Abysium:
Abysium: useless as a weapon because it gives no benefit. However, can be use to sicken enemy if you got swallowed whole, at the cost of being sicken yourself. So only use it if you are immune to poison. Also can use it as a gift weapon, makes the receiver sicken. Adamantine:
Adamantine: ignore hardness that is less than 20 when sundering. Also a +1 enchantment bonus to hit, but it doesn't stack with your weapon enchantment bonus, I think. Alchemical Silver:
Alchemical Silver: Cheap way to bypass DR/Silver. However, -1 to damage and only works on slashing or piercing weapon. The cost of -1 damage might seems deep, but the DR you can bypass is worthwhile for its price. Blightburn:
Blightburn: Unless you are a Fire Elemental Construct or you can telepathically wield it more than 60 ft away from it, don't. Otherwise, it's the most powerful material you can have for weapon. After all, you can't DR, fire damage, nor can you SR the drain from its radiation. Blood Crystal:
Blood Crystal: +1 non-typed damage against bleeding enemies. If you have a way to make enemies bleed like bleeding critical, as well as having high crit range, I guess +1500gp is not bad for what it can do. Weapon is for killing, quicker the better. Caphorite:
Caphorite: You are only allow to make ammunition with this material, which sucks. That doesn't mean the material itself is no good. Any nonmagical light in a 10-foot radius is immediately extinguished, while spells of 2nd level or lower with the light descriptor are rendered inactive for 1d4+1 rounds. Perfect to ambush anything that require light to see. If you are Dhampir or anything similar, it doesn't hurts to keep one. As it gives you 1d4+1 round ignoring level 2 or lower light spell in a 10 ft radius. You can use it to start a fight from a distance, then quickly sneak in for melee. A rogue would like that. Cold Iron:
Cold Iron: Double the price to bypass DR/Cold Iron is not bad for starters. You don't have to deal with -1 damage like Alchemical Silver, but it does take +2000gp to enchant. However, it will not be something that you have to worry about since You only need +3 weapon to bypass DR as both Cold Iron and silver, it makes more sense to invest into a weapon with other material and just keep it as back up weapon till you get a +3 weapon. Darkwood:
Darkwood: Add 10gp for +1 to hit and half the weapon's weight? Why not? Too bad that it only works for weapon fulling made out of wood, like club or quarterstaff. Still not bad for a starter weapons. Always keep a club or a quarterstaff will only give you options, especially in low levels. Elysian Bronze:
Elysian Bronze: +1 weapon against magical beasts and monstrous humanoids for a price of 1000gp. The best part is that it stacks with weapon enchantment. So it is a must have if you know you will be fighting magical beasts and monstrous humanoids a lot. Fire-Forged Steel:
Fire-Forged Steel: +1d4 fire damage to attacks for 2 round after 'exposed' to at least 10 point of fire damage. Increase to 1d6 if you wear Fire-Forged Steel armor. So it's good if you are fighting against something that deal fire damage but also can be hurt by fire damage, like Alchemist. But really not that great. Frost-Forged Steel:
Frost-Forged Steel: Like Fire-Forged Steel, but less useful as weapon. Most things that deal cold damage would already have resistance to cold. On top of that, you will need to be in cold places to expose your weapon to enough cold damage for it to work, which all the things there would already have cold resistance from them to be there, so really no point get it. If you are crazy enough, enchant a gauntlet with +1 frost,use it to power your Frost-Forged Steel. Same could be done to Fire-Forged Steel weapon, but really no point other than for style. Glaucite:
Glaucite: Just like steel, but cost three times more and 50% heavier. Weight in pathfinder doesn't give you any benefit even if you fall onto someone. You don't deal more damage with more weight crushing a person as you would with a wine bottle. So really no point. But fluff-wise, you are showing off your god like craftsmanship if you swinging this thing around, so I doubt anyone would question your ability in crafting, or to hire someone that can craft. Greenwood:
Greenwood: Greenwood items take only one-quarter damage from fire, so that is good for wood weapon in general. The main dish of this deal is that it can heal itself. 1 hp per hour when damp and in contact with fertile soil. If it is broken, it get fixed in an hour. So as long as you give it a hour, you are good to keep fighting, don't have to spend gold to fix that weapon anymore. Like Darkwood, it only works for weapon fulling made out of wood. Horacalcum:
Horacalcum: +6000gp for a +1 to hit and a little bit more hit point on the weapon is simply not worth it. Also doesn't work as ammo. So unless you really need that +1 circumstance bonus on attack, don't waste your gold. Wish it was just as good as it would be as armor. Inubrix:
