Goblin Squad Member
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To any of us who don't know the story, it was completely generic until the response made it otherwise. A person can needle another in a mostly private fashion, even in a public posting. It only becomes a thing when somebody makes it obvious that there was needling going on.
I agree that the "high road" is to completely ignore the drama and stay out of it. That's exceptionally difficult to do when you're the one being needled - we're all human, after all - and it's obviously fairly difficult to do even when the events have nothing whatsoever to do with you - but again, we're all human.
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Goblin Squad Member
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On a side note, I may be using descriptions of gear in a different and potentially inaccurate manner.
I view the number of Key Words available to an item as a tier. So that would look to me like:
+0 = tier 0
+1 = tier 1
+2 = tier 2
+3 = tier 3
+4 = tier 4
+5 = tier 5
I myself (on Bluddwolf) have +2 or +3 armor, Short sword, and a Short Bow. We are fully capable of producing +5 gear, but we are likely not going to take that into PVP situations.
We prefer to use +0 or at best +1 for basic "day-to-day" PVP so that we can become accustomed to having reasonable success with as small an expenditure of risk as possible.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Tier 2 Weapons have the Masterwork Keyword, and use the middle result from 3d200. The weapons and armor I made sure you got from Bonny before PvPing you back in Alpha 6 (or thereabouts) were all Tier 2. Tier 1 Weapons can go up to +5, as can all the other Tiers.
I'm not sure if there's anyone in the game right now who can utilize Tier 2 Weapons.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Tier 2 Weapons have the Masterwork Keyword, and use the middle result from 3d200. The weapons and armor I made sure you got from Bonny before PvPing you back in Alpha 6 (or thereabouts) were all Tier 2. Tier 1 Weapons can go up to +5, as can all the other Tiers.
I'm not sure if there's anyone in the game right now who can utilize Tier 2 Weapons.
I'm not all that sure the +3 Short Bow I have now is all that different from the one Bonny gave me back in alpha 6.
That is really besides the point I was making... So I reiterate:
I'm hopeful that full implementation of basic PVP finds its way in as MVP of Early Enrollment.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Zing!Maybe you meant that one person in +2 weapon and armor takes three Aragonians, in the gear that Aragon makes, to chase off.
There was no zing, he lost more than he won and against naked noobs for many of the fights.
+2 weapon and +2 armor and the feats to utilize them versus +0 weapons and no armor on one of my toons, proved that Goonswarm zerg tactics will work in PFO.
Goblin Works has always tried to have it both ways. You can not have "there is not a steep power curve" and "numbers won't count as much as in other games".
We learned that numbers will matter more, once the gear threading limits and gear loss of PVP is fully implemented.
Surely that was to be expected ?
As we all know +2 (or even +3) T1 gear gives a nice but small damage increment that gives a slight edge, that is it. Each plus adds about 7 base hitpoints so maybe 10 to 20 extra damage per plus per attack. Useful but not overpowering compared to newbie gear.
T2 weps on the other hand average just over 100 on a D200 roll instead of 50ish. Now THAT will translate to a substantial increase in hit ratio, number of crits and damage as well. T2 gear should have a substantial edge over newbie gear.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Tier 2 Weapons have the Masterwork Keyword, and use the middle result from 3d200. The weapons and armor I made sure you got from Bonny before PvPing you back in Alpha 6 (or thereabouts) were all Tier 2. Tier 1 Weapons can go up to +5, as can all the other Tiers.
I'm not sure if there's anyone in the game right now who can utilize Tier 2 Weapons.
Otherway around actually.
Plenty of people have trained attacks and spells to level 4 (often by mistake) and hence COULD use T2 weps if they were available.
What very few if any people in Alpha can do is use the +3 T1 weps/staffs etc that are around as training an attack or spell to level 5 (required for full damage from T1 +3 weps) needs an advanced settlement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Zing!Maybe you meant that one person in +2 weapon and armor takes three Aragonians, in the gear that Aragon makes, to chase off.
There was no zing, he lost more than he won and against naked noobs for many of the fights.
+2 weapon and +2 armor and the feats to utilize them versus +0 weapons and no armor on one of my toons, proved that Goonswarm zerg tactics will work in PFO.
