I'm approaching how I participate in this playtest a bit differently than I have in the past (after not really participating in the last one). I find the playtest forums a little stressful at times, so I'm going to try and just get all my thoughts in one place for the developers to see rather than try and sway people to my viewpoint. Obviously as this is being posted so soon, this is without playtesting, and I probably won't get to playtest it as I don't get to be a player often and none of the PCs in my campaigns would really switch over to this. Anyways, this is going to be pretty in-depth and long, so it will be sectioned off into spoiler tags.
Core class and general thoughts:
And that's all! Overall, I like the class, particularly in structure. I do think it needs fine tuning in a lot of places though, especially damage, and impulse triggering reactions thing really needs to be addressed considering how many abilities are about avoiding reactions. Apologies if I missed or misunderstood anything, this was a hefty document to take in all at once. Anyway, I wish I could write a more detailed closing thoughts, but I've spent 3 hours writing this and my hand is cramping. So long, and thank you devs for the class!
From reading the Absalom book, enough people fall into the pit that a dive bar has turned it into a form of entertainment, so I'd assume that's the far more common result. Especially with the superstition that, to succeed at the test, you have to cross the pit in a unique way.
@YuriP Doesn't 25% chance of your key mechanic not working seem very high? If a Ranger had a 25% chance of their Hunt Prey not working if they had a 10 Charisma (I know this doesn't make sense, just for sake of example) I guarantee you nearly everyone on this forum would say it's suboptimal to not pump Charisma. I'm not entirely convinced that, from an optimization standpoint, the benefits you get from intelligence are worth a 20% higher chance of your shtick not working.
One small detail I love is that the Chalice works with negative healing, because that implement is perfect flavor for a dhampir/vampire character.
Also, assuming you can get an implement and its initiate feature by level 4 or 6 on a multiclassed character, what implements are the best for other classes? Mirror seems phenomenal on a Rogue, allowing you to set up sneak attack by yourself easily. Chalice and Amulet seem good for any front liners with a free hand, notably fighters who don't mind giving up a shield. Tome is a straight upgrade for any Raise a Tome Magus.
Followup idea: Magus with a sentient magic item that fakes being this artifact.
Like most ancestries we get that existed in 1st Edition, the Ghoran, Nagaji, Vanara, and Vishkanya appeared in a Bestiary! Specifically 3. So we can use them to get an idea for a few abilities they'll have access to, whether normally or from feats.
Ghoran: An aura that can make enemies flat footed and fascinated (I can see this not being a constant effect for a player), additional damage taken and harder to escape from jaw attacks, can give attackers a penalty to attacks by feigning anguish, and get detect poison, purify food and drink, and goodberry as innate spells.
Nagaji: They get a bonus to commanding reptiles, resistance to poison, and the ability to make additional saves against poison with a bonus.
Vanara: They can get a prehensile tail, get pest form (monkey only) as an innate spell, and can stand then step twice for two actions without provoking reactions.
Vishkanya: They can poison a weapon with their saliva or blood, and have a bonus to Escaping.
Out of curiosity, are there more entries for this one than the previous round? As someone who entered both, I found the first round to be a lot easier to come up with ideas for, so hearing about how many entries there are surprises me a little!
Asking for one of my players. He's playing a way of the vanguard gunslinger and while it's going pretty well (particularly with a houserule I'm testing) but an issue he's having is that unconscious allies tend to be pretty close to the enemy that downed them, making it risky to shoot without increasing the dying condition of said ally. Is there anything feat, item, etc. that can make the radius smaller, similar to bomber alchemists with splash?
How viable would it be for Paizo to support a digital-only fork of the rules that wouldn't have print limitations and support continuous balance patches?
You know, if there was an app that had a character builder and you could purchase the books with it, I'd pay for that in a heartbeat. More convenient errata would be the cherry on top but not that important.
That would be Pathfinder Nexus, a service Paizo announced a little while ago but hasn't released yet. Some of the people working on it are people who developed D&D Beyond.
I Ate Your Dice wrote:
Paizo isn't your friend, you should be holding their feet to the fire to make the best game possible and not accepting second-rate work because they're running on a tight budget and working within an outdated business model.
Paizo is a very small company whose workers are already very crunched. I hold no love for any company, but I'm capable of caring for the well being of people who aren't my friends. Especially when they're people who browse and post on these forums, interacting with the community.
And speaking as a League of Legends fan, I would absolutely take fewer balance patches if it meant the workers got treated better.
