Meet the Iconics: Mios

Wednesday, June 8th, 2022

Growing up in Caliphas, in the haunted nation of Ustalav, Mios Uriev learned that monsters can look like anyone, but they normally look like the rich.

Mios was born poor in the city of dark excess. In a place where disappearances were the norm, their parents raised them with a strict but protective hand, shutting the door to their meager home firmly at night. Mios took solace from this grim upbringing in knowledge, diving into whatever books they could get their hands on and seeking tales wherever they could find them, resulting in an eclectic education. One month, they memorized religious hymns from Andoran; another, they’d rush to finish their errands so they could see a presentation on medical practices from Qadira. It didn’t matter the subject, so long as they could dig into the knowledge the world of books presented to them. They had few friends, but that mattered little in the face of the company their learning provided.

Grown into a young adult full of studied confidence, Mios found work as a night coach driver—though they aspired to something loftier, opportunities were limited for a young worker of their means. Night after night, through pounding rain and choking fog, they drove their charges from grand homes to lavish parties and more often than not, their patrons gave Mios the chills. Perhaps it was the unnatural pallor of their faces or the glint of too-sharp teeth, but Mios became increasingly convinced that a number of Caliphas’s elite were monsters. And one night, their fears were proven true.

Mios, the iconic thaumaturge. Art by Wayne Reynolds.
Mios, the iconic thaumaturge. Dressed is a large jacket covered in charms and talismans, holding a lantern.

That night, under the light of the full moon, Mios drove a young noble to a banquet at a secluded mansion. The man seemed agitated, restless, fidgeting and twitching and pulling the blinds tight. A shiver laced through Mios’s stomach as the carriage began to shake. An enormous roar split through the night as the foolish noble tore through his finery, the transformation taking him. Scrambling, Mios pulled the cart to the side of the darkened road, grabbing their lantern.

The wolf leaped forward with dripping maw, tearing at Mios’s leg with yellowed canines and letting out a sickening crunch as tooth hit bone. With a swing of their arm, Mios shone their lantern in the creature’s face, shouting to drive him off. The beast recoiled, almost seeming to remember himself for a moment, the lantern’s light illuminating his feral form. The creature dove from the carriage and scrambled into the night, leaving Mios bleeding... but alive.

A werewolf bite, they thought grimly as they drove home, barely hanging onto consciousness. Countless cures written in dusty tomes or purported by local folk healers, but none proven, none reliable. No hope, most might think. But Mios believed in knowledge, believed in the power of the written word and the passed-down tale. Over the next month, they nursed their near-shattered leg, which would heal but never be quite the same, always requiring a brace to hold it steady. While their body recovered, they stretched their mind, reading every text they could get their hands on, apocryphal or not, and trying every reported cure. Herbal remedies, blood sacrifices of small animals, and stranger, they tried method after method, hoping one would stick. When the full moon next came, they drove into the woods and waited in terror for what all said was inevitable. The moon rose painfully slow, each moment an agonizing wait for the pain to begin, for the cracking of bones and sprouting of fur and claw. But the night waxed on, and the moon reached its anticlimactic zenith. Mios sat in silence. Could it be possible? Had they found a cure among the dozens of methods they tried? It appeared so. Which cure had actually worked, they’d never know, but their dedication and desperation had paid off. They had fought off the bite.

After their miraculous escape from this dark fate, Mios’s everyday life, ferrying others back and forth along the same wagon tracks, seemed devoid of meaning. They had discovered an incredible truth: fates weren’t sealed. Their learning, their dedication, it made them more than just a driver. To continue with their previous life felt like a waste of the gift they were just beginning to realize they possessed. Because the world was full of dark things, the powerful preying on the weak. Their lantern, which once shone the way through darkened streets, could shine a light on creatures of the night and bring hope to those in need.

And so, Mios set forth on a life of adventure, knowledge as their weapon. The unknown, the dark, all could be illuminated by the right source: their wit, their determination, and their lantern’s unfailing light.

Avi Kool
Lead Editor

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Paizo Employee Software Architect

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Opsylum wrote:
Edit: I think Sibelius kinda ninja'd me here. Ah well, I'll post this anyway.

I'm glad you did - you've sold this class to me in an incredibly raw and evocative way.

