Introducing the New Paizo Store!

So first off, the site looks fantastic, but I do have one concern. Since data can't be transferred for purchases (which probably isn't a big deal since no money is going to be lost), will data also be lost if/when the society play side of things (hopefully) gets updated? Losing all THAT data would be a disaster.

We don't have any changes to the My Organized Play portal in your current Paizo account. As we've done with the store, we'll keep everyone up to date on what's in store for PFS/SFS. And by "we" I mean Alex. :-)

-Jim

Well. The new store looks really cool, and the site could really use an update. Being able to actually find stuff like the Foundry VTT content without all the backwards ways I was doing would be nice.

That said. The pricing of modules no longer including the PDF, and no longer giving a discount if you own the PDF already not...

Given how things are going with the economy, pay.. stuff, and this? I will have to rethink being able to purchase adventure paths for my party at all. We're primarily in Foundry VTT, but I also need the PDFs to refer to. The journals in Foundry are great for what they are, but they're not easily read through and referenced in quite the same way as a PDF, especially when preparing ahead of time.

Having the Foundry modules at or near their current full price and also needing to purchase the PDF separately in order to have both will make buying APs financially unfeasible for the foreseeable future.

We will still be hoping to continue doing so, but this will negatively impact how often and how many we can pick up.

Moon_Goddess wrote:

So what happens to preorders we've already made, I ordered Starfinder Alien Core retailer cover back in May, Subscriptions don't have the option for the retailer cover, so that isn't an option there.

Also have Monster Match out there preordered,

Preorders will not be carried over to the new store, so you'll need to preorder on the new store after it launches.

-Jim

That is very annoying.

For those at Paizo who are keeping track: I will be reviewing my subscriptions, and most likely canceling some of them. The APs and Adventures are first on the chopping block, and maybe the Maps as well. This is directly because of the new rules around Foundry.

Will I stop buying completely? No. But I’ll certainly be buying less. Subscriptions have pushed me into picking up things I would never have bought on my own—the new Game Night box set, for example, or the Gatewalker book. And when it comes to APs, I’ll be a lot more selective. I can say with certainty I would never have purchased Revenge of the Runelords if not for the subscription.

I realize I’m a small fish in a big pond, but Paizo should understand this is how their handling of Foundry is affecting customers like me. I’ve heard the line that “it” will be “addressed” after the bugs are worked out of the new store software—but frankly, that feels like kicking the can down the road. I’ll reassess my subscriptions when (and if) that ever actually happens, but I’m not holding my breath.

OceanshieldwolPF 2.5 wrote:

Will Product Discussion threads disappear?

The forum discussion for products will disappear from the product detail page. Those historical pages will still be present in the forums, however.

-Jim

Damn - that's unfortunate. It was a really good place to engage with devs... :(

Will the My Digital Orders page be easier to navigate?

Cthoodles wrote:

What exactly is stopping you from continuing to offer the discounted PDF + Module bundles?

Limited support for bundling products (and for digital products in particular). That's pretty much it. Is it something we can figure out a solution for in the future? I sure hope so, and have reason to believe we can. It just wasn't an issue we could justify holding up the long, long-awaited initial launch of the store for.

The issue, which I wish to point out before it get lost is that this "bundling" of the products was at least for me a core feature of your store, that you have decided to launch your new store without this core feature is disheartening and that from my point of the view the opening of the new store will accompanied by a 15 dollar hike on product I engaged with does leave a significant bitter taste.

Nevertheless, that you were open about this change honors you and I thank you for it. It sadly does not change the situation and so will wait for your offered solution to the issue before to be implemented before engaging with pdfs again once the new store is on.

So, there is a book I still have not been sent on a subscription for almost two years ongoing now. It had the Core Rulebook with it and it is out of print. They tried to take away the Core Rulebook on the order, but it still has not sent the original book from the subscription.

Is this just elemenated now and the money refunded. I have already been charged for the book and it is supposed to be going to the next stage of getting the PDF and being sent.

I always buy the PDF first and if I like it, I buy the foundry code. This has been a great way for me to support Paizo on my budget and being outside the US.

Jim Butler wrote:

OceanshieldwolPF 2.5 wrote:

Will Product Discussion threads disappear?

