Hi there! My name's Patrick and I'm practically brand spanking new to the tabletop scene. I need help making a character. I've made a Bard and a Druid with earth powers but I feel like they really lacked depth so I went and decided to jump off the deep end with my next guy.
The idea is essentially this: The character is paralyzed from the waste down. I would be taking a 0 or 1 for DEX and building some kind of spellcaster from it. Probably going to take a low CHA because he's old and rude as well. It fits my romantic ideals for the character.
I realize this would be incredibly unwieldy and the character would be a problem in most scenarios but I'd like feedback on ways to make it work. So far, all I've come up with is A) getting some kind of mount at character creation and staying on it forever B) Making a Small or Tiny character that rides other characters, his own familiar, or even moves himself with Mage Hand (if small enough and GM allows that kind of nonsense) C) asking the GM for a wheelchair.
The problem with options A or B is that I'll be taking a huge penalty to Ride from my low DEX. This brings up the question how important is Ride if all I'm using the mount for is transportation? If it's unessential out of combat, no biggy. If it's super important to not get knocked off by a stiff breeze, I'm out of luck.
Option C seems silly and uninventive.
Any thoughts? Does it work? Should I totally do it anyway even though it doesn't? Should I throw this character away forever and never talk about it again? Should I leave these forums and hurt myself?
There are two words for the best possible way to make a mobility-handicapped character: Synthesist Summoner. Instead of summoning a second, separate creature that you command, you fuse into your Eidolon when you summon it, effectively piloting it. Basically, it becomes your body. Unfortunately, like My Self's Oracle suggestion, it is Charisma-based, but you could just put no points in Bluff or Diplomacy!
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Roll up a Psychic from the Occult Adventures book. Buy a wand of floating disk and have your wizard buddy deploy it for your levitating wheelchair. Dig up a Patrick Stewart figurine for your miniature.
Also, thematically, keep your dex high but impose a move speed of 5. A wheelchair bound person can still have nimble fingers.
I had no idea these classes even existed! You guys clearly have made this character before. I thought I was being clever.
Thank you all so much for your advice! I know what I'm reading tonight. :)
There are two words for the best possible way to make a mobility-handicapped character: Synthesist Summoner. Instead of summoning a second, separate creature that you command, you fuse into your Eidolon when you summon it, effectively piloting it. Basically, it becomes your body. Unfortunately, like My Self's Oracle suggestion, it is Charisma-based, but you could just put no points in Bluff or Diplomacy!
OK, a cursory glance says, "The eidolon mimics all of the synthesist’s movements..." Does this mean it's legs don't move if mine don't? Or since it uses the eidolon's physical scores, it gains the ability to uh... walk.
If there's one thing that you can find in Pathfinder, it's variety. There's so much stuff in the Paizo books that you'll be hard-pressed to find something that doesn't exist, except martial-caster balance. But that aside, if it doesn't exist in the Core rulebook, it might be in one of the other rulebooks. If it's not there, it's probably in a 3rd-party handbook somewhere. If you fail to find it in a 3rd-party handbook, congratulations.
Perfect! Thank you! I was trying to find the prerequisites for Wisdom in the Flesh and Google wasn't helping.
Depends on your GM, but unless they're really out to mess you up, the Eidolon should be able to walk.
Haha. Might as well prepare for the worst, right?
Considering it isn't limited to the Humanoid base form, I'd say it'd be fine. There's nothing in the rules that indicates you couldn't use a base form with legs as a Merfolk character, either. The phrase "... as the two are now one creature." from the end of the same sentence should get you past any arguments.
Edit: You should probably also think about how your character will move about when his Eidolon isn't summoned.
Another option for the wheelchair that might be doable: Build it, or have someone build it, in game. Craft Construct and the Craft skill could both be used. If the character is something like a wizard or has access to a wizard, then you could start with an armchair, add wheels, and cast Animate Object for a self-propelling wheelchair.
It's a trait, in case you were wondering, which uses slightly different rules.
MAAAAAAN. I ain't even know'd about traits. No wonder my characters were so boring!
OK OK OK! More reading!
Buy a wand of floating disk
Build it, or have someone build it
I actually really like these wheelchair ideas. Floating Disk would be bangin if I could somehow make that permanent. I'm looking at the Permanency spells and it doesn't look like it's on that list but this feels like the right track for that option. I notice that Animate Objects CAN be made permanent but it doesn't seem like I have the ability to control it after I animate it. Is there any spell for that that I'd need to permanently cast on the wheelchair?
Edit: Stop me if I'm making things too convoluted and beyond the scope of a reasonable GM's patience.
I believe that as the creator of a construct you have control over it, but I may be wrong.
Mounted is the least convoluted way, and makes it viable at level 1.
I would agree with this. However, I admit I had my heart set on a spellcaster rather than a martial artist. Would the Wisdom in the Flesh trait work if I decided to walk away from the Sohei Monk path of enlightenment? The language in d20pfsrd is fuzzy. It just says "History, knowledge, self-perfection." I don't know what that means.
Granted, Sohei Monk seems very optimal and a really cool idea, but I simply wanted a mount to provide a means for mobility rather than make that my character's strength.
