Generic / Classless / Archetype content you'd like to see?

[Squiggit]

We've had threads about class paths people want to see and new classes people want to see. Curious what people want from regular archetypes and classless options. Whether it's a new idea or poaching something from an existing class.

... One thought I'd had is that it'd be neat to have a class-agnostic option to improve simple weapons. Deadly Simplicity, Crossbow Ace, Deific Weapon, etc all support the idea of bumping up simple weapons a bit so they're competitive (or at least, closer to competitive). I remember a developer once talking about a hypothetical rogue feat that made daggers stronger (when describing the difference between simple/martial weapon balancing) and it would be neat to actually have that option... but more than that, because sometimes you want to be a swashbuckler with a dagger too, or a fighter with a club, or whatever.

Could be done with a multiple-class feat or an archetype that lets you lean in and power up your weird weapon choice even more, idk.

[SuperBidi]

Classless options to specialize in a form of magic. Things like the Hallowed Necromancer. I think there's really a lack of magic specialization and I feel that making it class-specific would be unfair to the other classes. I mean, Necromancers can be (Necromancy School) Wizards, (Undead) Sorcerers, Clerics (of a deity with the Death domain), (Bone) Oracles, (Undead) Summoners, etc... So it should be a classless archetype.

[WatersLethe]

A Powerful Ancestries book with ancestry based class feat powered archetypes. Dragons are already done with Battlezoo, but I'd love to see something like Giants, Angels, Demons, Fey, Dogs, Drow, and maybe even weird things like Oozes and Aberrations.

[Gaulin]

I would love some archetypes built around battle forms or morph style spells/abilities that aren't tied to Druid or casters. Could even make it more general and make an archetype similar to captivate, but for transmutation, but give it something similar to wildshape/form control/other specific Druid feats that allow it to specialize in shapshifting.

Honestly I would love if we got captivator style archetypes for multiple schools, focusing on certain types of magic.

[Lollerabe]

Seconded Bidis suggestion. I have a thing for lightning, thunder, tempest ish magic and I currently feel I can only get that vibe from the storm druid, and then I'm 'forced' to play a druid.

I'd be hyped if there were more avenues to bring specific concepts like that to life.

Like I mentioned in the APG2 thread I made: a archetype that rewards not only switchhitting but actually using different weapons throughout a combat. I feel like I have very little mechanical incentive to mix up my weapon loadout so to speak. Even switchhitting vermintide style (if you know that game) is hard to emulate.

A archetype that rewards being low on hp would also be cool. Both martial and caster. Bloodmagic and berserker I guess would be the most common iteration of it.
Preferably with a mechanic that allows you to trade hp for various effects. But it tends to be a balance nightmare to get right. As the power of it can vary alot depending on party comp

[The Raven Black]

Lollerabe wrote:

A archetype that rewards being low on hp would also be cool. Both martial and caster. Bloodmagic and berserker I guess would be the most common iteration of it.

Preferably with a mechanic that allows you to trade hp for various effects. But it tends to be a balance nightmare to get right. As the power of it can vary alot depending on party comp

I would use the Doomed condition for this.

For example,

Magic-exertion : increase your Doomed condition by 1 to get an additional Focus point.

Body-exertion : increase your Doomed condition by 1 to ignore the drawbacks of a mutagen you ingest.

With some mechanic to decrease your Doomed condition by more than 1 each full rest.

[Salamileg]

Going off of what SuperBidi said, archetypes to enhance the rest of the schools of magic would be great. We've got Hallowed Necromancer and Reanimator for Necromancy (Undead Master also helps the fantasy but isn't restricted to casters) but not much for specialists of other schools. We have the Captivator for illusion/enchantment, but that's more for nonmagical classes looking to dabble.

And similarly to the examples SuperBidi gave for all the necromancy themed subclasses, the same can be said for other schools. Enchantment wizards, fey and nymph sorcerers, fey summoners, and bards as a whole could do well with an enchantment-enhancing archetype for example.

[Ganigumo]

A Metamagic archetype that gives access to metamagic feats a class might not normally have, in addition to a few brand new ones, or improvements to existing ones. Including possibly being able to combine two (i.e Reach + widen) in a limited manner (1/day? focus spell?)

An archetype that lets you double down on ancestry shenanigans, improving options granted by your ancestry (including innate spellcasting), and possibly giving a way to get extra ancestry feats.

An archetype that lets you develop a signature move, a bit similar to a martial version of spell trickster, but a bit more flexible since it would focus on strikes and skill checks.