Inubrix: +5000gp, deal damage one size smaller and always treat as broken, why would people want that? Well, Brilliant Energy against iron and steel for which would cost at least 50000gp. You have to weight your options. If a rogue wants to land his sneak attacks against someone with full plate, this is your material. It will worth your gold since you will fully relying on your sneak attack dice instead of your weapon dice. Living Steel:
Living Steel: It repairs itself 2 hit points per day, or 1 hit point per day if it has the broken condition. Not as much as Greenwood, but doesn't need to do anything to it. Also can be apply to more weapons. At the cost of +500gp. Mithral:
Mithral: Great as armor, not great as weapon. Count as silver weapon to bypass DR without the -1 damage like Alchemical Silver. Mind you, though, weapon of Mithral weight have as much, and it only cost +500 gp/lb. Weight your options, I, personally, would go for Alchemical Silver as weapon over Mithral. Nexavaran Steel:
Nexavaran Steel: Cheap Cold Iron that cost only +50% of the weapon's cost, instead of double like Cold Iron. Cost +3000gp to enchant instead of +2000gp like Cold Iron. Since it's obviously for starting weapon, I would choose Nexavaran Steel over Cold Iron anytime. Noqual:
Nexavaran Steel: +1 enchantment bonus to damage against constructs and undead created by feats or spells. I'm not sure if it stacks with weapon enchantment bonus. I don't think it does, but someone can let me know otherwise. That's not all Noqual can offer though, it has +4 bonus on any saving throw made against a magical source. So if someone tries to cast break on your weapon, you are in a better place. Siccatite:
Siccatite: +1 fire or cold damage on attack, but also deal 1 of that type of damage to you each round. So it's good if you have a little bit of fire or cold resistance. Also you don't have to deal with all the trouble like Fire/Frost-Forged Steel, while you deal much less damage while taking damage at the same time. Tiefling might want those since they have the resistance. Silversheen:
Silversheen: Alchemical silver that is immune to rust? Why won't you get it? If you have the gold, I would get it over Alchemical Silver. Unlike Alchemical Silver, I would invest enchantment on Silversheen since you get immunity to rust with a cost much lower than adding Rusting weapon ability. But before you choose this as your main weapon, wait. Keep reading. Singing Steel:
Singing Steel: Bard weapon. Want an axe guitar for your bard? Here it is. If you are not Bardic performing, just don't get it. Sunsilver:
Sunsilver: So Silversheen is a good early mid level material then? What if I tell you that you can get it for cheaper? Sunsilver will do the trick. Do all the same things but only 25gp per pound on top of masterwork. Better than +750gp flat. Viridium:
Viridium: Give contract leprosy (Fortitude DC 12 negates) on hit. Give greenblood oil (Fortitude DC 13 negates) on crit. All with the cost of +200gp. But the DC is low and you will also have to make save just carrying it. So unless you have a extradimensional space or a scabbard lined with lead, just not worth it to me. Voidglass: Voidglass: +1 damage to slashing or piercing weapon, flat. It worth every piece of that 1,000 gp. As weapon goes, it might be the one you would settle with in late game as your main weapon.
What I would do would either splitting the group in two and have one group playing at each session. Or what I did was splitting the group in 3. 4 players in each group. Each group will have a leader/assistance GM. You concentrate each group, the leader tend to the players. The three group hardly every have encounters together. At most you will have two groups join force. The other group doing other things. Let the leader make other players feel special by role-playing with them. At the end of every chapter, there will be a boss fight, that's where I bring all three groups together for an epic battle. To win those battle, each group has to work out their role in such battle. Three or more objectives will be presented and each failure will make the encounter harder. Also I always make my players write me an email about that their character did in the last session and have the leaders keep track of what their team did, gain and lost. Then I read it over the week so I may prepare for the next session. We had a scouting group with druid, rogue, ranger and zen archer. Then a face group with Paladin, Cleric, wizard, bard. Also a muscle group of Bloodrager, Two handed fighter, cavalier and warpriest. Sometime they swap members, but mostly back to their own group. All I had to remember was what each groups do, what is the team goal and what the players want in each group. The muscle group just wanted to kill, so I had them fight a lot. The scout group loves exploring and puzzles, face group loves to role-play and politics. It was easy once you got them what the want and change once in awhile.
