Rules (not feats) that have changed since the playtest.


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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So I know everyone is eager to get their hands on class specific stuff, but I'm sure that's going to get held under the microscope plenty. But the general rules have been tweaked as well, and potentially in ways that are easy to miss. Even when we all have our books, it seems worthwhile to try and highlight these little changes.

Subsist, the equivalent of the PT's Survive in the Wild downtime activity, can now be performed during a full day of exploration by taking a -5 penalty. Combine this with the significantly buffed Forager feat and you never need rations again!

Stealing or Palming an object that is closely guarded (such as in a pocket) is now something that can be done at a -5 penalty without a feat. The Pickpocket feat lets you ignore this penalty, among other things.

Staffs have taken a big overhaul as well, but that might be a little bigger than I want to get into at this exact moment.

Please don't bog this thread down talking about specific feats or discussing the merits of these changes. Make another thread for that. The purpose here to chronicle the changes so people are aware of them.

Grand Lodge

I beleive taking 10 or 20 on a roll is gone


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Dysh the Unclean wrote:
I beleive taking 10 or 20 on a roll is gone

The question was "changed since the playtest", and that was true in the playtest. (The Assurance skill feat fills that role, if you take it).


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Shield blocking now requires a general feat, though several martials get it at level 1. Dents have been removed, items (most importantly shields) just have HP. They have a Broken Threshold (BT) after which they stop working (not sure exactly what this entails) which is usually 1/2 their HP. Broken items can be easily repaired, but destroyed (0 HP) items cease to exist. When shield blocking, the damage is reduced by it's Hardness, then the remained damage is dealt to *both* you and the shield.

Several of the Athletics skill feats related to climbing, which were cool but too weak, have been merged into a single feat. IIRC it's called Combat Climber.


It looks like fighters are the only class that picks a specific weapon group to become more proficient with. Everyone else seems to scale equally among anything they are proficient with. Correct me if I'm wrong!


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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Talismans (like the Owlbear Claw from the Playtest) no longer assume you must have a specific class feat or class ability in order to use them. They now have an ability that anyone could reasonably benefit from. Some mimic class feats/abilities, in which case they generally let you momentarily gain that specific ability if you don't already have it, and if you do, they enhance that ability instead.


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"Screening" from the playtest has now been replaced with "Lesser Cover." Also, being prone does not inherently give you a bonus against ranged attacks anymore. Instead, you can spend an action to hunker down and get a +4 cover bonus to AC. But you are still flat footed, so that's only a net +2 usually.

Also relating to cover: cover (+2) and greater cover (+4) now also give you bonuses to stealth, and lesser cover does not. There is also some interesting text on special circumstances a GM might allow for exceptions to normal cover rules. For example, letting you spend an action to lean around a corner to reduce or negate cover. I think there might be some fun shenanigans to be had with popping out of cover this way.


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Yeah, it's funny how "character options" always get at least 10x the attention that general mechanics do.

What happened with smoke/fog? I believe in Playtest it didn't even state any distances or anything, just a vague "fog is foggy".
Did they stay with 1E's 5' (but clear up wording?), did they do something with variable degrees/ tie into Perception Tiers?


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A few I have noted:
- The rule for counteracting effects has been greatly simplified. You don't take a penalty depending on the counteract level. It's much cleaner now.
- Attack of Opportunity no longer takes a -2 penalty. It only disrupts the triggering action on a critical hit (not just a hit).
- Cover is clarified and more finely detailed with the addition of lesser, standard and greater cover.
- The conditions have changed pretty significantly.


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I've been trying to work through these using text comparison which is a bit of a pest since Paizo protected the Playtest PDF :(. You can however just copy and paste all the text and use a text comparison tool.

What I've found so far by text comparing:

* MOVE and ATTACK traits used more frequently.

* ASSIST (with an attack) is now gone and rolled into AID. This means that you have to spend time preparing to help a friend with an attack.