Goblin Works has always tried to have it both ways. You can not have "there is not a steep power curve" and "numbers won't count as much as in other games".
We learned that numbers will matter more, once the gear threading limits and gear loss of PVP is fully implemented.
To put this in context it's like saying someone in a T2 frigate died to people in partially geared T1 and starter frigates. It may not be as impressive as killing someone in a cruiser or battleship but it would take take an incredibly substantial number of kills by the T2 frigate to equal the hurt inflicted on them by losing a single ship.
People generally never even PvP in starter ships because they are considered so weak. The fact Decius lost died at all and then bragged about it shows just how embarrassingly outclassed Phaeros is in terms of skill, tactics, and knowledge of the genre.
It will be quite funny to see Aragonian forces show up to major engagements decked out in gear made by Phaeros and their allies after Phaeros decides throwing away high end gear is worth it for the epeen points they score with meaningless kills.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's sobering when those who espouse good community try to instigate drama and conflict, while those promoting banditry remain courteous and reasoned.It may not have been obvious to you, but it was extremely obvious to some that this statement from Bluddwolf was a direct, and extremely dishonest, attack on Decius.
Until then a fully decked out character in heavy armor and evey stitch of gear is t2 or t3, can fight off three noobs in t1 gear; lose once and win three times and declare victory.Doesn't that strike you as just a little bit too specific to be "just a general example"? Or are you inclined to give Bluddwolf the benefit of the doubt that his "non-specific example" just happened to directly correlate to the events he experienced fighting against Decius for control of some Towers?
So Decius had T2 or T3 gear on?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Tier 2 Weapons have the Masterwork Keyword, and use the middle result from 3d200. The weapons and armor I made sure you got from Bonny before PvPing you back in Alpha 6 (or thereabouts) were all Tier 2. Tier 1 Weapons can go up to +5, as can all the other Tiers.
I'm not sure if there's anyone in the game right now who can utilize Tier 2 Weapons.
I have the Masterwork keyword on a couple feats, I just dont have a weapon.
No one in game can utilize +3 weapons.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Doesn't that strike you as just a little bit too specific to be "just a general example"? Or are you inclined to give Bluddwolf the benefit of the doubt that his "non-specific example" just happened to directly correlate to the events he experienced fighting against Decius for control of some Towers?So Decius had T2 or T3 gear on?
And he won more times than he lost?
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Goblin Squad Member
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And he won more times than he lost?Doesn't that strike you as just a little bit too specific to be "just a general example"? Or are you inclined to give Bluddwolf the benefit of the doubt that his "non-specific example" just happened to directly correlate to the events he experienced fighting against Decius for control of some Towers?So Decius had T2 or T3 gear on?
He certainly did not. He did kill one of our dedicated crafters a lot though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Andius,
Who won and who lost (as individuals) was not the basis for my post. As I mentioned earlier, my own use of the term of tiers may be inaccurate, however I do believe that there is a difference in the number of key words available.
The point I was making was that numbers trumps character feat levels, and gear +s. Furthermore, if there was full implementation of encumbrance, player looting and threading limits, the PVP that we are playing with in Alpha will be dramatically different than what we should have in EE.
I did not bring up any names, for the very reason that I wanted to use a real experience to illustrate the point.
The fact that person that participated in the event decided to step forward and claim it was him, does not alter my intention. The fact that he wished to make it a statement of victory, means nothing to me, other than the fact that it is disjointed from the reality:
This is not PVP that we are doing in Alpha, because it is not based on Risk vs. Reward decisions.
If all of the risks we have been promised were present, would anyone attack three other players (even naked noob ones)... solo.... in +2 or +3 gear?
The only reason it was done in this circumstance is that the attacker had no risk.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To any of us who don't know the story, it was completely generic until the response made it otherwise. A person can needle another in a mostly private fashion, even in a public posting. It only becomes a thing when somebody makes it obvious that there was needling going on.I agree that the "high road" is to completely ignore the drama and stay out of it. That's exceptionally difficult to do when you're the one being needled - we're all human, after all - and it's obviously fairly difficult to do even when the events have nothing whatsoever to do with you - but again, we're all human.