I'm a fickle lover, I know.
inb4theblake
My suggestion?
Be a ghoul-blood sorcerer. Then grab Warren Digger ASAP. Just burrow around by your companions' feet, using your arms, not your legs.
Here's a better link.
Wizards can conjure up horses using Mount. It's awesome utility and all.
Oh... Killer.
Scribbles his notes furiously.
inb4theblake
My suggestion?
Be a ghoul-blood sorcerer. Then grab Warren Digger ASAP. Just burrow around by your companions' feet, using your arms, not your legs.
1. These types? What you mean by these types?! >:(
2. This is by far the funniest idea I've seen yet. This makes me think of the Earth Glide my Druid was going to use but never did cause I don't have friends. What are the mechanics of burrowing? Can I stay underground and not be attacked by normal means? Can I still cast spells from the underground? Can I make friends down there?
Edit: 3. Will having a ghoulish bloodline affect my Alignment at all?
You can go underground and just hide down there, yes—burrow doesn't produce tunnels unless otherwise stated. That said, you can't see anything unless you breach the surface. You could probably nab Cover or Improved Cover pretty much constantly if you just stick your head and hands out to cast spells. This strategy struggles when you enter urban or "developed" areas, though (can't burrow through solid stone), so you should have a backup plan.
You could go "bargain wheelchair" and get a board with wheels on it to crawl with. I've always thought that looks a bit creepy, which might fit the concept here.
Also, pick up Summon Swarm. Make your own friends. ;)
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You are going to need to accept that some classes/archetypes/feats/traits will require a little altering of flavor.
Being an unique PC, such as this, will also require you to work with your DM.
I don't know how restrictive he/she is, but they are already allowing some custom rules, so you should not have too much trouble.
You can go underground and just hide down there, yes—burrow doesn't produce tunnels unless otherwise stated. That said, you can't see anything unless you breach the surface. You could probably nab Cover or Improved Cover pretty much constantly if you just stick your head and hands out to cast spells. This strategy struggles when you enter urban or "developed" areas, though (can't burrow through solid stone), so you should have a backup plan.
You could go "bargain wheelchair" and get a board with wheels on it to crawl with. I've always thought that looks a bit creepy, which might fit the concept here.
Also, pick up Summon Swarm. Make your own friends. ;)
All of this! YES!!! The creepy hiding! The creepy sticking out of the head! The creepy Swarm friends! Mind you, creepy was not my original intention for this handicapable character but this is gold. Pure golden gold.
Wait, Sorcerer is still CHA based, yes? That would ruin some of the aesthetic but... WHO CARES?! Everything else just falls right into place!
You are going to need to accept that some classes/archetypes/feats/traits will require a little altering of flavor.
Being an unique PC, such as this, will also require you to work with your DM.
I don't know how restrictive he/she is, but they are already allowing some custom rules, so you should not have too much trouble.
This is very fair and sound advice and I'll take it to heart...
grumble grumble grumble...
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"Sir, we're being attacked by a mage! He's summoning bugs everywhere!"
"Do you have a visual?"
"...I think it's a gopher or something?"
"Take this hammer and go. Godspeed."
OK, I'm looking again and Warren Digger says "up to a maximum of your base land speed." If I'm handicapped and can't move my legs, my base land speed is probably going to be 0ish. That will affect Warren Digger as well, right?
Well, that's gray—it depends on how your GM treats your leglessness. Some would let it act more like encumbrance, while others would be more strict.
Like BBT said, you'll have to work with the Game Master here.
Like BBT said, you'll have to work with the Game Master here.
Is your GM out to mess you up or not?
I actually haven't asked him yet. >,> He went to bed and I'm up late theory crafting. I just want to cover all my bases is all. You guys are right. I'll bother him in the morning.
Thank you all so much for your help! I really appreciate it! :) Y'all are the best.
I had an Archer Bloodrider who can't move waist down as well, and he has a Wolf for mount. The bloodrider and the wolf has been working together side by side until level 11, when the wolf is large enough to carry the bloodrider. It was very hard, but very beautiful when you have GM that can make it feel so good! The friendship and the bond was very solid and real! You should try it! But since you are going for low Cha, you might want to be Mounted fury barbarian instead.
OK! First off, I want to thank everyone for their help in making this character! You've all been a wonderful help to me! Secondly, I still haven't asked my GM. >,> Lastly, I had to give up the ideals I was shooting for with this character. I gave up 0-1 DEX because it complicates things and I want to be able to take this character on the road. I also ditched low CHA because it would be hard to maintain an Oracle which is what I decided upon.
That being said I've retooled the character with these standard character specifications: (Please correct any assumptions that are wrong with this. I'm still kind of new.)
Dual-Cursed Nature Oracle:
Nature Oracle allows me to take Nature's Whispers to replace DEX with CHA for AC and CMD. It also allows for Bonded Mount. This will be integral because of the curses I'm taking which limit my mobility. I'll be taking Extra Revelation at level 1 to get both of these bonuses. Unfortunately, a Dual-Cursed Oracle doesn't get class skills from their mystery (No Ride bonus) and get a different set of mystery spells that stop at 6, but this might work in my favor! Read on, eager beaver! Thanks to My Self for the Oracle idea!
