I have the Masterwork keyword on a couple feats, I just dont have a weapon. No one in game can utilize +3 weapons.
What to expect from Early Access Beta Right here is what everyone is looking for. Note, that it says low content and bug free as possible. Note that it also says that the Early Access Beta is not meant to be a bug hunt.
The Developers have been doing a good job. They have been throwing out as much as they can. The problem as I see it, is that they have been pushed to hard to get out too much... By the players and by Ryan. If they are given the time they need to fix what they have, they will have a light on content but bug free game.
We'll have some pretty extensive patch notes. Alpha 11 may actually be the Early Enrollment build. We have to deploy it, then test it to see how it performs under load. So a bunch of stuff that we have on our checklist as requirements to start Early Enrollment will be in that build. Ryan, After you deploy the Alpha 11 update, Lets think about not deploying any new features till EE. Just focus in on what you have now and get it all working correctly. Maybe just stick to graphics updates and bug fixes. That would be a great way to build confidence in the game. Once you are relatively bug free. Launch it, and then just add bits here and there. Test the living **** out of it before adding another bit. Xeen
1) Have you done this? 2) I beg to differ, the speed you speak of is in melee, not just running across an open field3) not really, too many do nothing 4) No, they are not
I think the problem is more one of those whether or not the MVP expectations are actually met by those players entering into EE. Also of note... Once GW starts accepting money for the game, sites like MMORPG are going to rate PFO. Once that rating gets on a site like that, it has begun. If PFO rates at a 4/10, the game will die. No one is going to even bother with a game that rates poorly. Again, they will rate the game once it starts charging a fee. Ryan needs to consider that. Future promises will not spur any meaningful influx... If it did the game would already be massive.
A queue system works for most other MMO's but not this type of MMO. They may as well just shut the server off if they do that. Because it is a persistent single server game. If your enemies can get a large army logged in, and most of your group are stuck in a queue... Then you lose your settlement and have no ability to defend it. That is not something people playing this type of game will stand for.
As a current engineer I can say that it is failing. You are correct, push it till it fails. Lets just say, and I am over exaggerating it, that we have 5,000 people in the game now... That is a pittance compared to what is planned. The stress test is failing because the game cannot handle what is planned for EE.
My first thought... We are not idiots. Of course the teleporting and rollbacks are being caused by something that is not teleporting or rollbacks. Yeah... We are seeing a symptom and not the cause. Of course it is being caused by the server choking. It is still teleporting and rollbacks. I am sure this was written because there has been a flood of bug reports on this. Kradlum is absolutely correct. The stress test is in full swing and the server is failing. Bludd has a short term answer to help the problem but it will not solve the problem. Optimizing the code is probably the only way to solve this. Was the code written in 32 bit and DX9? I am sure the answer is yes... That WoW factor Bludd was talking about in another thread for me would be that PFO is or will be converted to 64 bit and DX10+ code. I personally do not understand why anyone is making games in old tech.
LOL, I am not sure I have made a character in PFO that I would consider "hot" yet. But this discussion is not just for gaming. It is in every aspect of society, and women in general have been just as much at fault as men are. I would say that the only reason it bothers me is because 1) I have a daughter, and 2) I have had too many female friends that dive right into this and end up as the type of women that are just annoying shallow husks. LOL, dudebros, never heard that one. It has been amusing to see the number of games that have female characters with enormous "personalities" and show every piece of skin possible to the point of almost being porn. I dont play those games, they are usually not much more then mindless nonsense.
I agree with that Jazz. It will get to a point where most crafting materials will sell fast. I also like that fact that Ryan is considering a switch to hide empty items from the market. I hope this comes to pass as it is time consuming to look through countless items and find nothing. It would be much more helpful to just see what is available at a particular market. Now, Kickstarter stuffs. I certainly hope that everything from the kickstarter makes it to EE on day one. I know for myself, I picked up a couple add ons with the purpose of using them on day one. I really do not want to sell it on the market... would be wasted money to me.
