Interesting Thread at MMORPG.com


Pathfinder Online

51 to 100 of 136 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Goblin Squad Member

Audoucet wrote:
Except that you can get ISK in hundreds of manners. If I don't want to kill Serpentis lvl 1 missions, I don't have to.

I'm not certain what Serpentis is, but I'm going to assume this's appropriate commentary: there will eventually be lots of different ways to get Achievements of each type. Few of those options are in-game today, but the others' lack doesn't reduce the goal to absurdity.

Goblin Squad Member

Just in case there's anyone reading along who's confused about this, Ryan's been saying from the beginning that Achievements (formerly Merit Badges) would require engaging with the game.

This is from February, 2012:

TwiceGreat wrote:

However, my opinion stands that any D&D-based game should have some progression that is actually affected by game play. Why would I want to play I game where I can just not play to get better?

You'll love Pathfinder Online. You don't get any significant character ability without meaningfully interacting with the game system. That's what the merit badges are for.

RyanD

This is from September, 2012:

To earn those merit badges you have to do a bunch of stuff related to the merit badge. So, for example if we had a "Lift Bars" merit badge, you might have to lift 50 bars to earn it.

The Kickstarter was well after those posts. I think it's safe to say it was pretty well understood in the community at that time that Merit Badges would be "do this 10 times, do that 50 times, yada yada".

This idea that Ryan ever sold Merit Badges / Achievements as something where you would only have to "Lift this particularly awesome and heavy bar" is hogwash.

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.

The main problem with Audoucet's approach is that it gets people either laughing at him or angry at him, so that if he brings up a legitimate concern, or if he even comments on someone else's, it gets lost. If he can't accept that his vision for the game has currently been rejected then he'd be better off asking a couple of the other better communicators who share his view to do the debating for him. They might have a chance to influence where he can't.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

<Kabal> Daeglin wrote:
The main problem with Audoucet's approach is that it gets people either laughing at him or angry at him, so that if he brings up a legitimate concern, or if he even comments on someone else's, it gets lost. If he can't accept that his vision for the game has currently been rejected then he'd be better off asking a couple of the other better communicators who share his view to do the debating for him. They might have a chance to influence where he can't.

Your comment apply to people disagreeing with me man. Yes, fanboys laugh at me indeed.

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey now, I'm laughing at you as well, and I spent the last three months anti-fanboying GW.

Goblin Squad Member

Audoucet wrote:
Duffy wrote:
The gate is still there, but you have to expend real money thus adding to the monetary cost of maintaining the account. Even then PLEX is particularly built to cut the head off ISK farmers and keep things as legitimate as they can while feeding into the economy directly. In terms of account value you either play it or pump extra money into it, arguably they are 'equal' options, time is money and all that. Interestingly since someone buys the PLEX for ISK the perceived amount of money that goes to the devs per active account is the same across all active accounts, but can be imbalanced when considering just a single account.
Except that you can get ISK in hundreds of manners. If I don't want to kill Serpentis lvl 1 missions, I don't have to.

So you're not against engaging with the game to get what you need/want, just against engaging in ways you do not want to? Given the current state of the mechanics (i.e. the ones that exist) what engagement did you want instead of what we have?

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Gol Tink wrote:
Hey now, I'm laughing at you as well, and I spent the last three months anti-fanboying GW.

Well, you should remember that I was one of the only T7V to say to Nihimon & Decius to shut up when they were asking Golgotha to give up the land rush. :)

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Duffy wrote:
So you're not against engaging with the game to get what you need/want, just against engaging in ways you do not want to? Given the current state of the mechanics (i.e. the ones that exist) what engagement did you want instead of what we have?

It's a question of principle. Not something that I want specifically. I intended to create 5 characters, because I like specialised characters for each task. But I never thought that my PvP character would be forced to do PvE to progress.

If I was against engaging with the game, I would play O-Game.

Goblin Squad Member

Audoucet wrote:
But I never thought that my PvP character would be forced to do PvE to progress.

