Treasure vault sneak peaks.

[Lollerabe]

Might have misread then. I thought you guys meant you could lift of traits with the oil. As in "oil of fatal d12".

As is it's pretty niche and might as well be called "hammer oil".

Just apply hammer spec to every weapon when you can afford the oil often enough, and retrain your wep group to hammer as a fighter I guess.

Would've been cool if you could store traits for a limited amunt of time, or the like.

[Gisher]

graystone wrote:

aobst128 wrote:

I wonder why all the reprints from Gods and Magic.

Some where pure updates without having to errata the source material. For instance, Chakri lost uncommon and the reload is altered. Butterfly sword gained concealable [not gods and magic, I know]. Bolas are common now. Now the polytool or bladed scarf? Not seeing any change there: I'm guessing it's so people can 'one stop shop' for weapons outside the core.

They can't make up their minds on bolas. :)

In the 1st printing of the APG they were common. Then the 2nd printing of the APG changed them to uncommon. Now in the Treasure Vault they are common again. Weird.

[roquepo]

Honestly, I'm a bit lost with the Chakri. In the AP cases, I understand that we are supposed to use the ones from this book, as they are just "official-er" releases. In the case of weapons from old books, I undertand that we are supposed to use the ones from this book as well, as they are all minor changes, sort of an update.

The Chakri came out a few months ago and this and the previous version are 2 completely different weapons. The only thing they have in common is that they are both thrown weapons. Different proficiency, diferent traits, different damage die, different everything. Are we supposed to be using only one of the 2? Is the old one "obsolete"? Do we have to live in an universe with the "Chakri" and the "Cooler Chakri"?

[graystone]

roquepo wrote:

Honestly, I'm a bit lost with the Chakri. In the AP cases, I understand that we are supposed to use the ones from this book, as they are just "official-er" releases. In the case of weapons from old books, I undertand that we are supposed to use the ones from this book as well, as they are all minor changes, sort of an update.

The Chakri came out a few months ago and this and the previous version are 2 completely different weapons. The only thing they have in common is that they are both thrown weapons. Different proficiency, diferent traits, different damage die, different everything. Are we supposed to be using only one of the 2? Is the old one "obsolete"? Do we have to live in an universe with the "Chakri" and the "Cooler Chakri"?

My guess is that they made the boomerang and had 1 single weapon with the new returning trait and someone thought Chakri could fit the bill for another while also making it more usable to the general public [maybe they are a Xena fan]. I'd say it'd a do over and the 1st one will be sent out to pasture.

[aobst128]

Impossible lands chakri were pretty much just better shurikens. I guess they wanted them to be more distinct and on the same level. It's a bit odd though with such a quick rewrite.

[graystone]

aobst128 wrote:

Impossible lands chakri were pretty much just better shurikens. I guess they wanted them to be more distinct and on the same level. It's a bit odd though with such a quick rewrite.

Well, Impossible lands chakri where pretty much just making a shuriken an advanced weapon [trade monk for deadly and +20' range]: at least now, they are usable to more people and fill a bit of a different niche than the old version [more damage, returning and martial].

[aobst128]

graystone wrote:

aobst128 wrote:

Impossible lands chakri were pretty much just better shurikens. I guess they wanted them to be more distinct and on the same level. It's a bit odd though with such a quick rewrite.

Well, Impossible lands chakri where pretty much just making a shuriken an advanced weapon [trade monk for deadly and +20' range]: at least now, they are usable to more people and fill a bit of a different niche than the old version [more damage, returning and martial].

Right. I kinda liked them before a bit better. I'm not sure how I feel about how their reload 0 only lasts for 4 hits.

[graystone]

aobst128 wrote:

Right. I kinda liked them before a bit better. I'm not sure how I feel about how their reload 0 only lasts for 4 hits.

Myself, I love the move away from advanced: I couldn't justify using feats to get an advanced Chakri [1d4 S, Range 30' Reload 0, Agile, Deadly d8, Thrown] when I can pick up a comp shortbow that's martial [1d6 P, Range 60' Reload 0, Deadly d10, Propulsive]. Now a martial Chakri Chakri [1d6 S, Range 40' Reload 0 [for 4 worn], recovery, Thrown] is a much better comparison to the shortbow and it needs no hoops to use. The only issue will be the conditional worn reload and things like returning [like will it count as reload 0 in hand after it returns as opposed to it being on your wrist].