Whenever someone in the party that is more power than the others in my game. I either give other players unique items that only they can use, and those items can do things that the OP character can't do. I find fair and fun is very important for my games, so I tend to balance my games perfectly and precisely all the time. If a player has the spotlight for couple of session, I will make sure others get some. Druid feel useless, make an encounter where you need create water or you will die very soon. Always work for me, and my players always have good times.
Depends what kind of swordsmanship he is looking for. I got a character that can kill almost anything in one strike using vital strike tree, a bloodrager. He is kind of like a magical swordsman/warrior that can pick up almost anything and kill things in one strike. Only 5% chance to fail. Perfect in a duel, but suck at most other things. If you want sword to sword fight, go fighter. Want to be a mounted swordsman, Samurai. Sneaky one, rogue or slayer. Best swordsman against certain thing, Ranger. Many types of swordsmanship, he have to decide which one he wants.
Well. I think it's the GM's job to make sure the D team have enough magical items to be effective like the A team. D team is far more effective against countless encounter in one day than the A team. The more encounters in one day, the less effective the A team would be. On the other hand, D team effectiveness drop far slower than the A team. I GMed an A team once with tones of ankle bitters again, again and again through out the day. So many died because they were too reliant on the full caster. I throw the same Judgement Day to a D team, no one died at all. I even gave both team same amount of loot in gold, but A team just crumble the moment their full caster got knocked down.
Remind your GM to balance it through encounters setting. It's a good GM's job to make sure that everyone will get their chance to shine.
I think it would be pretty cool if Paizo was smart enough to allow any classes able to make use any mythic hero's paths. The idea that a swordman having god giving him the power of archmage would be awesome. It's great how Abyssal Sorcerer with Champion's path can still somewhat work, but stupid that barbarian can't take archmage when god gave him that title. Where is the joy of exploring something new and realizing a whole new version of yourself? That's why I love bloodrager, just smash and smash until he start to realize there are more he could do.
Okay, are all other players and the GM are girls or just the characters? If all players are girls expect you, you are one of the luckiest guy in gaming and you should be able to survive this if you play it right. Who knows? you might even gain something at the end. If they are all guys playing as girls, don't fall for that trap, stay away from the gross and awkward moments. Just keep you and your character's head straight, focus to the main story. Trust me, it's gross. Everytime my character cherish another female PC as a friend, that player will automatically think that my character is hitting on her. Which sucks because that's what most male players that plays female characters think about...
Problems are not on the martial. It's the spell caster can cast, powerful spells like Prismatic Spray only takes a standard action. It should take at least an full action to cast. and more powerful spell should require more casters with the same spell prepared or known and cast together at the same time to use those spells. But no, pathfinder spell is so "I kill you in one hit" and the casters like "I got this, this and that magic items so I'm tanking and can see through stealth." Very stupid, really. Stealth is a mechanic made to be the most effective way to fight against caster, but they make it so easy to see through invisibility with spells when caster can use spells to be invisible. It could have still work if there are magical items that aid stealth so even magical can't see through it, but they didn't.
Katana still somewhat need strength to use it well. I know people love katana and think it's really light because they saw it on shows how ninja use it to kill everything, but it is not very light. Swords light Kilij and Saber are easier to use in one hand, and short sword is not a bad weapon for one hand neither. At least it felt that way to me when I trained with them.
I personally found sorcerer survive better than wizard in early game mostly because I did good job tanking and killing at early. But after I no longer have to babysit them, sorcerer gone insanely powerful with their 4-5 fireball everyday and kill everything in two hits mostly. But at late game around level 15 and so on, wizard got so powerful. He will have enough resource to cast anything anytime. He can buff, summon, damage, crowd control, utility as well as killing. There are almost no stopping wizard unless we got trapped in a realm with no magic, then sorcerer will survive better since some of her power still works. I would say, it's depends how much magic resource players will get. More magic resource, better for the wizard. Less resource, sorcerer survive better.
