Grapple rules


Rules Questions


Are the 2 chart in the "grapple" rules section still accurate? If not, is there an updated version somewhere? (sorry, I couldn't figure out how to link better, I don't post much)

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Grapple

Thanks


BUMP* - Can anyone help?


There are a lot of new grapple feats and abilities. The chart surely is outdated, but if you start with a grapple build from level 1, you will know it by hard before level 5. After that, the most weirdness starts to begin. So you can use it if you don't have all types of crazy feats for your character.


Yeah they seem accurate. Although I'd argue that you'd lose control of the grapple if you fail the action to 'Tie the Defender up' *, I'll just assume that whoever made that flowchart knows what they're talking about.

*Chart nr 2, Round 3


Wonderstell wrote:

Yeah they seem accurate. Although I'd argue that you'd lose control of the grapple if you fail the action to 'Tie the Defender up' *, I'll just assume that whoever made that flowchart knows what they're talking about.

*Chart nr 2, Round 3

Do you have a source?


No, if I had a source I would have shared it. I can explain my reasoning, though.

:
Alright, so 'Tie Up' is listed as one of the actions you can make as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple.

Tie Up wrote:
If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up. This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead of your CMD). The ropes do not need to make a check every round to maintain the pin. If you are grappling the target, you can attempt to tie him up in ropes, but doing so requires a combat maneuver check at a –10 penalty. If the DC to escape from these bindings is higher than 20 + the target’s CMB, the target cannot escape from the bonds, even with a natural 20 on the check.

I interpret that to mean that the check to maintain your grapple (and Tie Up the Defender) is made at a -10 penalty, not that you first roll to maintain and then roll to Tie Up.

What then follows is that if you fail the check to Tie Up someone then you failed the check to maintain the grapple (as they are the same).

If it is two different checks, one to maintain and another to attempt to Tie Up, then failing the attempt to Tie Up shouldn't break the grapple. However, that would still mean that the chart is wrong. Since 'Tie the Defender up' is separated from the '...maintain grapple and perform some other action /.../' box.


Wonderstell wrote:

No, if I had a source I would have shared it. I can explain my reasoning, though.

** spoiler omitted **

Failing to pin your opponent while already having him grappled, doesn't make you lose the grapple as well?


Yomabo wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:

No, if I had a source I would have shared it. I can explain my reasoning, though.

** spoiler omitted **

Failing to pin your opponent while already having him grappled, doesn't make you lose the grapple as well?

If you succeed on maintaining the grapple on your opponent, then you can choose to pin him. If you fail to pin your opponent, then the grapple is lost because pinning the opponent was part of maintaining the grapple.

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