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regarding the whole creating things for money, the Lost Omen's travel guide has a section on trade and it addresses magically created goods and trade. Specifically you can use magic goods yourself without issue but trying to sell it gets the church of abadar to hunt you down.

Question for the developers who may see this, Roiling mudslide says it does damage to all creatures in the area but doesn’t say what the area is. What should the area be?

Since some of us now have rage of elements I thought that having a single place to put these questions might be useful. I will start off…

Roiling mudslide says it does damage to all creatures in the area but doesn’t say what the area is.

Quite a few of the feats could have con tied to them that do not. Examples:
Flinging updraft level 10 expansion could be con mod instead of up to 5. Wings of Air Lvl 14 too.
I'd accept con limits on the number of targets with kindle inner flames if it removed the "next strike each target makes before end of its next turn" from the last sentence.
Ignite the Sun could have con mod targets in the light instead of "you and each of your allies within 20ft of the sun".
Return to the sea level 8
Torrent in the blood would be better with con targets in the cone getting healing as right now its pretty much only useful outside of combat due to healing enemies.
Glacial Prison should have con in targets since the effect is so damn weak.
Chain blast could be "to a maximum of con modifier targets" instead of 5... it is now apparent to me that for some reason they really like 5 targets in this play test.

They could also alter the key words to make con more important to the class. Since Aura Shaping allows you to ignore con mod targets, adding the same to the Overload keyword would make all these areas so much better without requiring them to increase the damage and not be outside of theme. They could also add a feat that added con mod squares adjacent to an area on Overload.

Ferocious Cyclone:

A big linear wind blast. Averages 38.5 damage and increases by 5.5 every... 3 levels. Remember what I said about the last one that scaled this way? This tops out at 49.5. But this is only two actions, so I think it's okay? The push, as usual, isn't very relevant I feel. Now, my real suggestion here is thematic. Make this a fortitude save. You don't dodge this, you withstand it. Also, maybe make it a double wide line.

This is already a double wide line, the area is a 10 ft wide 60ft line. Most lines are 5ft wide.

Perhaps add ignore con modifier targest on overload. Then rhe aura feet still has its own big bonus. Would offset the lower damage by enabling more targets. Would still need better single target but the aoe would be a nice niche

I agree that extract element working on anything with a resistance to your element is a good idea, but only because dedicated fire kineticists are currently completely helpless against devils.

Chain blast seems like the only really good feat, and it only feels good because its a "sort of AoE".

I was expecting a bunch of AoE abilities, but the really good ones are literally level 18 feats with overflow. Everything else is 10-ft and 20-ft bursts with a few cones.

The aura feat is stupidly good for water and fire, 20-30 ft aura of damage =to level that is safe for your friends is pretty damn good.

There is too much healing in this edition to have that work and be balanced.

RexAliquid wrote:

manbearscientist wrote:

Saedar wrote:

manbearscientist wrote:

That said, I'm somewhat skeptical that Elemental Blast is intended to be their core weapon. It certainly isn't scaled that way. It seems that on-demand impulses are supposed to be the main damage, outside of outliers like Chain Blasts.

I don't really buy this. There are several feats that build off Elemental Blast across the level spectrum. They clearly think it is something that can be built towards.

Yes, but once you get those feats it is almost always terrible to use Elemental Blast itself. It is not at all comparable to any martial's attack; it is both less accurate and less damaging. For the first 6 levels of the game Elemental Blast caps out at "deals the same damage as a Sorcerer with a longsword and strength as a secondary stat".

IDK, longsword damage from 20 ft away seems pretty decent to me. The elven sorcerer with a longbow can't do that.

except it's not longsword damage, you're not adding a stat to it.

I'm going to guess you haven't played a dex fighter then, I am well used to not adding a stat.

Onkonk wrote:

Wrestler is not a 3rd-party archetype, unless you're refering to something else I missed in the post.

Oh neat. It wasn't on the PF2 easy tool yet and when I googled it the first results were third party products.

Its one of the 3 archetypes from lost omens: grand bazaar

The Fatal die does not get doubled, as it's damage dependent on a critical hit. See here. But Fatal is still generally worth more than Deadly of the same value, since it also increases the size of the base weapon dice, which still get doubled.

Well then that annoys me that deadly explicitly says that and fatal doesn't. If neither had said they don't double i would have checked the doubling rule but when one does and one doesn't your less likely to look at the general rule.

its 1d6+1 on an normal hit but 2x(2d8+2) on a crit. And gunslinger have +2 to hit over all non fighter classes so you crit much more often. While deadly's extra weapon die doesn't get doubled fatal does so they are much more swingy on damage.

the ammunition is automatically loaded each time the weapon is cocked to fire

Cocking a crossbow uses a hand because cocking a crossbow requires you to use said hand to pull back the rope. As soon as you do so the bolt falls into position and is loaded. At least that is how every single old style repeating crossbow ive seen works.

edit: here is an example of a repeating crossbow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drQnaLXkifo

So, there is a new archetype called spell trickster in Lost Omens Grand Bazaar. It's feats all alter spells. This archetype kinda steals the telekinetic psychic's thunder as you can have a mage hand that can disable device and shove people now.