* Regular success on an AID gives +1, not +2. Critical success gives +2/+4 depending on proficiency, not a flat +4. Critical failure on an AID gives -1, not -2.

* DROP (ie, drop an object) is renamed RELEASE.

* ESCAPE (from a grapple) is now considered a standard action.

* READY: clarifies you can't ready a free action that already has a trigger.

* SEEK: GM can choose to waive the "30 foot cone or 15 foot burst" rule. Now has a Critical Success effect.

* SENSE MOTIVE: now considered a standard action.

* STEP: added that you can't step using movement other than Land speed.

* TAKE COVER: you can now take cover just by being Prone.

* AVERT GAZE and GRAB AN EDGE are now standard actions, but BREATHE DEEP isn't.

* MOUNT only requires that the creature is willing to be your mount, not that it has to be specifically an animal companion or Handled.

* SHIELD BLOCK is gone.

* CAST A SPELL: No more different actions for different components of the spell. Instead, each spell lists the duration of the Cast A Spell activity, and that activity requires all components.

* Exploration mode: no activities cause Fatigue automatically. The only activity that may cause fatigue is Repeating a Spell and this is based on GM fiat only. The maximum speed at which you can Search is increased. You don't need to Defend to have your weapon out while exploring. Looking Out now gives an initiative bonus if/when an encounter starts.


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Some spells:

* ABYSSAL PLAGUE: now deals Evil damage on a successful save as well as weakning saves against future Abyssal Plague.

* ACID ARROW: now deals 3d8+1d6 persistent, not 1d8+SAM+1d6 persistent. Heightening increases base damage by 2d8, not 1d8.

* ACID SPLASH: deals d6s, not d4s.

* AREIAL FORM: aerial form's AC now scales with level.

* AIR WALK: lasts 5 minutes instead of 1.

* ALARM: no changes, but for some peculiar reason the example was changed from ".. people with red hair" to ".. masked people".

* ANIMAL FORM: now level 2. Animal's AC now scales with level. Gives Athletics modifier +9, not +11, and attack bonus of +9, not +10. Bear's speed is 30' not 25'. Now clarifies that Shark can't breathe out of water (!!)

* ANIMAL MESSENGER: now lasts until message is delivered, not 1 week.

* AVATAR: AC now scales with level. Athletics modifier becomes +35, not +31.

* BALEFUL POLYMORPH: critical failure on the save can transform the target permanently, even if spell isn't Heightened.

* BANE: now has a Will save.

* BARKSKIN: lasts 10 minutes, not 1; and gives resistance 2 (not 1) and weakness 3 (not 2). If the target takes fire damage they can dismiss the spell immediately after taking the damage.

* BLADE BARRIER: base damage is 7d8, not 6d8.

* BLESS: now starts with only 5' aura but can be expanded with standard actions.

* BLINK: can now be Heightened to increase resistence to 8.

* BLUR: states that the concealment provided by the spell can't be used to Hide or Sneak.

* BREATH OF LIFE: prevents dying and gives hit points, thus disabling the dying condition immediately.


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DOMINATE: Has the incapacitate trait, can now target all creatures at level 6, nice. The only Heighten is 10th, which makes the duration infinite and allows uber-casters to collect their traditional armies of dominated minions, the Runelords continuity is safe.


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/start Pedantry, spelling-nazi'ism and teeth grinding

STAVES not staffs, g*~+~+n you!

/end Pendantry, spelling-nazi'ism and teeth grinding
...

Sorry, it's a bit of a sore point.


I think this needs a shared source, so see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a66WYV3dQKptyDLAbaFsORIZgGzxJNwvdNuuT4S p13g/edit?usp=sharing . I've set it open for comments, edit permission for those who want to contribute.


Concealment now applies to targeted spells, not just ranged attacks with spells.


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Persistent damage has a flat check of 15 instead of 20 to go away.

It takes two, not one, action from your or an ally to buy an extra check to stop persistent damage.