There was no needling on my part, otherwise I would have used names. I specifically did not because I had a point to make and did not want to muddle it up with this drama.
What seems to have gotten under your skin is that fact that others have seen the reasoning behind my example and my drama free presentation of it.
Why don't you take the high road and address the points I've made about the nature of PVP, instead of claiming victimhood at the hands of some slight that never took place?
Do you consider the current state of PVP, without meaningful choices and risks, to be Minimum Viable Product?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm not sure if there's anyone in the game right now who can utilize Tier 2 Weapons.Otherway around actually.
Plenty of people have trained attacks and spells to level 4 (often by mistake) and hence COULD use T2 weps if they were available.
Quite right, thanks for correcting me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why don't you take the high road and address the points I've made about the nature of PVP, instead of claiming victimhood at the hands of some slight that never took place?
I'd rather give the rest of the community an opportunity to weigh in again on the tenor of the conversation.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you did not have the protection against loss, you would have disengaged after your first or second loss. Your equipment would have been looted.
Why do you think this is the case?
We don't know any specific numbers on the threading limitations, but from everything I've heard, its a pretty safe assumption that a level 7-8 character will be able to thread his T2 armor and weapon. Maybe his glove / boot slot won't be able to be fully threaded.So when full looting and threading are implemented, a T2 equipped character that is prepared for a fight (ie, isn't carrying a couple hours worth of gathering and PVE looting with him) that engages three T1 equipped opponents that are also prepared for a fight, the result will be exactly what you describe:
A few deaths on either side, a few points of durability loss, until one side or the other disengages and both declare victory.
*Edit: to be clear, I think this outcome is a good thing. If you aren't fighting over a location, or to disrupt someone's harvesting, then objectiveless brawling in the woods should be generally inconclusive and relatively harmless to the participants, except for rep penalties.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why don't you take the high road and address the points I've made about the nature of PVP, instead of claiming victimhood at the hands of some slight that never took place?I'd rather give the rest of the community an opportunity to weigh in again on the tenor of the conversation.
They have, and still have the opportunity to do so.
It's sobering when those who espouse good community try to instigate drama and conflict, while those promoting banditry remain courteous and reasoned.
This reminds me of one of my favorite scenes / lines from Black Sails:
“Are you as surprised as I am that I’m the only one here behaving myself?” ― Charles Vane, Black Sails.
@ Gaskon,
I recall it being said that a new character's starting gear (low level stuff) would be possible to be completely threaded. I'm hopeful that does not cover the threading of everything up to T1 + 5 gear, just because it is still tier 1.
I also recall that the number of threads you have are lower at lower level, and higher end gear will take up more threads.
We shall have to wait and see how threading will work, which is why I'm arguing it is a part of MVP at EE.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's sobering when those who espouse good community try to instigate drama and conflict, while those promoting banditry remain courteous and reasoned.
Exactly. I'm wondering if those who felt it was appropriate to chastise either Decius or Mbando (I'm honestly not sure which) have any interest in speaking up about any of the posts made since that chastisement. Or if it's only those who "espouse good community" that deserve to be chastised - a very odd incentive system if you ask me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I recall it being said that a new character's starting gear (low level stuff) would be possible to be completely threaded. I'm hopeful that does not cover the threading of everything up to T1 + 5 gear, just because it is still tier 1.
As a player advances, she can purchase more threads. However, items of higher quality and tier require more threads. A starting character with starting gear has sufficient threads to protect all the gear she is likely to carry (one weapon, a set of armor, and a half dozen or so miscellaneous items). A character that has reached level 20 in a role and has all top-quality gear, meanwhile, may only be able to protect her armor and one weapon, three weapons and a miscellaneous item, or some other combination (but she could protect a larger amount of gear if she were willing to use weaker items for some of her slots). And a new player given a top-tier weapon may not be able to bind anything else but that.
Previously, we mentioned that we hoped to avoid the concept of item damage. But the more we thought about it, the more we figured that there would be a certain class of item (primarily weapons and armor) that would always be threaded and thus never leave the economy.
Every mention of threading I can easily find makes me confident that the intent will be to allow characters to thread their primary armor and weapon. So any prepared combatant is really only risking item damage, plus the loss of any consumables they decided to carry.