Also, I think the Geralt reference may actually hit a little closer to home than you intended. Geralt is knowledgeable from his wide breadth of experience, he's observant and insightful, and he's obviously a strong and capable warrior. But time and time again he achieves victory by *understanding* who his enemy is fundamentally as a person, often intuitively, and then creating a scenario in which their failure is inevitable, or else their vulnerability to his more mundane "chop its head off" techniques is assured.

I see a *lot* of that in Mios' backstory, and their approach to overcoming their adversary in this tale.

Great write-up!

Radiant Oath

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DeciusNero wrote:

AWOOOO

werewolves of Caliphas!

Ah, Warren Zevon...his music and the sheer talent he showed performing it never fails to put a smile on my face, even as I'm aware how much of rotten person he could be...


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Just want to say, for those maybe having trouble grasping the Thaumaturge, one way I tried to explain it to a friend was to first separate the idea that knowledge is inherently tied to intelligence. Knowledge is "the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject" or the "facts, information, or skills acquired through experience or education". One need not be smart to know something. Intelligence is the measure of one's ability to "learn and reason" as well as "analyze situations and understand patterns"; basically ones ability to process the information they are receiving. That certainly helps, but is hardly a requirement to gaining knowledge.

In fact, I'd argue that before anything, communication is the most important facet of gaining knowledge. Whether you gain it through formal learning, reading it in a book, or the folktales of your culture; all these rely on some form of verbal or written communication. That isn't to say that Charisma is suddenly the most important ability for that, but rather that it is just as important to the acquisition of knowledge as the other two mental abilities are.

In Mios' case here, they need not be smart to read a book, nor do they need to necessarily understand the knowledge they are taking in. They only need to possess the ability to apply it. And if a book, a legends, a folktale, or rumor says that drinking a cup of three parts vegetable oil and two parts firebrand whiskey, muddle with wolfbane, raw sugar, and the eye of a night hag is the cure to lycanthropy; I'd hardly suggest it takes much of an IQ to do that. Ah, but don't forget the orange and parsley garnish. That is very important.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I see the Thaumaturge as a version of Bard that dropped the occult spellcasting and performance and amped up their knowledge of particular subjects from Bardic Lore (creatures, curses and haunts - becoming Esoteric Lore) and their martial capabilities. They are still a pseudo-magical jack-of-all-trades like the more traditional Bard but takes it from a different angle: less artsy and more lore-centric. This is my internal reasoning for "why charisma?". I think Mios's bio here reflects that.

Paizo Employee Designer

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aobst128 wrote:
Very cool lantern design. Since the recall knowledge implement is likely gonna be the tome this time, I'm looking forward to seeing what the lantern can do differently in the release. A focus on perception boosts including initiative rolls would be nice.

Keep a look out for their iconic encounter fiction coming out later for a more in-depth look at what Mios looks like in action ^_^


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Fantastic write up Avi, I'm absolutely loving all the rich vibrant details you included!

My new headcannon is now Mios and various other iconics (Seelah? Alain?) out adventuring together and staying up around the campfire debating various styles of governments, or free will vs predestination.

Paizo Employee Customer Service Representative

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Deleted some posts that were off topic. This is not a thread for discussion of class politics in fiction, in either direction. Responding to a comment is STILL a comment. Paizo has clarified their stance on the matter.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Brian Bauman wrote:

I'm glad you did - you've sold this class to me in an incredibly raw and evocative way.

Also, I think the Geralt reference may actually hit a little closer to home than you intended. Geralt is knowledgeable from his wide breadth of experience, he's observant and insightful, and he's obviously a strong and capable warrior. But time and time again he achieves victory by *understanding* who his enemy is fundamentally as a person, often intuitively, and then creating a scenario in which their failure is inevitable, or else their vulnerability to his more mundane "chop its head off" techniques is assured.

I see a *lot* of that in Mios' backstory, and their approach to overcoming their adversary in this tale.

Great write-up!

Thanks Brian! Pathfinder really has been in top form recently; it's hard not to be inspired by all the incredible stories ya'll keep putting out. It's when I have these ideas of what something should look like, and then I'm caught off guard by a completely different take on that thing I'd never considered before — that evolves my opinion of it — these are my favorite experiences with the brand. Those unexpected surprises. Thaumaturge has definitely been one of those, and I think you're right — the class captures characters like Geralt of Rivia here in ways even more fundamentally than I'd even considered. That guy was definitely using charisma checks on monsters at least as often as he was recalling trivia. One of the many features about his character that makes him resonate: he empathizes with and tries to understand everyone on a humane level, despite the outwardly violent nature of his work. It's that very insight that is often the key to him pulling through, at the end of the day.