You should try that! You have no idea how much fun it was for me to play that! My barbarian can't use full plate, druid and sorcerer wasn't interested and I don't have much AC, so I just took it and it saved my life a few times.
The lawful Paladin side of me is thinking that it's evil, therefore it shall be banish! But my rogue side is telling me, I see the potential or a streamline services for nobles and merchants to have some out-worldly entertainment. Setting up a high class lodge with bar and hot tubs. Each costumer has their own lodge with high security. We have "bar maids" to provide many different can of services, while rogue can ear drop to get political info and sell them for more money. Also, it's always easier to kill someone after they are satisfied by the services we provided.
Bard can't sneak attack tho. Yes, it's better than rogue at that, but can't sneak attack at the same time. Also no master strike.
Well, you could make the argument that if his character takes all the usual skills like perception, UMD, knowledges, diplomacy, etc, then the other characters are free to dump the crap out of intelligence and optimize damage. Heck, he could even take handle animal and control the druid summons. But, to win the thread, his character would have to be better than a jack of all trades type of skill bard. I think that might be hard because an archaeologist bard gets jack of all trades, several roguish abilities, and that luck bonus to add to everything. And as party buffing spellcaster, a party of a druid, sorcerer, and barbarian dumping intelligence and looking for a skill and support character that can disarm traps etc would probably like the bard more. How does a rogue that can take 10 in 16 different skills anytime anywhere sounds to you, my friend? Ninja can't do it because he needed his Dex and Str for damage and attack. But if I only hit to get sneak attack, I have no need for such thing. Archaeologist could properly beat me in Disable Device, but he can not do it with sleight of hand and stealth while take 10 in all them. Also he can't take 10 on escape artist to get to key and free my friends from jail. Can't take 10 means chance to roll a one. I never had to roll for those. Means zero chance to fail in all 16 skills.
And yes, Int was my main stat.This sounds like the ultimate skill monkey rogue. I am intrigued by this. Please post it. Nobody has posted one of this style yet I think. Yes, it was hard to play skill monkey for the first 10 levels. Most the time I just hide behind my barbarian and watch my sorcerer nuke things. We had a druid so it helped a lot. Most the time I just picklock and work out things that the team didn't get to. Once in awhile I come out to sneak attack, I used my diplomacy to get this level one cleric to hang around with us and he used his deathwatch to tell me where is something going to die. My sorcerer hates it but the rest of the team didn't mind because they have never seen a rogue like this before.
Belt of physical perfection +6 on a wizard? Seriously? What I said above have not even mention anything powerful magic items at all. Try take away all those items you have with no spell active? Also, how many buy point is that? I assume we going for 20 because we agreed on 20. As for build, I can't think of a good reason why I would give out my build as I do not feel any respect in here for rogue. No one even care to see that rogue doesn't beat anyone at everything, it just able to do many things that other class can do while staying in one class. Also I get the feeling everyone just attack on whoever try to point out rogue is a decent class while they don't have the gut to email customer.service@paizo.com and make a formal complain. I could be wrong, but the tone I can was very non-welcoming. So why should I give out my precious one and only rogue build I have? I only played one rogue, I don't want anyone to take his build. Not with the lack of respect here...
At level 4, you have 2d6 sneak attack. Have caster cast vanish on you, you have 4 rounds to reach there, sneak attack with poison. If no caster, you can always buy a ward and use it with Use Magic Device. With bleeding attack, it takes another 2 damage every time it begin it's turn. It needs 15 DC heal check to stop the bleeding and it is a standard action so it lose one of its turn to attack already. If it doesn't make the heal check, it will bleed 2 damage again next round. So if they try to attack instead of healing, you can just total defence and watch them bleed to death because you have decent Dex and Armor class. It should have much hit point for a level 4 encounter. So you should be fine. If it has high hit point, you have wasted it enough standard action for the team to finish it off. So don't need to bother with it. Yes, ninja is better than Rogue in Combat, but that's what they are for. They are like Assassin but more damage instead of slaying ability. Assassin are great at killing one single target once per day.