The forum discussion for products will disappear from the product detail page. Those historical pages will still be present in the forums, however.

-Jim

Damn - that's unfortunate. It was a really good place to engage with devs... :(

I agree with this completely, I couldn't have said it better myself.

I will say that as much of a bummer as it is that we have to see it in the context of a purchase option that we've (temporarily, I hope) had to remove, I really appreciate all of the feedback we're getting here about how people utilize and interact with our PDFs, Foundry VTT modules, or both. Historically, our only answers to questions like "Do people consider the Foundry discount granted by the free PDFs they get through their AP subscriptions a meaningful part of that subscription's value?" or "Does having the cost of a PDF essentially count toward the cost of its Foundry module actually drive PDF sales as a 'try-before-you-buy' option for people considering running the adventure on Foundry?" has been a resounding "I dunno, maybe?", so it's been really interesting to see some of those things being confirmed here, even anecdotally. Our options for what to do with that feedback are a little limited right now, but please feel free to continue providing it, and we'll definitely keep it in mind when we're considering future options!

our only answers to questions like "Do people consider the Foundry discount granted by the free PDFs they get through their AP subscriptions a meaningful part of that subscription's value?" or "Does having the cost of a PDF essentially count toward the cost of its Foundry module actually drive PDF sales as a 'try-before-you-buy' option for people considering running the adventure on Foundry?"

I would suggest that you were not asking the right people. :D Some pretty vocal people around here.

Since you said you were having trouble getting answers on how PDFs and Foundry fit together, here’s my take—just me, not speaking for anyone else.

For me, the Foundry “discount” is what made subscribing work. I don’t need the physical stuff—I’ve got a pile of those cardboard mailers sitting unopened in a tote in my workroom. What I wanted was the PDF early. Yeah, I paid a little extra, but it was worth it to have the PDF at shipping time. And if I ended up running the adventure, I could grab the Foundry module (which, honestly, have been really well done) at a discount. That combo made subscribing feel like a no-brainer.

Now? The cost has gone up. From what I can see, the Foundry store prices are higher than the $15 number someone threw out—closer to what the old bundles used to be. That makes it a lot less appealing. At this point I’m better off just buying the specific things I want. The “subscribe to everything” option just isn’t there for me anymore, which is pretty disappointing.

1) I feel like I am missing something. I understand why the PDF ownership (as listed) will not allow the foundry discount due to technological limitations. But why does purchasing the Foundry module and including the PDF in the purchase become an issue? Or is that not a technology problem?

2) trying to be solutions focused - what about having a discount code that is generated on PDF purchase, that provides a discount on the module (one-time-use, either personalized into the PDF or delivered separately at the same time). That would let anyone who buys the PDF provide 'proof of purchase' to get the module - and if the same PDF, for the same person, always generates the same code (that is invalidated upon use), that also limits it to 1:1 (using either the same or a very similar process to the current personalization process)

The 7-day window for pre-orders feels very strange to me. I'm a more occasional fan these days, there's not a whole lot coming out for us 1e grognards. So hearing about something interesting coming out and pre-ordering it so I don't forget is a natural process (c.f. novels as mentioned before). Certainly, I can still buy it *later*, but any pre-launch excitement/advertising is lost on me if I can't lock in a purchase.

The discount removal matches the same change on Roll20 about a year ago, for what it's worth.

Very very very glad to hear that nothing is happening to the forums (and order histories).

I'll throw my 5c in here: My group has recently gone from 1e to 2e, and we're also embracing a hybrid in-person/VTT playstyle. One of the big sells for that was being able to buy the PDF, then get the Foundry module for a great price as well. No Foundry discount is going to be pretty disappointing

I like the look of the new store. Most of the changes don't affect me and my purchases.

I am disappointed, and frankly don't understand, the lack of a links to the product reviews and forum pages. With the new Paizo system that rewards reviewing products I just don't understand why those reviews would not be linked predominately to a products page. Not having a forum page dedicated to a product linked on the products page (if not included on a products page as it is now) is a giant step backwards. Since I have a general idea what a product is before I go to its product page, I actually look at the comments before I read the product description.

Thanks for listening.