I've played both Cleric and Wizard in Alpha. I found the Cleric to definitely be a bit slower and the leveling process a bit more enigmatic; The Wizard seemed much more straight forward. I will throw you an alpha invite, just pm me your email.
Well, since he has been cracking jokes about it being a grind in another thread... It tells me he is not taking it seriously.I actually always find your topics and criticisms very intriguing; we think very similarly on a lot of issues. However, I wish you wouldn't come off so negatively - it's really not helping man. All of your good points get brushed aside and the only thing people focus on is your unsavory tone. Its all good, I still try to push the game to others and tell them that it has potential. I still help people in game when I can. I also work with everyone on TS to get us all the knowledge we can. So there is still some positive attitude, it just doesnt show here... I honestly dont think my opinion matters unless I pucker up. Which is not what I do when it is something I am paying for... My money should be enough for my opinions to count. Now, when I deal with Lisa, she gets my full respect. I believe she has earned it.
I think Ryan's characterization of Audoucet's desires was pretty objectively accurate.To be fair, I'm not sure that's what he wants. I do however know he doesn't want killing 250 goblins to be a gate. It's healthy if all of us look at exactly what the other person is trying to say, not what we think the other person wants; even if their delivery is horrendous. Really? That is why he has fought with me tooth and nail about PVP.
Do you know this for fact or are you just speculating?
We had no problem killing escalation points, we had problems finding them... As in they didnt spawn quickly enough, or they just werent spawned properly. If I have to kill 7 camps of Priests, I expect to find all 7 camps without running in circles.
I appologize, I was told that the add ons cost not the engine... but the pro version is $1500. Do not misunderstand something Ryan, One thing I have been backing you and your team when telling people to come to PFO, is that they are making this game with what 5? developers? (that is what I have said anyway) I am talking about the coding guys. Most people take pause at that and reconsider their graphics complaints... It hasnt exactly brought them here to try it out but it at least made them think. That is why I made the graphics suggestion. Get a group, let them hammer some eye candy out, and keep them as short term contractors. It will not be cheap I know. Just a thought.
The funds wont be failing unless they are over paying themselves. They took the cheap road for everything possible.. hint: Unity is free, its utilities are not (only know of one they bought) Holding their feet to the fire is not whining, but it sure as hell is better then being a wimpy fanboy that praises everything.
What constitutes grinding? I've seen people here use definitions as loose as "I want never to do the same thing twice", which, to be honest, makes little sense to me in context of a game, through "I want never to *have to* do the same thing twice", to "I want never to *have to* do anything"; I see little agreement in what's acceptable, so it quickly becomes an "eye of the beholder" problem. Its pretty simple. I do not want to be forced into doing a large number of npc kills, large number of gathering completions, or a large number of crafting runs to advance my character. It seems as if we're going to be presented with a game to play, and we'll play it, or not, or just for a while and then never again, or for a while and then go away to watch how it changes, or any number of other combinations. Each person's going to make his own decisions about how to approach what Goblinworks offers, and there is no possible scenario in which they can please all their supporters, much less the people they both want and need to attract beyond that pool of current supporters. We do expect them to at least attempt to do the small number of things they said they would. Achievements are a grind required to advance my character. There is no disputing that. Goblinworks, unique among developers I've given my money, is allowing us to participate in some aspects of their game-creation. We'll be asked for our input, and we'll provide it un-asked; some of our desires will be met, and others won't; and we've already seen several instances where simple conversations among we interested parties on these boards have resulted in changes in Pathfinder Online as it exists. Yes, true. There has been changes. I am still going to hold their feet to the fire with the promises made to get our money. No one else will do it, no one else wants to call them out, everyone wants to pussyfoot around and sing kumbaya. I am glad that a couple other people are here to do the same.
There are a couple promises that are false. Its pretty obvious. It doesnt need to get out of Alpha to confirm that. But if we hold their feet to the fire now, then it can be corrected. Goblinworks will put out a game people will enjoy. I just dont like being told I will get one thing, so I give out my money, then get another.