That fantasy in the class — seeing through your enemy to their core and dealing with that person — is a really fun fantasy phenomenally executed in the way the class progresses. Learning new ways of looking at the world through the lenses of implements of power, feats aimed at being resourceful and making the most out of the tools you have on you (like gaming religious symbols of opposing gods together to overwhelm a faithful with the ensuing discordant energies) — even the kind of company you're implied to keep, making bargains with fey and devils and psychopomps alike to further your own objectives, recognizing in each a potential ally or someone to hear out — where other adventurers might only see a threat or a liability. The class has so many stories that practically write themself, and I especially enjoy the focus on making resourceful use of magical gadgetry to solve puzzles and create hidden opportunities (very Link from Legend of Zelda-esque in that sense). I'd been aching for a utility-focused class that dabbles with magic without wielding magical talent itself, and this class has (if the playtest is any indication) given me everything I'd hoped for. Dark Archive can't arrive soon enough.


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James Case wrote:
While of course not every story will be for everyone, our iconics are the result of many hours of writing and polishing, and I think it's safe to say that all of our authors care very deeply about telling interesting stories (or they wouldn't take on this work!).

In general, the Meet the Iconics articles are incredibly well written and one of the things I most enjoy about the Paizo blog.

James Case wrote:
Regarding "getting politics": Remember that all stories reflect a worldview of some kind--as someone said earlier in the conversation, even classics like "Girl goes to party with help of fairy godmother", "Farmboy pulls sword out of rock", or "Girl steals father's armor to save family/nation" inherently make statements about the society that they take place in. As we produce more and more iconics, they will necessarily have more and more worldviews--if every iconic was a bookish scholar or kick down the door party machine, things would get old quickly.

Quite right. Fair point.

Grand Archive

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Tbh, I think it would be fair to read this story as if it happened *before* Mios got their class. Basically playing as a LVL 0 character. It’s the backstory, the one you give the Game Master before the game start. So it would make sense that this story doesn’t actually show how the class play. The “encounter” fiction they will release later will probably be the one that you want to understand the class. Th8s one is to understand the character and why they chose their class.


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...reading Opsylum's posts makes me feel like I just passed a Psychology of Mythology course...

...something I was not expecting to do today...


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Elfteiroh wrote:
Tbh, I think it would be fair to read this story as if it happened *before* Mios got their class. Basically playing as a LVL 0 character. It’s the backstory, the one you give the Game Master before the game start. So it would make sense that this story doesn’t actually show how the class play. The “encounter” fiction they will release later will probably be the one that you want to understand the class. Th8s one is to understand the character and why they chose their class.

I read it as initially level 0, passing to level 1 at the end . . . which actually makes sense for the origin story of an Iconic.

By the way . . . Pssst -- Actually DON'T eat the rich. It's very bad for your cholesterol, and gives you yet another route of exposure to the Lycanthropy and Vampirism prions . . . .

Radiant Oath

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Ly'ualdre wrote:

Just want to say, for those maybe having trouble grasping the Thaumaturge, one way I tried to explain it to a friend was to first separate the idea that knowledge is inherently tied to intelligence. Knowledge is "the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject" or the "facts, information, or skills acquired through experience or education". One need not be smart to know something. Intelligence is the measure of one's ability to "learn and reason" as well as "analyze situations and understand patterns"; basically ones ability to process the information they are receiving. That certainly helps, but is hardly a requirement to gaining knowledge.

In fact, I'd argue that before anything, communication is the most important facet of gaining knowledge. Whether you gain it through formal learning, reading it in a book, or the folktales of your culture; all these rely on some form of verbal or written communication. That isn't to say that Charisma is suddenly the most important ability for that, but rather that it is just as important to the acquisition of knowledge as the other two mental abilities are.

In Mios' case here, they need not be smart to read a book, nor do they need to necessarily understand the knowledge they are taking in. They only need to possess the ability to apply it. And if a book, a legends, a folktale, or rumor says that drinking a cup of three parts vegetable oil and two parts firebrand whiskey, muddle with wolfbane, raw sugar, and the eye of a night hag is the cure to lycanthropy; I'd hardly suggest it takes much of an IQ to do that. Ah, but don't forget the orange and parsley garnish. That is very important.