Yep, I'll add in my .02 also. I've recently had to cancel my subscriptions due to not needing the physical product any more...and now having to buy both the pdf and the foundry module make me reconsider things even more. Hopefully there's some new solution soon, or there's some way to at least bundle the foundry module with the pdf...

Adding my name to the list of people who will be re-evaluating, and likely cancelling, some of my subscriptions due to the changes to Foundry pricing.

New store is coming in this quarter or we are expecting somewhere beginning of the next year?

So, might it be possible then to pay with something else then credit cardx? For example PayPal? This would be huge for me!

I like the look of the new store. Most of the changes don't affect me and my purchases.

I am disappointed, and frankly don't understand, the lack of a links to the product reviews and forum pages. With the new Paizo system that rewards reviewing products I just don't understand why those reviews would not be linked predominately to a products page. Not having a forum page dedicated to a product linked on the products page (if not included on a products page as it is now) is a giant step backwards. Since I have a general idea what a product is before I go to its product page, I actually look at the comments before I read the product description.

Thanks for listening.

Reviews will be present on each product page, but existing reviews won't be transferred to the new store. We can also add links from each product page to the forums for people to discuss the products, but they won't be embedded on the page like they are today.

-Jim

So, might it be possible then to pay with something else then credit cardx? For example PayPal? This would be huge for me!

We will be expanding payment methods with the new store. Here are a few that we are targeting for launch.

Credit Cards: American Express, Aura, Diners Club, Discover, ELO, Hipercard, JCB, Mada, Mastercard, RuPay (India), UnionPay, Visa.

Digital Wallets: Apple Pay, Google Pay, PayPal.

Online Bank Transfers: Sofort

Some of these payment methods are region specific (like Hipercard for Brazil or RuPay for India), so you won’t be flooded with options when you checkout. Not all payment methods can be used for subscription payments because some providers don’t allow recurring payments, but you’ll see available options as you go through checkout for subscriptions.

-Jim

Reviews will be present on each product page, but existing reviews won't be transferred to the new store.

Looking at the picture of the product page, I didn't see reviews. This is good news.

We can also add links from each product page to the forums for people to discuss the products, but they won't be embedded on the page like they are today.

-Jim

Thanks! That would be just fine.

Very excited for all these changes. Keep 'em comin'!

We don't charge for preorders until the product ships, so you won't have to worry about any refunds or prepayment issues.

-Jim

I used a bunch of gift certificates for my preorder. How will that be handled? I'm happy to message customer service, but I don't want to lose that credit.

Jim Butler wrote:

We don't charge for preorders until the product ships, so you won't have to worry about any refunds or prepayment issues.

-Jim

I used a bunch of gift certificates for my preorder. How will that be handled? I'm happy to message customer service, but I don't want to lose that credit.

Your gift certificates will transfer over to the new store. Those should be copied over to the new store if they are never used, but if you don't see them after the new store launches please reach out to the CS team and they'll track them down and add them back to your account.

-Jim

Yea, I will have to reconsider my AP subscription if that is the way it is going to work now. Or stop buying the Foundry modules. I definitely won't be paying twice for the PDF.

Swiftbrook wrote:

I like the look of the new store. Most of the changes don't affect me and my purchases.

I am disappointed, and frankly don't understand, the lack of a links to the product reviews and forum pages. With the new Paizo system that rewards reviewing products I just don't understand why those reviews would not be linked predominately to a products page. Not having a forum page dedicated to a product linked on the products page (if not included on a products page as it is now) is a giant step backwards. Since I have a general idea what a product is before I go to its product page, I actually look at the comments before I read the product description.

Thanks for listening.

Reviews will be present on each product page, but existing reviews won't be transferred to the new store. We can also add links from each product page to the forums for people to discuss the products, but they won't be embedded on the page like they are today.

-Jim

As someone who values reviews a great deal in terms of what others share and what i share on paizo and elsewhere, this continues to be very annoying. I spent a lot of time on my reviews. Will the reviews just be gone or will they still be accessible somewhere for me to copy and paste?

The lack of a migration for reviews and preorders is shocking and frankly not consumer friendly. i know the whole speech about verified reviews but if i have purchased the product and reviewed it then you should be able to migrate that.

