Templates are fun and cool, but I think you're dipping a little into the stuff most players hate and then combining them. Swarms and Golems. Swarms are usually annoying because you need some form of AoE and Golems can be annoying due to magic immunity. There's a right and wrong kind of annoying and making your players unable to really do much of anything is dipping into the latter.
In any case, here it's more Golems are beatsticks whereas the Worm That Walks are usually BBEG skirmishers. Combining the two makes somewhat of a purely inferior concept and their features become at odds with each other. Mainly that now that it is a Golem, there's not too much complex going on besides move up and try to punch slam.
I think you are completely right. The whole reason why I combined them is because golems and swarms are so different. I absolutely not gonna use this monster and decided on a Golgothan (Poop demon), huge mud elemental with the Stench ability that it gives to every creature that is entangled by his entrap ability. That is gonna be a fun "stay far from the enemy but also your allies" problem to solve for weak fortitude casters.
So I am the forever DM of my party. I decided that the adventure I am playing needed a interesting fight. I love templates and always wanted to use the Worm that walks template. It says to only use it on evil spellcasters, but I found it a cool design to make a Flesh worm that walks Golem.
After applying the template, things started to break down. I still think it is a cool build. Any thoughts on this? Because I think it can become a slugfest:
The build:
Golem, Flesh Worm That Walks CR 9
XP 6400
Neutral Large Construct (Vermin) Construct traits
Init +1; Senses Darkvision 60, Low-light Vision; Perception +8
DEFENSE
AC 11, touch 11, flat-footed 10 ( No Armour, Shield, none)
(+1 Dex, -1 size, +1 insight)
hp 79 (9d10+30);Fast Healing (Ex) = CR
Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +3
Damage reduction 5/adamantine, Immunity to 1 - magic A flesh golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below., Immunity to 2 - A magical attack that deals cold or fire damage slows a flesh golem (as the slow spell) for 2d6 rounds (no save)., Immunity to 3 - A magical attack that deals electricity damage breaks any slow effect on the golem and heals 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. A flesh golem gets no saving throw against attacks that deal electricity damage., Damage reduction 15/-, Immunity to disease, paralysis, poison, and sleep effects
OFFENSE
Speed: 30ft.
Single Attack Slam +13 (1d6+5) (Grab (Ex) , Weapon A worm that walks loses any natural attacks the base creature had, but gains a slam attack that deals damage based on its size. This slam has the grab ability and affects creatures up to one size larger than the worm that walks. A worm that walks retains any weapon proficiencies the base creature had.)
Full Attack
2 Slam +13 (1d6+5)(Grab (Ex) , Weapon A worm that walks loses any natural attacks the base creature had, but gains a slam attack that deals damage based on its size. This slam has the grab ability and affects creatures up to one size larger than the worm that walks. A worm that walks retains any weapon proficiencies the base creature had.)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks
Discorporate (Su) A worm that walks can collapse into a shapeless swarm of worms as a free action. All held, worn, and carried items fall and its Strength score drops to 1. The worm that walks functions as a true swarm while discorporated, with a reach of 0 feet (its space remains unchanged). While discorporated, the worm that walks loses all of its defensive abilities and gains all of the standard swarm traits. It loses its slam attacks and all special abilities and special attacks, but can make a swarm attack that deals damage equal to its engulf attack. A worm that walks can reform into its true form (including equipping all gear in reach) as a full-round action as long as it has at least 1 hit point.,
Squirming Embrace (Ex) DC(14) 2d6 +1.5 Str bonus,
Squirming Embrace (Ex) DC(14) If a worm that walks grapples a foe, as a swift action, it can cause a swarm of worms to squirm over the grappled creature. These worms deal automatic swarm damage with no attack roll needed. If a creature takes damage from the swarm, it is also subject to the swarms distraction ability, and must make a Fortitude save or be nauseated for 1 round. The save DC equals 10 1/2 the worm that walkss HD its Con modifier).
