APG Dhampir - Ancestry or Heritage?


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Wasn’t sure if they were confirmed to work like Tieflings and Aasimar will (as universal Heritages) or not.


Definitely heritage. But I am just speculating.


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John Lynch 106 wrote:
Definitely heritage. But I am just speculating.

:'D Then don't say definitely! xD I get what you mean, and if Aasimar and tieflings are, then I also think duskwalkers and dhampir will be.

Silver Crusade

Pretty sure it and Changelings will be Heritages.


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If Dhampirs are a heritage and not an ancestry, I'd hope that each type of Vampire parentage was still represented by its own heritage rather than just one. I think this is a good opportunity to further differentiate the different types of Dhampir. It never made much sense in PF1 that Ru-Shi would develop a taste for blood, when their parent fed exclusively off of Ki.

Radiant Oath

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I suspect there'll be a 1st-level feat similar to Elf Atavism so you can select which type of dhampir your character is.


I think that idea of one heritage per kind of dhampir is good, with a shared feat list among all of them. And an “ancestor-atavism” feat all of the “template” heritages can share to let you get a heritage from either the base ancestry or possibly even another template heritage, so you can have half-elf/half-human tiefling, an aasimar-dhampir or even a tiefling-aasimar.

The Exchange

Its a curse that can affect all races? Heritage.

A total different species with its own peculiar biology that behave in a certain way? Ancestry.

Silver Crusade

Most likely Dhampir will be the Heritage and Svetocher will be an Ancestry Feat if i were to guess.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
I suspect there'll be a 1st-level feat similar to Elf Atavism so you can select which type of dhampir your character is.

Betcha they get something like Elf Atavism/Orc Sight, where if you want to lean into their supernatural stuff, you need to pick it at level 1- and if you don't, you're more human/elven/dwarven/goblin than Dhampir.

Which is actually a neat thing to be able to do.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I've been wondering about this in general, Aasimar and Tieflings seem like Heritages for sure, Duskwalkers are planar scions as well, but Dhampir and Changelings could go either way- in Dhampir's case it feels like the heritage would be apropo so we can have "Elf Vampire" type characters and such- there's a second parent called out in the Bestiary entry.

But then, look at Changeling as well- it states that they're deposited in their father's society to be raised, again, it feels like that father could be a dwarf, or an elf, but there is a human specific grudge set up. I'm also leaning back and forth on how much access they would have to their father's racial ancestry feats.

Orcs and Tengu are un-ambiguously ancestries of course. But I'll be surprised if the rest are mostly just heritages ala half-elf/half/orc. Then again, that might be the best way to go to offer players the maximum amount of customization.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

From the Bestiary, I would guess that Changeling and Dhampir are both heritages because they both have the "human" keyword.

Contributor

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David knott 242 wrote:

From the Bestiary, I would guess that Changeling and Dhampir are both heritages because they both have the "human" keyword.

This was my guess too. All the planar scions we've seen (as well as the dhampirs and changelings) are designed in a way that implies they're a heritage, rather than a separate ancestry.

Which is good!


Cole Deschain wrote:
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
I suspect there'll be a 1st-level feat similar to Elf Atavism so you can select which type of dhampir your character is.

Betcha they get something like Elf Atavism/Orc Sight, where if you want to lean into their supernatural stuff, you need to pick it at level 1- and if you don't, you're more human/elven/dwarven/goblin than Dhampir.

Which is actually a neat thing to be able to do.

I dig that idea as well, particularly if you can go really deep into vampiric/fiendish/celestial/whatever supernatural abilities, perhaps with a slight weakness later on.

Dark Archive

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Dhampir is almost definitely a heritage, as Linneus in the Geek and Sundry Knights of Everflame is an elven dhampir.


Narxiso wrote:
Dhampir is almost definitely a heritage, as Linneus in the Geek and Sundry Knights of Everflame is an elven dhampir.

That settles it!

Have we seen any mechanics from that at all?