Thus, being killed by 3 newbies while wearing mid-rank (t2) gear is unlikely to be a significant loss. As I understand EVE (I'm not an eve player), this is different from losing 50k ISK of small ships to kill one 100M ISK medium ship.
Also, the loser of a fight will have a greater incentive to re-engage the people that killed him, because he's now risking nothing other than additional item damage, while the people that killed and looted him are risking all the loot they just took.
So if three T1 equipped people fight with a single T2 equipped person over multiple respawns, and each side gets a few kills, the determination of "victory" should be based less on who killed who the most times, but on what percentage of their settlement's production got destroyed in the combat, and I can easily picture both sides being convinced they "won" the engagement. Which should make for some interesting bragging / flame wars afterwards.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...allow characters to thread their primary armor and weapon.It'll be interesting to see at what point the rob-Peter-to-pay-Paul game of balancing equipment and threads available begins.
Based on the blog posts, I'm guessing not until you're equipping T3 gear.
I'll bet the choices for a level 15+ character will be: wear T2 and thread it all, or wear T3 and thread 3/4 of my gear.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...the people that killed and looted him are risking all the loot they just took.
This is an excellent point, Gaskon, and one I don't remember seeing put forth before. If nothing else, it'll introduce the calculus of shoot-and-scoot vs hang-around-for him-to-come-back-perhaps-with-friends.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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He certainly did not. He did kill one of our dedicated crafters a lot though.And he won more times than he lost?Doesn't that strike you as just a little bit too specific to be "just a general example"? Or are you inclined to give Bluddwolf the benefit of the doubt that his "non-specific example" just happened to directly correlate to the events he experienced fighting against Decius for control of some Towers?So Decius had T2 or T3 gear on?
A "dedicated crafter" who hung out in and around the capture zone of several towers, and in one case was killed inside a capture zone within a minute of the time it was officially captured.
There were a couple of times I cleared out several AFK characters sitting at a capture point, but I'm not counting those as skirmishes.
Once I actually put on my +2 armor, I took no durability damage. I did cede one tower to three and failed to prevent another from being captured.
On actively contested towers, I admit that I had one victory to two losses; but I inflicted a lot more durability loss than I took- and at least some of it was on an axe better than starter gear (I can't yet identify all weapons by their model, but I can recognize a few.)
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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On a side note, I may be using descriptions of gear in a different and potentially inaccurate manner.
I view the number of Key Words available to an item as a tier.
Just skimming this thread, but it sounds like you're partly having a semantics fight. Tier is a completely different thing than plus/upgrade. Tier 2 is not the same as +2. Each of the three Tiers has the full range of pluses from +0 to +5. Going up a Tier is similar to getting another +4 worth of upgrade (and +50 attack or defense): it makes a really big difference. Going up by +1 or +2 makes a much smaller difference.
Having more players will certainly make a big difference in how a fight goes when everyone is in the same Tier, even if the smaller side has a higher upgrade within that Tier. A full Tier higher on the smaller side should start to compensate somewhat for numbers.
But I don't think we've ever said that swarms of newbs will be ineffectual, even against maxed out characters. They may need to use starter energy damage attacks if the target is almost immune to their physical damage and vice versa, their effects will be mostly negligible, and they'll drop fast if the maxed out guy targets them, but they should be able to accomplish something in a way they totally couldn't in a traditional MMO with a level 1 to max level disparity.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Do you consider the current state of PVP, without meaningful choices and risks, to be Minimum Viable Product?
To answer the question directly: no. I think that player husks should be part of MVP, but threading need not be. Likewise some measure of feud or war, but not the complicating aspect of influence, is minimum product IMO.
However, I don't think that any amount of forum warring will change the MVP feature list in the Goblinworks office, and that one is the only one that matters.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Exactly. I'm wondering if those who felt it was appropriate to chastise either Decius or Mbando (I'm honestly not sure which) have any interest in speaking up about any of the posts made since that chastisement. Or if it's only those who "espouse good community" that deserve to be chastised - a very odd incentive system if you ask me.It's sobering when those who espouse good community try to instigate drama and conflict, while those promoting banditry remain courteous and reasoned.