I did find what the uncommons are, but... I have crafted a couple, will need to bug report it tonight. **** **** **** *insert four letter words here
All I worry about is how badly crippled I'll be in terms of making it through the day if I ignore the best/fastest path to anywhere and just pick up whatever I feel like that day. @Both, I do not see this as a problem over all. Putting a couple months xp into something will not make you horrible at your main class. Honestly, doing the Wizard/Cleric thing would be cool, and probably pretty useful. I doubt you will be gimped, you just may not have that extra 2%. You will have a place in my party if you want to go out hunting. Does not matter if you min/maxed or not. What I do not want is to be forced into it. If I do not want to multiclass, then I shouldnt be required to just to increase my main class.
Thanks Nihimon Graphics - Yeah I have seen improvements as well. I just think we need a big jump to bring them in. If PFO can grab those people, we will get the ball rolling for the game in a big way. I honestly think we will hit PFO's goals with this. (sad to say though, people are too stuck on looks over playability, hell I have even played Trade Wars Beta recently) Achievements - I know we have known there would be something. I also think that PVPers will have no choice but to PVE, if they want a settlement that is. I just think there could be a better way, I just dont know of one... maybe game money? Make people buy skills with gold and xp.. I dont know Classes - Cool PVP - Cool Crafting and Drops - Cool Allow a Focus - Cool Thanks again Nihimon
This is my opinion and the opinions of others I have either invited to the game or tried to invite to the game. Try to read this and be open to it. Once someone can come to terms with a mindset, only then can they move forward and improve. I know this myself, and have come to accept things I did not like. Look at it from another perspective and see the merits. Its not an easy thing to do, but everyone can do it. Graphics - I know, MVP. When settlements are deployed, I would suggest that this becomes the highest priority for the game. Fix bugs during EE, but an army of graphics experts needs to get to work. I have had way too many people turn down or not even accept an alpha invite because of graphics alone. The comments were something like "What is this the year 2000?" or "What is that smegma?" or "What are they doing, there are tons of Unity games coming out that look 10 times better." I know you guys have worked hard on it. Keep going, you can get it done!!! Personally, I do not care. If the game plays well, I can ignore the look. Too many people cannot, and most of them would play for a couple years. Think about it, and admit that this needs to be done. Recruit a team of contractors for this. They do not need to be permanent employees. I know you already have people working on this, but get them help to get the job done. (easier said then done expense wise, but you can figure out a way) Achievements - This is not supposed to be a grind game. For the people who go out and farm NPC's on a daily basis, it will not be. Only because they grind by choice. As a sandbox game, there needs to be ways of not being required to grind. I have already been stopped in advancement multiple times because I did not have enough kills with specific weapons. I know what the point is... to keep people from logging off for six months then coming back and spending tons of xp. Guess what, they paid for that xp, they paid for their character to advance. There is no good reason to stop that unless GW does not want to get paid. The people who would do this, log off for six months then come back, will not keep their account active and will not likely return to the game. Eve has a massive number of people who return to the game because their characters keep training for six months. They have something invested and come back to the game because of it. If GW keeps with the mindset of "We dont want them to come back Uber" then you will not have the success you are striving for. That is part of that Eve model that has made them so successful. Classes - Sure, the preferred term is Role. It is still a class. This is a class based game. I must increase my class to increase my character. The Role is the feature and armor feats I equip. Just admit that it is a class based skill game and we can move on. It is what it is, and I can live with it.