[nephandys]

Salamileg wrote:

Going off of what SuperBidi said, archetypes to enhance the rest of the schools of magic would be great. We've got Hallowed Necromancer and Reanimator for Necromancy (Undead Master also helps the fantasy but isn't restricted to casters) but not much for specialists of other schools. We have the Captivator for illusion/enchantment, but that's more for nonmagical classes looking to dabble.

And similarly to the examples SuperBidi gave for all the necromancy themed subclasses, the same can be said for other schools. Enchantment wizards, fey and nymph sorcerers, fey summoners, and bards as a whole could do well with an enchantment-enhancing archetype for example.

I'd love to be able to play an actual Illusionist. You can make it happen in the system in various ways but none of them seem to live up to my vision.

[AnimatedPaper]

I’d love to see some archetypes that “fill in the grid” so to speak, such as a prepared Occult caster and Spontaneous Arcane, that more or less work as if they were MC, but no base class (if that makes sense at all).

I can certainly see how and why the designers aren’t eager to design a full class to cover such spreads, but Archetypes have a shorter reach and design scope, and this could be a way to pick up some more obscure PF1 class archetypes like the Cultist (prepared Occult) and Warlock (spontaneous Arcane, perhaps Bound spont Arcane) for the vigilante.

[Perpdepog]

I'd like to see some more feats like that universal fey-themed feat that ancestries could pick up. That's a cool idea, like heritages but taken further along in your ancestry's path to represent suddenly awakening power, or an abrupt transformation not extreme enough for a class feat.

I'd also like an ancestry/general/whatever feat to grant someone the Advanced Undead Benefits. They don't seem as extreme a step, to my mind, as becoming an undead in the first place, though I suppose the archetype feats that grant those benefits haven't really got much else going for them aside from that.

I'd also like more encounter-based actions for skill feats to grant. Not necessarily combat, but things that make skills feel snappier and can let Int skills in particular come into their own as a viable use of investment in all levels of play.

[Temperans]

More archetypes that fill put the various spellcasting niches.

More ranged combat archetypes (ex: thrown weapons).

More archetypes gish archetypes that casters can use well.

[Lollerabe]

Oh I forgot. Some focus spell like abilities for martials. Anything with a bit more oomph or wackiness than what martials currently can do, that wouldn't be balanced around being able to spam it every round

[The Raven Black]

I think Magus MC Dedication gives this.

[WWHsmackdown]

I'll keep banging the drum for school archetypes bc I think it's obvious and a great way to provide balanced specialization (If the designers aren't interested and message me that I'll pipe down and accept it). Reanimator proves to me that there's design space for specialized casting archetypes. I'm looking for an evocationist archetype that can exclude pcs from AOEs and add on more persistent damage. An abjurer that gains temp hp or temp AC when they use defensive spells maybe later being able to transfer some to comrades. A conjurer that mostly cribs off reanimator but is more general with no flashy capstone to balance it. Transmuter that can pick from a small table of temp affects when they use spells of the school and feats to affect that table usage like the wellspring archetype. Diviner archetype with feats about manipulating rolls. Illusionist I can't think of anything off the top of my head but others have touched on it. Just general casting archetypes that would compare to the stuff we have now (reanimator, shadow mage, elementalist) the way Sentinel would compare to staff acrobat or animal tamer: general and broadly useful as opposed very niche specializing.

[Lollerabe]

The Raven Black wrote:

I think Magus MC Dedication gives this.

Sure but that's A. One archetype and B. Magical.

I was thinking more in line off non magical but balanced around 1/encounter as a baseline

[Rude_]

100% more school archetypes

More archetypes like the playable undead options, oozemorph and pact bound initiate.

You could create characters transformed by demonic pacts, fey pacts, mutants, technological grafting, dark tapestry experiments, divine powers, expand fleshwarping,

possibilities are endless with taking a character and changing them with these type of archetypes

[rainzax]

More support for APG archetypes.

Even if that means simply expanding the List of Feats poached from other sources.

Maybe a benchmark of "Dedication plus 8 Feats" as a minimum - including both Class Feats and Skill Feats to round out those lists.

=)

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Squiggit wrote:

We've had threads about class paths people want to see and new classes people want to see. Curious what people want from regular archetypes and classless options. Whether it's a new idea or poaching something from an existing class.

... One thought I'd had is that it'd be neat to have a class-agnostic option to improve simple weapons. Deadly Simplicity, Crossbow Ace, Deific Weapon, etc all support the idea of bumping up simple weapons a bit so they're competitive (or at least, closer to competitive). I remember a developer once talking about a hypothetical rogue feat that made daggers stronger (when describing the difference between simple/martial weapon balancing) and it would be neat to actually have that option... but more than that, because sometimes you want to be a swashbuckler with a dagger too, or a fighter with a club, or whatever.