What specifically lead you to think this? Do you feel resentment because of unfulfilled wishes that were never promised to begin with?

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Audoucet wrote:
... I was one of the only T7V...

About that. I'm not sure if you're the "ex-member" Andius was alluding to recently, but in case it isn't obvious to you, and because you're ignoring all my attempts to reach you privately, I'm glad you gave me the opportunity to let everyone know that you've been suspended until you participate in a conversation with the Stewards.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Takasi wrote:
What specifically lead you to think this? Do you feel resentment because of unfulfilled wishes that were never promised to begin with?

The "NUMBER 1 FEATURE : NO GRINDING" mention. I'm a little stupid that way, I thought no grinding meant no grinding.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Nihimon wrote:
Saiph wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:

Audoucet wants to park characters on an account, let them accumulate XP for a long time, then rapidly train them to be uber as needed. He doesn't want to spend any time at all engaging with the content in the game except for killing other players (apparently).

It looks like an investment strategy to me, not a gaming strategy.

To be fair, I'm not sure that's what he wants. I do however know he doesn't want killing 250 goblins to be a gate. It's healthy if all of us look at exactly what the other person is trying to say, not what we think the other person wants; even if their delivery is horrendous.
I think Ryan's characterization of Audoucet's desires was pretty objectively accurate.

Really? That is why he has fought with me tooth and nail about PVP.

Ryan Dancey wrote:

You don't even level the characters.

Without any gates, a character with absolutely nothing training and a huge bank of XP will be extremely valuable. It gives the purchaser instant access to a totally customized character exactly configured to the buyer's immediate needs.

That's why he wants no gates.

Do you know this for fact or are you just speculating?

Goblinworks Executive Founder

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Nihimon wrote:
About that. I'm not sure if you're the "ex-member" Andius was alluding to recently, but in case it isn't obvious to you, and because you're ignoring all my attempts to reach you privately, I'm glad you gave me the opportunity to let everyone know that you've been suspended until you participate in a conversation with the Stewards.

I was going to answer you the other day, but I ended up seeing your stupid comment about immortality, so I just gave up. But yeah, if it wasn't obvious enough for you, I ain't T7V anymore.

Goblin Squad Member

Audoucet wrote:
The "NUMBER 1 FEATURE : NO GRINDING" mention. I'm a little stupid that way, I thought no grinding meant no grinding.

Is saying "a little stupid means a little stupid" a little stupid?

From the pitch:

1. No Grinding- Pathfinder Online uses a skill training system like that of EVE Online. You train skills by choosing what skill you want to train and allowing the time required to elapse. You don't train any faster by farming mobs or spamming your abilities than you do exploring the world, role playing with your friends, or even being offline. You will need to complete certain achievements to complete a skill and open up new avenues of training.

Audoucet, after reading this, what, exactly, do you think 'complete certain achievements' means? Complete certain achievements?

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Audoucet wrote:
Gol Tink wrote:
Hey now, I'm laughing at you as well, and I spent the last three months anti-fanboying GW.
Well, you should remember that I was one of the only T7V to say to Nihimon & Decius to shut up when they were asking Golgotha to give up the land rush. :)

Hey, if you are looking for somewhere to live, Golgotha gates are always open! :D

Goblin Squad Member

What is funny to me, is I think with OR tech in the game it would probably fix a lot of issues that I am seeing here. Also, there are several avenues already in the game to complete achievements that wouldn't be considered grinding.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Gol Tink wrote:
Hey, if you are looking for somewhere to live, Golgotha gates are always open! :D

Yeah no, I don't have the time you know, with all my account speculation ! And you know, I don't think I would find as much hard-core PvP and weak player killing to feed my blood-lust as I would have in T7V y'know .

Goblin Squad Member

Audoucet wrote:
... I ain't T7V anymore.

Fair enough.