That aside, new site looks pretty neat. And i don't see the foundry changes as a big deal for me since i already canceled my subscriptions long ago (and don't use PDFs when running on foundry all that much). But for others i am excited to hear that a solution might be explored for that eventually.

fingerzz wrote:

skizzerz wrote:

Jim Butler wrote:

DemiurgeMCK wrote:

This all looks great! I do have a quick question: should we expect any changes to pre-orders done through third-party sites (like Demiplane, which offers a free Paizo PDF with purchases)?

There shouldn't be any changes through Paizo Connect.

-Jim

It’d be nice if the PDFs get normalized as part of this, so that having a special edition subscription doesn’t grant a PDF that partners don’t “see” under Paizo Connect because the product had special edition in the name.

Would that include already sidecarts in our order history? I just got yesterday charges for subscription.

Your order history will be visible from your new store account. Sidecarts that are pending for a future subscription shipment will be lost after the launch of the new store. So there's nothing to do right now for any sidecarts you have.

-Jim

Occasionally, I ask customer service to put my monthly subscription shipment products in the sidecart to ship with the next subscription shipment so I can save on shipping in months with only a few products, as shipping is rather exorbitant to Europe.

I did this with my last shipment, so my latest subscription products are currently waiting in my sidecart. Does this now mean that if the new store launches before the next subscription shipment, I will lose those products (and the complimentary PDFs) completely?

another concerned voice
I'm lucky enough to be a VO in org play and get my AP PDFs for free
recently I was able to buy all three Spore War modules for Foundry at $14 each ($42 total)

Looking on the foundry marketplace (as you said the new pricing will echo that) those same modules cost $30 each ($90 total)

I generally buy the VTT modules even for content I'm not going to run, so that interest in premium modules (hopefully) drives more product of that high quality to be produced.

doubling my cost will cause me to stop buying VTT module's I'm not running and consider going back the minimalist days of hand built scenarios rather than investing in 'premium' content

my players have no interest in sharing the current cost ($42), let alone chipping in for a share of $90 - not counting my investment in Foundry licences and other premium Paizo content such as bestiaries and monster core modules

Please reconsider this move, or accelerate a workround - one suggestion upthread is a 'personalised' voucher code for the VTT' this seems like a great idea

Jim Butler wrote:

Swiftbrook wrote:

I like the look of the new store. Most of the changes don't affect me and my purchases.

I am disappointed, and frankly don't understand, the lack of a links to the product reviews and forum pages. With the new Paizo system that rewards reviewing products I just don't understand why those reviews would not be linked predominately to a products page. Not having a forum page dedicated to a product linked on the products page (if not included on a products page as it is now) is a giant step backwards. Since I have a general idea what a product is before I go to its product page, I actually look at the comments before I read the product description.

Thanks for listening.

Reviews will be present on each product page, but existing reviews won't be transferred to the new store. We can also add links from each product page to the forums for people to discuss the products, but they won't be embedded on the page like they are today.

-Jim

As someone who values reviews a great deal in terms of what others share and what i share on paizo and elsewhere, this continues to be very annoying. I spent a lot of time on my reviews. Will the reviews just be gone or will they still be accessible somewhere for me to copy and paste?

The lack of a migration for reviews and preorders is shocking and frankly not consumer friendly. i know the whole speech about verified reviews but if i have purchased the product and reviewed it then you should be able to migrate that.

That aside, new site looks pretty neat. And i don't see the foundry changes as a big deal for me since i already canceled my subscriptions long ago (and don't use PDFs when running on foundry all that much). But for others i am excited to hear that a solution might be explored for that eventually.

Related question: will old purchases be verified in the new store, for the purpose of being able to review things?

I'll throw my 5c in here: My group has recently gone from 1e to 2e, and we're also embracing a hybrid in-person/VTT playstyle. One of the big sells for that was being able to buy the PDF, then get the Foundry module for a great price as well. No Foundry discount is going to be pretty disappointing

100%

And it's not like this is a challenge to implement [at least from my perspective] - it's a discount code based on a prior purchase. Am I missing something?

