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A DM I know allows it, but I questioned the ruling because an SLA isn't a spell; nor is it actually "cast."

Then again, its effects are virtually the same as a spell's, giving rise to my uncertainty.


Yup. Mostly for Disposable Weapon and maybe critfishing. There are some more extensive thoughts I might discuss at length, but I've kept from mentioning those as not to derail the question.

I was also wondering if the issue could be avoided altogether: Does adding Magic/Greater Magic Weapon and the Magus Arcane Pool enhancements count as making nonmagical, non-masterwork weapons/ammunition "magically strengthened?"


Although magical and masterwork weapons made out of fragile materials do not possess the disadvantages of a fragile weapon - can weapons made of the materials still possess the Fragile quality?

The PRD says this about Fragile weapons:

Paizo PRD wrote:
Fragile weapons cannot take the beating that sturdier weapons can. A fragile weapon gains the broken condition if the wielder rolls a natural 1 on an attack roll with the weapon. If a fragile weapon is already broken, the roll of a natural 1 destroys it instead. Masterwork and magical fragile weapons lack these flaws unless otherwise noted in the item description.

Note how the weapons are still referred to as "fragile weapons," but lack all the flaws of fragile weapons. Read as written, this passage implies the existence of the feature without its quality - which is invaluable for some feats and several other class abilities.

All special materials that can be used to make Fragile weapons are as follows: Bone, Bronze, Glass, Gold, Obsidian, Stone, and Viridium. Every material is available on the PRD except for Glass, which was taken from Pathfinder #71: Rasputin Must Die! pg. 89.

One large issue is that most Fragile materials on the PRD have the following caveat listed in the material description:

Paizo PRD wrote:
Magically strengthened <material> does not have the fragile quality...

The only materials that lack this sentence are Viridium and Glass. A Viridium weapon must be magically strengthened by a specific treatment at a cost of 1kgp, while the section for Glass weapons merely tells the reader to refer to Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 146 (the PRD section at the top) for further details.

Therefore, does the lack of a disqualifying sentence in both materials allow the Fragile quality in magical or masterwork weapons made from these materials?


If you lose a Suzerain Scepter, your bonus followers are all lost. I haven't seen any other rules though. What happens to your cohort if your PC loses, say, their Diadem of Inspiring Rule? Would the loss not matter because the cohort has already been recruited?


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Metallic dragons are known to walk the world in human form, keeping watch over the lives of men.

Perhaps they'll make another mistake. Perhaps the richly dressed, subservient page they just struck was an Elder Wyrm Silver Dragon in disguise.

The man reels from the blow. He slowly wipes his bloody mouth with the back of his hand and, in an ancient and booming voice roars: "So you wanted a fight, whelps? Well, YOU SHALL HAVE IT!"


I for one predict an FAQ ruling of 0.5x Dex on the offhand and 1x Dex for Two-handing. Not because of how that reasoning has any semblance of sane logic in its justification, but because the alternatives provide too much power creep for official play. I'll be genuinely surprised if this doesn't end like that 1/day Paragon Surge ruling.


Wait, what? Damn. RAW, is it totally legal to get one of those as your arcane bond?


I find it totally hilarious that in absence of an official ruling, the people arguing against 1.5 two-handed Dex to damage are by proxy arguing for full offhanded Dex to damage. Either way, somebody's going to try and get more damage.


Does this item need a move action per round of use or only a move action to start the ability until the player moves again?


20th level - the cold will never bother you anyway!

Whoever was responsible for making this tiara, I love you. Forever.


Can you get Void? +2 to saves against spells, then scaling 1/5 levels. Reveal Weakness is a standard action, but you can reduce target's saves+AC by 1/2 your caster level (which I assume you can boost). Cast a Quickened touch spell and attack as a free action through Spellstrike.


Yeah, I thought the accuracy increase would be pretty sweet, and like Shisumo said they removed the clause where you gain only your full Str bonus on a flurry, so 2-handers have that going for them.

christos gurd wrote:
New flurry is only two additional attacks total, but have no penalty and use whatever the classes bab(in the case of the UNC monk, full) is. These extra attacks stack with extra attacks from other sources like haste or twf.

I was hoping TWF would work but one of the devs said it does not. Ah well.


