How will the Sacred Fist Warpriest's flurry function with Unchained?


Rules Questions

1 to 50 of 58 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

So we have a 3/4ths BAB class with flurry, which is said to function like a monk's. My question is, does the Sacred Fist add an extra attack at their highest BAB at the specified levels, or does their flurry emulate the monk's full-BAB progression completely?

The latter would be cool; the former, not so much.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Unchained has not been released.

Are you asking how it functions now?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Subscribers get their PDF when their book ships.


I had been wondering how the sacred fist might be affected by monk changes though.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Has that already shipped for subscribers?


Yep


It functions like a Monk's flurry, not an Unchained!Monks flurry.

Unless your GM wants it to.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, you are going to have a smaller group available to help, until it is available to non-subscribers.

By the way, is there anything in there for Paladins?


PFUC is PF UA: It's just published suggestions for house rules*, so it's, more than normal, what the GM wants.

*technically every printed tRPG product EVER is just published house rules for a bunch of people around a table, but hardly the point


It will be interesting to see how unchained works with PFS. I expect the classes to change over with older versions being grandfathered in and all new characters being unchained.

Scarab Sages

Currently, Flurry full emulates monk progression.

As for Unchained changes, idk.


Technically the current sacred fist doesn't tell you to use your levels as monk levels so flurry hardly works anyway.


Melkiador wrote:
It will be interesting to see how unchained works with PFS. I expect the classes to change over with older versions being grandfathered in and all new characters being unchained.

I'd be surprised if they ban the old barbarian and monk. That would remove a lot of well-loved archetypes, like the Zen Archer Monk.

Summoner on the other hand... I could definitely see the old summoner be replaced with the new one.


New flurry is only two additional attacks total, but have no penalty and use whatever the classes bab(in the case of the UNC monk, full) is. These extra attacks stack with extra attacks from other sources like haste or twf.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I would seriously lose my sh*t if they replaced classes, with stuff from Unchained.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Melkiador wrote:
I had been wondering how the sacred fist might be affected by monk changes though.

If you were going to try to adapt it over, I assume it would work like it says in the book: you'd get an extra unarmed or monk weapon attack at your highest normal attack bonus when you full attack, it wouldn't be compatible with TWF and wouldn't have any restrictions on two-handing a weapon, and you'd get another extra attack at 11th level. So a 6th level sacred fist with 20 Str and divine favor going (with no other relevant bonuses) would have a flurry sequence of +11/+11 (+4 BAB, +5 Str and +2 spell). That's basically the same as the current version, but it misses out on an attack.


Having had a chance to read through it, it's going to come down to individual tables and their preferences. The book is incredibly modular, presenting a huge number of systems (many of which can't be used together).

Example: One section lists an alternative alignment system while the one immediately following it gives advice on how to remove alignment entirely.

I don't think you need to worry about it replacing a bunch. Personally I wouldn't mind if they swapped it though in this case. The number of higher to hit attacks would be a bonus for the sacred fist I run personally.

Scarab Sages

blackbloodtroll wrote:

I would seriously lose my sh*t if they replaced classes, with stuff from Unchained.

Good way or bad way?


Yeah, I thought the accuracy increase would be pretty sweet, and like Shisumo said they removed the clause where you gain only your full Str bonus on a flurry, so 2-handers have that going for them.

christos gurd wrote:
New flurry is only two additional attacks total, but have no penalty and use whatever the classes bab(in the case of the UNC monk, full) is. These extra attacks stack with extra attacks from other sources like haste or twf.

I was hoping TWF would work but one of the devs said it does not. Ah well.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
B. A. Robards-Debardot wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

I would seriously lose my sh*t if they replaced classes, with stuff from Unchained.

Good way or bad way?

All bad.

If something was allowed, without taking something away, then I would be fine.

Especially for Rogues.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
B. A. Robards-Debardot wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

I would seriously lose my sh*t if they replaced classes, with stuff from Unchained.

Good way or bad way?

All bad.

If something was allowed, without taking something away, then I would be fine.

Especially for Rogues.

Considering they apparently didn't take a single thing away from the rogue and just added additional stuff, the rogue is likely the one example from the bunch that would be the best to replace.

Barbarian was modified quite a bit, so there would be backlash.
Monk would ruin a large amount of archetypes, so there would be backlash.
Summoner was nerf'd, so there will be backlash.