Goblin Squad Member

Wow. Not angry I haven't even loaded the game yet.
I'll keep playing AoC for a while I guess.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Audoucet wrote:
Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Are you saying your 1600.00 investment was 16 post-kickstarter EE packs?

No, I am saying that I have : 500$ from the KS, 100$ for an EE access, and 900 to get the alpha update. And a few addons, I don't remember which ones because the GW interface sucks. And a DT I bought to someone who decided that he wouldn't play the game.

The 100$ EE is indeed a sold product.

$500 from the Tech Demo KS was for the Tech Demo to happen (it did) and for some physical goods, of which there were no major delivery problems I know of. Simply put, you got everything you paid for from that $500.

$100 for EE access is the standard purchase; you aren't in any deeper than anyone else.

Alpha access? Provided you have the ability to log in in alpha, you got everything you were ever even remotely promised. Alpha was never expected to be ready for release.

The best-founded complaint you have at the moment is that EE didn't start in q3 2014; it's slipped a month, so far. I hardly think that qualifies as being "stabbed in the back".

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Takasi wrote:
Audoucet, after reading this, what, exactly, do you think 'complete certain achievements' means? Complete certain achievements?

I don't know, something meaningful ? Like creating the best T2 bow to get T3 skills, not creating 100 average ones ?

Goblinworks Executive Founder

DeciusBrutus wrote:

$500 from the Tech Demo KS was for the Tech Demo to happen (it did) and for some physical goods, of which there were no major delivery problems I know of. Simply put, you got everything you paid for from that $500.

$100 for EE access is the standard purchase; you aren't in any deeper than anyone else.

Alpha access? Provided you have the ability to log in in alpha, you got everything you were ever even remotely promised. Alpha was never expected to be ready for release.

The best-founded complaint you have at the moment is that EE didn't start in q3 2014; it's slipped a month, so far. I hardly think that qualifies as being "stabbed in the back".

Yeah, you obviously completely followed the conversation.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Audoucet wrote:
I don't know, something meaningful ? Like creating the best T2 bow to get T3 skills, not creating 100 average ones ?

(Psst, not a good example, that is basically how crafting achievements work already)

Goblin Squad Member

Audoucet wrote:
I don't know, something meaningful ? Like creating the best T2 bow to get T3 skills, not creating 100 average ones ?

How can you gauge what's meaningful in a game state when your character's actions are not permanent yet?

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Audoucet wrote:
Duffy wrote:
So you're not against engaging with the game to get what you need/want, just against engaging in ways you do not want to? Given the current state of the mechanics (i.e. the ones that exist) what engagement did you want instead of what we have?

It's a question of principle. Not something that I want specifically. I intended to create 5 characters, because I like specialized characters for each task. But I never thought that my PvP character would be forced to do PvE to progress.

If I was against engaging with the game, I would play O-Game.

Has there been a statement that once real PvP is actually added to the game that PvP will never count towards achievements?

How do you feel about intent of design? Do you openly oppose it or fight against it when you run across it?

The intended design of PFO seems to indicate that PvP should be for specific gains that will always come with some costs (even to the aggressor) and possibly some long term ramifications. This implies to me that it is not meant to be constant on an individual level and therefore is not meant as a sole means of engagement, but as a carefully chosen path or momentous decision, with all that entails.

Furthermore that would indicate that the design assumes you will be doing other activities in between your bouts of PvP to support your decisive moments of PvP and thus your overall goals, which in turn implies that the game is somewhat designed against specializing too much. Some would see this as a benefit as it gives you wiggle room in your builds to add non-primary role optimal options without sacrificing efficiency, but in the case of someone who is willing to make separate specialized characters it would be seen as a hindrance.

So again the question of intent is brought back around and it would seem the intent of the game does not line up with your particular game views and play-style choices. Therefore you behave as you do, which is somewhat ironic since you are guilty of very thing you accuse others: you want what you want and no one can dissuade you from it, and anyone who disagrees with you is a blind fool.