The assisted check is still 15 unless you use particularly apt means to bring it down to 10, or in rare cases auto succeed. So have water to stop fire or a base for acid or you're burning most of your actions for an extra 30% chance.


hyphz wrote:

I think this needs a shared source, so see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a66WYV3dQKptyDLAbaFsORIZgGzxJNwvdNuuT4S p13g/edit?usp=sharing . I've set it open for comments, edit permission for those who want to contribute.

Link doesn't work for me.


Captain Morgan wrote:
hyphz wrote:

I think this needs a shared source, so see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a66WYV3dQKptyDLAbaFsORIZgGzxJNwvdNuuT4S p13g/edit?usp=sharing . I've set it open for comments, edit permission for those who want to contribute.

Link doesn't work for me.

For some reason the forum put a space before "p13g". Remove the space and it works.


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hyphz wrote:

I think this needs a shared source, so see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a66WYV3dQKptyDLAbaFsORIZgGzxJNwvdNuuT4S p13g/edit?usp=sharing . I've set it open for comments, edit permission for those who want to contribute.

AVERT GAZE and GRAB AN EDGE are now standard actions

How can grabbing an edge be an action? Shouldn't it be a reaction?


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lordcirth wrote:


AVERT GAZE and GRAB AN EDGE are now standard actions

How can grabbing an edge be an action? Shouldn't it be a reaction?

Sorry, I meant that grabbing an edge is now in the basic actions section rather than in the Athletics/Acrobatics section.


Haven't seen it myself but I'm told Animal Companions are still garbage

Liberty's Edge

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Greylurker wrote:
Haven't seen it myself but I'm told Animal Companions are still garbage

Depends on your definitions. They still only have two actions, but their stats are better.

A Mature Bear, for example, at 6th level, has +12 to hit for 2d8+4 damage, AC 21, and 62 HP.

A Ranger of the same level has +15 to hit, 2d8+4 damage, AC 23, and probably 80 HP or so.

So...that's not as good, but it shouldn't be. Comparatively, 6th level enemies have AC 23-26 or so, and you can flank with your animal companion, giving you each an effective +2 to hit.

That's actually pretty good offensively, and not terrible defensively.


So, to answer my own question about fog/smoke, this is what rules now say: (smoke is same, just with rules for inhaling it)

Quote:
Fog imposes a circumstance penalty to visual Perception checks, depending on the thickness; it causes creatures viewed through significant amounts of fog to be concealed

So it doesn't give ANY indication of what 'significant' means here, and this only specifies Concealment not lesser degrees of awareness.

Actually, the tiers of Perception rules even mention Fog in passing ("Your target might be in a deep fogbank or behind a waterfall") as potentially causing Hidden Condition, which is analogous to Full Concealment. Yet somehow the Fog/Smoke rules not only don't specify range conditions for normal Concealment, they don't even mention that Fog can also further escalate to Hidden Condition. Even when aware of those two rules detailed in different sections, the distinction between them is totally unclear with normal Concealment resulting from "significant amount of fog" and Hidden Condition resulting from "deep fogbank".

I could go on, but will post further thoughts on this topic in distinct thread.


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Somatic casting doesn't require a free hand for anyone. (late playtest update made true that for clerics/paladins, but not wizards/sorcerers)

You still can't cast while restrained, but you can even make touch attacks with the back of your hand while dual wielding (or holding a staff properly).

Material and Focus components require a free hand, however.


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Correct GDoc URL: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a66WYV3dQKptyDLAbaFsORIZgGzxJNwvdNuuT4S p13g/edit?usp=sharing

Skills

RECALL KNOWLEDGE, DECIPHER WRITING, IDENTIFY MAGIC, LEARN A SPELL, EARN AN INCOME: are now general purpose actions rather than being defined separately for each of the skills that offered variants on them. This means that some skills, such as Occultism and Religion, no longer have any separately defined action..

DECIPHER WRITING: can break coded text on a Critical Success. On a regular failure, gives a -2 penalty to future attempts to understand the text.

IDENTIFY MAGIC: takes 10 minutes, not an hour.