Not quite sure what you're looking for here, Nihimon. It's been increasingly clear as the thread has progressed that baiting is not an isolated issue. I don't think people need a statement from me to see that. It's unfortunate all round. Perhaps these tit for tats seem justifiable for the people who have been sparring on the boards for a couple of years, but consider that to those without the background, it may be difficult to see any difference between people. I won't debate a subjective impression. Everyone can carry on.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not quite sure what you're looking for here, Nihimon.
Balance. Temperance. A sense of proportion and history. Perhaps even an acknowledgment that your statement could be taken as "instigating drama and conflict".
Most of all, I'd like to not be held to an impossible standard while those on "the other side" are not held to any standard at all.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Semantics aside - people really should not be calling higher plus gear T2 or T3.
To use a real world example its like saying putting twin carbs on your 4 cylinder car makes it a V6 and after adding a tuned exhaust as well you now tell people you drive a V8.
The +1. +2 and even +3 T1 weapons give a nice incremental damage increase providing you have a attacks trained to match but the difference is not amazing.
Upgrading to T2 and T3 gear is a totally different ball game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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On a side note, I may be using descriptions of gear in a different and potentially inaccurate manner.
I view the number of Key Words available to an item as a tier.
Just skimming this thread, but it sounds like you're partly having a semantics fight. Tier is a completely different thing than plus/upgrade. Tier 2 is not the same as +2. Each of the three Tiers has the full range of pluses from +0 to +5. Going up a Tier is similar to getting another +4 worth of upgrade (and +50 attack or defense): it makes a really big difference. Going up by +1 or +2 makes a much smaller difference.
Having more players will certainly make a big difference in how a fight goes when everyone is in the same Tier, even if the smaller side has a higher upgrade within that Tier. A full Tier higher on the smaller side should start to compensate somewhat for numbers.
But I don't think we've ever said that swarms of newbs will be ineffectual, even against maxed out characters. They may need to use starter energy damage attacks if the target is almost immune to their physical damage and vice versa, their effects will be mostly negligible, and they'll drop fast if the maxed out guy targets them, but they should be able to accomplish something in a way they totally couldn't in a traditional MMO with a level 1 to max level disparity.
Thank you for this clarification. I was certain I was using the terminology inaccurately from what you have said here. But, in the absence of true tier 2 or tier 3 gear, I could not think of an alternative term to use for the difference between T1 gear with their various pluses.
How about using T1+3 for Tier 1 and 3 keywords, T2+1 for Tier 2 and 1 keyword etc?
If I understand the example used earlier correct, one guy using T1+2/3 gear had an even fight with three T1+0 geared guys?
That doesn't seem unbalanced in favour of the swarm to me. Knowing that the more substantial upgrade is going from T1 to T2, he probably would win every time if wearing T2+3 gear fighting the same guys.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just to clarify things.
- each extra "plus" only adds 7 base damage times damage modifier
- whereas higher tier uses a better attack roll averaging 50ish at T1, 100 or so at T2 and up around 150 at T3
Training up attacks and spells* :
level 1 spell/attack - optimal with T1 +0 weapon
level 2 spell/attack - optimal with T1 +1 weapon (can also use weapons above at weapons effectiveness)
level 3 spell/attack - optimal with T1 +2 weapon (can also use weapons above at weapons effectiveness)
level 4 spell/attack - optimal with T2 +2 weapon (can also use weapons above at weapons effectiveness, does NOT use T1+3 weapons to full potential of weapon)
level 5 spell/attack - optimal with T2 +3 weapon (can also T1+3 weapons to full potential and any above at weapons effectiveness)
Level 5 is the first level capable of using a T1+3 weapon. This is important +3 weapons are useless before level 5 attacks at which point you can then use either T1+3 or T2+3 weps.
* note - with spell you must match correct weapon, yes diminishing staff versus charged staff or occult focus versus battle really does matter. Spells must be on correct type once you get above +0
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just to clarify things.
- each extra "plus" only adds 7 base damage times damage modifier
- whereas higher tier uses a better attack roll averaging 50ish at T1, 100 or so at T2 and up around 150 at T3
Shouldn't this be:
Basic Keyword (B) +5 per plus
Advanced Keyword (A) +20 per plus
?