STATISTICS
Str 20, Dex 13, Con 0, Int 0, Wis 11, Cha 1
Base Attack 9 CMB +15 CMB Bonus 4 Grapple; CMD 27 CMD Bonus 4 vs grapple
Feats
Diehard: Remain conscious at -1 to -9 hp
Skills Perception +8, Sense Motive +8, Stealth +5
Languages
ECOLOGY
Environment Any
Organization Solitary, Gang 2-4
Treasure None
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Berserk (Ex) When a flesh golem enters combat, there is a cumulative 1% chance each round that its elemental spirit breaks free and the golem goes berserk. The uncontrolled golem goes on a rampage, attacking the nearest living creature or smashing some object smaller than itself if no creature is within reach, then moving on to spread more destruction. The golems creator, if within 60 feet, can try to regain control by speaking firmly and persuasively to the golem, which requires a DC 19 Charisma check. It takes 1 minute of inactivity by the golem to reset the golems berserk chance to 0%
Grab (Ex):If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creatures Special Attacks line. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a -20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creatures descriptive text).
Creatures with the grab special attack receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple.
Construct traits:Constructs are immune to death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects), necromancy effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless). Constructs are not subject to nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain. Constructs are not at risk of death from massive damage.
Low-light Vision:A creature with low-light vision can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of dim light. It retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Like other people said: a 9 is just below average. Most people wouldn't roleplay a 12, but are really focused on roleplaying the 9. That being said, this is a roleplaying game and you should grab on to any excuse to flesh out your character.
With a 9 I don't see him as social incapable. He is just missing the queues. Maybe he stutters, being so enthusiastic about sharing his knowledge that he forgets to pay attention to the conversation. It doesn't make him unlikely, just a little difficult to be intimidated or to be rallied by. Nor would his lies sound very believable.
When he is trying to make disguises he focuses on the small details, the way he walks and talks, that his wig is sitting perfectly, non of his clothes match. But he forgots that he is the only Tanuki in the country so people still find him easily.
With a lower charisma but with an outgoing personality, you can try to make him try. Just let him copy the behavior from high charisma players because he wants to be like them. But just says the wrong things or he just does things at the wrong time. He saw the bard walk up to the tavernmaid and hit het on the butt? He wants to try that too and does it to the same maid while the previous pc is still talking to her.
I would go for a slightly awkward but very enthusiastic character, who would make interrupt characters telling stories to fact check them, but overexplains everything.
The companion creature must have this feat for it to be of any benefit, but it is virtually impossible for an animal companion to meet its prerequisite. What you need is for the master to take the feat and have an ability like the Hunter class Hunter's Tactics ability: "Hunter Tactics (Ex): At 3rd level, the hunter automatically grants her teamwork feats to her animal companion. The companion doesn't need to meet the prerequisites of these teamwork feats."
NECROMANCY!
I am also making this build with a half-orc to give my tiger a +2 to strength. I also have sacred tattoo and Faith's favorite for a sweet sweet +2 on all saves.
But you can give your animal companion the teamwork feat with the shared training spell.
Second of all:
Maybe you follow a saint of Abadar, who died fighting for the rights of sidewalks. Christianity has a bunch of saints that are just plain weird.
Including but not limited to:
Saint Fiacre: Patron Saint of People with STDs.
Saint Polycarp of Smyrna: Patron Saint Against Dysentery and Earaches.
Saint Genesius of Rome: Patron Saint of Comedians.
Saint Drogo: Patron Saint of Unattractive People.
Saint Isidore of Seville: Patron Saint of the Internet.
Saint Barbara: Patron Saint of Fireworks.
Has anyone actually done this as a player in a campaign?
I was thinking of playing a catfolk rogue(unchained) using claws.
Not as a player (forever GM here), but I had a NPC once who did. It worked, and was fun; certainly not optimized but very thematic. The sad part about using claws is that you are stuck with just 2 attacks. I slapped some levels of urban barbarian on top of it and had some real fun ambushing the players with the use of the decoy ring. It is a higher level item, but the combat became very interesting.
