Not sure why two weapon fighting is one of the best as you can't use two weapon fighting with AoOs.
"Making an Attack of Opportunity: An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and most characters can only make one per round. You don't have to make an attack of opportunity if you don't want to. You make your attack of opportunity at your normal attack bonus, even if you've already attacked in the round."
So while two weapon fighting joined with crit fiend build is amazing, I don't think it's the best with AoOs. A two handed crit fiend build is better in damage.
You missed snake style.
You need to include more Attack of Opportunity Triggers.
There are many ways to trigger AoOs. One is movement. When target moves into one of your melee threaten squares and move out of it, you get one AoOs, after that, they get no more unless you are able to stop his movement there and he decide to make another one. Two ways you can make it happen:
-one is stay far enough and make sure no clear path for the target to charge at you, then when the AoOs got triggered by it's movements, you can pushing assault to make it stay as far away from you as you can while still in your reach. Now if it runs out of movement and decide to make another one, so you are within it's reach, you get the second AoO.-two is use combat maneuvers as your AoOs. If you are able to trip the target, you get another AoOs if it decides to move again. If you have Vicious Stomp, you can make other other AoO but has to be unarmed.
One AoOs per movement unless you have an ability that says otherwise, and no AoOs against charge.
Second is action. If your target stood up from your trip, drinking potion, attack with unarmed strike or ranged weapons without some feats that stop them from triggering AoOs, casting spells that is a standard action or longer, using Spell like abilities, using some skills (not all), Deliver coup de grace, reading scroll... There are so many of them, you have to look it up. However, it doesn't have to be their actions, it can be your actions that cause them to trigger attacks of opportunities. Tripping is the most common and effective way. When one bullrush a target towards his allies and they get AoOs because he took the feat greater bullrush, others can make an AoO against that target. If one of them has greater trip and trip the target instead, everyone gets a AoO again. If another has it, the chains will just keep going until the target dies or the group runs out of AoOs.
The two weapon fighting is one of the best because you get more chances to crit each turn, and each crit provokes an AoO from your entire team. The fiend himself is not the one doing most of the damage, his friends are.Not sure why two weapon fighting is one of the best as you can't use two weapon fighting with AoOs.
So while two weapon fighting joined with crit fiend build is amazing, I don't think it's the best with AoOs. A two handed crit fiend build is better in damage.
Sorry, still don't get how your crit triggers attacks of Opportunities with two weapons fighting.
Add on: I get the idea of more AoOs, more chance to crit, therefore more damage. However, if I have a hand free or using two handed weapon that has just as much crit range(15-20), what is the difference? I don't understand it because you can still only make one melee attack per AoO.
Add add on: I get that opportune parry and riposte means you can just parry and make a AoOs, however, it only works one as it used up your immediate action of the round. Also, can it still work if I just use one light or one handed weapon with nothing on the other hand? Why must it be dual wielded? That's what I don't understand and would love to learn.
Add add add on: I still don't see how you can do this without Tripping Strike and Greater trip. With those two feats then it makes sense, other than that, I'm clueless... =(
Don't forget about the Elven Branched Spear. +2 on AoOs is nothing to sneeze at, and if you have the money to buy an Agile enhancement your reach monster is now dex SAD.
The two weapon fighting is one of the best because you get more chances to crit each turn, and each crit provokes an AoO from your entire team. The fiend himself is not the one doing most of the damage, his friends are.Not sure why two weapon fighting is one of the best as you can't use two weapon fighting with AoOs.
So while two weapon fighting joined with crit fiend build is amazing, I don't think it's the best with AoOs. A two handed crit fiend build is better in damage.
Sorry, still don't get how your crit triggers attacks of Opportunities with two weapons fighting.
Add on: I get the idea of more AoOs, more chance to crit, therefore more damage. However, if I have a hand free or using two handed weapon that has just as much crit range(15-20), what is the difference? I don't understand it because you can still only make one melee attack per AoO.