Andrew 58 wrote:
Fantasy Grounds has all the Adventure Paths up to date and the vast majority of the Rule Books (guns & gears, Secrets of Magic etc). Sure, you have to pay as I'm sure you will with Foundry add-ons, after all somebody put time and effort into the coding and should be paid. While the adventure paths are insanely cheap if you own the pdf's, the rule sets can get a little pricey but you only need to buy ones you actually use. I for one am very sad Paizo decided to go with Foundry, but I can see why when the Pathfinder Community there is much bigger than Fantasy Grounds or Roll20 compared to 5th Ed. Hopefully their Paizo communities will grow, especially on Fantasy Grounds which I use and (tongue in cheek) Paizo will see the error of their ways. (Ps The pdf creator doesn't count as it's all done by a fan, not up to date and could stop at any time)
Running PF2 on Foundry is hundreds of dollars cheaper than running it on Fantasy Grounds or Roll20. I paid I think $20 for Foundry itself (got it on sale a while back) and $25 for the first Outlaws of Alkenstar module, and am ready to play. That's less than I would have paid for just the core rules on Fantasy Grounds.
Going off of what SuperBidi said, archetypes to enhance the rest of the schools of magic would be great. We've got Hallowed Necromancer and Reanimator for Necromancy (Undead Master also helps the fantasy but isn't restricted to casters) but not much for specialists of other schools. We have the Captivator for illusion/enchantment, but that's more for nonmagical classes looking to dabble.
And similarly to the examples SuperBidi gave for all the necromancy themed subclasses, the same can be said for other schools. Enchantment wizards, fey and nymph sorcerers, fey summoners, and bards as a whole could do well with an enchantment-enhancing archetype for example.
Back in January, I believe. He's now the Director of Game Design for the Battlezoo line of products at Roll for Combat. So still making PF2 stuff, just as 3rd party.
Kineticists aren’t casting spells, so I don’t see them having one; you might as well as what Tradition the more magical-seeming Monk stances are.
Some of them do, actually. Even disregarding the focus spell stances Alchemic_Genius mentioned, Stoked Flame and Reflecting Ripple stances also have either divine or occult.
That said, I think Kineticists will be tied to either primal or arcane. If the abilities of elementals like Magma Dragons have the primal trait on any of their abilities, I don't see why our PC channelers of the planes wouldn't also have a tradition.
I've been vocal on the forums before about how I'm less than satisfied with the Witch class. Because of that, I've had the need to rework the class rattling around in my head for a while (no promises it gets done if the workload exceeds what I'm capable of, but I wanted to try).
But I wanted to get people's opinions on what they see as the biggest weaknesses of the Witch so I know where to focus my efforts. The main goals I already have are rebalancing and improving hex cantrips, as well as adding more of them, along with finding a way to improve the familiar. A smaller thing I'm looking at is feat support for rituals. I'm looking to keep them a full spellcaster, but if necessary for the power budget I would consider making them a 2 slot per level caster like the upcoming psychic.
So, to reiterate the title, what would you want from a Witch rework?
The only classes I feel are underbalanced are Witch and Alchemist (the latter, at least, the ways people want to play it are underpowered). If anything, I've thought more frequently that Fighter and Bard are a little overpowered rather than classes like Summoner or Magus are underpowered.
Quick Edit: To clarify, I'm only talking about fully released classes. Post-CRB playtest classes have almost universally been underpowered.
The Raven Black wrote:
Just realized that dragons with a burst breath will hurt when using the Dragon Breath feat since they are not usually immune to their own damage IIRC.
The burst can be placed wherever within 30 feet of you. So while it is the only breath you can hurt yourself with, you don't have to.
Thanks for the tips! Between this and the reddit thread I made, the general consensus seems to be that the party needs someone who can tank hits while also supplying a good amount of damage as well. So I'm between two similar concepts right now, a fighter with champion archetype or a paladin, both taking shield ally. Probably strength based with a warhammer, asp coil, or flickmace (depending how much cheese I'm craving), but maybe a dex based one with a dagger, starknife, or dagger pistol. I do like the bard ideas, so if I go full champion I might multiclass into it.
I have a life oracle in Extinction Curse that's very prone to almost dying. So I figure I should have a backup in mind in case things go south. The party is currently level 7 with free archetype. The party is:
Myself, a human aasimar life oracle with medic archetype.
I'm down to play almost anything, but I think I'd like to avoid having healing as my main shtick again.