You mean: it is like a life radar? My players spam all the detect spells all the time when in a dungeon. I had to counterroleplay them to not spam it in urban area's as well.
In the module the fangwood keep, it says that there is a book you can find that takes 1d3 10 minutes to read (scout through). If you are a GM, don't bother with this amount of detail. Just wing it. If players say you are inconsistent about how the book is to read, tell them to shut it.
If you are a player, it fully depends on the GM.
If a player of mine would ask this, I would say no.
Would you get an armor bonus if you would hide behind a set of +5 full plate armor, but not the armor penalty?
I grew particularly fond of my Arcane Trickster who shot spells through his gun. + 10 initiative, so always went first. Gave every party member a flaming weapon and casually did 12d6 damage the first round. Was fun.
The omdura class, Nyerkh? If you're asking random people...
** spoiler omitted **
I don't know, I thought it was a very powerful class. Especially when you are low on players.
- Giving everyone fast healing 1 at level 1 for 10 rounds is a very strong auto bleed damage prevention.
- Healing like a paladin
- A very strong spell list (Cleric with a Inquisitor discount)
- Good weapon buff
- two good saves
- Detect all the alignments whenever
The only bad part is the reflex saves (could go for a dex build), only proficient with simple weapons (just pick your deity carefully).
I think, just like the reach cleric, this could be a very powerful build not strong enough to overshadow the party, but certainly giving GM's a difficult time.
The variant magic rules Words of Power grants players, and GM alike the opportunity to get creative with spells. No more searching for the sorcerer to find all the fire spells, just because she gets extra damage with just that type, limiting herself. Now she can just pick the effect word: Burning Flash and now it is up to you how you want to use it: touch attack, rays, burst or even walls. Possibilities are almost endless.
I had a real blast with this while playing a magus and for my next character, I want to use this system even more as I will be playing a witch. I stumbled upon one effect word that stood out from the rest: Friendship (Command). Normally effect words are lower in power than normal spells. It is a tradeoff you make for versatility. But this effect word just scares me.
Basically, what it lets you do, is just let a humanoid creature pull an Italian team switch for the entire dungeon crawl (around level 6+). The target of the spell will not attack you, not attack your allies and even defend you for 10 minutes/level. That is insane. Especially since it says nowhere that you can not turn the entire enemy force against one and other, or just target everyone.
I found this effect word for a level 1 extremely above the power curve. Is this something other people discovered, have witnessed or even used? And should this be addressed?
Are there any spells that stop someone from getting pregnant or getting a std or the like? Seems like those would be among the first spells people invented.
Or gloves of whispering to negate all noise from any firearm used, more than a one time use.
Pretty damn expensive I must say, but it is a good catch. I just assume he has an antipaladin, bard, cleric, oracle, inquisitor, mesmerist, or psychic in the group. He can cast silence on a rock or something and just put it in your pocket.
I am playing a monk of the scaled hand/eldritch scion build right now, and I can tell you: it sucks missing those magus levels. My charisma is actually ridiculous, so my spells are still ready good, but I would advise on more than 2 levels in multiclassing.
Also, I don't see why you want to play the mysterious avenger, to be honest. If you do it to get charisma on AC, there are easier ways to do that.
You will need many Oils of Silence to even attempt this.
Just curious since I don't use firearms at all. Is there an actual rule in-game for the volume of a musket (or other firearm)?
Because, if not, then by RAW muskets might not be any louder than longbows or thrown daggers - they all make the same sound (the sound of a d20 rolling on the table).
Oke, I love out of the ordinary rule questions.
First, we need to know if there are perception based DC's for hearing for sounds we have in the real world. The perception "notice something" table on D20pfsrd gives us 2 data points of which we know the dB from:
Talking and whispering:
Talking is a DC 0 and gives us 70 dB.