There is a Feat out there that whenever you score a critical hit, you can forego the extra damage to allow your allies who threaten your target to take an AoO. So, the crit fishing TWF character isn't actually trying to score crits for extra damage; the character is trying to score crits so all his buddies can take free swings at the target.
So, if you're fighting something with three buddies, every crit you score, instead of being double damage with that one attack, results in three extra attacks from your team.
Yes, I realized that. Thank you. However, it wasn't in his guide. And only thing I found was tripping strike with greater trip. So are there anything else out there? I'm still clueless because it wasn't in the guide.
Hrm. It's true that the guide could be more fully explained, rather than just a rating for each Feat, for example. Milking out AoO's isn't something that is a common build, especially since it often involves Teamwork Feats that are generally considered sub-optimal.
Indeed, however, I love a group with all the same class and just work together to AoOs everything. It's much more fun when Mythic got introduced, Combat Reflex, Mythic is awesome! I found working as a team is far more fun than I do my own thing in RPG. Otherwise might just as well play by myself. =)
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A couple things you should look into. Paired Opportunists doesn't work with the Fortuitous weapon enchant. Fortuitous allows you to make a second AoO. Paired Opportunists makes it so that if something provokes for you, it provokes for your allies. But Fortuitous doesn't make anything provoke again--you just get a second hit for something that already provoked.
For a hunter (or any class really, but it works better with a hunter so you don't have to enchant your own weapon with it) throw a Menacing Amulet of Mighty Fists on your companion for a +6 to hit while flanking (+4 from Outflank +2 more from Menacing) for both you and your pet.
Also check out THIS build. I screwed up with some bad advice and don't technically qualify for Pack Flanking as it isn't a combat feat, but the altered Wayang build further in the thread is totally legit. I'm holding my breath that the ACG errata coming out within a month will fix that, though. (I mean seriously, it has a combat feat as a prereq and the whole purpose of the feat deals with flanking and flanking is a combat-only thing. It's totally a combat feat in everything but the label).
I'd also move Pack Flanking to blue for hunters.
(and nigh useless for everyone else unless you
1) use a horsemaster's saddle
2) use a Hand of Glory slotted with a Ring of Tactical Precision (costs 20k combined for both and there are much better uses for that ring)
3) be a cavalier and take it as one of your Tactician feats and then share it with all allies (so that would include your pet) within range. Any archetypes that pretend to be cavaliers (with regard to tactician) for any other class would obviously work, too.)
I'm sure I'm missing some, but those are what I can think of offhand.
Also I'm not sure where you got your info on Seize the Moment (don't get me wrong, I think you rated it well based on how late you can get it and how useful it is vs other feats that you can get even earlier). It doesn't have three feats as prereqs and it doesn't require worshiping Desna.
You and your allies are poised to pounce whenever one of
you scores a telling blow.
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical.
Benefit: When an ally who also has this feat confirms a
critical hit against an opponent that you also threaten, you
can make an attack of opportunity against that opponent.
So what's really holding it back is the necessity for Improved Critical. I'm guessing you're just working off an outdated version of the feat.
And like others have mentioned, you placed too great an emphasis on Two-Weapon Fighting without going into detail on why it's so good. Likewise, you placed way too great an emphasis on wakizashis which are exotic weapons when a scimitar/rapier which are just martial weapons work amazingly well and you can spare a bunch of feats that you'd rather spend on teamwork feats on actual teamwork feats instead of weapon proficiency and two-weapon fighting feats and just put a shield in your other hand.
Sorry, still don't get how your crit triggers attacks of Opportunities with two weapons fighting.The way it works is that you have a friend with the Outflank feat. Thus, whenever you and your friend flank a target, each time you crit you provoke an AoO from your friend. If you pair that with the paladin aura granting Paired Opportunists, it becomes an AoO for your entire team including yourself.
Add on: Greater Trip/Overrun/Bull Rush etc is a great way to get more of them, and I strongly recommend it, it just isn't featured in that particular build.
Great! Now I sort of get it! If you can put those example in the guide it would be great! Because AoOs sometimes is hard to understand.