So we have a 3/4ths BAB class with flurry, which is said to function like a monk's. My question is, does the Sacred Fist add an extra attack at their highest BAB at the specified levels, or does their flurry emulate the monk's full-BAB progression completely?

The latter would be cool; the former, not so much.


This just in - are there any benefits to adding a Variant Multiclass Gunslinger? I mean, you could technically get Dead Shot at 19, but 99% of games don't make it that far and I don't see how this is better than just multiclassing Musket Master.

That being said, I vaguely recall something mentioned about Unchained Rogues getting their Minor/Major Magic Talents at will, so maybe this could be used in conjunction with Vanish and Sneak Attack?


Is there still a clause saying the Unchained monk (only) adds his full Str bonus to all successful attacks in his flurry?


Kyoketsu Shoge wrote:

This weapon consists of a foot-long double-edged blade, with another smaller, curved hook-blade sticking out the side like a rooster’s spur. The blade is strung to a large iron hoop with 10-foot length of rope.

Benefit: The blade can be used as an off-hand melee weapon or thrown like a dagger, while the rope and circlet can be whipped around and swung at opponents as a bludgeoning reach weapon.

Okay, I can throw the blade end like a dagger, which seems to imply that I can do so while still holding the rope. But the range increment is 20' while the rope is 10'. This seems to imply that I don't have to let go of the rope; it might communicate what would happen if I had.

Since this is a single weapon, can you in fact still be wielding the weapon after you throw it, or at least hanging on to the rope end? Would you be able to retrieve the knife end, and what sort of action would that be? Would you need an action to retrieve it at all?


You sound like you'd be fun at parties.

Anyways, I was never debating what the FAQ says explicitly and what it means for legal play, so that's that.


Definitely a Level-20 Gestalt, using Pathfinder Unchained, and maybe without Mythic levels.

But if we're talking about the kid Kazuto being suddenly tossed into Golarion fantasyland, I can see this happening with a martial Gestalt.


He was also the fastest player on the servers due to his reaction time, and in Pathfinder your Reflex save and your Dodge bonus are directly keyed off Dex. Damage from Dex also makes more sense in that regard, because the Seed system gave scaling benefits from high reflexes. And while his game stats kept changing, the player behind the game - Kirigaya Kazuto - was defined by his dexterity and fine control.

Limiting your class to martial only is a challenge, but with Pathfinder Unchained coming out the Rogue will soon have free Weapon Finesse, Dex to damage and what I understand to be more debuff mechanics. That's in addition to evasion and Sneak Attack. The Slayer will give full BAB, Studied Target, a ranger's Two-weapon Fighting feat progression, d10 HD and stacking Sneak Attack.

Studied Target makes sense, because Kirito is smart and analyzes his opponents in a fight. You'd have to build towards a way to reliably apply Sneak Attacks - I'd think the Blade of Mercy trait, Enforcer and Shatter Defenses could be valid since he doesn't like killing. Thug Rogue would synergize with that.

Alternatively, Rogue/(Unchained Version) monk may also be a valid choice due to the monk's shiny new full BAB. It would be a much more mobile playstyle due to the Flying Kick flurry, which would let you move equal to your bonus movement once per flurry. On the other hand, you wouldn't need a second weapon because of the flurry. Maybe go Master of Many Styles+Kata Master monk archetypes to replace the flurry, and take TWF. With full BAB the Opportune Parry/Riposte would be equivalent to a Swashbuckler's.

I would not pick Paladin, because Heathcliff is your paladin.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
No, you have talons on a critter that are being called claws. This is not the game breaking loophole you're looking for, do not try to push it.

I don't see how examining the validity of this build and a relevant FAQ counts as pushing for "game breaking loopholes." Stop using loaded words - there is only the game and its rules. What it means to break a game is a matter of personal bias and has no place in this discussion.

That being said, claws and talons appear to be a relic of 3.5, as they both did piercing and slashing. In such a case, I can only conclude that the Giant Eagle entry in Pathfinder needs to be updated to talons, because claws by Pathfinder rules function as a different weapon. The RAW entry stats as they stand are still against the FAQ ruling.

It would be nice to know if these differences resulted from editorial oversight, or if someone actually knew about the change and left them as they were until the FAQ came around.