I would love if the amp feats in psychic worked more like how the feats in this archetype work.

for shatter space it would be nice if it was start their turn OR first time they enter in a round. Currently if you use it on yourself there is no reason for an enemy not to get into melee with you which doesn't fit the description of the ability.

Not sure, does this work?

I presumed the magic wavecaster would be the kineticist, presumably coming out in an elemental planes themed book.

a feat that would allow you to replace item dcs with class dc would seem to be on brand for the thaumaturge.

I agree the class could benefit with some class feats that reference charisma more. Thaumaturge's Investiture is a nice example of a feat that could be good and references charisma. I kinda wish that feat was earlier, perhaps switching one more activation with it and having one more activation work charisma times a day but only once per item.

I have never had a character who actually used up all of it's investiture but if there was an early feat chain that involved investiture maybe i would be willing to spend my money on cheap 1/day items.

I look forward to kineticist with cantrip modification being their stick and being the blaster version of wave casting. Of course, i wouldn't mind them not having any actual spell casting either.

2 instead of three isn't 50%.

I believe he is comparing to pure spellcasters sorcerer and wizard who get 4 spells per day (wizards chart shows 3 but their school gives 1 more)

The ones who get 3 get significant other benefits,
bard has better proficiencies/saves, more hp, and very powerful cantrip abilities.
Witches are supposed to have more powerful cantrips and focus spells (though IMO they tend to be weak overall)
Druid gets better hp, proficiencies/saves, and much more powerful feat chains tied to their orders.
Oracle gets better armor and hp, automatic increases in focus points and more powerful focus powers plus curse which may be beneficial or negative (cosmos resist all physical up to 12 is pretty darn good)
Cleric has better proficiencies/saves, more hp, and divine font which is usually 3-5 extra spells of your highest level.

The Psychic does not get better proficiencies/saves/hp so it's bonus stuff has to be twice as good as bard/witch/druid/oracle. Please note they also know less spells than sorcerers due to how spontaneous casters get spells into their repertoire.

And the gap in power is a little uneven between types. I mean, Telekinetic Rend is actually hella powerful at 5th level when compared to the similar 5th level spell Lightning Storm. Especially in the base Unleash.

Base unleash only works on spells from spell slots. Also at 5th level its 2 5 ft bursts within 30 ft of 6d6 total damage (average 21) vs 1 5 ft burst within 120 ft for 4d12 (average 26) which can be repeated every round for 1 minute (so up to 260 damage average on 1 target). It never works out that way but on paper lightning storm is much more powerful.

basically free amps from the third turn until the end. Every fight.

This presumes that each fight lasts until round 3 (i have had many fights that don't) and also precludes the opportunity cost of using the cantrips over your spell slot spells. You only have 3 actions per round, you could use tk rend at level 5 to do 2 5ft bursts for 4d6 damage but that means your not casting heroism/haste on your melee damage dealer or controlling the field with Oneiric Mire. Or choosing to be a sorcerer and firballing the field for more damage with your extra 2 spells of that level :P

If you don't use 2 focus points in the first 2 rounds then the amp bonus of the unleash doesn't actually matter. Its why Message and Mental scan are so good as they are 1 action so they don't screw over any other spell you want to use.

I am pretty sure its gm's decision from the base aid rules

"When you use your Aid reaction, attempt a skill check or attack roll of a type decided by the GM. The typical DC is 20, but the GM might adjust this DC for particularly hard or easy tasks. The GM can add any relevant traits to your preparatory action or to your Aid reaction depending on the situation, or even allow you to Aid checks other than skill checks and attack rolls."

I think they could go wellspring, but for level 1 all your casting is cantrips and wellspring really wouldnt kick in until level 2. It does make the surges weird since you could not benefit but you would still roll for that 25% chance of wild surge.

I think i have figured out why i dislike tk rend so much. It should be amped scatter scree.

Status bonuses to saves vs spells is maybe a little situational, but getting it for 3 rounds out of a cantrip, and getting it up to +2 by 5th level is pretty good too.

That would be pretty good for a cantrip, but its not a cantrip, its a focus power. I think that is where people are having a disconnect, the amped functions shouldn’t be considered cantrips as they require a resource to use

Thaumaturge has an issue with the fact that he has 5 skills he needs to max in order to use his class main ability, Arcana, Nature, Occultism, Religion and society. He does get two free bumps for one of those (save for society) but it doesn't feel good to have to do this. This is what i think should change to fix this issue:

First, get rid of the skill training in arcana, nature occultism and religion. Also get rid of the bumps at 9 and 17.