I personally think EVE is a horrible excuse of a game and yet I do not feel the need to proverbially scream at the high heavens towards anyone that says otherwise. I'm sure it would easy if I desired it, those who continue to play it would most likely disagree with me.

Those here are mostly happy and content to be here and to engage in the ongoing conversation where they are not quite content. And I assume plenty of us, should we reach the point of significant discontent, are willing to quietly walk away and leave those who are still here to their own devices instead of railing against the oppressive design and letting our irrational anger and hatred that stems from our own personal preferences spew from our proverbial mouths.

Criticism is fine, but criticism is not inherently cruel, condescending, or angry. If you find that your criticism is always perceived as such then you are most likely doing it wrong.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Gol Tink wrote:
(Psst, not a good example, that is basically how crafting achievements work already)

Good news for crafters then !

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I find the attacks against Audoucet to be astounding, and all know he and I have clashed in the past.

For Ryan to come out as if he has at his finger tips the thoughts in Audoucets head is very disturbing to say the least. Perhaps he is up to his old email tricks again? (since we are delving into wild speculation, I might as well too).

Audoucet is getting a dose of the fury of the fanbois, I'm sure his eyes have been opened.

I have little doubt now, this thread will get locked and certain posts will disappear. I suggest those that want to save these little gems do so with screen shots or cut and pastes.

LOL... I just caught the Nihimon post that you are a disgruntled, former TSV member and you must be in cahoots with Andius. Or perhaps you are a deep cover plant (wild speculation still abounds). before you know it, I'll be blamed for it all.

This thread.... FTW!!

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You are to blame for it all Bludd. And the tsunami in japan too...

I'm saddened by what has transpired with Audocet, was looking forward to playing with him. I have no idea what's actually going on here. On one hand the rage quit attitude at a couple hours grind/month quacks like a duck who just wanted to flip accounts, as accused. On the other, why join a guild and be an active forum member just to flip?

It makes no sense to me how Audocet even expected to be good at PvP without actually playing his characters. He was in a guild that would have happily helped him power level any achievements and I think he knows that.

It has been explained a dozen times over that the type of merit badges he asked for are coming soon, very soon actually.

Sucks that this has happened, but nothing to do about it. The game design was always clear.

P.S. can i have your stuff? (srry, standard joke, must be made every time)

Goblin Squad Member

Xeen wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
Saiph wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:

Audoucet wants to park characters on an account, let them accumulate XP for a long time, then rapidly train them to be uber as needed. He doesn't want to spend any time at all engaging with the content in the game except for killing other players (apparently).

It looks like an investment strategy to me, not a gaming strategy.

To be fair, I'm not sure that's what he wants. I do however know he doesn't want killing 250 goblins to be a gate. It's healthy if all of us look at exactly what the other person is trying to say, not what we think the other person wants; even if their delivery is horrendous.
I think Ryan's characterization of Audoucet's desires was pretty objectively accurate.

Really? That is why he has fought with me tooth and nail about PVP.

Ryan Dancey wrote:

You don't even level the characters.

Without any gates, a character with absolutely nothing training and a huge bank of XP will be extremely valuable. It gives the purchaser instant access to a totally customized character exactly configured to the buyer's immediate needs.

That's why he wants no gates.

Do you know this for fact or are you just speculating?

I can not favorite Xeen's post twice, but I can do it this way!!!

Nihimon wrote:
I think Ryan's characterization of Audoucet's desires was pretty objectively accurate.

ob·jec·tive

əbˈjektiv/Submit
adjective

1.(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

Just how exactly does Ryan's speculation of Audoucet's desires equate to the objective consideration of facts?

Try Using a Dictionary

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Bluddwolf wrote:
fury of the fanbois

While I don't consider myself furious or a fanboi, going forward I will definitely side with the status quo.

As early enrollment begins and I start to irreversibly spend xp in the system I'm sure my position will 'dig in'. I'm sure I'll resist any changes that may invalidate my original character choices.