Elbedor, you raise a good point. From the Giant Eagle bestiary entry we might have a case directly contradicting that FAQ's technical validity, because it's clearly implied the claws are on the eagle's feet.

Eagle, Giant wrote:

This immense eagle's feathers are golden brown and shimmer in the light. Its sharp beak and curved TALONS are dark yellow...

Melee 2 CLAWS +7 (1d8+4), bite +7 (1d6+4)

Not only does this mirror the normal eagle's entry for talons in the exact same location, but the term talons refers only to a flying creature's feet.

These stats are also the same in the d20srd, leading me to suspect that the differences were always intended. Mechanically, claws can do blunt in addition to slashing damage, but as you can see from the Giant Eagle text they're virtually interchangeable.

Maybe this justification doesn't hold up in PFS due to the FAQ ruling, but anyone who examines the rules progressions from 3.5 could obviously conclude that claws can go on your feet.


Speaking of synergy, gestalting a hybrid class archetype with a hybrid class archetype can allow you to cherrypick the best features from four different classes.

For example, I'd totally pick Sacred Fist Warpriest + Eldritch Scrapper Empyreal Sorcerer, with a 1-level dip in Master of Many Styles Monk somewhere.

You have semi-full BAB like a monk with flurry, Pummeling Charge (think clustered shots+improved critical) to charge+flurry by level 2 or 3, and doubled casting classes keyed to Wis. You can cast two spells in the same round using Warpriest fervor for divine as a swift action.

Otherwise you basically have all the important features of a Monk/Cleric/Sorcerer/Brawler.

My second choice would be Inspired Blade Swashbuckler/Blade Adept Arcanist.

You get Full BAB, dex-to-damage with the Fencing Grace setup, your level to damage via Precise Strike and a scaling Black Blade rapier like a Bladebound Magus. Oh, and lots of spells and exploits keyed to magus arcana.

Essentially you're an Eldritch Knight, except better. Something like a glorified Fighter/Wizard/Sorcerer/Magus.


Inner Sea Gods - Droskar's Guiding Ring wrote:
Once per day, the wearer may use charm person. If Droskar is the wearer’s patron deity, any time the wearer crafts a magic item, she may choose to pay half of the item’s construction cost instead of the full cost. The wearer spends time working on the item normally, but at the time of completion there is a 50% chance that the item turns out nonmagical and worthless.

So if I had, say, Hedge Magician (-5%), Requires Skill to Use (-10%), and Requires Specific Class/Alignment (-30% price = -15% cost) could I attempt to craft at 20% cost with a 1/2 chance of failure?


I wanted to point this out earlier but did some rules digging to confirm my suspicions. This FAQ seems to indicate that claws go on your hands only, unless you're a quadruped with pounce/rake, and if you somehow are bipedal with wings, what goes on your feet has to be called talons, not reskinned claws.

That being said, do these rules actually allow claws on your polymorphed "hands" (wings) like an archaeopteryx might have? Or is it strictly just hands? The ingame archaeopteryx doesn't have any, which is why I thought I'd ask.


Ah, good to know. Thanks.


Slightly related question. If the Blade Adept can "use her arcane reservoir in place of the magus' arcane pool" with the magus arcana exploit, could she regain arcane points with a wyroot weapon? Could she choose a wyroot weapon as her arcane bond before it becomes a black blade, and if so, would it still be made from wyroot?


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

The verdict is still out concerning this FAQ due to unclear wording. It depends on what "if I don't have that archetype" means - does that mean the replacement features are available to the archetype class only, or does a multiclassed character with levels in this archetype class count as having the archetype where the other class levels are concerned. I suspect it's the former, but this FAQ doesn't even take multiclassed characters into consideration, and I think it's vague enough to require further clarification.


Like how several others stated, I wish I could see more offensive synergy between the Mesmerist's 3/4ths BAB and his class abilities.

For example, Touch Treatment comes on at 3rd level, but all it does is remove conditions through physical touch. This doesn't impress me because it functions on reactive tactics, not proactive offense. And we know reactive strategies don't work well in this game unless you break action economy. I really wished this ability, or any other class ability, actually, could add negative enchantment-related conditions through physical contact, providing at least some incentive to use physical attacks in a vein similar to the Magus' Spellstrike and Spell Combat.