Yeah, that's very much in line with how occult magic in general was described in Secrets of Magic!

The occult works on stories, the connections between them, and how they resonate with the wills and expectations of mortals. It's why you get tentacles when a ritual goes wrong: because you'd heard stories of tentacles and failed occult rituals, meaning you were EXPECTING tentacles to happen if the rite wasn't preformed properly. The actual rite itself may not have mentioned tentacles at all, but because you'd primed yourself for that beforehand, the occult energies resonated with your expectations and so Cthulhu shows up and is like "You rang?"

With Mios, their confidence in the research they'd done and the cures they'd attempted coupled with their own personal fortitude saw them through. They believed these cures had power regardless of how they actually functioned, and that they could beat the lycanthropy, that their story would have a happy ending, and the occult resonated with Mios' will to make it so.

Radiant Oath

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Opsylum wrote:
Brian Bauman wrote:

I'm glad you did - you've sold this class to me in an incredibly raw and evocative way.

Also, I think the Geralt reference may actually hit a little closer to home than you intended. Geralt is knowledgeable from his wide breadth of experience, he's observant and insightful, and he's obviously a strong and capable warrior. But time and time again he achieves victory by *understanding* who his enemy is fundamentally as a person, often intuitively, and then creating a scenario in which their failure is inevitable, or else their vulnerability to his more mundane "chop its head off" techniques is assured.

I see a *lot* of that in Mios' backstory, and their approach to overcoming their adversary in this tale.

Great write-up!

Thanks Brian! Pathfinder really has been in top form recently; it's hard not to be inspired by all the incredible stories ya'll keep putting out. It's when I have these ideas of what something should look like, and then I'm caught off guard by a completely different take on that thing I'd never considered before — that evolves my opinion of it — these are my favorite experiences with the brand. Those unexpected surprises. Thaumaturge has definitely been one of those, and I think you're right — the class captures characters like Geralt of Rivia here in ways even more fundamentally than I'd even considered. That guy was definitely using charisma checks on monsters at least as often as he was recalling trivia. One of the many features about his character that makes him resonate: he empathizes with and tries to understand everyone on a humane level, despite the outwardly violent nature of his work. It's that very insight that is often the key to him pulling through, at the end of the day.

That fantasy in the class — seeing through your enemy to their core and dealing with that person — is a really fun fantasy phenomenally executed in the way the class progresses. Learning new ways of looking at the world through the lenses of implements of power, feats...

I really...REALLY feel like I'm gonna like this class! :D

Liberty's Edge

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I enjoyed the biggest part of this story, especially both kinds of representation. I almost felt like Mios would shout their own lantern oath in the end.

Ever since the playtest, I read the Thaumaturge's reliance on CHA as forcing their opponents to acknowledge the damage / weakness that the Thaumaturge imposed on them, no matter that knowledge or wisdom would say otherwise.

So, yes I felt using several times the rich = bad trope was a bit easy. But it was also helpful in showing what I see as the greatest appeal in the Thaumaturge class. The supposedly low one (whether by money, status, supernatural power, whatever) telling the "high" one: " You don't get to ignore ME.".

This defiance so bold and strong that it gets you real power is what is IMO at the heart of both the story and the class.

Kudos and many thanks, Avi. You've done very well and have given us a great gift.

Radiant Oath

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The Raven Black wrote:

I enjoyed the biggest part of this story, especially both kinds of representation. I almost felt like Mios would shout their own lantern oath in the end.

Ever since the playtest, I read the Thaumaturge's reliance on CHA as forcing their opponents to acknowledge the damage / weakness that the Thaumaturge imposed on them, no matter that knowledge or wisdom would say otherwise.

So, yes I felt using several times the rich = bad trope was a bit easy. But it was also helpful in showing what I see as the greatest appeal in the Thaumaturge class. The supposedly low one (whether by money, status, supernatural power, whatever) telling the "high" one: " You don't get to ignore ME.".

This defiance so bold and strong that it gets you real power is what is IMO at the heart of both the story and the class.

Kudos and many thanks, Avi. You've done very well and have given us a great gift.

I absolutely ADORE this! August can't come fast enough!

Paizo Employee Software Architect

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The Raven Black wrote:

The supposedly low one (whether by money, status, supernatural power, whatever) telling the "high" one: " You don't get to ignore ME.".