So the progression is (not taking in to effect enchantment; and assuming adequate feat levels):
T1 +0 (1B)= +5
T1 +1 (2B)= +10
T1 +2 (3B)= +15
T1 +3 (4B)= +20
T2 +0 (1A+1B)= +25
T2 +1 (1A+2B)= +30
T2 +2 (1A+3B)= +35
T2 +3 (1A+4B)= +40
T3 +0 (2A+1B)= +45
T3 +1 (2A+2B)= +50
T3 +2 (2A+3B)= +55
T3 +3 (2A+1B)= +60
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just to clarify things.
- each extra "plus" only adds 7 base damage times damage modifier
- whereas higher tier uses a better attack roll averaging 50ish at T1, 100 or so at T2 and up around 150 at T3Shouldn't this be:
Basic Keyword (B) +5 per plus
Advanced Keyword (A) +20 per plus
?So the progression is (not taking in to effect enchantment; and assuming adequate feat levels):
T1 +0 (1B)= +5
T1 +1 (2B)= +10
T1 +2 (3B)= +15
T1 +3 (4B)= +20
T2 +0 (1A+1B)= +25
T2 +1 (1A+2B)= +30
T2 +2 (1A+3B)= +35
T2 +3 (1A+4B)= +40
T3 +0 (2A+1B)= +45
T3 +1 (2A+2B)= +50
T3 +2 (2A+3B)= +55
T3 +3 (2A+1B)= +60
Looks right.
Although its important to remember the higher Tiers also use the next highest d200 so get better average attack rolls as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not quite sure what you're looking for here, Nihimon.Balance. Temperance. A sense of proportion and history. Perhaps even an acknowledgment that your statement could be taken as "instigating drama and conflict".
Most of all, I'd like to not be held to an impossible standard while those on "the other side" are not held to any standard at all.
People hold you to that stranded because you take a sanctimonious tone and try to act like you are saving PFO single handedly. No one holds Bludd to any kind of standard like that because he has never pretended to be anything other then what he is.
I am almost positive that this post will be responded to with some sort of quote from another unrelated thread to undermine my post but its honestly what I've come to expect form almost everyone on these boards. At this point I just can't wait for all of us to finally be able to stab each other and have it count for something. Maybe it will give all the forum warriors something else to talk about at long last.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just to clarify things.
- each extra "plus" only adds 7 base damage times damage modifier
- whereas higher tier uses a better attack roll averaging 50ish at T1, 100 or so at T2 and up around 150 at T3Shouldn't this be:
Basic Keyword (B) +5 per plus
Advanced Keyword (A) +20 per plus
?So the progression is (not taking in to effect enchantment; and assuming adequate feat levels):
T1 +0 (1B)= +5
T1 +1 (2B)= +10
T1 +2 (3B)= +15
T1 +3 (4B)= +20
T2 +0 (1A+1B)= +25
T2 +1 (1A+2B)= +30
T2 +2 (1A+3B)= +35
T2 +3 (1A+4B)= +40
T3 +0 (2A+1B)= +45
T3 +1 (2A+2B)= +50
T3 +2 (2A+3B)= +55
T3 +3 (2A+1B)= +60Looks right.
Although its important to remember the higher Tiers also use the next highest d200 so get better average attack rolls as well.
Yes, of course.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not quite sure what you're looking for here, Nihimon.Balance. Temperance. A sense of proportion and history. Perhaps even an acknowledgment that your statement could be taken as "instigating drama and conflict".
Most of all, I'd like to not be held to an impossible standard while those on "the other side" are not held to any standard at all.
People hold you to that stranded because you take a sanctimonious tone and try to act like you are saving PFO single handedly. No one holds Bludd to any kind of standard like that because he has never pretended to be anything other then what he is.
I am almost positive that this post will be responded to with some sort of quote from another unrelated thread to undermine my post but its honestly what I've come to expect form almost everyone on these boards. At this point I just can't wait for all of us to finally be able to stab each other and have it count for something. Maybe it will give all the forum warriors something else to talk about at long last.