Second, get rid of dubious knowledge (there is a reason for this, i will get back to this)

Third, All Thaumaturge get esoteric lore ability. Stress that its based off of rumors, talking to the fringe of society and eldritch beings in the flavor text so those that complain about the fact the flavor doesn't stress charisma. Since its from "not the most reliable sources" it has the effect of dubious knowledge when using it and doesn't benefit from easier recall knowledge dcs. Have it become expert at 3, master at 7 and legendary at 15. We do this because it makes it easier on the gms not to have to calculate out differing recall knowledge DCs. I would suggest that we make this special lore skill always work off of charisma and remove it from find flaws.

The good thing about this method is it removes the need to spend all your skill bumps increasing knowledge skill proficiencies but if you want your character to specialize in a specific lore they don't have to have dubious knowledge apply to their specialty and they can get some good bonuses. Also might allow multiclassing into thaumaturge to use something other than charisma for find flaws.

For Psychics Shatter Space and Unleash Poltergeist phenomena need to be "start your turn or the first time you enter the emanation each round." Right now people can apparently move into the areas, attack, and leave which does not meet the description of the ability.

So, for nudge intent, looking over the rules it seems that the amp stunned doesn't even affect them on the turn they get it. "Each time you regain actions (such as at the start of your turn), reduce your stunned value by the number of actions you lost". So the stunned would go for the turn after they disobeyed you. It would stop them from using reactions until then though. Not sure this is what they wanted.

They should be the same power level as the best focus spells, because those are also somewhat spamable and the extra uses are made up for the fact that the class has 1-2 less spells per level.

A sorcerer with dragon breath does a 30 ft cone doing 5d6 at 5th level, increasing by 2d6 every heighten, and that can also be affected by metamagic which amps can not. They also have 2 more spells of each level. If amp'ed cantrips aren't at least at dragon breath level why the heck would we choose to be one.

Oracle is perhaps a better comparison, they get their focus powers 3x per day by 17 (psychic have to spend their 18th level feat to do the same) so they have the same amount of focus usage outside of unleashing. They have 1 extra spell per day. Lets compare level 19 casters using whirling flames vs telekinetic rend. Whirling flames does 14d6 in 5 5ft bursts. Telekinetic rend does 10d6 in 2 5ft bursts. I know which one i would choose. Also oracle has better hp and better armor

The oracle will get 2 uses per combat at level 11 and 3 at 17 so they aren't that far behind since they get 3 spells per level in addition to their focus spells. at level 17 that is 3 uses of 14d6 in 5 5ft bursts. Telekinetic Red would be 10d6 in 2 5ft bursts 2 times per fight, up to 3 extras if they unleash. I know which one i would prefer.

That said, playtests tend to be lower power then the release so hopefully this will be fixed.

I think there should be a design change with the cantrips, each style should have 3 base cantrips that have a buff, a damage and a utility effect respectively. Here is how i would have done it.

Distant grasp:
Mage hand- Amp allow it to do interact actions and work on attended objects (steal attempt required vs hostile). Heightened at 3rd or 4th to allow telekinetic maneuver

Telekinetic projectile- Have it be the damage option, changing all damage die to d8s and making it attack all in a 5ft burst. Amp heighten +2 to increase burst size by 5 ft. So at 3rd level it would be a 3d8 10ft burst, at 5th its a 5d8 15ft burst, etc.

New cantrip: Ablative Barrier- Target gets temp hp = to spell level + casting mod. Amp gives it the effects of shield but you can use your reaction to shield block.

Infinite Eye:
Detect Magic- same, but allow the buffs to work on allies instead of just you.

guidance- Get rid of this! The one hour cool down doesn't work and detect magic covers the buff option. replace with
Know direction- I know, no one takes this cantrip. But have the amp act like the spell locate at 3rd and 5th level and have it be like 60 ft at 1st.

Mental Scan- Keep but for the amp give all allies some precision damage instead of the +1 to hit/damage. This is the damage option.

Silent Whisper

Message- No changes, this is the buff option

Nudge intent- remove this, maybe set this as the level 4 with some buffs to its effects (let it actually dominate or something similar). Put Shatter Mind as the level 1 ability with base damage of 1d6 instead of 3d6 but the amp instead of 30/60 ft cone has add 5ft to the cone size per level and change the damage heighten to +1 for 1d6 instead of +2. So at 1st its 1d6 cone for 20 ft with the stupified and at 4th its a 4d6 cone at 30 ft.

Ghost sound- allow intelligible sounds, give bonuses to deception checks as it heightens.