First of all, if you looking for a class with pure number, play fighter. you get the highest number in a melee fight. It's almost pointless to play Pathfinder if all you want is number, it's not a maths game. It's a game with role-play, chance, tactic, and teamwork. Number falls under tactic and chance. Second, here is the number. Rogue gets 10d6 sneak attack damage from class feature. Means you get 30 damage in average. Most casters have d6 for hit dice so they get average 60+ hp. Means your sneak attack will less than have of it's health. But here another boring maths, the rogue talent allows one to deal maximum damage with their Sneak attack. Means you deal 60 damage from sneak attack. It requires you to use a concealed weapon in order to use this talent. Rogue has 8+int for skill points, max out your Stealth, Disguise, doplomacy, bluff, Sleight of Hand, Acrobatic, Perception and Climb. Skill Mastery allow you to take 10 anytime. So if you have +5 int which you should at least that, you can have 8 skills that can take 10 anytime. Means you will have minimum 30 for the skills check without having to roll. Not rolling means no 1s, no fail. It's a big room when I climb up to the window, there is no where to hide. I got Hide in Plain Sight as my rogue talent! Don't need maths, I can 30 in your face! 30 my sleight of hand! And by this point, you should have +5-10 dex if you are truly playing a rogue. Means it's not 30, it's 35. Most caster will have more than 60 hit points you say? Yes, that's where bleeding attack comes in, it take 10 damage at the beginning of their turn before they can even cast a spell. Yes, it's less damage than ninja's one, but we are not ninja! Now you deal 70 damage, but it's not the minimum. You have your weapons of choose with Greater vital strike. Now you if you have about +2 strength, which you should have a bit more than that, you will deal minimum 75 damage. But say he still survive this, we are not done yet. You are a rogue, poison is your best friend. You should had applied some Tears of Death on your weapon before hand, so he will have to roll Fort 22DC to not get paralyzed, 24DC with Deadly Cocktai. Even if they passed the save, you still have Master Strike which is a Fort DC 20+int to not sleep, paralyzed or killed. Say he 15 fort because he is a boss, It's still hard for him to pass fort saves in a row. So Rogue should be able to win no matter what when fighting against evil wizard. You want to fight something else like a fighter or monster with lots of strength? Don't, know your role, maths said you can't. Rogue are best at single out a caster and finish him off.
First let's look at what I said, I said about stealth and combat and compare it with ninja. Rogue gets The same BAB as Ninja with the same sneak attack. No as good as ninja mechanically, but still better than anyone else, mechanically. That's what Fast Stealth. It's a must for rogue. Second, Diplomacy compare with Paladin and Bard in terms of getting information. Rogue gets Charmer and Quick Disguise. Can a Paladin come into a bar asking where the underground lord is and could get out in time with disguise after rolling an 1? Don't think so, at least Charmer allows me to twice so I don't need to disguise even if one of my die got an 1. Not to mention Coax Information. And Bard should just sit down and play his lute. Then it's fighter and Barbarian in combat. Seriously, it's like a rule of all game's nature to have brute beats specialist. You can't beat them in a fair fight, so don't bother. How else can they balance the game if rogue kills everything? If you want to fight them, hire a caster. Next would be trap. Yes, Barbarian have trap sense, but does Barbarian have enough skill points to take Disable Device? No... Last but not least, counter caster. It's your job as a specialist, to counter caster! You need to get a surprise around and deal sneak attack damage so you can hopefully kill him with one hit with vital strike. Do it before he gets his chance to cast any spell You don't need tons of BAB to hit a caster! The wizard is so old he can't dodge a tumbleweed. You are still young, you can't miss him! If you can't even get him with sneak attack, I'm afraid you shouldn't even play a rogue. But there are still back up plans because you are a rogue. Play your cards right and plan it ahead with your rogue talents. You should not lose to a caster.
Thank you for understanding my point. If you want to make the most out of rogue, you have to understand their roles. One of the rogue I saw, he did nothing in his entire campaign but stealth, get info, steal golds, buy things. Not evening fighting in combat when his team almost got killed. At the end of the campaign, he one shot the final boss who was a wizard in a tower where filled with traps and monster. He spent all his campaign to find out what he will face at the end, worked out how to draw the monster out of the tower where they will stuck at the bridge where the fighter can handle it. In conclusion, I personally thing that you need to understand a rogue as a character as well as a player in order to make it work. If your emotionally can handle this and let it gets in your way logically, you will never get to make the most out of this class effectively.