This defiance so bold and strong that it gets you real power is what is IMO at the heart of both the story and the class.

You gave me chills, Raven Black.

"Wait! I have one final question: What can change the nature of a man?"

THE QUESTION IS MEANINGLESS.

"Nonetheless, before there is an ending between us, I will hear your answer."

THEN THIS IS MY ANSWER, AND YOU ARE THE PROOF. NOTHING CAN CHANGE THE NATURE OF A MAN.

"If there is anything I have learned in my travels across the Planes, it is that many things may change the nature of a man. Whether regret, or love, or revenge or fear - whatever you believe can change the nature of a man, can."

THEN YOU LEARNED A FALSE LESSON, BROKEN ONE.

"Have I? I've seen belief move cities, make men stave off death, and turn an evil's hag heart half-circle. This entire Fortress has been constructed from belief. Belief damned a woman, whose heart clung to the hope that another loved her when he did not. Once, it made a man seek immortality and achieve it. And it has made a posturing spirit think it is something more than a part of me."

YOUR DEFIANCE WILL HURT YOU MORE THAN ANY WOUND IN THIS PLACE. BELIEF CANNOT CHANGE THE NATURE OF A MAN.

"I think it can. I think belief could even unmake me, if I believed it enough."

Source:
Final conversation between The Nameless One and the Transcendent One, Planescape: Torment, 1999


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Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

{. . .}

The occult works on stories, the connections between them, and how they resonate with the wills and expectations of mortals. It's why you get tentacles when a ritual goes wrong: because you'd heard stories of tentacles and failed occult rituals, meaning you were EXPECTING tentacles to happen if the rite wasn't preformed properly. The actual rite itself may not have mentioned tentacles at all, but because you'd primed yourself for that beforehand, the occult energies resonated with your expectations and so Cthulhu shows up and is like "You rang?"
{. . .}

Okay, now this MUST be something that happens in a future Iconic Encounters.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Terrific story! I’m very much looking forward to their Iconic Encounter.

FWIW, I’m playing a playtest Thaumaturge in Strength of Thousands campaign now, pending the release of the final class. It’s early yet (still level 1), but so far, I’m really enjoying the class.


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Dare I ask what happens to previous iconic characters? P2E shuffles old and new characters, including new iconics with new ancestries.

Did the iconic occultist die off-session, or is it simply Paizo introducing a brand-new party member? The same can be applied to the new Alchemist, Summoner, Gunslinger and Oracle ^^;

I'm aware that the Thaumatheurge is a new class, but... it is somewhat similar to the Occultist :P


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
JiCi wrote:

Dare I ask what happens to previous iconic characters? P2E shuffles old and new characters, including new iconics with new ancestries.

Did the iconic occultist die off-session, or is it simply Paizo introducing a brand-new party member? The same can be applied to the new Alchemist, Summoner, Gunslinger and Oracle ^^;

I'm aware that the Thaumatheurge is a new class, but... it is somewhat similar to the Occultist :P

There's a Pathfinder comic that features both the PF1E and PF2E Alchemists. And the other Iconics are seen as either other builds on the same class page, or are seen throughout the art pieces in various Lost Omens books.

Also, to be clear, the Thaumaturge is not the Occultist. It's heavily influenced by the Occultist, but it's been stated it is not out-right replacing it.


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JiCi wrote:

Dare I ask what happens to previous iconic characters? P2E shuffles old and new characters, including new iconics with new ancestries.

Did the iconic occultist die off-session, or is it simply Paizo introducing a brand-new party member? The same can be applied to the new Alchemist, Summoner, Gunslinger and Oracle ^^;

I'm aware that the Thaumatheurge is a new class, but... it is somewhat similar to the Occultist :P

I'm pretty sure alahazra is pictured in one of the recommended builds for oracle in the apg, so old iconics still exist but sometimes the devs wanna create someone new (if only bc making something new is more fun).


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Rivani, the previous psychic (whom I love, she's absolutely the prettiest iconic) was shown in one of the art pieces for Dark Archive.

Shadow Lodge

I absolutely love this write-up. I can't wait to see more of their story!


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I'm coming around to cha as a main stat if only bc the thaumaturge in my head is definitely a lot more superstitious than the intelligence classes. If an intelligence class asked the thaum why something works they would probably respond "idk, but the lore says it works like that....stop asking questions, you're ruining the mystique!!"