This does not make me a fanboi anymore than SWG players who resisted the New Game Experience. I can be a Grognard holding onto 'old ways'. I'm attracted primarily to this game because of the license which is based entirely on a system 'dug in' to an older version of D&D.

The Exchange Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Takasi wrote:
Audoucet wrote:
The "NUMBER 1 FEATURE : NO GRINDING" mention. I'm a little stupid that way, I thought no grinding meant no grinding.

Is saying "a little stupid means a little stupid" a little stupid?

From the pitch:

1. No Grinding- Pathfinder Online uses a skill training system like that of EVE Online. You train skills by choosing what skill you want to train and allowing the time required to elapse. You don't train any faster by farming mobs or spamming your abilities than you do exploring the world, role playing with your friends, or even being offline. You will need to complete certain achievements to complete a skill and open up new avenues of training.

Audoucet, after reading this, what, exactly, do you think 'complete certain achievements' means? Complete certain achievements?

I also had the NO-GRINDING in mind, and even if completing certain achievements was mentioned, i thought of specific quests such as finding a rare item or slaying a boss, whatever you want as far as it does not imply Grinding.

"IT IS TAX FREE, but you will need to contribute to the country growth"
- how will i contribute ?
- well the government will ask you to give money.
- so it is a tax ?
- no, no, it is not a tax, it is just a necessary financial compensation of not having taxes.
- ##??!!!

Goblin Squad Member

Easy, there, lets not sink to that level and try to keep the arguments rational and not personal.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

2 people marked this as a favorite.
T7V Avari wrote:

I guess the definition of fanboi is basically:

1. Anybody who actually took to heart what Goblinworks has been saying for the last 2.5 years about what EE was going to be like.

2. Dares to enjoy the game that is exactly in the state GW told us it would be at during this stage.

3. Nope that's it. Just 1 & 2 makes you a rabid fanboi eating out of Ryan hands.

I do consider it fanboyism, when someone starts a specific thread here, because a random guy criticised the game on a random forum. Or when people seem to get it personal, when you criticise the game. For example when Being tell you to shut your yap because you vaguely criticised something.

Avari, Cheatle... You are satisfied with the game and that's okay with me, but you're not in a stupid dogmatic stance. Sadly, it is not the case of everyone.

Goblin Squad Member

Sorry I had erased that, didn't want to take this down another road. But I did post that, hope it doesn't ruffle much.

I do feel like the people who are enjoying the game are getting called out even more than those that don't. That's all.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Bluddwolf wrote:
For Ryan to come out as if he has at his finger tips the thoughts in Audoucets head is very disturbing to say the least. Perhaps he is up to his old email tricks again?

I have different passwords for my account here and my email inbox. and if he looked in my Private messages, which I don't think he did since that would be illegal even on a private forum, the only thing he would have seen is me giving away my DT for free. You can ask Xeen. XD

Goblin Squad Member

Audoucet wrote:
and if he looked in my Private messages, which I don't think he did since that would be illegal even on a private forum

I've never heard of this legal advise in my state and country. Are you a lawyer and if so what precedent do you base this judgement on?

Goblinworks Executive Founder

I'm not a lawyer. I just happen to have a basic knowledge of my basic rights. You can look it up if you want, but you must understand that I don't have anything to prove to you, it's not a debate. I don't really care if you think that I am wrong.

Goblin Squad Member

Audoucet wrote:
I'm not a lawyer. I just happen to have a basic knowledge of my basic rights. You can look it up if you want, but you must understand that I don't have anything to prove to you, it's not a debate. I don't really care if you think that I am wrong.

You seem to have something to prove to someone by the fact that you're broadcasting a defense of your legal rights in a public forum.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Yes, and ?

