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Hey all,
The Lunge feat says: "Benefit: You can increase the reach of your melee attacks by 5 feet until the end of your turn by taking a –2 penalty to your AC until your next turn. You must decide to use this ability before any attacks are made."
I think this is pretty straight forward. Any melee attacks you make during your turn can be made with 5 foot reach if you accept the -2 penalty to AC until your next turn. This means that this benefit does not apply to OAs. I get that, no problem.
Monkey Lunge, however, is causing issues with the way its worded: "Benefit: As a standard action, you can use the Lunge feat to increase the reach of your melee attacks by 5 feet until the end of your turn, without suffering a penalty to your AC."
What does it mean by "as a standard action you can use the lunge feat..."
Does it mean that you have to use a standard action to sort of "activate" the monkey lunge aspect of lunge? That doesn't make any sense to me because it's until the end of your turn...there would be no action on which to actually execute the monkey lunge.
So, assuming it doesn't need that standard to 'activate' then I have two other guesses as to why that 'standard action' is in the description of monkey lunge:
1) You can only monkey lunge as part of an attack action, meaning you can't do it as part of a full-round action (like you couldn't monkey lunge while spring attacking, for instance); or
2) The phrase is unnecessary in the description and it should really read more like: "Benefit: You can use the Lunge feat to increase the reach of your melee attacks by 5 feet until the end of your turn, without suffering a penalty to your AC."
Anyone have any insight? I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks!
-Ed
FAQ'd. Makes no sense. Good catch.
I would go with your first interpretation, but that's only because, well, it seems more balanced? I guess?
Where's Monkey Lunge?
Where's Monkey Lunge?Pathfinder Companion: Sargava, the lost colony.
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In my opinion the feat should just remove the AC penalty, no need to further restrict lunge to a single attack (which I believe was probably the authors intention with the stardard action bit.)
I agree. I feel like if you are willing to invest two feats, then unrestricted ability to a 5-foot reach isn't overpowered and doesn't need to be limited. That said, I don't think that limitation is a deal-breaker either.
I agree. I feel like if you are willing to invest two feats, then unrestricted ability to a 5-foot reach isn't overpowered and doesn't need to be limited. That said, I don't think that limitation is a deal-breaker either.Where's Monkey Lunge?Pathfinder Companion: Sargava, the lost colony.
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In my opinion the feat should just remove the AC penalty, no need to further restrict lunge to a single attack (which I believe was probably the authors intention with the stardard action bit.)
Too early for a thread-bump? Sorry, just really curious to hear more about this one.
i read it as a standard action, make a lunge attack with no -2 ac
which is crap. i'd much prefer a " ignore -2 penalty from lunge"
I read it similarly.
1. It takes a standard action, like cleave, but you do not take a -2 to AC.
2. It is crap. Who ever is writing these feats really likes throwing in a lot of action costs, it does not make me happy, feats are supposed to stack. I am looking at you arcane armor training!
Bump!
Anyone have any new thoughts on this? I'd love to know soon as I play again Sunday. Anyone? Bueller?
Yar!
The feat is pretty self explanatory. Sure, you may think it's a crappy feat, but it does exactly what it says it does.
With just Lunge, you make any/all of your attacks at +5' reach, but suffer -2 AC.
With Monkey Lunge, you can make one attack as a standard action (thus, only one attack, and no stacking with anything else) at +5' reach, but suffer NO penalty to AC.
That is what the feat does. It is quite clear about it.
Is it a good feat? In my opinion ...not really, no . But it IS clear about what it does.
EDIT: re-reading the feat (LINKY), which I will quote here:
As a standard action, you can use the Lunge feat to increase the reach of your melee attacks by 5 feet until the end of your turn, without suffering a penalty to your AC. You cannot use this feat if you carry a medium or heavy load.
Normal: You take a -2 penalty to your AC until your next turn when making a lunge attack.
I do have to wonder what they mean by "until the end of your turn". This just seems like extra words with no real purpose. You must use a Standard Action to use this feat, so all you have left is a single move action and maybe a swift action. It only lasts until the end of your turn, so no increased threatened range. And I don't know off the top of my head any melee attacks that use move or swift actions on your turn.
Is this where the confusion is coming from?
EDIT #2: I stamp this feat as badly written! *STAMP!* (and also clicked the FAQ button).
^_^
~P
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But Lunge doesn't say 'as a standard action make an attack with an extra 5ft. reach'. It says 'take a -2 to AC and increase your reach by 5ft'.
Monkey Lunge says 'take a standard action to remove the -2 penalty' but says nothing about making an attack with that standard action.
Edit: Yeah, pretty much.
Monkey Lunge was obviously written by someone thinking that you make an attack when you use Lunge, as shown by the reference to a 'Lunge attack'.
Hey look a FAQ candidate! I cast Raise Thread!
Here is how you can use it.
Take the feats: Lunge, Monkey Lunge, Crane Style, Crane Wing, Crane Riposte
^
FIVE Feats
Use your standard action Via Monkey Lunge, Then move five feet away, but not as a 5-Foot Step, So you can provoke AoO! if the enemy takes the bait, you riposte with an extra 5-feet of reach.
...
... ...
... ... ...
Yeah I will admit that does sound dumb in order to jump that many hoops just to make use of Monkey Lunge.
It's not even the only terrible, terrible feat from that book. Compare Elephant Stomp to...just walking up to a guy and hitting him.
Compare Elephant Stomp to...just walking up to a guy and hitting him.
Because with Elephant Stomp, instead of only knocking her prone while moving through the space (and possibly into the middle of her gang)...you get to charge up to her, knock her prone, get an attack you otherwise wouldn't get with overrun, and now she's prone so you get the +4 to hit her on top of the +2 from charging.
That's why the description says, "You deliver a crushing blow to downed enemies."
That's a pretty nice benefit...and combine that with Vicious Stomp, it gets even better.
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No, mythic lunge said nothing about letting you use lunge for AoOs. It just said you get +2 to hit on AoOs while your lunge still in effect, which is until your next turn. Lunge is not that powerful compare to enlarge person because it does not give stats boost, no boost on CMB and CMD, also you don't get to use your reach once you end your turn. Yes, Enlarge person is a spell, supposed to be more powerful for some strange reasons, maybe because it's has duration and limited use per day, still, no GM will make you fight all day long. Anyway Feat should be at less just as strong if not better than a level one spell. With spell, you get flexibility over consistency, so it should not be more powerful. However, some would say it's magic, it doesn't have to be balance. Which I disagree, but that will be on another topic...
Monkey lunge doesn't seem to function as it took no action to use lunge, so why would one use a standard action to use lunge on one attack just to keep +2AC?
Mythic Lunge works fine as if you hit, you don't lose AC against that target. And if you use mythic points, you don't lose AC against your targets regardless you hit or not. However, mythic Lunge is a waste of Mythic feat. As mythic as you are, you shouldn't take any AC penalties with lunge at all, and you should be able to use your reach for till the rest of your turn. I suppose to feel more powerful with each mythic points I take, not just the same with minor bonus that potentially worst than a normal feat.