The Foundry discount is:

a) a great value, particularly for me, a guy who purchases way more stuff than he can actually use
b) what encouraged me to switch from Roll20 to Foundry

And finally, then you add those two things together, its meant for a much better table-top experience, since the Foundry VTT is so great AND I can get value out of the subscriptions I've been plugging away at for well over 10 years now.

Paizo really needs to prioritize this for its user-base, as more and more people are playing their games online, and on the platform of one of their key partners.

Yep, I'll add in my .02 also. I've recently had to cancel my subscriptions due to not needing the physical product any more...and now having to buy both the pdf and the foundry module make me reconsider things even more. Hopefully there's some new solution soon, or there's some way to at least bundle the foundry module with the pdf...

Just buy the Foundry module. Yeah, it's not the same thing, but the adventure content is all there.

And w/ the change in adventure paths, the pdf value vis a vis the Foundry module will probably be nil.

Jim Butler wrote:

Swiftbrook wrote:

I like the look of the new store. Most of the changes don't affect me and my purchases.

I am disappointed, and frankly don't understand, the lack of a links to the product reviews and forum pages. With the new Paizo system that rewards reviewing products I just don't understand why those reviews would not be linked predominately to a products page. Not having a forum page dedicated to a product linked on the products page (if not included on a products page as it is now) is a giant step backwards. Since I have a general idea what a product is before I go to its product page, I actually look at the comments before I read the product description.

Thanks for listening.

Reviews will be present on each product page, but existing reviews won't be transferred to the new store. We can also add links from each product page to the forums for people to discuss the products, but they won't be embedded on the page like they are today.

-Jim

As someone who values reviews a great deal in terms of what others share and what i share on paizo and elsewhere, this continues to be very annoying. I spent a lot of time on my reviews. Will the reviews just be gone or will they still be accessible somewhere for me to copy and paste?

The old store pages will redirect to the new store, so you won't be able to get them except through sites like the Wayback Machine.

-Jim

Jim Butler wrote:

fingerzz wrote:

skizzerz wrote:

Jim Butler wrote:

DemiurgeMCK wrote:

This all looks great! I do have a quick question: should we expect any changes to pre-orders done through third-party sites (like Demiplane, which offers a free Paizo PDF with purchases)?

There shouldn't be any changes through Paizo Connect.

-Jim

It’d be nice if the PDFs get normalized as part of this, so that having a special edition subscription doesn’t grant a PDF that partners don’t “see” under Paizo Connect because the product had special edition in the name.

Would that include already sidecarts in our order history? I just got yesterday charges for subscription.

Your order history will be visible from your new store account. Sidecarts that are pending for a future subscription shipment will be lost after the launch of the new store. So there's nothing to do right now for any sidecarts you have.

-Jim

Occasionally, I ask customer service to put my monthly subscription shipment products in the sidecart to ship with the next subscription shipment so I can save on shipping in months with only a few products, as shipping is rather exorbitant to Europe.

I did this with my last shipment, so my latest subscription products are currently waiting in my sidecart. Does this now mean that if the new store launches before the next subscription shipment, I will lose those products (and the complimentary PDFs) completely?

Yes, but the Customer Service team should be able to fix that for you. As much as we've tried to plan out everything for the new store, there is some functionality that will be lost with the switch to the new BigCommerce store (as well as a lot of new functionality gained).

-Jim

Question for those of us who use Fantasy Grounds as their VTT of choice.
Currently there is a sync option for FG where you can sync the purchases from Paizo with those over at Fantasy Grounds.
So if i own the pdf from Paizo i get a discount over at FG and if i buy the module at FG i get the pdf from Paizo.

Will that remain as it was before as only Foundry is mentioned in the blog?

Purging all the old reviews is shocking news, and even more so to see that it was hidden on page 2 of a discussion.

We already know the new reviews are going to be almost useless because only purchasers can make them, so I'm not that surprised by the loss of all the old ones.

Sounds like what appeared to be a cost effective software solution for the new store is turning into having hidden consequences. Not understanding what customers value from a store front before deciding on a solution is well what's happening it seems.

Shame.

Question for those of us who use Fantasy Grounds as their VTT of choice.

Currently there is a sync option for FG where you can sync the purchases from Paizo with those over at Fantasy Grounds.
So if i own the pdf from Paizo i get a discount over at FG and if i buy the module at FG i get the pdf from Paizo.

