APG 2 - what would you want in it ?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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Minor start rant:

Lately I've seen alot of: 'what new stuff would you want to see in X book?" Threads.
I've come to realize that if I were to decide I would want an APG2 more than any other book, stuffed with more options for the current material we got.
It might be because I played pf1 prior to alot of the less conventional classes were released (inquisitor,shifter etc) and stopped before they were, but I have no emotional ties to them. Therefore they aren't necessary or even needed from my point of view.
I however respect that most of you don't necessarily share that viewpoint and I can't knock Paizo for prioritizing whatever makes them the most money.

I would love to hear what you guys would want from the APG2 quite specifically.
Here's my wishlist:

- more skill feats. I currently feel like certain skills (athletics, intimidation, medicine) have really strong in and outta combat feat support, but others are really lacking.

1. Crafting: I'd love if feats like the inventors Tamper feat could become a crafting feat. The gnome feat that allows you to add weapon traits also seem ripe for expansion as a craft feat. In general feats that could make the crafter feel useful both at a moment's notice, and when resting by buffing the party's gear or something akin to it.

2. Diplomacy and survival: Both of these skills feel like they could support team oriented feats akin to sniping duo. Diplomacy could have warlord-ish effects while survival could have monster hunter - ish effects. Just a thought

3. Arcane, religion and other mental stat feats: No idea currently, but they could use some love.

- Cleric doctrine's with more identity. Personally I feel that 5e nailed the cleric alot more than pf2. The domains felt thematic and they played different. I would happy to see more options to make both the doctrine's and domains feel and play different.

1. New spells that would be available only to their respective doctrine's. By making new unique spells, it would be possible to beef up the identity of the doctrine's while being both backwards compatible and without eating into the classes power budget to do so.

2. Feats and focus spells unique to doctrine's - like the suggestion above but with a pricetag so to speak (class feats). I'd love to be able to lean more into the warrior aspect of the warrior priest through my feat choices as an example.

- Better feat support for classes / subclasses / play styles within a class.

1. Certain subclasses like the fury instinct looks like it could use some love. While adding feats to 'fix' such an issue, is inherently clunky (as they risk becoming mandatory) it's imo much better than not attempting to fix it at all.
Being able to buff through new feats, seems like a strength of pf2e imo, and should be utilized more.

2. Same as above but for stuff like melee investigator etc (see the recent thread by CaffeinatedNinja for a more in depth discussion)

- New archetypes. While this is very broad I would like to see more archetypes that helped bring concepts to life that classes can't.

1. A weapon master archetype.
One that was rewarded for using multiple different weapons, and being able to wield advanced weapons without an issue. I imagine quick draw would be the archetype free feat, and then maybe something that rewarded using multiple different weapons in the same round. Feats like dual handed assault would also be fitting

- Class archetypes. I really don't have any good suggestions currently, but it seems like another great way to add even further customization to all the existing material.

Anyway sorry for the wall of text and mediocre formatting (writing from a phone).
What would you want to see ? If you can, try to be specific :)


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Skill feats are the main part of the system I don't feel has been expanded upon properly since release. The magic skills in particular don't have enough feats unique to them, I think.

Other than that, I'm always craving class archetypes.


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Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

One thing I'm just going to say for those who may not know, it's super unlikely they're going to make another APG type book. Paizo has been pretty open about not wanting to do that anymore, instead they're focusing on theme books. There's a lot of reasons, but mainly it's so people new to the game can sort of cherry pick what they want a little easier instead of feeling like they have to buy a ton of books.

That being said, I'm all for random wishlisting. I'll just put down a bunch of random things in an unorganized way because that's how I do.

- A legendary nature feat that allows any animal companion to gain the mount special feature. It really shouldn't be so impossible to ride on a flying bird, at least let us do it in later levels.

- very unspecific, but more in combat things to do with int based skills. I feel like charisma got so many good things in the transition to 2e - great social skills, cool combat actions, innate spell stat, and the classes with charisma as their main stat are very strong. Intelligence needs something else fun, maybe even just some feats to make recall knowledge better (can keep doing it on a failure, lower penalties for rarity, etc)

- generic ancestry feats for either a small race to start medium or a medium race to start small.

- high level general feats to stop aging. Just for flavor, no mechanical value.

- tattoos as weapon runes.

- gloomblade or some other weapon creation type archetype. Soulforger is neat but very niche and has too much tacked on to it. Just want to summon weapons. We really need more ways to auto scale weapons somehow (I know the arguments for 'but economy') for builds to be able to do stuff like throwing a bunch of daggers or shuriken or just having a large selection of weapons. Maybe combine this with tattoos somehow, like you pay for striking/potency runes, tattoo them on your body, then weapons you create have those runes.

- A cantrip master archetype, sacrificing spell slots to be able to power up cantrips by way of metamagics, sort of like how kineticist infusions work.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Gaulin's right, but I feel like an APG 2 is what Pathfinder needs more than anything right now.

There is, imo, a pretty big issue with existing material not getting further support.

Post-core ancestries tend to have very few feats, sometimes only a couple choices at any given level tier, making them feel narrowly defined and making versatile heritages even more appealing than normal.

A lot of archetypes, especially from some of those early lost omen books, are very thin and could use some beefing out, even if it's just giving them Additional Feats poached from other classes, since some of these archetypes were printed before that was really a thing.

Classes in general haven't changed or evolved much since they were printed. Since the APG came out, the investigator for instance has gotten one single feat: a rare, campaign specific capstone, and no other direct support. Most other classes are in a similar boat. Druids and Monks got a couple feats in SoM... but that's about it.

Feel like there are a number of players in the various circles I run in who have been waiting for just one more thing to make their character come together, but they're increasingly starting to feel like Paizo isn't interested in publishing that kind of material and I'm worried at some point they'll just lose interest and start washing out of the system.


@Squiggit yeah I can definitely see that being a real issue. Especially if you have played regularly since release.
It’s a non issue at my table as we simply don’t got enough sessions under our belt to feel the issue yet. But I personally feel a lot of classes need like 20% more, in order for me to find them enjoyable at least.


Inquisitor and Kineticist, a Bloodrager class archetype, a Shifter class archetype, a smattering of new options for existing classes, some skill feats.


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Keftiu Ive gathered from my lurking that the inquisitor is pretty important to you.

Where are you on the new books with new classes Vs expanding current content scale ?
Would you consider inquisitor, shifter and bloodrager more important than more options for the existing classes ? I know it isn't necessarily either or, but just for the sake of conversation

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