What Magical Tradition will the Kineticist have in P2?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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It wouldn't fit with the kineticist lore and would influence the talents and infusions as has been the case with everg "pick-a-list" class.


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Not saying I need it, but there's nothing wrong with the lore of a class changing a little between editions.


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Temperans wrote:
It wouldn't fit with the kineticist lore and would influence the talents and infusions as has been the case with everg "pick-a-list" class.

I'm gonna say it. I straight-up do not care about existing PF1 kineticist lore. I'm here for the crunch of it, and I'm happy to see whatever lore they want to put on the thing. If for some reason I think the existing lore is terrible (unlikely as that might be) I can write my own if I have to.

As far as influencing talents and infusions... mostly, ti goes the other way around. If they come up with cool ways to make the talents and infusions work as primal, then make it primal. If they find cool ways to get it to work as occult, then make ti occult... and so on. If they come up with cool and flavorful things to do with three of the four traditions, then just let us have those three. The "what tradition are you" should be something that gets derived from the "how do we make this cool", rather than any sort of limitation on how to do it.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
nick1wasd wrote:
I think straight Primal fits the best for an element tossing madman in the vein of AtlA and X-Men/Hero Aca, but Arcane could work, maybe... My main issue with that is the little treatises we got in SoM describing how the different traditions feel to their casters, and Primal lines up best with the flavor of the Kine, so I'm a little hesitant to pick something else. Primal also has the Vital essence, which is what the Positive and Negative planes are in sync with, which we know the 1e Kine got in the form of Wood and Void element options. Primal just has the biggest overlap in the mechanical underpinnings we have going from 1e to 2e in regards to how magic actually works.

I’ve read the elevator pitch in OA multiple times, and I keep coming back to the conclusion that it is describing what in PF2 is an Arcane class. Especially now that Occult has taken up the story-based sympathetic magic, the OA class description just sounds Arcane to me (not sure how that impression squares with psychics, I will also acknowledge). If they drew power on the elements directly, I’d feel different, but since they filter it through the ethereal plans that feels a step removed from primal.

I fully acknowledge that the RP most people reach for when they’re thinking up kineticists would be better served by the primal tradition, but that just makes me want to see the Arcane elements doubled down on even more, with feats or class paths that open up the possibilities of using other traditions, like we saw on the Thaum.

That’s not to say any, or no option at all (perhaps they can act like a Thaumaturge with a class power and class dc score), would be a deal breaker for me. I’m merely saying what would interest me most.


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Temperans wrote:
Please no pick-a-list Kineticist.

What about "pick a thing, and the thing you pick determines your tradition"? Kineticists should not have spells, or spell slots anyway so there is no need to list anything.


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I'd like that. Tying elements to traditions rather than tying the class to a tradition makes more sense to me. That was basically what the archetypes for kineticist did in 1E anyhow, giving you the ability to channel from aligned planes and so on eventually.


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Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Pick-a-Tradition is getting tiresome. If every new class is going to do it, it makes the earlier classes seem less unique.

And yes, the developers do seem to balance things against the ability to PiT. I'd rather have a single-tradition strong kineticist with cool options than the lie of versatility.


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Ravingdork wrote:

Pick-a-Tradition is getting tiresome. If every new class is going to do it, it makes the earlier classes seem less unique.

And yes, the developers do seem to balance things against the ability to PiT. I'd rather have a single-tradition strong kineticist with cool options than the lie of versatility.

That's only been applicable to classes which are using that tradition's suite of spells though. Kineticists didn't do that, and assuming that holds true then the "lie of versatility" will be a non-issue.


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Ravingdork wrote:
Pick-a-Tradition is getting tiresome. If every new class is going to do it, it makes the earlier classes seem less unique.

I'd just do it like the monk, where you just declare whether your stuff is one of two things, then it never matters.

Do it exactly like the monk a la: "Decide whether your kinetic blasts and wild talents are arcane or primal". Thematically the Kineticist has a lot in common with the monk, so having them symmetrically cover the full range of traditions (even though it never ever matters) works for me.


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Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Pick-a-Tradition is getting tiresome. If every new class is going to do it, it makes the earlier classes seem less unique.

I'd just do it like the monk, where you just declare whether your stuff is one of two things, then it never matters.

Do it exactly like the monk a la: "Decide whether your kinetic blasts and wild talents are arcane or primal". Thematically the Kineticist has a lot in common with the monk, so having them symmetrically cover the full range of traditions (even though it never ever matters) works for me.

I think that would likely be okay with me as well.


Given that the monk style maintains consistent power compared to pick-a-list that would be 100x better if they do give them multiple.

The monk styly is less pick-a-list and more "you need to have something so what's it going to be?".

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* P.S. Another reason why it should be Occult and not Primal is something I mentioned in the "Kineticist on the Horizon" thread. The power of kineticist comes from manipulating the ethereal plane which is all about souls, combined with elements from other planes; Not the opposite.

The closest thing to a proper thing looking at the essences would be Spirit + Matter, as discussed when essences were first revealed. But we know that wont happen sadly. So in that case the best compromises are either: Kineticists are all arcane, or they can pick between occult and primal.

Liberty's Edge

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You realize that Monks are occult or divine, ie dealing with the Spiritual essence, while hitting you with fists and kicks, right ?

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