Gnome:
Gnome's Favored Class Bonus allows me to take extra 1/2 curse levels which is important for reasons I'll describe later!
STR: 10 (-2)
DEX: 7 (Not my ideal but I'm still dumping it)
CON: 10 (+2)
INT: 10
WIS: 12
CHA: 18 (+2)
Alignment: True Neutral
Allowing Irori worship for Wisdom in the Flesh but avoiding Lawful for flavor. Unessential, but it's a Trait, so why not avoid the penalty to ride? Thanks blackbloodtroll for the idea here! Also thanks to My Self for telling me what Traits are! :X
Oracle Curses: Sedentary & Phlegmatic
This is where the core of my character comes from!
Sedentary - limits my movement rate to 5 and my Str and Dex to my Curse Level (I assume this means the stats themselves and not just the bonus. Ouch.) for skill checks, attack rolls, and saving throws BUT I get to replace DEX for CHA on my initiatives which is baller. I also get mage hand and open/close as orisons, as well as 2 rolls on Will saves 6 times per day. This ties in perfectly with the theme and I can just SAY the character is handicapped as part of the curse. This will be my curse that doesn't benefit from curse level as per Dual-Cursed Oracle rules.
Phlegmatic - is the heavy lifter here. My Initiative check result is limited to my curse level which is going to suck early on. However, I can never be flat-footed (Not entirely sure what that means, yet. Haha) and using my CHA bonus instead of my DEX means I basically always get that +5 to my AC whenever even if I'm going dead last. At curse level 10 I add my CHA bonus to my AC as long as I don't move more than 5 ft in a round (Which is always if I'm off my mount, thanks to Sedentary.)
All this means I'm basically replacing CHA for everything and I always have a +6 AC (+11 if I don't move much at curse level 10) under normal circumstances without armor. Since I'm a Gnome, I can take the favored class bonus 6 times and reach this bonus as early as level 7 with +3 curse levels. Additionally, I can take Life Leach Revelation at that level. It's the only level dependent Nature Revelation and scales off of character level, not oracle level. Seems neat. Those are the ONLY reasons I would need to stick it out that far. As a Dual-Cursed Oracle I stop getting spells at 6 anyway. This opens up the door for Multiclassing! The other 13 levels coming from the multiclass would give me all the levels I need to hit the 15 mark on curse level.
Since this is my first foray into multiclassing I have no clue where to start. Does anyone have a class in mind that would go well with the rest of this junk or would sticking it out as an Oracle benefit me more? Gnome Favored Class would lose all meaning by 15 if I do go all the way with it.
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Since you were talking about ugly, creepy characters. I'd like point out that high charisma does not mean attractive. Charisma measures strength of appearance, personality and self esteem, not attractiveness. An example of a high Charisma character is a nalfeshnee: a hideous giant fat pig demon, with a charisma of 20.
An old rude low charisma character mumbles to himself and is just ignored by everyone. An old rude high charisma character talks over everone, is so irritating and can't be ignored. You mention the first guys name and everyone says who? You mention the second guys name and everyone says oh, that guy, I hate that guy.
Since you were talking about ugly, creepy characters. I'd like point out that high charisma does not mean attractive. Charisma measures strength of appearance, personality and self esteem, not attractiveness. An example of a high Charisma character is a nalfeshnee: a hideous giant fat pig demon, with a charisma of 20.
An old rude low charisma character mumbles to himself and is just ignored by everyone. An old rude high charisma character talks over everone, is so irritating and can't be ignored. You mention the first guys name and everyone says who? You mention the second guys name and everyone says oh, that guy, I hate that guy.
This is certainly very interesting. I do love how open to interpretation everything is in this game! :) I also notice that other weird things have decent-high Charisma like a Dretch. I could see the Nalfeshnee having Charisma cause of those abs but Dretch? 11 CHA? C'mon, man. That's silly.
Check out Hags. They have CHA in the 20s.
Well, I'm convinced. If hags can do it, why can't I?
Generally we get someone who has a "brilliant idea for a handicapped character" about once or twice in your average week. And they tend to play out in one or two ways...
Yeah. I figured that might be the case. Granted this thread has kind of shifted from being about a handicapped character into ways I can get around dumping DEX as a stat, which is entirely my fault for changing the focus of my stupid character. Regardless of my exploitation, I get the impression that I'd be a burden no matter what because of my inexperience. :P
This is a problem I have in other games as well. I'll spend hours/days trying to get creative in character creation and never actually get around to playing. I'll probably stick to normal rules and standard classes from now on just to make things go smoother. Tabletop games' selling points are the role-play and interaction anyway, right? Might as well stop complicating things from the get-go and just enjoy myself.
you could make him an Aetherkineticist, they have a bunch of wild talents that wwould help, eventually you get flight and there is a low level talent that can basically be used as a constant Floating Disc spell
you could make him an Aetherkineticist, they have a bunch of wild talents that wwould help, eventually you get flight and there is a low level talent that can basically be used as a constant Floating Disc spell
I can't find what you're talking about. I hate to impose but can you provide links?