RECALL KNOWLEDGE: now has a critical success that gives additional information.

Acrobatics
MAINTAIN BALANCE is no longer listed.

MANUEVER IN FLIGHT no longer has a critical success, but does have a critical failure. The effect is GM fiat, as is the nature of the maneuver.

SQUEEZE is now considered trained only, but clarified it applies only to exceptionally small spaces.

READ MAGIC is now considered a case of DECIPHER WRITING.

Athletics
BREAK GRAPPLE: now merged into ESCAPE.

CLIMB: You now climb 5 feet per 20 feet of normal Speed, not a flat 5 or 10 feet based on a single Speed threshold. A critical success now adds a flat 5’, rather than increasing value to half your speed.

BREAK OPEN: now renamed FORCE OPEN. States that attempting to pry something open without a crowbar suffers a -2 penalty, but does not indicate that all uses of Force Open constitute prying.

GRAPPLE: no longer works on a target two sizes bigger than you.

LONG JUMP: DC is now equal to number of feet jumped, not number of feet jumped +5.

SHOVE: no longer works on a target two sizes bigger than you. Clarified that moving after your target constitutes a Stride.

SWIM: now uses the same formula as Climb. Breath holding is counted in rounds, not actions.

TRIP: no longer works on a target two sizes bigger than you.

DISARM: no longer works on a target two sizes bigger than you. Non-critical Successes now apply a circumstance penalty to the opponent reflecting their weakened grip on the item.

IDENTIFY ALCHEMY: DC is now secret.

Crafting
REPAIR: now requires a flat surface and both hands as well as a repair kit. Written in terms of HP, not Dents.

CRAFT: A minimum Proficiency is now needed in Crafting to craft items above certain levels, not just a character level. Crafting always takes a minimum 4 days with no reduction for level. Clarified that you can try again after failing or critically failing.

Deception
CREATE A DIVERSION: You become hidden rather than sensed. If you Strike an opponent while they are diverted, they are flat-footed against your attack.

IMPERSONATE: Now has a critical failure (the target knows you are in disguise, and can identify who you are under the disguise)

Diplomacy
GATHER INFORMATION: A single check now takes 2 hours, rather than a full day for 3-4 checks.

REQUEST: A Critical Success no longer causes the target to agree to something that would normally require a better attitude.

DEMORALIZE: No longer has lingual/linguistic trait. Critical Success no longer causes target to flee. The target is always temporarily immune to future Demoralization for 10 minutes, not just on a critical failure.

Medicine
ADMINISTER FIRST AID, TREAT WOUNDS: updated version for v1.6 death/dying rules.

TREAT DISEASE, TREAT POISON: cannot be retried until after the target’s next save against the disease or poison.

Nature
COMMAND AN ANIMAL is now merged with HANDLE AN ANIMAL: giving a command requires a Nature check against the animal’s Will.

Society
CREATE A FORGERY: The DC 20 check against your Society skill is made secretly at the time the forgery is created, not when it is first examined.

Stealth
CONCEAL AN OBJECT: once a Stealth roll is made for an object, the same roll is used for sneaking it past other observers.

HIDE: you gain your cover circumstance bonus to the Stealth check. You can Step and remain hidden. If you Strike while hidden, the target is flat-footed against your attack.

SNEAK: you are now only seen by the target on a critical failure. A failure gives away your position but does not mean they saw you move.

Survival
SENSE DIRECTION: You take a -2 penalty for not having a compass. Now has a critical success which tells you exactly where directions are.

SURVIVE IN THE WILD: no longer listed here.

TRACK: Now has a critical failure effect which loses the trail for 24 hours.

Thievery

STEAL: A closely guarded object is now stolen at a -5 penalty, rather than being impossible to steal.

DISABLE A DEVICE: Now takes two actions, not one.

PICK A LOCK: Now takes two actions, not one. You always break your tools on a critical failure, rather than losing successes.