PVP - This is always a heated issue. People come to games like this was sold as to have fun with PVP. If you limit character growth because they PVP, then you will lose those people. I am not talking about actual griefing or scamming. Prevent that, all good. As said before, and I agree with, you cannot prevent griefing with a mechanic. What you also do not need to do is punish people for doing what you allow them to do. Put in the islands of non punished PVP. Make these areas the most valuable hexes in the game. Do this on top of what is already planned. People will absolutely risk pvp to get the good stuff. This was touted as a PVP sandbox game, anyone who signed up for it knows that, even the PVP haters. Crafting and Drops - Allow people to make the basic equipment, but do not require it. All monsters in game should have a NON-Diminishing chance to drop basic equipment. Let people focus on crafting the high end stuff, like T2 and T3. Diversify what mobs drop, ie Bandits drop leather armor and short bows, goblins drop short swords and spears, Orge's drop clubs and great swords... etc etc (that is just an example that should be expanded upon). I know the point of a player economy. Players drive the economy, and they should. I have no problems with that, but... Basic equipment should be dropped in high numbers for an extended period of time by every mob, then turned down. Jam the market with basic equipment then dial it back. People should not be required to spend countless hours crafting the stuff they need to play their characters. For instance, I have yet to find a single handed sword that is not a short sword. If I was playing a sword and board based fighter, I would be pretty upset. Allow a Focus - As a sandbox game, I should be able to choose a path I want my character to advance. If I choose to play a fighter, and do not want to craft or gather what so ever. There is no reason I should spend over a months worth of my xp on crafting skills in a years worth of play. (see Cheatle's breakdown in the 4.5 year capstone thread). I can agree to forcing diversity within a class. If I need to take different weapon feats for weapons I do not plan to use, I can understand that. I am playing a fighter after all. Not crafting or gathering on a particular character is a meaningful choice. Forcing me to take the skills that are not part of that class is not.
@GW Leadership - Remember that you are the face of GW and Pathfinder. Telling potential customers that you do not like them or ending rants with SMDH can be seen by everyone. I know I am not a great model for social policy, but I am also not speaking for a company trying to recruit customers. I have one friend who said she will not be coming to the game because of this alone (her opinion is that the crowdforging will be a joke because of this). I had her in alpha, and she is a Pathfinder supporter (Plays many sessions at GenCon every year). My guess is that this will be ignored due to the last statement alone. I urge you to take the criticism to heart and build on it. You can succeed.
101,672 wasted xp... Seriously... I will never understand why I have to wasted my paid for xp on gathering skills... That xp is 42.36 days... WOW, a month and a half's worth of xp on skills I do not want... Just to gain levels in my CLASS I have been avoiding the temptation to post here. 5 years of skill training will put you at 110 million skill points in Eve... Which is enough xp to be a master at every racial subcap pvp ship in Eve. My last Eve character, which was pure PVP was at 130 million skill points. That character had level 5 in every sub capital ship, and level 5 in every gunnery skill in the game. I was a bit short on missiles, but not by much. I had every shield and armor skill level 5 as well. And when I say every, I mean every single subcap skill excluding Black Ops, Marauders, and T3.
The current alpha has been up for just over a week. We started from scratch and gain xp as we would when the game launches. I play a couple hours a day, more on some days and less on others. I have found myself looking for the magic number of kills I need to increase a skill/class. So, not really a large amount of xp. Have been playing regularly. And still looking for what I have to grind.
Do not try to change the definition. That is the job of a backstabbing politician. They will get angry if you try to take their job... and will likely place sanctions on your company. They may even run smear campaigns against you in the next election. Of course, they are dumb enough to think you are in the campaign against them. I have found myself counting kills way to often to think of it in any other way then grinding. It is grinding for levels... CLASS levels. Its a class even if you want to call it a role. If I want to be a better healer, I have to increase my cleric levels. It is what it is. If you want it to be different, then make it different.
Honestly, the AI should still not be a priority. Mostly the AI is there for something to grind and gain achievements, and for gear. Past that they have little purpose. I would suggest, and take it as you will, that you work on the "other" features that go along with ranged combat. Leave ranged attacks as they are, and when you get the other things implemented we can give you feedback on the changes. That being (casts summon Being) said, if you want to make an easy number change that will affect PVE, increase the initial threat amount or decrease the threat loss. Dont put much effort into this though. Any changes you make could burn new characters into the ground.