Will that remain as it was before as only Foundry is mentioned in the blog?

There will be no changes to how Paizo Connect works with other participating licensees, like Fantasy Grounds and Demiplane.

-Jim

Time to back up those old reviews for reposting on the new store.

Man Paizo just can't win with some of you. For the last *decade* people have complained about the store. They're finally fixing it, but not in the way you want.

No project will have 100% buy-in because every project has multiple conflicting goals. You just pick the highest priority goals that have the fewest conflicts.

Well, i appreciate the response though it continues to be not customer friendly.

I also don't see why i need to stumble upon a thread during my vacation and read through comments to tell me that my reviews, which i thought were valued by paizo, will be lost to the void soon.

I said i value reviews. I write detailed reviews on several platforms. I do this because i like reading other people's reviews and not the marketing speak for products and it's my way of giving back. I don't accept payment for reviews and just do it because i find reviews are the best way to know about products. Like did you know the new dji mini drone claims to be 250g but is actually more making it illegal to fly without a license in the EU and likely other countries? Of course dji isn't going to tell you this and they instead hedged a lot of language around it.

I really think reviews need to be migrated if ownership can be verified. I also think you need to allow unverified reviews or otherwise solve the problems around physical book ownership and foundry bundles being able to review individual products.

From a technical perspective this really should not be that hard. But if paizo is ready to nuke 15+ years of reviews then i can't think of a clearer message being sent to us that says they don't care.

You've previously expressed that you need verified reviews to stop the bots. Well i am a real human and these decisions are making me wonder why i would waste time writing reviews for a company clearly communicating they don't care about reviews.

I used to love this company so much but the executive decisions seem to really miss the mark more and more the longer i linger this corner of the internet.

I hope paizo reconsiders the technical investment before nuking user contributed value.

And as an aside, i don't understand how the executives need to continually be told that these kind of changes really don't align with previous communications that community contributed work was valued. (See here and here. Yes reviews aren't CUP but my point is that they do add value to the company even if the company is acting like they don't-- like when they wanted to remove the CUP)

Man Paizo just can't win with some of you. For the last *decade* people have complained about the store. They're finally fixing it, but not in the way you want.

This is a simplification that undermines the feedback. People are communicating what they value about the current store. And in my case review migration should've been listed as an assumption in whatever business proposal they signed. This isn't a matter of just "fixing it in the way i want" so much as "this seems like a bad business decision" and also "i thought paizo cared about content i generated for them".

I'm glad you haven't had any problems. Years ago i remember being alongside you in defending paizo's decisions.

First and foremost, thanks for all the feedback. Some of it is painful to hear, but that comes with the job sometimes. I'm definitely hearing you and considering options.

Reviews I'm meeting with the platform vendor in the next few days and will discuss opening up reviews to everyone, at least for some period of time.

We'll also discuss importing existing reviews. I agree that they are quite valuable to both new and existing players.

Foundry VTT As Andrew already noted a few times in this thread, we are looking at options to reward subscribers and others that invest heavily on the digital side of the business. Once we get more news on that front, you'll hear from Andrew or myself on it.

We started this tech transition two years ago, building a new backend and ecommerce store to bring us up to modern standards and provide a better experience for our customers and employees. Trying to balance 'perfect' and 'good' against business realities is always a challenge, and I hope you'll continue to support Paizo as we march toward launch.

-Jim

Thank you Jim

I wonder, could there be an option to add the Foundry module to the subscription? My issue with the current changes is to keep the subscription and then add the Foundry module is approximately $35, assuming I have the enough gold to keep my discount with the new store it would $51 for the sub and the module. If there was an option to subscribe and get everything for $35ish. I at least would look at doing that.

It doesn't help with those who decide to run it later, but it would at least be something.

Reviews I'm meeting with the platform vendor in the next few days and will discuss opening up reviews to everyone, at least for some period of time.

We'll also discuss importing existing reviews. I agree that they are quite valuable to both new and existing players.

Much appreciated. Without those changes, all my reviews of the last two seasons would be lost without me being able to even copy and paste them to the new store, since I only own the Foundry Modules and not the actual PDFs.