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WWHsmackdown wrote:
I'm coming around to cha as a main stat if only bc the thaumaturge in my head is definitely a lot more superstitious than the intelligence classes. If an intelligence class asked the thaum why something works they would probably respond "idk, but the lore says it works like that....stop asking questions, you're ruining the mystique!!"

Yeah, I like that. Whereas INT-based individuals tend to troubleshoot problems through a deductive approach, applying vast knowledge and reasoning capabilities with a top-down approach — and WIS characters use a blend of deduction and induction, making keen observations and applying experiential knowledge about how something works to make reliable guesswork about it — CHA's process is mostly inductive. It takes a stab at a problem, figures out what works and what doesn't, and does more of the thing that works. Hence Mios's "I am going to try every herbal remedy, apocryphal text, and blood sacrifice I know of until I find something that works." Eventually, they'll piece together a strong, intuitive reconstruction of the thing they're studying and master it as effectively as anyone, through the sheer conviction and fearless dedication of their own force of personality.

There's a certain je ne sais quoi about the unique way thaumaturges approach learning and applying knowledge, that's pretty different from everyone else. They have this insatiable need to experiment and approach every problem from every angle, connecting the unfamiliar to the familiar. "Everything connects...I just need to figure out how it connects." They see in everything a story they can relate to, and exploit. It's a genius that can easily look like madness, maybe even indistinguishable from it. Or...superstitious mystique.


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Opsylum wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
I'm coming around to cha as a main stat if only bc the thaumaturge in my head is definitely a lot more superstitious than the intelligence classes. If an intelligence class asked the thaum why something works they would probably respond "idk, but the lore says it works like that....stop asking questions, you're ruining the mystique!!"

Yeah, I like that. Whereas INT-based individuals tend to troubleshoot problems through a deductive approach, applying vast knowledge and reasoning capabilities with a top-down approach — and WIS characters use a blend of deduction and induction, making keen observations and applying experiential knowledge about how something works to make reliable guesswork about it — CHA's process is mostly inductive. It takes a stab at a problem, figures out what works and what doesn't, and does more of the thing that works. Hence Mios's "I am going to try every herbal remedy, apocryphal text, and blood sacrifice I know of until I find something that works." Eventually, they'll piece together a strong, intuitive reconstruction of the thing they're studying and master it as effectively as anyone, through the sheer conviction and fearless dedication of their own force of personality.

There's a certain je ne sais quoi about the unique way thaumaturges approach learning and applying knowledge, that's pretty different from everyone else. They have this insatiable need to experiment and approach every problem from every angle, connecting the unfamiliar to the familiar. "Everything connects...I just need to figure out how it connects." They see in everything a story they can relate to, and exploit. It's a genius that can easily look like madness, maybe even indistinguishable from it. Or...superstitious mystique.

Yup, my thaumaturge would definitely throw salt over their shoulder after spilling it....to kill the bad luck snail


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I just wish I could stop calling them Milos. My brain is convinced there’s an L in the middle there.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I keep getting headflashes back to that drink mix MiO, as advertised by Sassy Gay Friend. Completely forgot about him up until this iconic was named, lol. Thanks for the memory trip Paizo!


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keftiu wrote:
I just wish I could stop calling them Milos. My brain is convinced there’s an L in the middle there.

Same here. Doesn't help that I once GMed for an Ustalavic PC named Milos.


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"Milos" was their origina name but as a precaution against ycanthropy, they had to remove all 's from their vocabuary.


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aobst128 wrote:
"Milos" was their origina name but as a precaution against ycanthropy, they had to remove all 's from their vocabuary.

XD

Liberty's Edge

aobst128 wrote:
"Milos" was their origina name but as a precaution against ycanthropy, they had to remove all 's from their vocabuary.

And it did work after a''.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Interesting story, but this still seems like a very difficult class to roleplay. Love the artwork.


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RicoDetroit wrote:
Interesting story, but this still seems like a very difficult class to roleplay. Love the artwork.