Dark Archive

keftiu wrote:
Narxiso wrote:
Dhampir is almost definitely a heritage, as Linneus in the Geek and Sundry Knights of Everflame is an elven dhampir.

That settles it!

Have we seen any mechanics from that at all?

The only thing I can think of that has been mentioned is weakness to fire.

Silver Crusade

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Narxiso wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Narxiso wrote:
Dhampir is almost definitely a heritage, as Linneus in the Geek and Sundry Knights of Everflame is an elven dhampir.

That settles it!

Have we seen any mechanics from that at all?

The only thing I can think of that has been mentioned is weakness to fire.

Like most sane creatures :3


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
David knott 242 wrote:

From the Bestiary, I would guess that Changeling and Dhampir are both heritages because they both have the "human" keyword.

If you look up each as a type (Dhampir/Changeling) they both note that they are the "offspring on X and another ancestry" that phrasing confirms it for me that they'll both work in such a way that they blend with other ancestries, or in other words, a universal heritage.


I wonder if you could have a heritage add an ability flaw/extra ability boost, and how you would handle that with ancestries that are already +2/+2/-2. Could a heritage just overwrite the ability flaws/bonuses of the base ancestry?


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
I wonder if you could have a heritage add an ability flaw/extra ability boost, and how you would handle that with ancestries that are already +2/+2/-2. Could a heritage just overwrite the ability flaws/bonuses of the base ancestry?

My guess is that heritages generally won't affect ability scores. The full rules for ability bonuses and flaws make it easy enough to overcome them that there is really no point in having heritages introduce further complications. Think of it as taking the change that PF1 made to half-orc ability modifiers and applying it more generally.


I'm more curious that if dhampir/changeling/tiefling/aasimar are heritages and they get Ancestry feats to make them more like the sub-races they descend from, will we see those feats before actually seeing the creature that they come from in the bestiaries?

Some of the sidebars in the PF2 books already hint at stuff we know exists from PF1 but that haven't been officially given stats in PF2 yet, so might we see an extension of that such as feats for nosferatu, jiang-shi and vetala created dhampir with a side bar telling about those vampires before they even appear in a bestiary?


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David knott 242 wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I wonder if you could have a heritage add an ability flaw/extra ability boost, and how you would handle that with ancestries that are already +2/+2/-2. Could a heritage just overwrite the ability flaws/bonuses of the base ancestry?

My guess is that heritages generally won't affect ability scores. The full rules for ability bonuses and flaws make it easy enough to overcome them that there is really no point in having heritages introduce further complications. Think of it as taking the change that PF1 made to half-orc ability modifiers and applying it more generally.

I'm going to miss all the changeling, aasimar, tiefling, dhampir, etc. types having different stat mods. I kind of liked the "changelings tend to have a con flaw", "tieflings tend to have a cha flaw", etc. I may have to houserule something here.

Silver Crusade

PossibleCabbage wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I wonder if you could have a heritage add an ability flaw/extra ability boost, and how you would handle that with ancestries that are already +2/+2/-2. Could a heritage just overwrite the ability flaws/bonuses of the base ancestry?

My guess is that heritages generally won't affect ability scores. The full rules for ability bonuses and flaws make it easy enough to overcome them that there is really no point in having heritages introduce further complications. Think of it as taking the change that PF1 made to half-orc ability modifiers and applying it more generally.

I'm going to miss all the changeling, aasimar, tiefling, dhampir, etc. types having different stat mods. I kind of liked the "changelings tend to have a con flaw", "tieflings tend to have a cha flaw", etc. I may have to houserule something here.

What about the flaw system?


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Rysky wrote:
What about the flaw system?

Well, the optional flaw system requires you to take two flaws, and I might just want one.

Like I might do something a la: "An slag may changeling may trade one free bonus and take a flaw in constitution to gain a bonus to charisma and strength" which works out fine with humans, but I'm not sure how to make it work with other ancestries.

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