Whispering is a DC 15 and gives us 20 dB.
This gives us a formula of DC=-0.3xdB+21
A flintlock gun generates about 155 dB of noise.
-0.3x155+21=DC -26.
Keeping in mind this is from 5 feet away. You won't fire a musket this close. A musket has a range of 5 x 40 ft. = 200 ft.
For every 10 feet, a +1 gets added to the DC.
This will give us a Perception DC of -6.
Hm... This sucks..
Just buy some oil of silence, and you should be good to go...
If a race has SLA's that are arcane, such as shatter, levitate etc, can they use use these as the prereq for arcane strike?
Sadly,no. Maybe for the better. I assume you are not a caster and so I present you the feat caster's champion:
Quote:
Caster's champion
You draw upon the power of an allied arcane spellcaster to enhance your weapons with magical energy.
Benefit(s): Three times per day as a swift action, when you are within 30 feet of an ally who is an arcane spellcaster, you can channel a portion of her arcane power into your weapons. For 1 round, you gain a +1 bonus on all weapon damage rolls, and your weapons are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. When your base attack bonus reaches +4 and every 4 points thereafter, this bonus increases by 1, to a maximum of +5 at 16th level.
Special: This feat counts as Arcane Strike for the purposes of prerequisites
Explain to me how a weapon gives you an additional language?
It kinda depends on the rest of your build. Could you perhaps tell us more about that?
From the options you gave, I can see you choose a bigger critical range over a bigger critical modifier (so butchering axe is out of the picture). Personally, I wouldn't take the flambard or the falchion. They are straight up worse than other weapons.
Anyway, here are the average damage per weapon assuming a 11 or higher on your D20 would hit (between the brackets is the damage with a +1 keen weapon, which you want with increased critical range):
If you want the most damage, take the greatsword. If you want the most amount of crits: take the elven curved blade. If you want reach on your elven curved blade, take the fauchard. And if you want the most damage overall, take the butchering axe: 11,55 (13,8)
The OP could also look into taking 2 levels of Strangler Brawler, plus the feat Accomplished Sneak Attacker.
I have been looking into that. 3d6 when damaging of pinning the target does sound nice. And the move action, gain a free feat is also always welcome. But the only problem I have with it is another 2 level dips into another class.
I have been thinking about perhaps dropping the whole investigator thing altogether, but it stopped feeling like the character that I had in mind. I do like him to be clever and craft potions and stuff.
For the op sorry to derail maybe you will find useful stuff in the build.
Don't worry about it. I love to search through others people's builds for useful interactions. :) I would choose a derail over a dead threat any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Personally, I enjoy both writing backstories and making my character strong enough to do real damage. My current GM jokingly said I was trying to break the game after I took Evolved Companion to give my boar a Slam attack. In a way, he wasn't wrong. It's hilarious to see my 27 pound halfling and her boar absolutely destroy a big Dire Wolf after just a couple of rounds.
Of course, I like it as well. Most of the times I first build the most cheesy character build I can think of (almost always do I start with a rogue, that never sticks long). And when I have a goal in my mind, or atleast a general direction, then I start building him up from level 1 with background and sometimes less potent gear and feats. But I don't care. My eldritch scion/scaled fist monk build loves his merciful spells and non-lethal claws. A strict"no weapon" policy so enemies that can fly are getting the best of him. But that is what allies are for right?
Rogue is the most popular class, despite being notoriously weak. I guess it's the bias towards low levels where the CMD and poor saves don't show up so much. Though perhaps it's not entirely surprising, as rogue-type characters are popular in fiction.
And it is unchained and not unchained added up. People (including me) are really fond of the idea of sneak attack. Sadly, I know it rarely pays off. + people see it as a challenge to make it work.
Yeah they seem accurate. Although I'd argue that you'd lose control of the grapple if you fail the action to 'Tie the Defender up' *, I'll just assume that whoever made that flowchart knows what they're talking about.
