primal/Arcane.

Then they get an ability at 1st that they may choose 1 spell from a lesser spell list as a bonus spell known. At expert, master, and legenary they may pick another spell. These spells count as bloodline spells for all purposes. Or you could give them at a different rate like every 4 levels or every odd level starting at 3 you can choose a spell 1 under your highest level spell.

However you arrange it giving them the ability to cherry pick from a second school would give them something truly special.

P.S. Also fix familiars so that sorcerers can get the additional cantrip and spell.

Wizard: Again i like the changes overall but the spell exchange has a bit of an issue. Due to not allowing you to gain a bonus spell to the same level twice a specialist will end up with some of their uses coming from levels they have gained a bonus spell in. For example a legendary evoker ends up giving up 2 first for a third, but uses that bonus third and another 3rd to increase their fifth. This may be alright mechanically but I know some people get annoyed at having to do that. Instead, i think specialists should have the same number of exchanges that generalists have, BUT at slot +3 instead of slot +2 maximum.

So, thoughts everyone? Please give your comments, put what you would do instead, etc. Lets give Paizo all the creative juices we can!

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So, currently we have some spells that give natural attacks that have no mention of the effect of handwraps (moon frenzy for example) and some spells that give a natural attack that can not be modified by items (example dragon form).

I think that a simple rule to allow handwraps to work for them but act in the same manner as Bestial Mutagen would does, ie you get x extra dice unless you would normally have more. Or you can state they are considered +x magic weapons for the purposes of effects like powers such as Dragon Claw which would also work.

As it currently works Dragon totem barbarians quickly find their ability to turn into a dragon to be a weaker option than just hitting in natural form as even the mighty huge gold dragon at level 19 is doing less damage than just using his sword.

Bite attack:2d12+2d6+12 is average 32
Sword attack: 6d8+6 (expected str is 18 starting, 3 raises and an item) for average 33.
Greatsword attack is average 45

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Sanmei Long wrote:

Superstition got a buff, but it still only looks playable if a 15 minute adventuring day is truly the expected norm. :\ Even with an alchemist pumping out elixirs of life, the barbarian just isn't ever going to regain enough HP to keep in fighting shape unless battles are spaced quite far apart from each other.

(Also, lawl, you're only expected to have enough gold to buy two potions of moderate healing. That'll restore, at best, about 4/5ths of your HP...)

Technically they actually only work if you don't have a 15 minute adventuring day. As their healing is 1/hour, the more hours you have the better it is. If you only have an encounter every 4 hours a 1st level superstitious barbarian w/16 con heals 32 damage between fights and has 4 temps for those fights as well.

The problem with them is dungeon crawls where you have several fights in 1 hour. Maybe if they got a bonus like add your barbarian level to natural and alchemical healing? Probably still not enough.

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