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Escape has been entirely rewritten, actually. You can use it via unarmed strike, athletics, or escape artist, but all 3 have the attack trait. So it accrues MAP. Escaping from ropes is against the thievery DC of the person who tied you up.

Critical success lets you escape and stride five feet away.

Success just lets you escape.

Critical Failure means you can't attempt to escape the rest of the turn, but your condition doesn't seem to worsen. Given the decreasing odds of success, this doesn't seem so bad.

All that really changes the paradigm around being grabbed, I think. Monsters with the Grab special ability are DANGEROUS.


You don't need/get proficiency with shields anymore it seems. Anyone can pick one up and use raise a shield without worrying about their class being proficient or not.

Liberty's Edge

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Paradozen wrote:
You don't need/get proficiency with shields anymore it seems. Anyone can pick one up and use raise a shield without worrying about their class being proficient or not.

Indeed. However, as previously mentioned, the Shield Block reaction is no longer universally available, though, being Feat locked. Which seems worth repeating.


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hyphz wrote:
Correct GDoc URL:

Clickified

Dark Archive

Voss wrote:

Somatic casting doesn't require a free hand for anyone. (late playtest update made true that for clerics/paladins, but not wizards/sorcerers)

You still can't cast while restrained, but you can even make touch attacks with the back of your hand while dual wielding (or holding a staff properly).

Material and Focus components require a free hand, however.

Somatic casting actually never required a free hand for wizards or sorcerers - the Cleric and Druid were required to hold a focus though, which was removed later in the playtest.


LuniasM wrote:
Voss wrote:

Somatic casting doesn't require a free hand for anyone. (late playtest update made true that for clerics/paladins, but not wizards/sorcerers)

You still can't cast while restrained, but you can even make touch attacks with the back of your hand while dual wielding (or holding a staff properly).

Material and Focus components require a free hand, however.

Somatic casting actually never required a free hand for wizards or sorcerers - the Cleric and Druid were required to hold a focus though, which was removed later in the playtest.

It did, wands and staves had a specific exception allowing somatic components to be made with one in hand.


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Conditions:

ACCELERATED, ASLEEP, ENERVATED, ENTANGLED, HAMPERED: Gone.

BLINDED, DEAFENED: You always critically fail checks requiring sight orl hearing, rather than potentially just regular failing if it’s worse.

CONFUSED: target selection is now GM fiat. No dice roll to determine target, no chance to act normally, and no automatic targetting of anyone who has targetted you. However, any damage done to you triggers a flat check to stop being confused.

CONTROLLED, CLUMSY, DOOMED, HIDDEN, INVISIBLE, OBSERVED, SENSED, UNDETECTED, UNNOTCIED: new.

DYING: automatically lost as soon as any HP are gained, as in playtest 1.6.

ENCUMBERED: now rewritten in terms of Clumsy.

ENFEEBLED: only gives its penalty on Strength-based melee attack rolls, not all attack rolls.

FATIGUED: penalty no longer increases with actions taken.

FRIENDLY, HELPFUL, HOSTILE, UNFRIENDLY: no longer give bonuses or penalties to deception and diplomacy actions.

FRIGHTENED: clarified that penalty applies to DCs as well as checks and saves.

IMMOBILIZED: renamed from IMMOBILE.

PARALYZED: now prevents Seek actions also.

PERSISTENT DAMAGE: flat check to remove damage is now 15 even without others’ help. Effect of being helped is a GM fiat choice between reducing the flat check to 10 or immediately ending the damage.

PETRIFIED: clarified that you do not age while turned to stone. Your statue can be destroyed, but not given the Broken condition.

PRONE: no longer automatically gives +1 AC against ranged attacks, but gives the opportunity to Take Cover instead.

QUICKENED: renamed from QUICK. Clarified that it does not give you an extra action at the moment you become quickened.

RESTRAINED: now allows Force Open to be used to escape as well as Escape.

SICKENED: renamed from SICK. Clarified that penalty applies to DCs as well as checks.

SLOWED: no longer prevents Readying.