I would agree most with Option 3 from above. It's a flash of energy dealing the return damage, I am plenty capable of imagining that energy bridging the gap between flying daggers and the person making the daggers fly. Make them vampiric and cruel to offset the damage you will take from viscous.
There are a lot of new grapple feats and abilities. The chart surely is outdated, but if you start with a grapple build from level 1, you will know it by hard before level 5. After that, the most weirdness starts to begin. So you can use it if you don't have all types of crazy feats for your character.
Pick spells based on this order:
1) RP
2) Build
3) Campaign
4) Relative strength
1)With a roleplaying game, there is no best and there is no winning. So pick the spell you like the most.
2)If you are a dexterity based cleric with a big to hit bonus: take the attack roll. Are you an Intelligence based wizard with a low dexterity, than go for the save (reminder, it is easier to buff yourself than to debuff the enemy).
3)If you have a lot of undead in your campaign (like I had with my intimidate build...) you want a build that complements that campaign.
4)Some spells are just stronger than others: shocking grasp is just better than play instrument, both level 1 spells. No way to deny that.
When it comes to these spells: Like I said, depends on your build and campaign mostly. Personally, I would take Boneshaker:
More fluff, more creative uses (pushing people off the ledge), and I think overall more damage (combat control is fun, but if it doesn't take a creature out of the fight, then just kill it).
What is your build at the moment? Or are you just spell shopping for the future?
If the DM returns the question with: "What did Yomabo on the paizo forums had to say about it?" Glad you ask.
There are ... options
1) It does work, you deal an additional 2d6 damage without taking damage yourself.
- That doesn't feel right. Paying a +1 for 2d6 extra damage. It feels unbalanced and not what the writers intended.
2) It doesn't work, using the daggers like this would make it a semi-ranged weapon. The enhancement says it has to be placed on a melee weapon. If you are not holding it, you are getting no benefit.
- Well, it seems truer to the rules. It is kind of a sad ending to the story, to be frank. So much roleplay potential lost. I think that a DM should only say "No" to the players if they offer him a beer on the house but he still needs to drive. Alright, next option!
3) It does work, you deal an additional 2d6 damage but you still take the 1d6 damage yourself.
- Well, this seems the most fun, and also the most balanced. Vicious does mention " a flash of disruptive energy that resonates between the opponent and the wielder". The blades are just 5 ft away. It isn't that hard to imagine that that energy could jump that gap.
Personally (as a forever DM {Sad panda}), I would ask the player: "What do you think is most realistic?" and "Are you investing in 4 +1 Vicious mithril daggers just so you can boop 2d6 more damage?"
Because if damage is what you want, why not: "Spell storing: Intensified Shocking grasp"? A nice 5d4+1+10d6.
Most of the times you don't have to bend the rules to your side. There are easier ways to get stuff done.
As wild as the OP build is, as a GM I would consider this to be a serious abuse of the rules (regardless of it's legality/illegality). Remember that any munchkin-level tweaking you can create can also appear in the world. If this was happening in my campaign, I would create 12 of these Songbirds of Doom to come chase your party down :P
A good GM should adapt his adventures to make them challenging to his players. And he should interpret the power levels of the characters the players build as an indicator of the challenge levels they want from their GMs. But one should hesitate to dismiss creative and powerful character builds as being abusive to the rules. Character building is an art. People put a lot of creative energy into their characters, and a good GM should not just stomp on their players' artistic visions.
I agree with you for the most parts. As kind of the permanent GM of our group I can tell you that yes, theory crafting and building characters can take a long time. But filling a world with new and interesting things to explore, with a logical storyline, something interesting for all the players and also keeping everything balanced is a real time-consuming. I honestly hate it when one of my players jumps onto google: "Pathfinder insane killer build OP" and just takes that build and tells me that he spent a lot of time in designing it, and I should respect his ideas (argument came up more than once, one time even with 3 of the 5 players at once).