That's why I think there will be a grandfathering. Get your pre-nerfed concepts in while you can.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I don't really give a crap if they grandfather.

I am against removing options.

Not everyone is going to be cool with the changes.

I have a number of concepts, that don't need to be mushroom stamped into oblivion.


Katydid wrote:

Yeah, I thought the accuracy increase would be pretty sweet, and like Shisumo said they removed the clause where you gain only your full Str bonus on a flurry, so 2-handers have that going for them.

christos gurd wrote:
New flurry is only two additional attacks total, but have no penalty and use whatever the classes bab(in the case of the UNC monk, full) is. These extra attacks stack with extra attacks from other sources like haste or twf.
I was hoping TWF would work but one of the devs said it does not. Ah well.

well that sucks, but looking over the style strikes and ki powers, maybe its for the best. UNC monks can really make that last iterative hit if they want too.


The PFS leadership has been more than vocal about not liking the original summoner. I will be very surprised if it doesn't get switched out in some way or the other. It's hard to say with the other classes.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

So, is there a list of the classes touched in Unchained?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
So, is there a list of the classes touched in Unchained?

Barbarians, Rogues, Monks, and Summoners are the only classes that got actual write ups. Rogues and Monks got pretty extensively reworked. Barbarians had their rage changed to not alter str and con, instead you get attack/damage bonuses and temp hp, as well as new/buffed rage powers. Summoners got their spell list nerfed, and their eidolans aren't quite as flexible.

There are a bunch of other optional rules systems that have a wide range of effects, but that's it for direct class changes.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

So, Barbarians are no better at strength checks to break things during Rage?

No thank you.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

So, Barbarians are no better at strength checks to break things during Rage?

No thank you.

But if you do it the new way you don't have to worry about having to figure out how to divide your stat increase by 2 to figure out your bonus! Just think of how much easier THAT is... :P

Now temp HP is interesting.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Doesn't the increase in Con already handle that?

Especially with Raging Vitality.

Shadow Lodge

The damage bonus while two-handing actually is a bit of a pain to figure out - though not that much of a pain.

If they get a morale bonus to attack and damage instead of to stats, Heroism becomes less useful with rage because of stacking rules, and that's unfortunate.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

As long as it's an option, and not a replacement, I am fine.


Pretty sure... it won't change warpriest at all.

Unless your in a game where the GM uses Unchained. In which case it's up to them which Monk to use for that warpriest.

As far as Im aware this isn't changing PFS, so it wouldn't alter things there.

Scarab Sages

Weirdo wrote:

The damage bonus while two-handing actually is a bit of a pain to figure out - though not that much of a pain.

If they get a morale bonus to attack and damage instead of to stats, Heroism becomes less useful with rage because of stacking rules, and that's unfortunate.

I've read that it's an untyped bonus. So no two handing bonus but it does work with heroism or even rage (the spell). You can even be a Dex Barbarian now (without going Urban).

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

As long as it doesn't replace.


Well to be fair, once they release a "new" anything it replaces the previous one. Juju oracle would be a prime example.

I am curious to see what will happen in PFS though for that reason.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, I don't need a new Barbarian.

It works just fine, the way it is.

My Breaker Barbarian doesn't need to have a harder time breaking things.


From what I'm told by someone with the book, Rage still actually increases Strength, it just doesn't increase Con because they don't want you to have such wildly fluctuating HP and potentially die at the end of the Rage, so you get Temporary HP instead. They also fixed a lot of garbage rage powers to the degree that there might not be a set of rage powers that 100% of barbarians need to take anymore (i.e. Superstition -> Witch Hunter -> Spell Sunder, Beast Totem for Pounce, and Come and Get Me).

Rogue is basically better in every way, as is Monk. Summoner got nerfed.

I was told backwards compatibility is pretty good, with explicit descriptions of what older talents/rage powers/etc. work and which ones are replaced, etc. The only thing that might harm archetype access is, for example, the fact that a Rogue's "Trap Sense" (which was the most common feature they traded in archetypes) was replaced with a similar ability called "Danger Sense." In a home game, most GMs, I imagine, would simply continue allowing the swap, but for something like PFS, you'll need to wait for a FAQ clarification or whatever.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

What of Barbarians with abilities based off of Con?

What of Fortitude Saves?

What if someone doesn't want to buy Unchained, or use anything in it, but still wants to use the material they have?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
What if someone doesn't want to buy Unchained, or use anything in it, but still wants to use the material they have?