STUNNED: rewritten. Now reduces your actions each turn by your Stunned value, then reduces Stunned by one.

STUPEFIED: the check to cast a spell while Stupefied is now based on the Stupefied level, not the DC of the creature that gave you the condition.

UNCONSCIOUS: now gives penalty to Perception and Reflex saves as well as AC. Added rules for v1.6 playtest update to dying rules.

WOUNDED: from v1.6 playtest update.


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Hopping over to general rules in the bestiary for a moment, Frightful Presence no longer sends a creature fleeing even on a critical failure. This seems to be a trend among fear effects-- Demoralize doesn't send creatures fleeing without a specific skill feat anymore, and I think some other monsters might have lost their fleeing powers as well.

I have mixed feelings on this-- a dragon's Frightful Presence literally scattering armies is a pretty flavorful ability and some of our most iconic moments have involved a Yeth Hound or a Bunyip sending PCs fleeing into danger. On the other hand, those abilities also basically stop someone from being able to play for however many rounds it lasted-- even fleeing for one round often meant losing two full turns.


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On another bestiary note: demons seems to have walked back their sin association mechanics a bit. They don't have the elemental weaknesses tagged to different sins in their statblocks anymore and I haven't seen a side bar on it.

I think I'm fine with this. Makes it harder to convert or homebrew new demons, as I noticed as I was making Yeth Hounds.


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hyphz wrote:

Conditions:

STUNNED: rewritten. Now reduces your actions each turn by your Stunned value, then reduces Stunned by one.

It actually reduces by the number of actions you lost. So if you are Stunned 4 you lose your 3 actions, end turn and become stunned 1.

Dark Archive

Xenocrat wrote:
LuniasM wrote:
Voss wrote:

Somatic casting doesn't require a free hand for anyone. (late playtest update made true that for clerics/paladins, but not wizards/sorcerers)

You still can't cast while restrained, but you can even make touch attacks with the back of your hand while dual wielding (or holding a staff properly).

Material and Focus components require a free hand, however.

Somatic casting actually never required a free hand for wizards or sorcerers - the Cleric and Druid were required to hold a focus though, which was removed later in the playtest.
It did, wands and staves had a specific exception allowing somatic components to be made with one in hand.

Ok, I just checked and while I was wrong that it never required a free hand for Wizards/Sorcerers the free hand requirement for the Somatic Casting action was removed for everybody in Update 1.6. The update removed the Requirements entry, which stated "Requirements: You have a free hand." The specific references to the Cleric and Druid just removed the sections about using a Divine or Primal focus instead of having a hand free, since removing the Requirement clause made that unnecessary.


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Xenocrat wrote:
DOMINATE: Has the incapacitate trait, can now target all creatures at level 6, nice. The only Heighten is 10th, which makes the duration infinite and allows uber-casters to collect their traditional armies of dominated minions, the Runelords continuity is safe.

just to clarify that you can still Heighten the spell to get the Incapacitate trait to work on higher level enemies, it just doesn't get anything extra apart from bypassing levels/cr until it's Heighten to 10th.


Some rather peculiar rules ones:

TRIGGERS: You can no longer take both a reaction and a free action on the same trigger.

DARKNESS: While in darkness and able to see into a lit area, you no longer treat targets in the lit area as concealed.


hyphz wrote:

Some rather peculiar rules ones:

TRIGGERS: You can no longer take both a reaction and a free action on the same trigger.

DARKNESS: While in darkness and able to see into a lit area, you no longer treat targets in the lit area as concealed.

Pretty sure that reaction and free action thing was already in the playtest. Good catch on the darkness though.


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If it was, it would have been in an update I guess?

Playtest, P297, heading "Triggers":
"You can use only 1 free action on a single trigger, but you can take both a free action and a reaction on the same trigger."

Release, P462, heading "Limitations on Triggers":
"You can only use one action in response to a given trigger. For example, if you had a reaction and a free action that both had a trigger of 'your turn begins,' you could use either of them at the start of your turn but not both."