What is the purpose of the 3/4ths BAB? It's possible that I'm failing to see it here, but I can't seem to determine any class features that benefit this progression.

Furthermore, all but one of the tricks used are essentially beneficial buffs requiring the presence of an ally. Unless Sani's interpretation is correct, only one or two tricks can be active at a time. This makes the benefits so situational, and so reliant on an ideal convergence of several factors as to make any strategic setup extremely inefficient. Much of what these tricks accomplish can already be done by several other classes.

Personally, I think the class was a great concept, but also that it grew bogged down by the BAB and ally buff mechanics. I wish that the BAB could be reduced, the offensive capacities of the mesmerist's hypnotic stare increased and the utility of mesmerist tricks extended beyond doing nice things for allies. I think what most of us expected was more new enchantment/illusion mechanics and less of the bard.

Finally, I also wish there was an advanced way the Mesmerist could see through his Spectral Smoke trick, at least temporarily. It seems particularly situational at the moment.


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So I just realized that with the Investigator/Alchemist Alchemical Allocation extract you can drink the Sex Shift Elixir, spit it back into the container and redrink it indefinitely so long as you keep preparing your extracts.

... Which is entirely disgusting and unsanitary, but I'm sure people will find out some extremely funny ways to make use of this fact.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Hmmm, does Firesight allow you to see through obscuring mist? If so, a ranged rogue or ninja with a wand of obscuring mist could work out.

Mist and smoke are not the same thing; fog/clouds/mist are what Sylphs with the Cloud Gazer feat can see through.

However, using a smokestick as an alchemical reagent for Obscuring Mist or Fog Cloud will produce smoke instead of mist, so you'd be able to see through the smoke that way.


I have to say the Inspired Blade Swashbuckler, both as a single class and as a snazzy one-level dip. Best step-up to Fencing Grace as a feat, ever.

thegreenteagamer wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
Sadly no way to get int to hit or damage.
Because in reality, in a fight, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If the other guy is faster AND stronger, you're gettin' that butt whooped. You could have knowledge of every martial art in the book, but if you can't swing fast enough to use it to block those punches, or the other guy swings so dang hard that it breaks through your blocks, it doesn't matter how many books on kung fu you read. Int to attack/damage just doesn't make sense.

You're confusing theoretical knowledge with practical knowledge. Think about every pro boxer/MMA fighter out there who knows when to go for the face, when to take hits and when to hop back. Think about Mohammad Ali and his famous rope-a-dope stamina gambit against George Foreman in '74. Think about the street fighter who knows the old trick of dropping a handful of jingling coins, distracting a human opponent enough to land a sucker punch. There are plenty of ways to fight smart.

Mechanically, a 13th-level Kensai adds their Int mod as damage against flat-footed opponents. Kirin Strike adds twice the Int mod as damage on a hit against identified creatures with a swift action. I can see several interesting ways to mess with this using True Strike, Butterfly's Sting and a light pick.


I disagree on Slashing Grace. A level dip reduces the magus' caster level by 1, but using a Dueling Sword presents its own disadvantage because of the reduced critical threat range. With a Keen weapon or Improved Critical, we're talking about a difference of 30% vs 20% here, and magus touch spells delivered through Spellstrike on critical hits do x2 damage.

If you're going for Dex, your current options are

(1) Scimitar Dervish Dancer; 2 net feat tax, cannot be taken at level 1, scimitars only.
(2) Slashing Grace with a Dueling Sword; 2 net feat tax, 1H slashing selected weapon only.
(3) Dip in Inspired Blade (Swashbuckler) and retrain towards Fencing Grace; 0 net feat tax, rapiers only.

I can compensate for the caster level loss with Magical Knack (magus) and, outside of Pathfinder Society, Sacred Geometry.


With the Advanced Class Guide out, I would definitely say Dex.

If you dip in the Inspired Blade Swashbuckler you get Weapon Finesse for prerequisite purposes and Weapon Focus (rapier). You could immediately retrain your Weapon Focus (rapier) to another feat you want, then regain Weapon Focus (rapier) when you take levels in Kensai, netting you two entire free feats for the dip. Then you could go for Fencing Grace, which adds dex-to-damage for rapiers.

