You want to "Respect tradition"? Alright, so, play a fighter until 9th level, then, at 10th level if you're lawful good and have 17 charisma, 12 wisdom, and 14 constitution, you can be a paladin. Congrats, you now can now cast spells as a cleric 1/3 your level, and cast "Detect Evil" at will.
Paizo are aware of the cultural fad RPGs currently are, and they know that their game has a reputation for being complex and mechanically heavy. They already have your money, now they want some of that Crit-Role fan money.
There's a forum lingo thread somewhere around here.
I tend to use demons more, they're easier to fit into the shadowy places of the world that your players might stumble into. I've never actually used a dragon in combat, they've always been more of a set piece. A symbol of power that humbles the players and reminds them of their place in the gameworld, and their potential for growth. Demon, on the other hand, to me just means "Being from another plane who is either objectively evil, or whose intentions are so alien that they can only be perceived as evil." and as such are a much more versatile creature. But I can see how they seem stale to those who stick to the Pathfinder lore and cosmology.
Don't talk to me like I wasn't there, rolling 1 on a d4 for hit die, rolling protection from evil, hold portal and affect normal fires as the only spells in my spellbook. I did my time.
Off topic, but I'm personally tired of the trope that mages are completely inept in non magical combat. Also, has anyone else noticed that the Wizard is limited to 5 weapon proficiencies while the other 3 full casting arcane classes have full proficiency with simple weapons? That's bullshit.
I'd argue that she has one level in Commoner and one level in Aristocrat. The first level gained being a housemaid and the second level gained watching her deplorable family act courtly and posh. She never really does anything when you think about it, making me think that she's extremely mundane and low level as a character.
I would dislike seeing a reprint of spells from Pathfinder. In fact, I'd dislike seeing vancian magic make an appearance, but hoping for something else feels foolish. I would very much dislike having to purchase adventure paths to expand on the Core material when it comes to game mechanics, as opposed to having adventure paths and mechanical splat books as separate supplements. Do we know if Starfinder will be a standalone game, or will it require the PF core book? I'm not expecting a whole lot more than a Pathfinderized version of D20 Future and Star Wars revised smashed together withe nice art. Not that I'm notrying excited, I am, I've just seen other D20 sci-fi games...*cough* Traveller 20 *cough* Dawning Star
What if two shallows carried it on a line?
I have very limited patience for players that need extra push and attention to just play the game and stop being deliberately disruptive. Roleplaying your character is one thing, but this is an adventure game, be an adventurer. If your character is the type of person to drag their feet, such as Bilbo Baggins, then work your reluctance towards adventuring into your background, but making your characters motivation thr responsibility of your fellow players is just...annoying
Why do Druids always have to be fancy pants tree huggers? Not that poisoning is a viable druid route, but the Druid class is just a priest that derives it's power from the natural world and shapeshifts, nothing about it dictates personality or bars a character from being conniving. However, I don't think dipping into Alchemist will help you very much, perhaps rebuild as an Alchemist
I can't handle professional gamers. Social hour does not end, the whole game is social hour. It's about kicking back with buds, rolling some dice and playing out fantasies, so I'll throw in quips or jokes when the moment calls for it. I don't support derailing for sport, but I also cannot abide by tables that demand a workplace level of professionalism out of my Pathfinder game.
Ah, yes, I've been wondering about YMMV ...Smurf
Just a couple off the top of my head that you see floating around the boards. Some are more obvious than others. MAD: Multi ability dependent
Edit: Ninja'd by Darrigaaz. Ninja'd: Another poster said what you were going to before you had the chance.
Perhaps let him build a character before telling him what he can't play or how he can play it?
Charisma is more a measure of force of personality than one's comeliness, in fact, it's not a measure of one's attractiveness at all. You could argue that all of the attributes have attractive qualities.
I feel like a first level fighter surrounded by heavyweights. I'm mighty excited for my first season!
Beware, there's a certain personality that is willing to sit at a Pathfinder table, but unwilling to take it remotely seriously. You may find yourself with a group of goofballs eating your food trying to be Sea-Cats or something, wasting your time.
All things said the GM needs to thicken their skin a bit and find a happy median between you feeling held back and their boredom. You should definitely talk about it though, that's the first step. I honestly suggest you try GMing, that might be the feel you want.
I'm bummed that we give these Asian weapons such special treatment and attention and then reduce all other weapons to a generic "Longsword" and "Handaxe" and so forth. If we're gonna get technical why not represent the differences between a Welsh dagger and it's Iranian counterpart? Oh, right, because those were never in anime. If I want a katana I call my scimitar a katana, that's good enough for me. Doesn't have to be for you though.