Goblin Squad Member

*grabs popcorn, lounges back in chair*

Goblin Squad Member

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I got to say, Audoucet freaking out in both these threads is pretty entertaining :)

I'm curious--what's the opposite of a fanboi? A rageboi? I think we have our resident rageboi now :)

Goblin Squad Member

Yeah over a year in and this is the most entertaining thread I have read in this forum. +1s all around to fanbois and ragers alike(mostly ragers tho)

Honestly I may be raging a bit too, if I feel the way I currently feel about the state of the game and the direction it seems to be heading, had I spent 1600 dollars.

As is I spent $100 and at this point I still follow the forums and the game(sometimes I think it may just be habit at this point) to see if the game improves into a title that I'm looking for(READ: thought that is was from blog info and forum posts).

CEO, Goblinworks

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Rageboi (tm) to Mbando FTW.

Goblin Squad Member

Mbando wrote:

I got to say, Audoucet freaking out in both these threads is pretty entertaining :)

I'm curious--what's the opposite of a fanboi? A rageboi? I think we have our resident rageboi now :)

I believe that would be an anti-fanboi vs being a fanboi. The fanboi loves the game and the anti-fanboi hates the fanboi, neither can hide their all consuming passion.They have contempt for anyone who loves it so much ,kind of.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Whelp, this has been a thread.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Audoucet wrote:
... I was one of the only T7V...
About that. I'm not sure if you're the "ex-member" Andius was alluding to recently, but in case it isn't obvious to you, and because you're ignoring all my attempts to reach you privately, I'm glad you gave me the opportunity to let everyone know that you've been suspended until you participate in a conversation with the Stewards.

Yes, thanks for the heads up Nihimon. I'm sure "Everyone" knows now that Audoucet was suspened.

This is how I picture Audoucet in front of the Stewards:

TSV Conversation

Goblin Squad Member

Armenfrast wrote:
Takasi wrote:
Audoucet wrote:
The "NUMBER 1 FEATURE : NO GRINDING" mention. I'm a little stupid that way, I thought no grinding meant no grinding.

Is saying "a little stupid means a little stupid" a little stupid?

From the pitch:

1. No Grinding- Pathfinder Online uses a skill training system like that of EVE Online. You train skills by choosing what skill you want to train and allowing the time required to elapse. You don't train any faster by farming mobs or spamming your abilities than you do exploring the world, role playing with your friends, or even being offline. You will need to complete certain achievements to complete a skill and open up new avenues of training.

Audoucet, after reading this, what, exactly, do you think 'complete certain achievements' means? Complete certain achievements?

I also had the NO-GRINDING in mind, and even if completing certain achievements was mentioned, i thought of specific quests such as finding a rare item or slaying a boss, whatever you want as far as it does not imply Grinding.

"IT IS TAX FREE, but you will need to contribute to the country growth"
- how will i contribute ?
- well the government will ask you to give money.
- so it is a tax ?
- no, no, it is not a tax, it is just a necessary financial compensation of not having taxes.
- ##??!!!

LOL, thats it right there

Goblin Squad Member

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Well, since we are doing things so publicly, I'd like to officially resign from The Seventh Veil; I won't be a part of such righteous behavior. And, I won't be participating in a conversation with the Stewards. Please deactivate my forum account.

Going forward, I'd hope everyone, including those in disagreement, bestow dignity and respect - even to adversaries.

Goblin Squad Member

Saiph wrote:

Well, since we are doing things so publicly, I'd like to officially resign from The Seventh Veil; I won't be a part of such righteous behavior. And, I won't be participating in a conversation with the Stewards. Please deactivate my forum account.

Going forward, I'd hope everyone, including those in disagreement, bestow dignity and respect - even to adversaries.

Well, giving Audoucet the benefit of the doubt enough to give him the opportunity to discuss the fact that he was offering help to our enemies precisely because they were our enemies and he sought to damage us seemed pretty benign to me.

And yes, it's important to me that folks not associate the kind of behavior we've seen recently from Audoucet with The Seventh Veil.

51 to 100 of 136 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Paizo / Licensed Products / Digital Games / Pathfinder Online / Interesting Thread at MMORPG.com All Messageboards