Some further synergy: Assuming you dumped Cha, you'd also get a pool of (Int mod + 1) panache points and all the level-1 Swashbuckler deeds. If you take Flamboyant arcana you'd be able to supplement your derring-do and opportune parry/riposte deeds with arcane points, and if you take Arcane Deed arcana you could get to use higher-level deeds with your arcane points.

Last but not least. If you get an Ironwood Wyroot rapier, you'd gain an arcane point AND a panache point every time it critted.


I somehow feel this was all my fault. =(

The ACG Feat in question was Kick Up. Not a deed but functionally as described, allowing you to retrieve an item as a swift action:

(part of) Kick Up wrote:
As long as you have at least one hand free, you can use a swift action to retrieve a single unattended item or weapon that weighs 10 pounds or less from the ground, either in your square or in any adjacent square not occupied or threatened by an enemy.

Unfortunately for the purpose of this discussion, you'd need 1 level in slayer or swashbuckler to take the feat.


Ah, that was what I forgot. I really do hope this works in some form because I want to tinker around with your build some more - although - I only understand you can draw weapons if they're sheathed. I don't see it, but is there something about the weapon cords that allows you to "Draw" the dropped weapons instead of picking them up?

The way I saw Gun Twirling working was -> Holster pistol A -> Reload pistol B -> Holster B -> Draw A -> Reload A -> Draw B all for free actions.

Also, to get the Leaping Shot deed I believe you'll need to stick Point Blank Shot in there somewhere.


Could you kindly break down the action economy for the last part, please?

I understand Drop (free) and Reload (free for Rapid Reload + alchemical cartridges) but I'm not sure what made drawing the pistols or picking up the pistols swift or free.


I'm having a little trouble following this build - how many levels did the original version take? Eight?

Quick Draw/Weapon Focus/Dazzling Display/Gun Twirling is a pretty heavy feat tax, so I'm curious as to how many levels it'd take to get the full thing up. That Gun Twirling feat tree probably takes precedence over the Whirlwind Attack, too. Maybe take Antihero for another feat if the DM allows hero points.


The minimum you get from either stat for your panache pool is 1, so even if you dumped Cha you'd get (Int mod+1) panache points.


Hrm, that's an important point to raise. But the Amateur Gunslinger feat has a prerequisite that the Arcane Deed arcana does not -

Ultimate Combat wrote:

Amateur Gunslinger (Combat)

Although you are not a gunslinger, you have and can use grit.
Prerequisite: You have no levels in a class that has the grit class feature.

I would say that specific example is a moot comparison because the feat explicitly disallows you from taking the archetypes in its relevant class. The benefits were 1st-level anyways. Now, the most restrictive interpretation for the Inspired Blade/Magus would be that this build wouldn't even be able to take Inspired Strike or Bleeding Wound Arcane Deeds.

Ultimate Combat wrote:
Each alternate class feature presented in an archetype replaces a specific class feature from its parent class... When an archetype includes multiple alternate class features, a character must take them all.

So in the Amateur Gunslinger situation, it wasn't even an issue because people were looking to take archetype deeds when they didn't have the archetype. I think the question is if you do take a level in an archetype, whether the "replacement" of all your class features extends to feats that make extremely blanket statements about said class features. Having found only opinions, still looking for Rules, Errata or FAQs. :(


4 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

The Magus Flamboyant Arcana and Arcane Deed arcana allows her to take a Swashbuckler deed at the equivalent Magus level, using arcane points instead of panache.

Flamboyant Arcana:
Advanced Class Guide wrote:
Flamboyant Arcana (Ex): A magus gains the derring-do and opportune parry and riposte deeds from the swashbuckler’s list of deeds. The magus can spend points from his arcane pool as panache points to use these deeds and any other deeds he gains from the deed arcana, but he cannot use points from his arcane pool to use deeds from other classes or those gained by feats, nor can he regain points to his arcane pool as a swashbuckler would regain panache points. Effects that add to, reduce the cost of, or otherwise affect panache or grit don’t affect the arcane pool of a magus with this arcana.

Arcane Deed:
Advanced Class Guide wrote:
Arcane Deed (Ex): When a magus takes this arcana, he can pick any one deed from the swashbuckler class feature as long as that deed can be used by a swashbuckler of his magus level. The magus can use that deed by using points from his arcane pool as the panache points required for that deed. A magus can take this arcana multiple times, each time gaining a new deed. The magus must have the flamboyant arcana (see below) to select this arcana.