Galinaar, chill out.
That's just like...your opinion, man.
A witch turned me into a newt.
I'm really interested in joining on as a Gunslinger, though most of the advanced classes don't give the same oomph to BAB and DEF that the heroic classes do. Would you be interested in letting us take one level of a Heroic class prior to our level of advanced class? Just to keep us in line with what the game generally expects?
I've never had a thread make me cringe before today, and I'm so over the Charisma debate, everything about this is gross.
If you're going for functionality essentially anything that can patch it's own wounds after combat is viable as a group. I think Rangers could be really fun.
@Glass, Fighters at least slowly amassed multiple attacks per round back in the day (Pre WOTC) So, the answer to my question is yes, iterative attacks are part of what a large amount of people expected when they picked up Pathfinder for the first time and would have been missed dearly had the game been written without them.
One's occupation itself does not directly grant you spells. Access to magic is generally circumstantial and linked to individual aptitude and magical talent. For example a priest of moderate prestige of a god of labor and toil may have no spellcasting ability, whereas the local baker's daughter who unknowingly exemplifies the teachings/ideals of that same deity inexplicably develops some magical power. I don't mean to imply that it is easier to accidentally receive divine power, that was just one example. Not all wizards have beards, not all fighters wear platemail, not all dragons hoard treasure, some white people can dance, and not all priests cast spells. This whole reliance on magical healing frightens me. I feel like Golarion will never develop medical science if magic gets tossed around every time someone gets a sprained ankle. Now, that doesn't really matter, but I guess that level of casual magic just rubs me the wrong way. Also, Rynjin, I'd think Bluff or Perform (Oratory) and Knowledge (Religion) cover the skills necessary to be a priest in the real world... In my experience it seems to be more Bluff than anything else. Boom.
You're presenting a clutch option, meaning that unless a class actually needs intelligence to be effective nobody will invest into it. Now, if you don't care, then right on, this is totally a way for physical classes to actually have some skills, but it's kind of unfair to anyone who doesn't choose to do that, namely wizards. Do mages have the option of basing their hit points off of intelligence? Doesn't seem very fair to let fighters have it all and shaft the squishies. If I was an Int based character in this group I would never invest in both Int and Con, since I know I'm not getting the same benefit out of pumping Con that any non Int based character would get. Nobody is attacking you, but this idea seems like an over complicated solution to a simple problem. You want the melee classes to have some more skills? Give them more skill points, bam, done.
Oh, then why is this even a discussion? The Op probably needs to take their leave. This isn't a game of Pathfinder anymore, it's a Mexican soap opera with character sheets.
On a side note, in character, your party members know he's stealing your belongings, and they do nothing? Not even stop him in a preemptive attempt at protecting their own shit? And your character trusts these people with their life? They're asshat bandits, why would you put up with these people if you weren't held together by being player characters? If your "friends" won't settle this with you like adults, and they won't let you settle it like a kid, then you can't win. Either leave the game or accept your flogging.
The "Old School" Game The Gamemaster has been around the block a couple times, dicebag in hand, and she wants you to know how much better it was back then. Characters such as Halfling Druids, Dwarven Wizards, and Half-Orcs as an entire playable race as unwelcome in this style of game. You may also notice that your fifth level character still has nothing to speak of in the way of magical equipment, or even meaningful treasure, despite having been tormented by the most militaristic, overly prepared, tactically gifted kobolds the megaverse has ever seen for three straight sessions. Suggestion: Suck it up? Play a cleric, Old School Gm's have an inexplicable soft spot for cleric players, until they drop the party in a separate dimension and cut you off from your deity entirely for an undefined amount of sessions to come. Also, allow me to bring up Paul from the "He's just a wee lad!" scenario, F*** that guy, the game table is no place for a child (Unless the child is expected, naturally). If you can't manage to get a sitter just sit out for a session, we'll understand, I promise. I don't want to interact with your child more than I absolutely have to (Parents, I'm saying this on behalf of your friends because they're polite and don't know how.)
I smell flame bait.
I love it, the land of Joe would be a fun thing to drop into a post-apoc game, more as a curiosity than anything else.
It's not a ranged concept, but you could run the classic circus strongman! With the big bald head and curly mustache it could be a ton of fun to play a character that wins the day on Bravado and brute strength. A swashbuckling clown could also be an interesting idea, or an Alchemist magician! Ooh, I really dig what you guys are doing here.