[aobst128]

graystone wrote:

aobst128 wrote:

Right. I kinda liked them before a bit better. I'm not sure how I feel about how their reload 0 only lasts for 4 hits.

Myself, I love the move away from advanced: I couldn't justify using feats to get an advanced Chakri [1d4 S, Range 30' Reload 0, Agile, Deadly d8, Thrown] when I can pick up a comp shortbow that's martial [1d6 P, Range 60' Reload 0, Deadly d10, Propulsive]. Now a martial Chakri Chakri [1d6 S, Range 40' Reload 0 [for 4 worn], recovery, Thrown] is a much better comparison to the shortbow and it needs no hoops to use. The only issue will be the conditional worn reload and things like returning [like will it count as reload 0 in hand after it returns as opposed to it being on your wrist].

Reload 0 wouldn't really do anything if it's already in your hand. It's "loaded" as far as I can tell. Like the difference between having an arrow nocked and not nocked.

[graystone]

aobst128 wrote:

Reload 0 wouldn't really do anything if it's already in your hand. It's "loaded" as far as I can tell. Like the difference between having an arrow nocked and not nocked.

The issue is abilities that require you use a reload 0 weapon like hunted shot: I know a held shuriken is a reload weapon but can't say with confidence a held chakri is. If it's only reload 0 on he wrist and no in the hand, then if you use hunted shot with a returning chakri, you can only make the first attack in it as 1/2 way through it changes from reload 0 to reload -.

[shroudb]

graystone wrote:

aobst128 wrote:

Reload 0 wouldn't really do anything if it's already in your hand. It's "loaded" as far as I can tell. Like the difference between having an arrow nocked and not nocked.

The issue is abilities that require you use a reload 0 weapon like hunted shot: I know a held shuriken is a reload weapon but can't say with confidence a held chakri is. If it's only reload 0 on he wrist and no in the hand, then if you use hunted shot with a returning chakri, you can only make the first attack in it as 1/2 way through it changes from reload 0 to reload -.

I don't think it qualifies as written for hunted shot.

It is printed as a - weapon that simply changes to 0 when on a wrist. So it shouldn't count imo.

Best case for hunted shot with thrown should still be probably the bandolier with shurikens.

[aobst128]

Yeah, a circumstantial reload 0 would be weird with some abilities. I guess they would only work for as long as you've got the chakri to count for reload 0. Same with shurikens.

[graystone]

shroudb wrote:

I don't think it qualifies as written for hunted shot.

It 100% qualifies if you wear 2 chakri: the only issue is with 1 and returning.

shroudb wrote:

It is printed as a - weapon that simply changes to 0 when on a wrist. So it shouldn't count imo.

That's the question though: is it any different from a shuriken when held and not drawn? Does it matter if it was reload 0 when it started the acivity? What's the difference between a reload 0 and - once return kicks in?

shroudb wrote:

Best case for hunted shot with thrown should still be probably the bandolier with shurikens.

That would be he easiest way, yes. It doesn't make he questions go away though.

[shroudb]

graystone wrote:

shroudb wrote:

I don't think it qualifies as written for hunted shot.

It 100% qualifies if you wear 2 chakri: the only issue is with 1 and returning.

shroudb wrote:

It is printed as a - weapon that simply changes to 0 when on a wrist. So it shouldn't count imo.

That's the question though: is it any different from a shuriken when held and not drawn? Does it matter if it was reload 0 when it started the acivity? What's the difference between a reload 0 and - once return kicks in?

shroudb wrote:

Best case for hunted shot with thrown should still be probably the bandolier with shurikens.

That would be he easiest way, yes. It doesn't make he questions go away though.

Yeah, I was talking about the whole shebang (returning weapon coming back to your hand)

If it's just 2 on the wrists I agree that it counts.

As for what the difference is, when held it's no different than say, a dagger.

It has a very specific clause that when that is active (on the wrists) it changes the base properties of the weapon.
When that clause is not fulfilled, it reverts to base stats.