I have new players coming and going in my group and I tell them every time: "Don't worry about not having the most insane character build ever. Just build something you like to play and something with a lot of backgrounds." If people arrive at session 0 and join the table and they start talking about how his character has this amazing story behind him, but he doesn't even know what class he is; that brings tears to my eyes. We are telling a story. We all add to it. No one likes a story where 1 guy is fighting for his life to survive and his friend who is the same level, flies in like he is Superman and 1 hit kills 6 bad guys per round.
Of course, I also have players who don't like the insane background stories. They like to crunch the numbers, building the best there ever was. But if the players squeeze every rule to get the tiniest bonuses, then I will do the same. If you just build out of story perspective and you spend a lot of rounds doing fluff stuff, I will be more slacking on the rules.
And the group likes it. Everyone gets his satisfaction. Story guys get a story, the "artists" get the Michael Bay dynamic combat and lots of detail to work with, and the number crunchers get their satisfaction of getting stuff done.
TL;DR Give the players what they want from a game, but respect it that when you might be having fun with your op character, you might take the fun away from other players or the GM
Unfortunately, your unarmed strike isn't considered a melee weapon unless you're a Monk. This means that Enforcer, Sap Adept and Sap Master don't work with unarmed strike.
Improved Unarmed Strike merely allows your unarmed attack to deal lethal damage, and removes the AoO that would otherwise be caused by your unarmed attack. It doesn't cause your unarmed strike to be considered a weapon.
For that, you need the monk's Unarmed Strike class ability. Among other things,
Core Rulebook wrote:
A monk’s unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
That said, most GMs should allow this nonetheless. If not, use a sap and pretend you're not :)
Holy s@%&, this necromancy skill is of the chart! Either way, you are not 100% right. You can take weapon focus with unarmed strike, it has an entree in the weapon list stating it is a bludgeoning weapon. I would say it is a weapon.
True, you are not considered armed and it is up for debate if certain spells work, but Unarmed Strike is a weapon for sure. I think the emphasis of the monk text is on:
Core Rulebook wrote:
A monk’s unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapon or natural weapon.
I think that the monks unarmed strike is the only unarmed strike that is considered a manufactured- and a natural weapon. Instead of just the natural weapon (empty fists), or manufactured (gauntlet).
You have limited feats on an investigator build which will restrict your ability to fully utilize all of the fun silly grapple stuff. That has to be left for other builds.
The shaping turtle feats would be my recommendation because the if you wanted to go further down the grapple route as the add to cmd which basically can't be to high and they greatly improve action economy.
Tumor familair lost access to improved familair and more recently protector they took a hit.
Robe of infinite twine is pretty fun.
Warning on grab you can't use it to grapple something larger than you.
@Scott Being able to grapple a iron golem at 10 is optimization. Grappling a balor is exactly what I consider over optimizations. Was the character that spikes at 50 a primary single class? Like the build I was talking out? I'm actually curious I don't see a lot of not heavly multiclassed builds hitting those numbers.
Snapping Turtle it is. That saves me a round basically. I have to keep in mind that, thanks to the armor as DR rule, that natural attacks are doing almost no damage, but with all the buffs I should be good to go. Also my AC will be low (can't focus on STR, DEX and INT without dropping the other stats insanely). So actually for enemies to miss me is going to be a hard one. I could go for agile maneuvers but that takes another feat.
Maybe a one level dip into inspired blade. Free weapon finesse and weapon focus (rapier but alright). Darring do = inspiration lite. Parry and Riposte works wonderful for a dex build. Basically the same as Snapping Turtle Clutch because you are allowed to make an attack roll after the Riposte (combat maneuvers are attacks with CMB instead of attack bonus, so that is legal). That leaves me tie or to pin the next turn as a standard action. Coup da Grace the round after. One level dip saving two feats, 1 round of combat, adding vampire flavor and more, sound good to me. So the feat progression would look like
1: Agile maneuvers
B: Improved grapple
3: Dirty Fighting
5: Throat slicer
Bushwhacker would be nice but I see no way of keeping people flat footed. I could disappear using vest of immolation and Cloak of Fiery Vanishing. Funny combo and I can see a vampire disappear using Fire. Would enemies who fail the save (DC: 11 like never going to happen) be flat footed for me? Otherwise what is the bonus of them believing I died?