If my magus dips 1 level of Inspired Blade Swashbuckler, could she take the replacement Inspired Strike deed as an Arcane Deed (Inspired Strike) arcana at 12?

Inspired Strike:
Advanced Class Guide wrote:

Deeds: The inspired blade gains the following deeds, each of which replaces an existing deed.

Inspired Strike (Ex): At 11th level, an inspired blade can spend 1 panache point when making an attack with a rapier to gain an insight bonus on that attack roll equal to her Intelligence modifier (minimum +1). When an inspired blade hits with an attack augmented by inspired strike, she can spend 1 additional panache point to make the hit a critical threat, though if she does so, she does not regain panache if she confirms that critical threat. The cost of this deed cannot be reduced by abilities such as Signature Deed UC . This ability replaces bleeding wound.

I feel this might be useful since a wyroot ironwood rapier would effectively give 1 arcane point back, making the overall cost 1 arcane point to autothreaten a critical.
Not to mention, dipping into Inspired Blade effectively gives another pool of (Int mod+1) panache to play with (although that wouldn't be used with the Arcane Deed).
Plus, the free Weapon Focus (Rapier) and Weapon Finesse would build up nicely to Fencing Grace.


Assume you have a White-haired Witch (or other class) with a prehensile hair natural attack with reach equal to or greater than 10', Combat Reflexes and the Final Embrace feat.

My understanding is that any enemies that approach within your range can take attacks of opportunity and be grappled as a free action as per the Final Embrace feat and therefore Grab (Su). Is the free action grapple applicable only after successful attacks, or can the character maintain multiple ongoing grapples as free actions?


That's not really a power - it's more like a defining advantage that isn't as key as it is for someone like, say, Tony Stark. Batman is still Batman without his tech, grappling hook and utility belt, and Bruce has demonstrated the capacity to work without his tools when sent back in time.

Still a good reason to pick a noncasting class with UMD as a class skill though.


I have a very important question - do you actually want Batman or a character with Batman's ideals?

Key points for Batman:

1. He's human and doesn't have any powers. So, no spells, supernatural abilities or spell-like abilities.
2. He sneaks around, terrifying his foes as a Dark Knight (Oneil & Adams, post-Frank Miller).
3. He generally fights without weapons and deals nonlethal damage.

Martial Batman:
All signs point to a Monk 1/Thug+Scout Rogue X. A Sap Master Build will give you insane nonlethal damage, and Enforcer allows you a free intimidate attempt and attack, causing your enemies to almost always become frightened when you hit them.

How this works:
Monk gives you free Improved Unarmed Strike Proficiency.
=> Sap Master grants double your Sneak Attack Die with a nonlethal attack.
=> Sap Adept doubles that again, giving double your level's worth in bonus damage per attack.
=> Knockout artist grants +1 damage per SA die rolled. You now deal your level in SA die + triple your level nonlethal damage.

=> Offensive Defense rogue talent now gives your level's worth as a bonus to AC.

=> Enforcer gives you a free intimidate attempt per nonlethal hit. Enemies are shaken for rounds = the damage you dealt.
=> Thug's Frightening feature lets you convert 4+ rounds shaken to frightened.
=> Shatter Defenses makes feared enemies flat-footed to your attacks.

This character might seem like a one-trick pony, but there's a two-pronged attack at play here. (1), There's a very decently high amount of damage being dealt here, and (2), You provide damage mitigation when you make the BBEG run away screaming.


Wait, are we saying that a build for the *rogue* is too powerful? :D

Remember one thing, though - facing constructs and undead would negate the Sap Master because they're immune to nonlethal and fear.

Like many have pointed out, picking a ninja would then be the mechanically superior choice compared to rogue. Another good option for the Ninja Scout would actually be dipping one level in Flowing Monk for the free Improved Unarmed Strike and Weapon Finesse. Then you could wear Brawling armor, take the TWF/Shatter Defenses/Sap Master feat trees and ignore that early cost in both weapon enchants. Your targets would no longer be frightened from Thug, but only shaken.