You know what rogue need the most? Is to understand their role. Instead of complaining their don't have enough BAB, maybe they should realize how OP they would be if they have that much BAB. It will mean that not only they can take out caster at ease with sneak attack, they can do that on fighter which they shouldn't. Through out the history of gaming, caster should beat fighter while they beat archer/rogue. Rogue/Ranger should beat caster. It's a balance that is always there. Rogue shouldn't be greedy and to beat monster with similar traits as a fighter. What rogue are most suitable for is being a scout of the team with lots of connections. You are not as good as Ninja in terms stealth and combat, but good enough to get the job done. You may not be as welcoming as the Paladin in Town, but guess who gets the secret connections for info when we hits town? Rogue gets it! Oh! Bard can do that too with his diplomacy and Disguise! No, go play your lute, you bard. No one gets the underground connection except for rogue! Fighter and Barbarian will beats rogue up? True, but why would a rogue fight someone who is better than them in fighting without some henchmen and traps set up? Welcome to the street, your rules don't apply here. Barbarian have trap sense? Please, Rogue can disarm it, you can't do it as well as me! Wizard coming to kill us all? Rogue will kill him one shot while his friends draw everyone's attention. Wait, it's a sorcerer? I will get my friends over there, there, there and there to kill you, how many fire balls do you have? We have many arrows. Oh, those are magical hushing arrows I got from the black market! So let's see how many of use here, at least 5 because I have "friends" for a price. Each of use shoot at least 2 arrows with a longbow, how good is your AC? Really good because you casting mage armor? Sorry to say but there are something we have called surprise round. And that's how you play a rogue, you look out for your people, they watch out for you. Give them what they want, they will get your job done. =)
So many enchantment bonus on armours and items. I'm level 8 and so far I only manage to have 460 gp ish because we are splitting all the loots and gold by 6. How will I ever be able to buy a ring or protection, selling my full-plate? Can't we just have a full plate that gives you +9. Tower shield gives you +4. + 3 AC from your dex because you have armour training. You now have 26 AC. Not very good, but with enough int, you can get Combat expertise to have -3 to hit (in which point you don't have to worry because you are a fighter) and +3 to AC. Take Dodge, that is another +1. You have 30 AC at your hand with no magic items! Awesome! Now you have good chance of not being hit by attacks while living in a world that is more real, and gold doesn't rain down every time you kill something.
Have the team in a bar. Make them tell their tales. Wait for your brother gets arrogant and ruin other player's fun. Have the world best swordsman (a level 20 fighter) over heard his arrogant talk and challenge him in duel. Give the swordsman a heavy fortified mithral full plate. Give him a +5 ring of protection, +5 Amulet of Natural Armour, ring of force shield and. Give him a +5 oversized Falchion with Improve Critical. Feat wise get improve initiative, dodge, mobility, spring attack and all other feats you would have for a fighter. Give the fighter enough stats so he will have at least 20+ saves bonus. Rule for the duel, start with stand facing each others with 25 feet in between. Who ever got the best initiative begin combat. Last man standing win. Here is what you can do with the duel. We have a PC in a place where he will die for sure and have almost no chance to fight back. So it means you have a choice here. You can kill him as punishment, or you can cut him unconscious(fake the dice rolls so he won't die). If you cut him unconscious, you can have the swordsman tell him "True power comes from one heart's desire to protect what he stands for. Love, friends, ideal. As for you, I saw nothing..." and he faint. Then have the swordsman tell his friends that "You and your friend does not have the power to challenge me. Grow your bond, understand the pain. Then you will see..." And left. Later on, you can have the swordsman to return and test if the team has been working together better. If so, have the swordsman offer them a gift as encouragement for working together. If not, cut them(not kill). As for his background story, it could be that he was trying to protect his friends and family, but he was too weak. His friends give their lives to forge him his gears with their power and their own body so he can not be beaten even by god/space/time. That is the true bond of friendship. And to bring his friends back, he will clean this world off evil with his sword while finding a way to bring his friends back. |