So as soon as it is not on the wrists it is a reload - weapon, similar to a handaxe, a dagger, a javelin, and etc. And none of those qualify.

[aobst128]

I miss the days of the daikyu having reload -

Keeping a bandolier of those bad boys to chuck 80 feet was fun. :P

[graystone]

aobst128 wrote:

I miss the days of the daikyu having reload -

Keeping a bandolier of those bad boys to chuck 80 feet was fun. :P

Too bad only 1 of those fits in the magic bandolier [it's 2 bulk]. ;)

[aobst128]

We're all caught up on all the good stuff but what about some stuff that seems a little lackluster? The harpoon for instance. Kinda lame.

[Squiggit]

aobst128 wrote:

We're all caught up on all the good stuff but what about some stuff that seems a little lackluster? The harpoon for instance. Kinda lame.

The reprinted wind and fire wheels for me. d4 advanced weapon feels hard to justify even if it does have a massive pile of traits, in part because the use case of having all those traits running is so hard.

The fist of the ruby phoenix version was like +3 traits over a shortsword which was probably too much, but I would have rather seen it lose twin and disarm and versatile if we had to cut back.

Karambit didn't get nerfed in the reprint, but it's still a d4 advanced weapon. Fatal d8 is worth a die size, but that makes it basically comparable to the short sword, not sure why it's advanced. Clearly missing a trait.

The sansetsukon is a cool weapon, but I feel like trading Reach and Trip for Backswing and Disarm is a downgrade (compared to the bo staff). I know people really value flail crit spec, but I'm just not sure how much that really tips the scales.

Not necessarily lackluster but it feels a little weird to see the Earthbreaker go from one of the preeminent heavy hitting two-handers in PF1 to being a d6 one-hander in PF2, especially when the description still talks about how massive and brutal it is.

The khopesh was reprinted from Gods and Magic with no changes. 1d8 trip isn't bad, but it still means it's identical to the temple sword for everyone but monks, and I'm not really sure why it was reprinted since it wasn't an AP item.

[graystone]

aobst128 wrote:

We're all caught up on all the good stuff but what about some stuff that seems a little lackluster? The harpoon for instance. Kinda lame.

The one that jumps out is Corset knife is just a dagger that lost versatile s for concealable. All the rest seem at least ok. I kind of like combat lure for bonuses to a companions attack.

Harpoon is OKish for low levels: 1d8 and 30' on thrown isn't bad and tethered lets you get it back with an action cost similar to drawing/reload 1. It of course doesn't do well compared to a comp bow, but what does? It's too bad it can' be actually be used like a real harpoon to pull a creature to you.

Squiggit wrote:

Karambit didn't get nerfed in the reprint, but it's still a d4 advanced weapon. Fatal d8 is worth a die size, but that makes it basically comparable to the short sword, not sure why it's advanced. Clearly missing a trait.

Yeah, it's not a great weapon as an advanced weapon: as a martial, sure.

Squiggit wrote:

The reprinted wind and fire wheels for me. d4 advanced weapon feels hard to justify even if it does have a massive pile of traits, in part because the use case of having all those traits running is so hard.

Hmm... I pretty much ignore advanced as most aren't worth the hoops needed for use. For me, this totally fails as the one class that might want it, the monk, can't use it [why make advanced non-race monk weapons?]. If it was actually of a proficiency level monks could use, I could see some use as an off hand weapon.

Squiggit wrote:

The sansetsukon is a cool weapon, but I feel like trading Reach and Trip for Backswing and Disarm is a pretty significant downgrade (compared to the bo staff). I know people really value flail crit spec, but I'm just not sure how much that really tips the scales.

Backswing works well as the monk is going to be flurrying, so I think it's a downgrade but when you add flail it starts looking like more of a sidegrade IMO.

Squiggit wrote:

Not necessarily lackluster but it feels a little weird to see the Earthbreaker go from one of the preeminent heavy hitting two-handers in PF1 to being a d6 one-hander in PF2, especially when the description still talks about how massive and brutal it is.

I think they went with 1 handed as MOST users of it took Thunder and Fang for one handed use in PF1: It DOES feel weird that it wasn't made a 1d8/2 handed 1d12.