Dot
I was wondering for a while, what animal companion or eidolon would be best for a crit-fishing ally. Both could get some weapon proficiency through feats/evolutions, but the invest is heavy.
Yet a Holy Tactician VMC Summoner with an Angel eidolon carrying a Scimitar sounds appealing.
Eldritch guardian Fighter with Mauler Familar might work, too.
|
|
Why do you rate Seize the Moment so low when it work wondrous with outflank since both are separate trigger like how Vicious Stomp and Greater Trip work.
Let's say your ally score a crits.
Seize the Moment let you makes an AoO with not mentioned of enemy provoking, so your ally attack is the trigger.
Outflank makes the enemy provokes after getting hit by crits from your ally so the enemy itself is the trigger.
Because Seize the Moment requires both Improved Critical and BaB +8. There are feats you can get that do almost the exact same thing but you can get them way earlier. So why pick that when you can pick a near exact feat that you're going to get anyway for an AoO build that you get earlier?
|
|
It's also not really clear whether both Seize the Moment and Outflank can trigger off the same crit. "Confirm a critical" and "score a critical" are the same triggering event.
Relevant FAQ LINK
Critical Hits: Is there a difference between "scoring a critical hit" and "confirming a critical hit"?
No, they mean the same thing. However, the preferred rules language is "confirming a critical hit." (Similarly, the preferred rules language for a rolling a critical threat is "threatening a critical hit").
That being said, I'm not sure where you're confusion is about Outflank + Seize the Moment.
The way it works is this. You and I are flanking. We both have both feats. I attack and crit. Via Outflank you get an AoO. Because we have Seize the Moment and you got an AoO, now I also get an AoO. If either of us crit on our AoOs, then we continue to get more AoOs because the crit causes the monster to provoke again. This lasts until either one of us doesn't crit or we run out of available AoOs we can make.
Something else that I've just been taught (I think it was you Markov) is a Bard with Battle Song of the People's Revolt to give your entire party Paired Opportunist.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Something else that I've just been taught (I think it was you Markov) is a Bard with Battle Song of the People's Revolt to give your entire party Paired Opportunist.Thanks for the tip, added that into the guide with credit to you :)
You don't need to actually perform using the skill (or the instrument) to use the Masterpiece. The Dawnflower Dervish Bard mixes well with this allowing you to get DEX to damage and to hit at level 1 and add twice your Inspire Courage to attack and damage if you only use it for yourself, and access to at potential 15-20 crit range weapon helping out with Outflank. Add the Bodyguard feat and any time a party member gets attacked and they all get AoO's, assuming you're using the Battle Song.
There's a FAQ that says confirming a critical hit and getting a critical hit are the same thing. People have applied that to Attacks of Opportunity. I agree though it is an "Ask your GM" thing.
|
|
Because we have Seize the Moment and you got an AoO, now I also get an AoO.That's not what Seize the Moment does, I think you're thinking of Paired Opportunists? Seize the Moment give you an AoO when an ally confirms a critical hit.
Outflank gives you an AoO when an ally "scores" a critical hit.I was saying you can't (or at least it's very questionable) get two AoOs when an ally scores a critical hit because the same action is triggering it. Unlike Vicious Stomp and Greater Trip, where there are two separate triggers.
You're right, I was misremembering and thinking of Paired Opportunists.
Panther Style.
If you are going to have a section for style feats it seems like an oversight to leave one of the best styles for AoOs off the list.
Besides combat reflexes is there a way to increase the total number of available AoOs a round?
|
|
Besides combat reflexes is there a way to increase the total number of available AoOs a round?
Specific classes/archetypes can such as a kensai magus. But for any generic character no.
Superior Reflexes (Ex)At 11th level, kensai can make a number of attacks of opportunity in a round equal to his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). This effect stacks with the Combat Reflexes feat.
This ability replaces improved spell recall.
Yeah building a ripost/parry based swashbuckler and was looking for a few more AoOs a round. Figured the "guide to AoOs" would be the place to look!
|
|
I'm curious if you looked at the build I posted further up thread (LINK again). Any thoughts you've got on/about it?