The tenticle gets going faster but will eventually be out preformed by study. Study also has the advantage of the damage boost and boosting weapon attacks. Tenticle will not stack with grab from other sources polymorph or beastmorph so it is accessible to all alchemy builds but at later levels.
He doesn't have to settle for or the other. He only needs to take 2 levels in Alchemist to be able to get both the KCTF and the Tentacle.
True, I could do both, but as I already am planning on taking a one level dip in blood rager and taking a 3/4 BAB class, makes me already late to the cool combat feat party.
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Grandlounge wrote:
The familair is off the table but a protector crab or improved familair is better than the tumor familair imo.
I'm thinking the OP might just get away with a Tumor Familiar, though. My thinking is that it's part of his body, and he's mostly getting it for the Grapple Bonus. The GM might let him have it if he just keeps it as part of his body and pretty much just uses it for the bonus.
Tumor familiars are the best. Not taking up any space, can at tonnes of rp and great buffs. Sadly my last character was the (in)famous: Skald/bloodrager inspired rage/amplified rage/tumor familiar build. I am oke with taking a dip into bloodrager again, but also taking the tumor familiar again? The rest of the party will just look at me like: "wait, I thought the last guy died?"
Tieing people up sounds really good, especially with the 2 levels in cavalier like you mentioned. With Rope of infinite Twine makes it a hilarious image. I am just having trouble picking between that and Throat slicer (coup da grace). I would need greater grapple (level 9 ): ) or bushwhacker for that. Bushwhacker fits the bill but keeping people flat footed is rough.
The tenticle gets going faster but will eventually be out preformed by study. Study also has the advantage of the damage boost and boosting weapon attacks. Tenticle will not stack with grab from other sources polymorph or beastmorph so it is accessible to all alchemy builds but at later levels. I also don't find the tenticle to be very vampire-y.
The familair is off the table but a protector crab or improved familair is better than the tumor familair imo. Though again a mauler bat the turns into a imp seems much more in line with the character (my imp full attacks with a bardiche against me grappled targest).
I have always found the vivsectionist a bit overrated. Bombs are a far more powerful class feater than sneak attack, though strength damage is nice. Viv builds do put up good damage numbers but I much prefer versatility.
The build I suggested gets to nearly 40 to grapple at level ten which is already more than enough to grapple an iron golem (cr13), so any higher I would deam an over investment of resources. The investigator ends up being a great melee character as well as a very solid grappler.
If I went alchemist I would build up smoke bombs, echolocation / goz mask, and Viv sneak attacks. That feels pretty vampire-y to me.
I agree. I am going to put away my idea's for the alchemist and I started focusing on the investigator part. A +40 seems utter overkill quite frankly, so I'll take that as a way to get some RP liberty.
At level 5 (1 level Urban blood conduit/4 levels infiltrator(?) investigator it would be:
CMB (Grapple):
12(Str) + 4(BAB) + 2(1/2 investigator level) + 2(improved grapple) = +21 to grapple. That will be more than enough for now.
So now I am getting in a bit of a pickle. Through bloodconduit I would get improved Grapple, and at first level I would pick Dirty Fighting. Then Throat Slicer and Bushwhacker at 3 and 5. Another option is perhaps the Snapturtle feat tree. I really am looking for a way to pin faster. I may just be impatient, but my group rarely goes beyond level 7, so quick growth is a necessity.
I am afraid of becoming a one trick pony if I focus my complete combat style on 1 maneuver. What if I have to fight something that is on fire, or some kind of acidic ooze, or worse: a burning acidic ooze of critical counters. Then what. I know I still have my extracts left, but self-buffs are not going to save me there. I know I will still have a party around me and that encounter is probably designed by the DM to counter my character a bit, but still.