Squiggit wrote:

The khopesh was reprinted from Gods and Magic with no changes. 1d8 trip isn't bad, but it still means it's identical to the temple sword for everyone but monks, and I'm not really sure why it was reprinted since it wasn't an AP item.

I think the unchanged reprints are so that people can look of equipment mainly with his new book and the core book: it saves people from needing to pull out so many books if you're not using something like nethys.

[aobst128]

For the karambit, I actually see it as more of a light pick with finesse. That's an added trait.

As well as having higher damage output compared to the handful of other D4 finesse deadly weapons like the war razor.

[graystone]

aobst128 wrote:

For the karambit, I actually see it as more of a light pick with finesse. That's an added trait.

As well as having higher damage output compared to the handful of other D4 finesse deadly weapons like the war razor.

It's a hard sell for the difference between deadly and fatal to be a jump to advanced proficiency. Is a crit fisher going to jump through the hoops for an advanced weapon over a marital one to go with fatal over deadly? I wouldn't but maybe it's enough for others.

[aobst128]

graystone wrote:

aobst128 wrote:

For the karambit, I actually see it as more of a light pick with finesse. That's an added trait.

As well as having higher damage output compared to the handful of other D4 finesse deadly weapons like the war razor.

It's a hard sell for the difference between deadly and fatal to be a jump to advanced proficiency. Is a crit fisher going to jump through the hoops for an advanced weapon over a marital one to go with fatal over deadly? I wouldn't but maybe it's enough for others.

Personally, I'd like to see a Karambit on a drifter just so I don't feel like my 20 was wasted on my melee and not my pistol even if that's illogical. But hear me out cause I think we can unravel the karambit's traits a bit. Agile is a common trade for a die size. You can see that with the light pick. Fatal is also a die size trade. Although, it's a little more than 1 since fatal weapons usually don't have other traits like picks. So if you trade both, you end up with a d8 finesse weapon, which sits comfortably in advanced.

I'd probably prefer a d6 finesse fatal d10 one hander though. The hyper rapier.

[graystone]

aobst128 wrote:

I'd probably prefer a d6 finesse fatal d10 one hander though. The hyper rapier.

Rapier Pistol would be my pick for crit fishing for switch hitting, fatal on the pistol and deadly on the rapier: Karambit would only be an option with Unconventional Weaponry [Tian Xia].

[aobst128]

graystone wrote:

aobst128 wrote:

I'd probably prefer a d6 finesse fatal d10 one hander though. The hyper rapier.

Rapier Pistol would be my pick for crit fishing for switch hitting, fatal on the pistol and deadly on the rapier: Karambit would only be an option with Unconventional Weaponry [Tian Xia].

Well the idea with the drifter is you've got your fatal pistol and your fatal melee. The karambit is the only finesse fatal weapon. Although, I guess a drifter could dual wield rapier pistols to use with stab and blast.

[aobst128]

With the falcata in the picture though, maybe being behind a bit with 16 strength isn't so bad for drifters.

[graystone]

aobst128 wrote:

Although, I guess a drifter could dual wield rapier pistols to use with stab and blast.

That was my thought: twice as many shots before you reload.

aobst128 wrote:

With the falcata in the picture though, maybe being behind a bit with 16 strength isn't so bad for drifters.

No what I'd do, but if it works for you. ;)

[aobst128]

graystone wrote:

aobst128 wrote:

Although, I guess a drifter could dual wield rapier pistols to use with stab and blast.

That was my thought: twice as many shots before you reload.

aobst128 wrote:

With the falcata in the picture though, maybe being behind a bit with 16 strength isn't so bad for drifters.

No what I'd so, bu if it works for you. ;)

"Anti drifter" with a falcata and a rotary bow.

[roquepo]

Squiggit wrote:

Karambit didn't get nerfed in the reprint, but it's still a d4 advanced weapon. Fatal d8 is worth a die size, but that makes it basically comparable to the short sword, not sure why it's advanced. Clearly missing a trait.

The Karambit is quite good for dex based dual wield Fighters. Worse at dual wielding than pure STR fighters, but you get to use thrown knife weapons as ranged back-up. I see it more as an enabler to that playstyle (which is pretty lackluster without it) than anything else.