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DROWNING AND SUFFOCATING: You can hold your breath for 5+Con rounds, not Con actions; but there is no Breathe Deep action. Air is no longer lost by performing actions other than speaking, but being critically hit costs a round worth of air.

DCS: Now a single table of DCs and of modifiers to apply to them, rather than multiple columns of DCs for different difficulty levels.

CRAFT DC: Repairing an item usually uses the standard DC for the item, not the “low DC” (ie, the DC with the Easy modifier)

RESONANCE: Is removed. All characters by default can invest 10 magic items per day, and only items with the Invested trait require investment.

ITEM QUALITY: no longer exists, other than the ability to produce “shoddy” items. All items, even shoddy ones, can be etched with Runes.

ACTIVATE AN ITEM: no longer costs Resonance. As with spell casting, activation components are no longer separate actions, but a single activity which encompasses all such components.

DISRUPTING ACTIVATIONS: Gone. Activations can still be disrupted by effects that specifically cause disruption, but not by receiving damage during the activation process.

CASTING A SPELL FROM A SCROLL: The level of the scroll no longer limits the attack roll and spell DC of spells cast from it, although such spells still cannot be Heightened.

TALISMANS: Renamed from Trinkets. Attaching one is now a special action AFFIX A TALISMAN, not a special case of Repair.

PREPARING A STAFF: Renamed from Investing A Staff. You can prepare a staff only if you have at least one of the staff’s spells on your spell list.

CASTING SPELLS FROM A STAFF: Implies that a staff would typically be held in one hand, not two. Casting spells from a staff can only be done by expending charges from the staff, not by spending your own spell slots. But spontaneous casters can reduce the cost of a spell to 1 staff charge by spending a spell slot as well as that charge.


Captain Morgan wrote:

On another bestiary note: demons seems to have walked back their sin association mechanics a bit. They don't have the elemental weaknesses tagged to different sins in their statblocks anymore and I haven't seen a side bar on it.

I think I'm fine with this. Makes it harder to convert or homebrew new demons, as I noticed as I was making Yeth Hounds.

They still do have the weakness dependent on sin, it's just different now. The mutilation demon, for example, takes damage every time damage they dealt is healed within a round.


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I was really happy when I learned the minimum length of a ritual was reduced from 8 hours to 1.


I just noticed recently that bleachling is no longer a gnome heritage, which makes me sad because I had a concept for a bleachling gnome barbarian that basically used rage as a drug since it's the only time she felt strong emotion.


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Corwin Icewolf wrote:
I just noticed recently that bleachling is no longer a gnome heritage, which makes me sad because I had a concept for a bleachling gnome barbarian that basically used rage as a drug since it's the only time she felt strong emotion.

Nothing is stopping you from being a Bleachling Gnome though, it just isn't mutually exclusive with other Heritages.


Pretty sure this changed!

Sorcerer repertoire wrote:
You add to this spell repertoire as you increase in level. Each time you get a spell slot (see Table 3–17), you add a spell of the same level to your spell repertoire. When you gain access to a new level of spells, your first new spell is always your bloodline spell, but you can choose the other spells you gain.

I thought bloodline spells remained extra at 2nd level and above, not a mandatory part of your repertoire. Big change, totally adjusted my opinion of the total dominance of the sorcerer over the wizard.


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Xenocrat wrote:

Pretty sure this changed!

Sorcerer repertoire wrote:
You add to this spell repertoire as you increase in level. Each time you get a spell slot (see Table 3–17), you add a spell of the same level to your spell repertoire. When you gain access to a new level of spells, your first new spell is always your bloodline spell, but you can choose the other spells you gain.
I thought bloodline spells remained extra at 2nd level and above, not a mandatory part of your repertoire. Big change, totally adjusted my opinion of the total dominance of the sorcerer over the wizard.

Correction: This particular wording is misleading, but the immediately following example and the granted spell text make it clear that the intent is that you get both your granted bloodline spell and eventually three selectable spells per level.

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