Wreath of blades + Vicious


Rules Questions


So, the magus spell wreath of blades spins 4 daggers around you for defensive attacks. If those blades have the vicious weapon quality, would it activate?

The daggers are not being wielded. There's a part of me that says there is nothing rules wise specifically saying they have to be held, but in the spirit of the affect I think they have to be held.

What say thee?


Yeeh... no... hmm.. y....n.... y...a..

I would say to be save: Ask the DM.

If the DM returns the question with: "What did Yomabo on the paizo forums had to say about it?" Glad you ask.

There are ... options

1) It does work, you deal an additional 2d6 damage without taking damage yourself.
- That doesn't feel right. Paying a +1 for 2d6 extra damage. It feels unbalanced and not what the writers intended.

2) It doesn't work, using the daggers like this would make it a semi-ranged weapon. The enhancement says it has to be placed on a melee weapon. If you are not holding it, you are getting no benefit.
- Well, it seems truer to the rules. It is kind of a sad ending to the story, to be frank. So much roleplay potential lost. I think that a DM should only say "No" to the players if they offer him a beer on the house but he still needs to drive. Alright, next option!

3) It does work, you deal an additional 2d6 damage but you still take the 1d6 damage yourself.
- Well, this seems the most fun, and also the most balanced. Vicious does mention " a flash of disruptive energy that resonates between the opponent and the wielder". The blades are just 5 ft away. It isn't that hard to imagine that that energy could jump that gap.

Personally (as a forever DM {Sad panda}), I would ask the player: "What do you think is most realistic?" and "Are you investing in 4 +1 Vicious mithril daggers just so you can boop 2d6 more damage?"

Because if damage is what you want, why not: "Spell storing: Intensified Shocking grasp"? A nice 5d4+1+10d6.

Most of the times you don't have to bend the rules to your side. There are easier ways to get stuff done.


I would agree most with Option 3 from above. It's a flash of energy dealing the return damage, I am plenty capable of imagining that energy bridging the gap between flying daggers and the person making the daggers fly. Make them vampiric and cruel to offset the damage you will take from viscous.


VoodistMonk wrote:
I would agree most with Option 3 from above. It's a flash of energy dealing the return damage, I am plenty capable of imagining that energy bridging the gap between flying daggers and the person making the daggers fly. Make them vampiric and cruel to offset the damage you will take from viscous.

They have to be the same enhancement to work.


Oh, I know. I meant you have four daggers, each with:
Viscous+Cruel+Vampiric

Expensive? Yes. But thematically awesome, and more than likely, quite effective.


A small price to pay: 130,008 gold pieces


But your flying daggers are cutting up your enemies, giving their life to you as you take it from them, streams of blood and wicked bolts of energy arching from each dagger back to you every hit. You are now a sadomasochistic storm.


VoodistMonk wrote:

Oh, I know. I meant you have four daggers, each with:

Viscous+Cruel+Vampiric

Expensive? Yes. But thematically awesome, and more than likely, quite effective.

you could probably cut the price down a little bit by simply enchanting 2 Daggers of Doubling. Though, to be fair, this may be a bit of a stretch since the spell puts the dagger in the grey area of still technically being in your possession, but also not being held by you either.

I agree with option 3 above, it makes sense to me that you would deal 2d6 dmg but still take the 1d6 in return.


3 seems like the mostly likely reading.


VoodistMonk wrote:
But your flying daggers are cutting up your enemies, giving their life to you as you take it from them, streams of blood and wicked bolts of energy arching from each dagger back to you every hit. You are now a sadomasochistic storm.

Best. Action sequence. Description. EVER.

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