[pixierose]

I got my copy, and I have to say the two new companion options were a very pleasant surprise.

[aobst128]

pixierose wrote:

I got my copy, and I have to say the two new companion options were a very pleasant surprise.

Lucky.

[aobst128]

Mine did ship today though so hopefully I get my hands on it soon.

[Gisher]

pixierose wrote:

I got my copy, and I have to say the two new companion options were a very pleasant surprise.

I didn't realize those would be in there. Any familiar options?

[Laclale♪]

Is there "Scrounger specific" feat in that book?

[Red Griffyn]

Squiggit wrote:

The sansetsukon is a cool weapon, but I feel like trading Reach and Trip for Backswing and Disarm is a downgrade (compared to the bo staff). I know people really value flail crit spec, but I'm just not sure how much that really tips the scales.

Great for my fighter -> Student of Perfection -> Jalmeri Heavenseeker -> Heaven's Thunder builds. Flail/hammer crit specialization mostly benefits the fighter and any monk weapon (even ignoring Jalmeri Heavenseeker) can pick up a monk dedication + monastic weaponry + flurry of blows at L10 to improve action economy.

[pixierose]

Gisher wrote:

pixierose wrote:

I got my copy, and I have to say the two new companion options were a very pleasant surprise.

I didn't realize those would be in there. Any familiar options?

There is one new familiar ability.

The new companion options are more assistive companions like the Legchair. That are like super super cool, people who like oozes will be happy, and druids have a really cool thematic choice as well.

[Gisher]

pixierose wrote:

Gisher wrote:

pixierose wrote:

I got my copy, and I have to say the two new companion options were a very pleasant surprise.

I didn't realize those would be in there. Any familiar options?

There is one new familiar ability.

The new companion options are more assistive companions like the Legchair. That are like super super cool, people who like oozes will be happy, and druids have a really cool thematic choice as well.

Those sound fun! I have the feeling that the designers have been saving up a lot of ideas over the last few years for this book.

[Arachnofiend]

pixierose wrote:

Gisher wrote:

pixierose wrote:

I got my copy, and I have to say the two new companion options were a very pleasant surprise.

I didn't realize those would be in there. Any familiar options?

There is one new familiar ability.

The new companion options are more assistive companions like the Legchair. That are like super super cool, people who like oozes will be happy, and druids have a really cool thematic choice as well.

Hello, it is I, a person who likes oozes. I would be curious to know why I should be happy.

[pixierose]

Arachnofiend wrote:

pixierose wrote:

Gisher wrote:

pixierose wrote:

I got my copy, and I have to say the two new companion options were a very pleasant surprise.

I didn't realize those would be in there. Any familiar options?

There is one new familiar ability.

The new companion options are more assistive companions like the Legchair. That are like super super cool, people who like oozes will be happy, and druids have a really cool thematic choice as well.

Hello, it is I, a person who likes oozes. I would be curious to know why I should be happy.

There is an Ooze "animal companion" it is an assistive companion, it has the mount feature, and has motion sense. It is super cool. Sadly no art of it.

[Xethik]

pixierose wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:

pixierose wrote:

Gisher wrote:

pixierose wrote:

I got my copy, and I have to say the two new companion options were a very pleasant surprise.

I didn't realize those would be in there. Any familiar options?

There is one new familiar ability.

The new companion options are more assistive companions like the Legchair. That are like super super cool, people who like oozes will be happy, and druids have a really cool thematic choice as well.

Hello, it is I, a person who likes oozes. I would be curious to know why I should be happy.

There is an Ooze "animal companion" it is an assistive companion, it has the mount feature, and has motion sense. It is super cool. Sadly no art of it.

There are some ooze items as well, but my favorite is an Ooze Farm as an example of a Garden of Wonder.

[Red Griffyn]

So now that there are some subscriber PDFs floating around. Does anyone have more info on the two artifact archetypes? There was some preview on the RPGBOT website for the Ursine Avenger Hood, but I was hoping someone could share more mechanics from the dedication (claw damage size/traits) and whether the claws ever improve? Also any wording on the bear hug feat or what appears to be ever increasing enlarge feats from L12 to L18 (is it like once per hour or focus spells, are we shapeshifting like a druid and have to use wildshape stats or just becoming humanoid man bear pigs?)