I can't remember the last time I played a heal-bag cleric, they're so much more than that. They're a full caster that wears armor! I mean, that right there would sell me, but I get an AOE heal/attack AND 2 domains for even more spells and powers? Wow, that's crazy. I feel like since AD&D clerics have secretly been the most capable class, at least from a versatility standpoint. You can take them in any thematic direction and you're almost always bound to be rewarded. Growth and Travel domains with a level of Barbarian? Hello there large 2nd lv PC with a move speed of 50...
I'm enjoying the way we're tip-toeing through this conversation, there are so ways it could've gone too far.
Ul Skub loads his rifle, having kept quiet for the last few days of travel.. "The front door is a death wish, there has to be another way inside.."
I had this whole catty multi-paragraph comeback all written out, spellchecked and everything...then I saw Chris said to drop it. I'm a sad, argumentative panda... Edit: Stop bashing on 4e, it's deadest horse in the entire land of dead horses. Some of us really enjoyed the system, some of us thought it was nifty that all the classes have the same rough power level, some of us just don't care why you don't like it. If you're not into it, don't play it.
+1 on the Warlord love, I also thought the avenger was pretty cool, but the inquisitor fills that role.
I don't want mages to be an out of the box gish, or come close to dedicated swordsman in terms of melee power, but I do want proficiency with a slightly wider berth of weapons than Staff, Sling, Club, Dagger and Crossbow. However, that universal to-hit progression thing is pretty nifty, that's pretty much exactly what I was going for. An adventuring mage is still an adventurer, and I feel as though adventurers worth their salt can swing a pointy stick to some effect. @Scott Betts, I'm not looking for a gish, man, I just want to be a mage that can attack that guy standing in front of him with a sword, and not get laughed at when he rolls a 19 and still doesn't connect. Initially I wasn't complaining, I was just sayin' "Hey, what if we could assume that adventuring magicians have some competency with weapons, so that the early levels weren't so brutal." And then I got trounced, because the forums are a happy place.
I feel like a lot of these concepts can be produced with the classes we have currently. A few posts back I saw someone call for a 6 level arcane casting, 3/4 BAB, kinda sneaky guy, and his divine counterpart; you're asking for the Bard & Inquisitor. I never played an artificer, so I'm not sure what they do, could someone educate me? Just for the sake of class completion a 4 level arcane caster could be interesting. It could take form as a beefier hexblade, throwing around debuffs like a witch with magus style.
DrDeth is right, I was being a goober. This party definitely has the capability to be awesome. Give them some time to feel out the capabilities of their characters before challenging then too greatly. A few mundane adventures with giant spiders and traps would do them well, I'd think.
Not to mention, Deflect Arrows. If guns were single shot mighty cannons, monks would literally be bulletproof....and any concealment or blurr effects at all would render them completely useless.They could have gone in the diferent direction, making, for example, one shot every 6 second to be something meaninful.I know, right? They were doing so good realism wise, what with the guano and sulphur transforming into a firebomb, guys getting angry enough to grow horns and buying extra lives with a diamond. So sad to see them throw all that realism away by making guns useable. Wait, hold on, bullets aren't arrows. Also, you guys, there was a thread about this last week, I highly recommend it, we had all these arguments already. Oh wait, I forgot, there are 50,000 threads discussing guns being reloaded too quickly, silly me. The argument basically goes like this 1: "Guns reload too quickly"
And then it runs in circles, indefinitely. Have fun, everybody. (Not meant to sound catty, intended with humor)
Peony hangs her head low, sheathing her sword to string up a longbow. She turns to the others with a militant inflection in her voice. "There were three creatures of hobbit stature, though I can declare with certainty that they were not hobbits. They came from the north, and that is where they have gone now. If we move with haste we could catch them." "...A magic ring? How peculiar..suspicious, even."
Peony quickly disregards the gentleman, feeling a bit awkward for being so invasive of his privacy. She follows but a few paces behind Khazak. "I'm sure Khazak filled you in. What's the plan? There's quite a bit of acreage in North farthing.."
Ah, well...you might as well throw a wand at them anyway, paying someone to use it for them doesn't seem unreasonable. Though, they probably wont do that...they'll just kidnap a priest like real bandits.
You're not out of line, but you aren't really being cooperative. You're in a difficult position, resources-wise, and so adopted a "my way or the highway attitude" which is acceptable, sure. I mean, if they wanna be ifrit psions,they can run a game.
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