Could be done with a multiple-class feat or an archetype that lets you lean in and power up your weird weapon choice even more, idk.

A character that uses only the bare essentials to fight (and isn't a Monk). That would be a cool archetype to have, but I'm not sure what you could call it. Scrapper Dedication?

As others are saying, a class-less spellcasting dedication would be pretty awesome. Arcanist, Occultist, Diviner, Primalist, etc. Each with their own specialty feat sets/abilities.

[Perpdepog]

Isn't the Martial Artist already that?

[Dryades]

Lollerabe wrote:

I have a thing for lightning, thunder, tempest ish magic and I currently feel I can only get that vibe from the storm druid, and then I'm 'forced' to play a druid.

Wow, this is me. The druid being the only real choice has always felt constricting. I had some hope with the tempest oracle but I’m also not into giving up the primal spell list.

[keftiu]

Give me any and all setting-specific, niche, flavorful weird stuff as archetypes, please. I love the weird ones we pretty consistently get in AP backmatter articles. One for being a Harrower would be a lot of fun!

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Perpdepog wrote:

Isn't the Martial Artist already that?

Martial Artist is restricted to Unarmed Strikes, this archetype would be for all Simple weapons, not just Unarmed Strikes.

[Albatoonoe]

After playing a bunch of Elden Ring, I could go for some grafting. Just attaching new limbs. Kill a dragon? Attach its head to your arm.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

keftiu wrote:

Give me any and all setting-specific, niche, flavorful weird stuff as archetypes, please. I love the weird ones we pretty consistently get in AP backmatter articles. One for being a Harrower would be a lot of fun!

Yes, we need the Harrower back YESTERDAY!

[Zabraxis]

WatersLethe wrote:

A Powerful Ancestries book with ancestry based class feat powered archetypes. Dragons are already done with Battlezoo, but I'd love to see something like Giants, Angels, Demons, Fey, Dogs, Drow, and maybe even weird things like Oozes and Aberrations.

I like the idea of racial exemplar archetypes for all races that allows for more racial feats (with some kind of limiter.) They all have cool/flavorful racial feats that get passed over for the "best" @ level and are rarely picked @ later levels.

As far as focusing on schools magic, I'd love to see all magic schools get some version of the Captivator (minus the level wonkyness.) I like the slightly faster/higher MC casting progression in exchange for a more limited focus.

I'm also a fan of more party synergy archetypes like Overwatch and Sniping Duo.

[Squiggit]

Battlezoo dragons have fake armor feats as level 1 ancestry feats and it makes me kind of want to see more generic options for that officially too.

Like, strong character who isn't heavily armored is a pretty standard fantasy archetype, enough so that I don't think it really needs to be a special thing for one type of barbarian and one type of monk only. If you keep the stats normalized, the actual mechanical benefits aren't super dramatic either.

[Mythraine]

I'd love to see support rules for flying cavalry. Using the mount rules for Hippgryphs, Griffons, Manticores, Pegasi, Rocs - all of that.

Also a way to add the mount special ability to any mount.

[Albatoonoe]

More Elden Ring/souls stuff. Oversized weapons and shields. A massive sword with immense power and some drawbacks could be a lot of fun.

This is something inspired by the recent thread about henchmen/humanoid minions. Rather than delving into the precarious morality of sapient minions, how about magical doubles/clones. That has existed as an archetype for a long time in a lot of genres.

[Perpdepog]

If you want an oversized weapon, we do already have one example in the legendary Ridill, though at level 20 it's not exactly something you can be swinging around all game. Still a cool as heck weapon though.

[nick1wasd]

I want some form of Crafting overhaul/expansion that includes making modifications to what you're making at the cost of increasing the difficulty/cost. Also new weapon traits, and ways of using weapons "wrong" to decent/new effect (hitting with the spine of the katana, poking someone with a halberd's handle.)

[cavernshark]

nick1wasd wrote:

I want some form of Crafting overhaul/expansion that includes making modifications to what you're making at the cost of increasing the difficulty/cost. Also new weapon traits, and ways of using weapons "wrong" to decent/new effect (hitting with the spine of the katana, poking someone with a halberd's handle.)

Pretty sure that's the Inventor. It may not be how you'd prefer it was implemented but you just described the Inventor Skill feat and weapon innovations.