At least Nihimon is positive about the game and attempts to defend it and this community because he actually wants it to succeed.
It seems like all that Bludd, and you other followers, want is to have the game YOUR way, because you think your way is the best way, or the RIGHT way (because that's what they did in EvE, right?).
And so, now, you feel that isn't happening, and you bring your negativity and aggressive, abusive tones to these forums, as well as taking any and every opportunity to slander and defame not only Nihimon, but other community members as well.
Yes, we do look forward to getting to fight you in-game. Until then, keep your cowardly 'word daggers' out of our backs.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was wondering if the sacred "community" would make it into someones response to my post. Glad to not be disappointed.
I don't see how you can think that I want this game to be a failure which you have seemed to imply. I've been following it with varying levels of interest for over two years now.
Everyone wants the game their way. Some people want more pvp some people want less. I'm sure there will be some sort of middle ground that will keep most people happy.
There is not a single "side" to any of these arguments that has at some point not been reduced to negativity aggressiveness abusive tones and slander. (I liked all the buzz words you put in there)
I also kind of resent that you've lumped me in with Bludd we are parts of completely different organizations.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So I think at this point community =
1. Anyone who wouldn't start non-consensual PvP.
2. Anyone who's never said an ill word about Phaeros, their allies, or any of their members.
3. Anyone who likes this game and has not criticized it.
And of course anyone else is a troll/griefer/random ganker/murderhobo/destroying this game/destroying this community/doesn't belong here.
So prettymuch the community is THEIR community. Nobody else matters.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Welcome to "No longer a part of the community" status Audoucet.
We'll see. If Kathalphys can maintain their interest in this title Phaeros doesn't stand a chance of outlasting them. At this point though I'm seeing a lot of people in the community inside and outside of Aragon taking an interest in LiF over PFO because they are offering us a quality product instead of excuses and justifications.
I think most groups plan to give PFO another chance once EE begins and check it's state again before their paid time runs out. If this game isn't much better by then I think you'll see PFO fall into the same cycle of many of it's competitors where you see a small population that occasional spikes for expansions and then falls back down. If Paizo doesn't decide it's dead weight and end it's suffering.
Those competitors also started small promising they would eventually give you the sky and delivering little bits and pieces of it over the years that followed, so PFO won't be unique in that regard.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh, how disappointing. See ya!
You say to almost everyone who's played this game outside your club of delusional fanboys.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You seem to think I'm leaving. You forgot that your settlement isn't a heap of ashes yet. Some of my current kingdom's members may leave but don't think I haven't noticed your settlement bleeding members too.
Nobody in Aragon has actually decided to quit and everyone is still loyal to Aragon whether Aragon as a settlement in PFO or whatever form it may take in LiF. We're actually standing on a stronger platform than you it's just that many of the members have drunk the Kool Aid and fully committed themselves to PFO whether it ever produces a quality products or not.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What's the point? Half the people won't acknowledge there is any problem and simply expect us to accept GW's position on everything even when we can clearly see it's not working, and at this point it seems anything the other half says is being ignored for the most part so GW can do whatever they want.
Does anyone remember where the community requested that grenades and 8 different melee weapons each with their own set of completely unique attacks make it into the MVP release? What about escalations and auction houses?
Take away about half the content in this game, make the other half actually work, and add in the feud system and you actually have a pretty decent game. I wish people could start seeing that instead of letting GW hide behind the "it's an Alpha excuse" that their competitors with 75% positive reviews for their paid alpha don't have to rely on.
The great thing is that having half-assed content is worse than not having it at all too. If people come into the game, see an auction house, try to use it and discover that there is practically nothing there and you can't sort it out by items that are actually being sold..... the disappointment of then having to go barter with people in person will weigh on you much heavier than if there had never been an auction house to begin with.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So I think at this point community =
1. Anyone who wouldn't start non-consensual PvP.
2. Anyone who's never said an ill word about Phaeros, their allies, or any of their members.
3. Anyone who likes this game and has not criticized it.And of course anyone else is a troll/griefer/random ganker/murderhobo/destroying this game/destroying this community/doesn't belong here.
So prettymuch the community is THEIR community. Nobody else matters.
You forgot to plug LiF again.