Leashing is what mobs appear to be doing. No matter the actual mechanic.I believe Ryan's trying to avoid the scenario of people suggesting something like "increase the leash-length". It seems obvious as something to try if one thinks one's dealing with a leash, but it's an absolute non-starter if there's no leash, thus the suggestion was a waste of time. Actually, they can take that suggestion, "increase the leash length," and go with it. It just means decreasing the anger drop. The end result is that they chase you longer.
I understand what Ryan is trying to do. He is trying to change the language we use so that the game appears to outsiders as different. I cannot say I disagree with that. The game appearing as something new and different may help recruit more players. Leashing is what mobs appear to be doing. No matter the actual mechanic. They will absolutely get to a point, and turn around to run back to home. Even if you are absolutely murdering them. Classes is what we appear to have. They may be called roles because they are different then standard classes in other games. The roles absolutely limit you on skills you can increase just as a class would though. We have different things, kinda. Gamers will still call them the standard terms.
Newcomers cannot get starter gear from other players if they cannot make any money in the game. Only having low level monsters provide gear seams like an error to me. It will do exactly as you say, keeping higher level players around farming them. If all monsters have some form a drop, players will spread out. The market for basic equipment will saturate either way.
Ok, I can say this. The only time I have engaged in pvp that is relevant. I was locked down no problem while trying to be mobile. But that could just be the difference between a beginning character in T1 gear and a month old character in T3 gear.
It is happening here. Just a couple examples from the kickstarter... 1. No Grinding- Pathfinder Online uses a skill training system like that of EVE Online. You train skills by choosing what skill you want to train and allowing the time required to elapse. You don't train any faster by farming mobs or spamming your abilities than you do exploring the world, role playing with your friends, or even being offline. You will need to complete certain achievements to complete a skill and open up new avenues of training. I know it is improbable to create... we are not grinding for xp, but for loot instead... I do not see this as a problem really Not so much praised by the $$ backers as its normal. 2. No Classes- Unlike other games that give you a narrow range of abilities as you train your class, in Pathfinder you gain levels in different Roles based off what you have trained. This is a failure, but the big money backers will completely throw a fit if you tell them that. 3. Player Structures- Build your own homes, taverns, farms, and even cities! The Pathfinder Online world will be filled with places players can use to build and customize their own homes, businesses and communities. No complaints or praises from anyone here as its going to happen in most ways... though I think homes is a waste of time. 4. More Than A Gankfest- Unlike other Open World PVP MMO's currently on the market, Pathfinder Online actively discourages meaningless PVP. A meaningful alignment system that actually offers mechanical advantages to lawful and good aligned organizations, and a functional bounty system that allows the player to choose which players and organizations can collect the bounties they set discourages random and meaningless killing. Beyond this, the admins are taking a hard stance against 'griefing', in which players specifically seek to ruin the experience of other players, often through using game mechanics in ways that weren't intended. Griefing in PFO can be a bannable offence. Here the fan boys will applaud the changes away from an Open World PVP MMO. Heh, bounties are consider meaningful according to this.. so killing for money is ok... but the opposite has taken effect and the $$$$ backers applaud it. A large number of people who are interested in PVP, but are not griefers, have decided no not put much time or effort into the game As is right now, there is no PVP. If you PVP then you have no character. 5. All Players are Useful- This won't be like games where a new player has 49 health and a veteran has 49,000. The attacks from that new player won't automatically miss the veteran. A new player will be weaker, but still able to make a meaningful contribution to combat. As a sandbox where group sizes aren't limited, this means all players are useful, and don't have to segregate themselves by level. Here is as big of one as #4. Group sizes are not limited, complete failure... but the $$$$ backers applaud this as well. 6. Trade is Meaningful- In Pathfinder Online players must manually transport items to their intended destination. Most shops are player-run, and there will be goods more abundant in or even exclusive to certain regions. Merchants, traders, and even auctioneers are all viable professions. Unknown as of now, but no one really comments.
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