You could go with the Dirty Fighting(or Combat Expertise), Improved Grapple, Throat Slice and Greater Grapple feats. I, myself, have always wanted to try this out. Though I don't know whether Throat Slice is PFS legal or not, if that matters.
Dirty fighting is a nifty little feat! Very useful for the feat starved investigator! Although (and this is my bad I should have mentioned it), we are also using armor as DR. Which makes Combat Expertise an insanely good feat.
Throat Slicer is the perfect feat for this build, theme-wise and also mechanically. Sneaking up behind some foolish enemy: Grab, Pin, round 2: dead. I am lucky I am playing a homebrew game, so no worries for PFS legal state.
Grandlounge wrote:
I have a grapple investigator. He is human but the build may help.
Blood conduit (urban if you want) bloodrager 1 (extra rage, power attack, improved grapple archetype bonus feat).
Every other level is bonded investigator. Have a bat familair (Flying Fox) become an imp at 8.
Your familair can benifit from your extracts. So it can polymorph and do damage while you grapple. An imp even has martial weapon proficency.
2 sets of rolls of the skills your trained in. So your good out of combat.
Dirty fighting + menacing weapon on the familiar is +6 from flanking to your cmb.
The build has huge bonuses to cmb but fewer to cmd so watch that.
Three modes:
1) Grappler with melee familair (shield companion)
2) Two attacker flanking buddy (shield companion).
3) melee/grappler with support familiar (umd and prisoners gloves), ioun stone.
Bloodconduit really suits the character. Especially Urban Bloodconduit. The pure calm before the controlled fury of grapple and attacks. The medium armor is also really welcome and the undead bloodline is just a must if you are going to play a vampire dhampir.
I never really looked into celestial obedience. I found it a lot of hassle to find the right boon. So you saved me a lot of time, thank you. The lawful good deity fits the whole Vampire gone good build. So I really like that and the +4 to grapple is nothing to sneeze at.
Sadly I will not be allowed to have a familiar, since the party is already kind of big. I know familiars do not play a big role in combat, but an extra character in the group is just too much for my DM to handle (also no summoners, summon spells, animal companions, leadership, ect..).
I have been looking around a bit here and there and I have been looking at classes and it feels like Vivisectionist Beastmorph Alchemist seems like a powerful class as well for this build.
I got the idea when you stated the Mutagen. What do you guys think: Investigator or Alchemist?
My group with whom I am traveling have been traveling has been send on a quest to save a small island from a spreading plague of undead. When you read this, I have already perished (fell of the ship that got attacked by a zombie whale...).
But my spirit is strong and willing to live once again.
I talked to my DM and he liked my idea of actually playing a "vampire", a Dhampir. I like the classic image of the Keen old vampire who always has a trick up his sleeve and is very knowledgeable (knowledge comes with age right). Also I like the "Bad guy gone Good but is still struggling with the new lifestyle" idea.
I want to play a Dhampir who focussed on grappling and biting people with his fangs. I would like to use blood transcription as a major flavor spell to fill his formula book.I have been looking around for investigator grapple build, but without any luck. Could you guys help me out a bit? It's also the first time I try the investigator class.
I want to grapple and make use of a bite attack during this grapple. Hence my DM let me use blood transcription with spell-like abilities, I would like to play a class with a spell/formula book (Investigator not a must but I like the idea of the class). I like the idea of precision damage like sneak attack, studied strike and Coup de Grace, so utilizing one of these is important to me. I am oke with multiclassing, bit would like to have my build only before or at level 5. He doesn't have to be insanely optimized, but I do want him to be useful in and out of combat. We use a 21 point buy system, no 3rd party aloud. Oh minor detail: we use the wounds and vigor system (controversial I know, but we really like it as it).
If you guys could help me with the build, just give me some suggestions, or even help me with the roleplay aspect of this character that would be great.