I think what hurts this feat the most is that Thaumaturge gets constant flight at level 16 and they are both on the same playtest.

An option to disarm (picking the weapon if you managed to do it) or trip (grabbing the creature legs) with it would make it more interesting.

The reason i didn't mention those is every distant grasp psychic will have telekinetic maneuver by level 3. If it could do the maneuvers that spell can do there would be little reason to have that spell

What is the point of spending a focus point for this spell. It seems to just change it from unattended to attended by you or a friendly creature and is easy to access. There is a bit which says "the hand grasps and holds the object before the hand moves the object" which might be supposed to mean something but seems to have no mechanical effect (I have no clue why this sentence is there, mage hand already says it grasps the target object).

As of now i see no reason to use this amp unless you really need to grab an allies secondary weapon from 30-60 feet away. Also the only alternate amps that work for it are warp space (not very useful) Inertial Barrier (only on yourself and why wouldn't you use any other psi cantrip) or Shatter space (ok, this isn't terrible)

If they got rid of the friendly creature limitation and allowed it to use the steal action using spell attack instead of thievery, allow fine manipulation at a distance (for disable device, opening doors, etc) or increase the max bulk it might be a decent option, but currently Distant Grasp has effectively 1 less amp than the other options.

Can anyone convince me that there are reasons to use your focus point on mage hand?

I don't think it's limited to five. In particular, I'm pretty sure that once one unleash runs out, you can just unleash again.

In the Unleash side bar it says you can not unleash again until you have refocused.

How about Spiked Gauntlets. Gives you a weapon and a free hand at the same time. d4 isn't as big a deal with the flat bonus, mechanically being equivalent of a d8.

How does free hand weapons work with Thaumaturge abilities? Could a weapon Implement gauntlet allow implement's empowerment using a great axe? What about a bow? How about Implement Adept?

guidance is good, but i wish the amp overrode the 1 hour cooldown between uses

Do they have to be underwhelming though? Because you are giving up 1-2 spells per level for the ability to use them more....

My big problem with the class is that every combat you can have up to 5-7 uses of amp (2 from points, 5 from lingering psyche) so you want to use them, but action economy makes you want to use your more powerful spell slots. Which makes the one action amp cantrips so much better then their alternatives. Giving people extra moves/attacks(or 1d6 slashing /2 levels with shatter space)[Message], giving large bonuses to hit (+2 is significant and is for 1 full round) [Mental scan] while still having the ability to cast a 2 action spell is better than 1 die size and potential knockback from tk projectile or whatever the heck amp'ed mage hand does.

The psychic gives up 1 or 2 spells per level compared to other primary casters to have these amp'ed spells so the damage ones need to be decent to make up for that loss. And each conscious mind type needs to have at least one 1 action cantrip or it loses out compared to the other types.

I'm not sure if it's been offered up before. What if Spellstrike allows you to use your weapon strike in place of the spell attack roll for Cantrips, keep the crit effect for Saving Throw spells. You could also cast spells without the sword to hit 2 targets with Electric Arc for example, but you aren't as good at it since your sword isn't involved.

I like this idea if it was for any spell attack not just cantrips. But I would prefer just giving Magus the spell proficiency full casters get. You will always be under a full caster due to not being able to have your caster stat as primary but that +2 feels significant and I kinda want to be able to fireball every now and then instead of being stuck using spellstrike or buffs.

Sucks that a class takes away a racial trait. Does that happen for any other class?

I guess halflings stick to being battle or life oracles.

The halfling keen eyes racial trait says "When you target an opponent that is concealed from you or hidden from you, reduce the DC of the flat check to 3 for a concealed target or 9 for a hidden one."

I presume this would count as mitigating the curse?

I think the curse would work better if you could go down to uncursed instead of minor curse being the minimum. Would make going to extreme and drained a choice and not an inevitability.

im pretty sure 1) is the rage specialization of your instinct.
2) whenever its a basic save its for the damage, You would use this as it doesn’t suffer from multi attack penalty

Also note that a monk can totally use a shield (and be captain america). They just don't get shield block for free.

going for both stunning fist and brawling specialization (They stack!)

Hate to tell you this but slow and stun only sort of stack.”Stunned overrides slowed. If the duration of your stunned condition ends while you are slowed, you count the actions lost to the stunned condition toward those lost to being slowed. So, if you were stunned 1 and slowed 2 at the beginning of your turn, you would lose 1 action from stunned” page 622.

Generally splash damage is a set number so bonuses to a "roll" wouldn't apply no matter what. Feats like barbarian's thrash also wouldn't benefit.

I just noticed that if a familiar "attempts an attack roll or other skill check, it uses your level as its modifier. "

So a familiar with the speech ability always gets to make recall knowledge checks with a bonus (untrained skills don't add your level so you attempting them is just d20+stat modifier). How good is this though?