If you wanted to segue from roleplaying into combat, one way to make Realistic Likeness halfway useful would be to take Quick Draw => Persuasive => Betrayer. Shapeshift into a form the target is friendly towards, increase their attitude, immediate-action attack them and then begin the surprise round.


Two-weapon fighting is usually a bad idea except for one infamous example.

As a rogue you can also add the Thug archetype to lengthen shaken enemy durations, and automatically convert 4 rounds of shaken to frightened, in addition to making them sickened. Key feats are Enforcer => Shatter Defenses => Sap Adept => Sap Master to allow you to intimidate enemies as a free action whenever you deal nonlethal, make shaken enemies flat-footed, double your nonlethal sneak attack dice and apply that doubled number of die as additional nonlethal weapon damage per hit. That's huge. The TWF feat tree will maximize opportunities to hit your flat-footed enemies.

Talents and things that scale off your sneak attacks are suddenly doubled through this trick. Double your AC from Offensive Defense, double your bleed damage from Bleeding Attack - and so forth. It's amazingly strong.

If you're worried about flavour, you could take the Weapon Style Lantern Lodge faction trait to gain Sai proficiency, though you'd need to take Bludgeoner or make these Merciful (I wouldn't recommend this). Your Sai would then do nonlethal bludgeoning damage.

Alternatively, if you want to keep your main build, I would strongly suggest switching to Ninja both for wakizashis, spending ki for additional attacks and the Cha synergy. You could easily add the Blade of Mercy trait to deal nonlethal with slashing, and with Enforcer + keen weapons or Improved Critical you'd frighten the enemy whenever you crit. If the enemy is frightened they're running away, which is a form of damage mitigation in itself.


The problem with this current text is that it doesn't clarify whether "human form" is the literal intent (although it may seem that way) or simply a specific reference to Change Shape's functioning mechanic. Honestly, all this ambiguity could've been removed with one or two word edits:

modified Realistic Likeness wrote:
Benefit: You can precisely mimic the physical features of any human individual you have encountered. When you use your racial change shape ability, you can attempt to take the form of this individual, granting you a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks made to fool others with your impersonation.

or

modified Realistic Likeness wrote:
Benefit: You can precisely mimic the physical features of any medium humanoid individual you have encountered. When you use your racial change shape ability, you can attempt to take the form of this individual, granting you a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks made to fool others with your impersonation.

or

modified Realistic Likeness wrote:
Benefit: You can precisely mimic the physical features of any creature you have encountered. When you use your racial change shape ability, you can attempt to take the form of this creature, granting you a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks made to fool others with your impersonation.

Currently the RAW supports #3, which I don't agree with. Human-looking is defined by the medium-sized humanoid subtype and would be a fairly straightforward fix. Yes, it's fantastic, but the point of being a Kitsune is in playing a fantastic race. In the worst case, I'd rather the RP increase than have a case of diluted Eastern folklore.


The only valid argument I can see that would give allow spells to be permanent after leaving the plane would be if spells are not part of the list of conditions that occur retroactively. It's hard to make a case for that given the intent of the passage. You also can't argue RAW for the last statement -

Timeless wrote:
If a plane is timeless with respect to magic, any spell cast with a noninstantaneous duration is permanent until dispelled.

- because, on its own, it's a nonsensical statement. Read as written, all spells cast anywhere are permanent until dispelled given that some random timeless plane out there simply exists. So you already have to take the preceding context into consideration.


Measure of awesomeness must be determined by the archetypes they give out. Pathfinder archetypes really do have an odd habit of being "meh" or extremely full of win.

Insain Dragoon wrote:

When I think Swashbuckler I think The Princess Bride and when I think the Princess Bride I think "dem fort saves yo"

In this game you want (Some would even say need) at least one good save in Fort or Will.

That's why you spend the last few years building up an immunity to iocane powder. :D


Bother. What I wanted was the other way around, though. I was hoping the standard bonus feat list would simply change due to Seven Winds, then be completely replaced by the broader Master of Many Styles feats. So, end result gives absolutely no access to Seven Winds feats but only replacement Style feats, which is the only reason most would want to dip monk in the first place. Only possible interpretation from the overlapping feat descriptions, really.

RAW application doesn't seem plausible from what I've heard so far. :(

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