Then ... they don't have to buy unchained or use anything in it????

Dude, calm down.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Maybe some are just spreading rumors, to get others heated.

I feel like I have been duped.

Unless, of course, some of it is true....


3 people marked this as a favorite.
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Maybe some are just spreading rumors, to get others heated.

I feel like I have been duped.

Unless, of course, some of it is true....

I am picking up two themes in your responses to unchained threads (and I genuinely hope I am wrong as you are generally reasonable):

1) Nobody discuss material I don't have access to! How dare you!?

2) Every change defaults to bad! Nothing can change, you can only add to something, never subtract!

And yeah, that's just crazy. It's the latter attitude that's kept us mired in legacy baggage. Let it go so the game can advance and grow.

And maybe either stop being such an alarmist or stop posting in unchaimed threads until you have access to the material.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
mplindustries wrote:
From what I'm told by someone with the book, Rage still actually increases Strength,

Not true. Rage dos not change any ability score anymore. You get bonuses to attack (melee only), damage (melee and thrown only), Will saves and temp hit points, along with a -2 to AC.

mplindustries wrote:
Rogue is basically better in every way, as is Monk.

Also technically untrue, as monks did lose their good Will save. I have seen varying levels of concern or disappointment over this fact.

mplindustries wrote:
The only thing that might harm archetype access is, for example, the fact that a Rogue's "Trap Sense" (which was the most common feature they traded in archetypes) was replaced with a similar ability called "Danger Sense." In a home game, most GMs, I imagine, would simply continue allowing the swap, but for something like PFS, you'll need to wait for a FAQ clarification or whatever.

Fortunately not an issue. Danger sense specifically notes in its own text that it should be considered trap sense for prereqs or archetypes that are concerned with it. (This is the case for both the barbarian and rogue versions.)


I'm not sure how to feel about the monk changes I've seen so far.
The loss of the good Will save hurts a bit.

Community Manager

Removed a post. Please be civil, thanks!


Havn't seen the new monk yet and the changes (if any) to Flurry of Blows. Though I'm pretty sure Sacred Fist still refers to Core and not Unchained monk. Worth noting: Sacred Fist isn't called out to have an effective monk level in regards to Flurry of Blows.


Rub-Eta wrote:
Havn't seen the new monk yet and the changes (if any) to Flurry of Blows. Though I'm pretty sure Sacred Fist still refers to Core and not Unchained monk. Worth noting: Sacred Fist isn't called out to have an effective monk level in regards to Flurry of Blows.

Sacred Fist Flurry

At 1st level, a sacred fist can make a flurry of blows attack as a full-attack action. This ability works like the monk ability of the same name

Monks Flurry
Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action.

When doing so, he may make one additional attack, taking a –2 penalty on all of his attack rolls, as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. These attacks can be any combination of unarmed strikes and attacks with a monk special weapon (he does not need to use two weapons to utilize this ability).

For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.

Question
My search fu is failing me, but I could've sworn there was a provision that allowed acquired abilities to work off the class using them. Otherwise many archetypes and even some class abilities don't outright work at all.

Is it really commonly accepted that the sacred fist uses monk level 0 when flurrying? That's no attacks. None. Is the community truly that obtuse?

If that's true then the sacred fist's flurry should be changed to unchained. Then you get a bonus attack each round without having to recalculate anything. Just my 2 copper.


I'm pretty sure that omission is an error, but assuming it is intentional, you would get the one extra attack, as sacred fist already gives you flurry at first level, which would override the level at which monks get it. And your monk flurry BAB stacks with BAB of other classes, so you would be flurrying at your base BAB.

So the RAW sacred fist flurries at his BAB and only ever gets one more attack from it. Again, this is almost certainly an oversight, and I would expect many GMs to rule the other way. The ACG is full of errors like this.

Contributor

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Well, I don't need a new Barbarian.

It works just fine, the way it is.

My Breaker Barbarian doesn't need to have a harder time breaking things.

It would appear that the PDT agrees with you. The Unchained Barbarian has a good number of all-new rage powers in addition to updated versions of the Core Classics. These include smasher, which allows the barbarian to ignore 1 point of an object's hardness per level when she makes a sunder maneuver or an attack against an object, and strength stance, which gives a scaling competence bonus to CMD and a +8 competence bonus on Strength checks to life, push, bend, or break objects.

1 to 50 of 58 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / How will the Sacred Fist Warpriest's flurry function with Unchained? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.