First Impression Cantrips changes suggestions

Psychic Class

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I like a lot that you basically have a lot of options for focus spells right at lvl1 and basically can use them every turn in the battle, and the class is interesting but the cantrips do need to be a bit stronger.

My suggestions:

Distant Grasp

Mage Hand -
Let you use the hand to grab enemy weapons (use disarm on a success you pick with the hand) and trip with it (grabbing the creature legs with psychic energy)

Telekinetic Projectile - 1d10 instead and/or push on success

Telekinetic Rend - 1d4/spell level + spellcasting - Amp doubles that, makes the scalling more linear and make around the same power level as the flame oracle focus spell that is similar.

Arrest Trajectory - Maybe make it work on any physical attack but the amp only working with projectile as the ability is now. Let the bonus start at +2.

Infinite Eye

Detect Magic - Maybe give some resistance against magic while using it equal to the spell level.

Guidance - Remove the oncer per hour when you amp it.

Mental Scan - Just specify what you roll in the Aid.

Future Path - Reducing to one action in the amp.

Silent Whisper

Daze - Make it sustained that you can repeat every turn after when you sustain.

Message - Fine at it is.

Nudge Intent - Maybe add an Stride on it. Amp forces that the intent needs to be the first action done.

Shatter Mind - 1d6 per spell level with the amp doubles that, the area does not increase to keep the higher power in check

I really like most of these suggestions! The class definitely needs some extra juice right now

That sounds like a pretty good list. I think telekinetic projectile would be cooler with the guaranteed shove.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Also I'm hoping the final product can interact with the shield cantrip in an interesting way like the sparkling targes magus. maybe it's an easy thing to balance so they didn't bother including it.....but literal force fields scream "psychic" to me

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I think there should be a design change with the cantrips, each style should have 3 base cantrips that have a buff, a damage and a utility effect respectively. Here is how i would have done it.

Distant grasp:
Mage hand- Amp allow it to do interact actions and work on attended objects (steal attempt required vs hostile). Heightened at 3rd or 4th to allow telekinetic maneuver

Telekinetic projectile- Have it be the damage option, changing all damage die to d8s and making it attack all in a 5ft burst. Amp heighten +2 to increase burst size by 5 ft. So at 3rd level it would be a 3d8 10ft burst, at 5th its a 5d8 15ft burst, etc.

New cantrip: Ablative Barrier- Target gets temp hp = to spell level + casting mod. Amp gives it the effects of shield but you can use your reaction to shield block.

Infinite Eye:
Detect Magic- same, but allow the buffs to work on allies instead of just you.

guidance- Get rid of this! The one hour cool down doesn't work and detect magic covers the buff option. replace with
Know direction- I know, no one takes this cantrip. But have the amp act like the spell locate at 3rd and 5th level and have it be like 60 ft at 1st.

Mental Scan- Keep but for the amp give all allies some precision damage instead of the +1 to hit/damage. This is the damage option.

Silent Whisper

Message- No changes, this is the buff option

Nudge intent- remove this, maybe set this as the level 4 with some buffs to its effects (let it actually dominate or something similar). Put Shatter Mind as the level 1 ability with base damage of 1d6 instead of 3d6 but the amp instead of 30/60 ft cone has add 5ft to the cone size per level and change the damage heighten to +1 for 1d6 instead of +2. So at 1st its 1d6 cone for 20 ft with the stupified and at 4th its a 4d6 cone at 30 ft.

Ghost sound- allow intelligible sounds, give bonuses to deception checks as it heightens.

A character that focuses on Focus Spells should have good focus spells to use since they lose 2 spells/level for it.

Therefor I think it is fair to compare it to other classes that have strong focus spells like Druid.

Telekinetic suggestions

Tempest Surge/Updraft/Crushing Ground all deal 1d12/2d6 per spell level with a good rider on failure. I think it is fair to have TKP at this level as well. 1d10 + knockback on success would feel good as an amp (bear in mind the druid spells also deal damage on success so even 1d12 would not be out of the question imo).

For Mage Hand I def think allowing it to replicate other TK spells at higher levels is very fair and would make you feel like a master of TK.

H+3 - Telekinetic Maneuver
H+6 - Telekinetic Haul

You could raise them to H+4/H+7 as well.

Telekinetic Rend would do great at Amp (H+) 2d6/lvl, maybe start the damage a bit lower and this would be very comparable to Elemental Blast.
Unamped 1d6/lvl would be very comparable to electric arc/scattering spree.

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Amped cantrips though, are basically spammable, so they should probably be just short of the best focus spells.

2 people marked this as a favorite.

They should be the same power level as the best focus spells, because those are also somewhat spamable and the extra uses are made up for the fact that the class has 1-2 less spells per level.

A sorcerer with dragon breath does a 30 ft cone doing 5d6 at 5th level, increasing by 2d6 every heighten, and that can also be affected by metamagic which amps can not. They also have 2 more spells of each level. If amp'ed cantrips aren't at least at dragon breath level why the heck would we choose to be one.

Oracle is perhaps a better comparison, they get their focus powers 3x per day by 17 (psychic have to spend their 18th level feat to do the same) so they have the same amount of focus usage outside of unleashing. They have 1 extra spell per day. Lets compare level 19 casters using whirling flames vs telekinetic rend. Whirling flames does 14d6 in 5 5ft bursts. Telekinetic rend does 10d6 in 2 5ft bursts. I know which one i would choose. Also oracle has better hp and better armor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
vagrant-poet wrote:
Amped cantrips though, are basically spammable, so they should probably be just short of the best focus spells.

It's not as if all else is equal but Psychic gets to use their focus spells more, they do pay a very heavy cost for it.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Dark Archive Playtest / Psychic Class / First Impression Cantrips changes suggestions All Messageboards
Recent threads in Psychic Class