More importantly what is the other archetype? What are the cool feats or abilities it brings to the table? Does it have feats at every level or are there gaps?

[Xethik]

Red Griffyn wrote:

So now that there are some subscriber PDFs floating around. Does anyone have more info on the two artifact archetypes? There was some preview on the RPGBOT website for the Ursine Avenger Hood, but I was hoping someone could share more mechanics from the dedication (claw damage size/traits) and whether the claws ever improve? Also any wording on the bear hug feat or what appears to be ever increasing enlarge feats from L12 to L18 (is it like once per hour or focus spells, are we shapeshifting like a druid and have to use wildshape stats or just becoming humanoid man bear pigs?)

More importantly what is the other archetype? What are the cool feats or abilities it brings to the table? Does it have feats at every level or are there gaps?

The archetype doesn't have a dedication in the traditional sense, it just takes up your free archetype slots. You can spend an action to morph and it seems at will/dismissable.

Bear Hug is like Combat Grab but it needs to be Claw Strikes for each.
The level 12 and 18 feats are persistent Enlarge (2nd and 4th respectively).

At level 16 you can improve the Jaws and Claws.

The other archetype is about being an emotionless cold spellcaster.

[Arachnofiend]

pixierose wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:

pixierose wrote:

Gisher wrote:

pixierose wrote:

I got my copy, and I have to say the two new companion options were a very pleasant surprise.

I didn't realize those would be in there. Any familiar options?

There is one new familiar ability.

The new companion options are more assistive companions like the Legchair. That are like super super cool, people who like oozes will be happy, and druids have a really cool thematic choice as well.

Hello, it is I, a person who likes oozes. I would be curious to know why I should be happy.

There is an Ooze "animal companion" it is an assistive companion, it has the mount feature, and has motion sense. It is super cool. Sadly no art of it.

Aha, I should be happy because I can ride an ooze like a mobile bean chair. Perfectly understandable, that DOES make me happy.

[Gisher]

Arachnofiend wrote:

pixierose wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:

pixierose wrote:

Gisher wrote:

pixierose wrote:

I got my copy, and I have to say the two new companion options were a very pleasant surprise.

I didn't realize those would be in there. Any familiar options?

There is one new familiar ability.

The new companion options are more assistive companions like the Legchair. That are like super super cool, people who like oozes will be happy, and druids have a really cool thematic choice as well.

Hello, it is I, a person who likes oozes. I would be curious to know why I should be happy.

There is an Ooze "animal companion" it is an assistive companion, it has the mount feature, and has motion sense. It is super cool. Sadly no art of it.

Aha, I should be happy because I can ride an ooze like a mobile bean chair. Perfectly understandable, that DOES make me happy.

Sitting in an ooze chair and petting my spellslime familiar sounds pretty relaxing. :)

[pixierose]

The oozes support benefit has it grabs an object from 15 feet away and puts it in your lap. Perfect for grabbing the remote.

[HenshinFanatic]

pixierose wrote:

There is one new familiar ability.

The new companion options are more assistive companions like the Legchair. That are like super super cool, people who like oozes will be happy, and druids have a really cool thematic choice as well.

Oooh, what sort of ability did familiars get?

[25speedforseaweedleshy]

with spellstriker staf melee magus have another power boost

paizo finally loosen the grip on shifting staff

starlit span are still the best

[Old_Man_Robot]

25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:

with spellstriker staf melee magus have another power boost

paizo finally loosen the grip on shifting staff

starlit span are still the best

What are you referring to, sorry?

[Onkonk]

There is a Spellstriker Staff which is a spellcasting staff that comes with a shifting rune on it as well as an ability to do damage in a 5ft emanation when you miss a spellstrike.

[Red Griffyn]

Onkonk wrote:

There is a Spellstriker Staff which is a spellcasting staff that comes with a shifting rune on it as well as an ability to do damage in a 5ft emanation when you miss a spellstrike.

Does it have certain spells on it?

[chapter6]

What about the magical tattoos?