At the root of it all, I think Thaumaturge is a martial class that uses magical trinkets to create or exploit weaknesses and solve riddles in the world around them. It can get as much or as little philosophical from there as you want. CHA could have as easily been INT or WIS roleplaying-wise, and there would have been interesting ways to explore what that means for the class on a technical level (although I think CHA provides slightly more narrative flexibility as a default). Just because the flavor of a mechanic is written one way, doesn't mean you necessarily have to play it that way. Although this might be more appropriate in the other thread, here's some ideas off the top of my head for character concepts that I think would work best as a Thaumaturge – aside from the aforementioned 'Geralt of Rivia' monster slayer armed with encyclopedic knowledge and empathetic intuition.

Battle Therapist (CHA focus, Amulet):
You'd rather make your enemy stand down through diplomacy rather than force. You diagnose your opponent throughout battle, delivering striking words sharper than your own weapon. With each strike and each insight, your foe loses their passion to fight, their will failing them as much from your own penetrating rhetoric as from your martial display. Your implements are meant more to stall and to protect than inflict bodily harm, as your words wear your foe down – and you seek to understand them as much through empathy as anything else. (ex: Steven Universe)

Eldritch Conspiracist (INT focus, Tome):
Everything connects. You have seen beyond the pale, thin curtain that separates this quaint world from the real one just beyond, and now you know...reality is just a point of view. Monsters and gods and titans move lives and wars and tragedies like chess pieces across a board, and you struggle to understand the scope of it all. Though others might call you mad, your ability to twist facts to your liking and poke holes in any argument routinely leaves your foes less sure of their own reality than even you...and vulnerable. Your implements empower you to capture knowledge (at what cost?) and use it how you please, and your power to recall knowledge is tainted with eldritch influence you barely control. (ex: Jonathan Sims, The Magnus Archives)

Magical Gadgeteer (DEX/WIS focus, Wand):
Though you may be small, and of meager strength by yourself, you face down dragons and giants and demons and walk away the victor, for you know your own strength, your capabilities, and how to adapt them for any situation. Some people describe you as a hoarder, a walking pawn shop of obscure and strange trinkets, but you know the value of everything you carry, and they have each made the difference between life and death more than once. Your implements are designed to solve puzzles, throw your foes off balance, and give you a flexible toolbox of options for approaching any problem, and you are proficient at improvising and coming up with inventive solutions on the fly, even when your memory fails you. (ex: Link, The Legend of Zelda)

Mystical Storyteller (CHA focus, Lantern):
You see yourself as part of a grand story, or seek to tell one. Everyone and everything has a role to play, and with your keen insights and implements of power, you are prepared to offer the counsel or the strength needed to accomplish the appointed task. You see the invisible threads that bind the world together, and you deftly pluck and pull at each one in service to the grand design. Your implements are designed to shed light and reveal deep truths that would elude others, and your efforts to divine knowledge from the world around you is aided by your conviction that you must succeed. (ex: Gandalf the Grey, The Lord of the Rings)

Spirit Shepherd (WIS focus, Chalice):
Though mortal creatures may fixate on the material world they remain attached to, your natural habitat dwells within the realm of the supernatural. You see the effects of the spirit world upon everyday life around you, and vice versa. Your interactions with people often leave them with the distinct impression that you were speaking to their very soul itself, so profound were your insights into their being. When faced with a foe of greater strength, you may take to consuming their very essence, turning their own spiritual might against them when their flesh betrays no other weakness. Your implements calm your body and still your mind even in the thick of battle, and your preternatural intuition augments your insight when you seek to recall knowledge about your foes. (ex: Sam Winchester, Supernatural)

Trophy Hunter (DEX/STR focus, Weapon):
A severed head, a shattered shield, a broken tusk – these remnants from your fallen foes are more than a prize – they are a symbol. A symbol which evokes your terrible presence and draws power from the fear and panic you inspire in your wake. With each enemy you slay, you take some part of them with you, gaining strength from their tools and tactics and turning these implements – once set against you – into yet another tribute to your indomitable might. Your implements are chosen to ravage your foes and evoke fear across the battlefield, and when you study your enemy in combat, you learn much from them as they shudder and exert themselves against your overwhelming presence. (ex: Kratos, God of War)


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I think the basic reason that the Thaumaturge is not Int-based is that we already have *two* Int Martials (Investigator and Inventor), and the two most charismatic martials (Champion and Swashbuckler) don't have it as a key ability.

In a vacuum the Thaumaturge could have easily been Int-based, but they've been to that well before and we don't have another class that covers "magical BS artist" (like Hellblazer went hundreds of issues before clearly determining whether John Constantine actually had any magical talent at all.)

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