Introducing the New Paizo Store!

So what happens to preorders we've already made, I ordered Starfinder Alien Core retailer cover back in May, Subscriptions don't have the option for the retailer cover, so that isn't an option there.

Also have Monster Match out there preordered,

This all looks great! I do have a quick question: should we expect any changes to pre-orders done through third-party sites (like Demiplane, which offers a free Paizo PDF with purchases)?

So what happens to preorders we've already made, I ordered Starfinder Alien Core retailer cover back in May, Subscriptions don't have the option for the retailer cover, so that isn't an option there.

Also have Monster Match out there preordered,

Preorders will not be carried over to the new store, so you'll need to preorder on the new store after it launches.

-Jim

Thanks for the heads up about Foundry/PDF bundles not working in the new store! Looks like it's time for an early present to the GM to finish out the Season of Ghosts collection.

I would love to see a Digital subscription model that nets you the book, PDF and Foundry module.

I would love to see a Digital subscription model that nets you the book, PDF and Foundry module.

Interesting.

Augh, it's beautiful!!

Moon_Goddess wrote:

So what happens to preorders we've already made, I ordered Starfinder Alien Core retailer cover back in May, Subscriptions don't have the option for the retailer cover, so that isn't an option there.

Also have Monster Match out there preordered,

Preorders will not be carried over to the new store, so you'll need to preorder on the new store after it launches.

-Jim

I don't know the pre-order process well, and I'd like to make sure I get this right when I share this news with other communities. Will pre-orders that are canceled will be refunded, or does the system not charge pre-orders until the product ships?

This all looks great! I do have a quick question: should we expect any changes to pre-orders done through third-party sites (like Demiplane, which offers a free Paizo PDF with purchases)?

There shouldn't be any changes through Paizo Connect.

-Jim

Jim Butler wrote:

Moon_Goddess wrote:

So what happens to preorders we've already made, I ordered Starfinder Alien Core retailer cover back in May, Subscriptions don't have the option for the retailer cover, so that isn't an option there.

Also have Monster Match out there preordered,

Preorders will not be carried over to the new store, so you'll need to preorder on the new store after it launches.

-Jim

I don't know the pre-order process well, and I'd like to make sure I get this right when I share this news with other communities. Will pre-orders that are canceled will be refunded, or does the system not charge pre-orders until the product ships?

We don't charge for preorders until the product ships, so you won't have to worry about any refunds or prepayment issues.

-Jim

DemiurgeMCK wrote:

This all looks great! I do have a quick question: should we expect any changes to pre-orders done through third-party sites (like Demiplane, which offers a free Paizo PDF with purchases)?

There shouldn't be any changes through Paizo Connect.

-Jim

It’d be nice if the PDFs get normalized as part of this, so that having a special edition subscription doesn’t grant a PDF that partners don’t “see” under Paizo Connect because the product had special edition in the name.

(1) Will links to existing product pages of the form "https://paizo.com/products/btq01znb" break, or will they redirect to the new product page?

(2) Same question, with regard to links to images of the form "https://cdn.paizo.com/image/product/catalog/PZOP/PZOPFS0101E.jpg".

Asking this in order to know if and how much effort is going to be required to fix up the catalog of Warhorn listings when the new store goes into effect.

Will it be any easier to find Foundry VTT modules through the store now? Presently it takes quite a bit of digging through menus or a search. Also, even if they're not treated a proper variant of the books, it would be nice to have a link to them from the books' product pages. Looking forward to this brave new world!

David Ignaszak wrote:

Jim Butler wrote:

Moon_Goddess wrote:

So what happens to preorders we've already made, I ordered Starfinder Alien Core retailer cover back in May, Subscriptions don't have the option for the retailer cover, so that isn't an option there.

Also have Monster Match out there preordered,

Preorders will not be carried over to the new store, so you'll need to preorder on the new store after it launches.

-Jim

I don't know the pre-order process well, and I'd like to make sure I get this right when I share this news with other communities. Will pre-orders that are canceled will be refunded, or does the system not charge pre-orders until the product ships?

We don't charge for preorders until the product ships, so you won't have to worry about any refunds or prepayment issues.

-Jim

Thank you. This should let me explain to others what they need to do if they have outstanding preorders. I appreciate the quik response!

For Preorders, what about products that aren't part of a subscription? I preordered the next Pathfinder Novel. I would love to have a Paizo Novel subscription!

Will it be any easier to find Foundry VTT modules through the store now? Presently it takes quite a bit of digging through menus or a search. Also, even if they're not treated a proper variant of the books, it would be nice to have a link to them from the books' product pages. Looking forward to this brave new world!

We are acutely aware of how difficult it can be to find our Foundry products in the current store, and there have been plenty of conversations about ways to remedy that in the new one. :)

Looking forward to the change!

Losing the foundry discount is incredibly disappointing. I play/run games exclusively online, and I'd buy the pdf first to see if the adventure is something I'd even want to run, and getting a discount on the foundry module for it was nice. I can't see myself paying for both the pdf and the foundry module at full price for each. I'd rather extract the images and maps from the pdf and do all the work myself to set it up in foundry.

Hopefully some kind of discount program that isn't a subscription service will be implemented at some point.

Am I understanding this correctly? Once the new store rolls out, the Foundry VTT modules will be priced at the "with PDF" prices going forward regardless of whether or not I own the PDF?

losing the pdf+foundry option is a shame. I run exclusively via foundry, but frequently use the pdf on a second screen because sometimes the way information is formatted when ported over to foundry isn't the most intuitive or easy to manage (eg when you have to flip back and forth a lot between chapters/sections, or sometimes sidebars get included under a preceding section instead of within a section to which they actually relate)

The new store unfortunately can't support gating a product behind PDF ownership, so we'll be offering our Foundry modules exclusively as code-only items and pricing them similarly to the code-only Paizo products already available for purchase on the official Foundry storefront.

The way I read it, you won't be losing the PDF discount as the product that will be available will be priced the same as if you had the PDF under the current system. Assuming the are no other differences between the code only Foundry modules and ones bundled with the PDF, this seems fair enough to me.

The way I read it, you won't be losing the PDF discount as the product that will be available will be priced the same as if you had the PDF under the current system. Assuming the are no other differences between the code only Foundry modules and ones bundled with the PDF, this seems fair enough to me.

I think what they are saying is that they cannot add a "if you own the PDF, you can buy this" flag so that means they would have to either allow EVERYONE to buy the Foundry-Code-Only product or do away with Code-Only and charge everyone the PDF-Bundle pricing (with or without the PDF).

And they chose the latter.

Well that convinced me to go ahead and buy the 6 Foundry Modules I had PDFs for from Humble Bundle. One of the campaigns I already planned to play. May as well get them for the deep discount. Worst case scenario it comes back at the same price and I don't have to buy it later, but there could've been more clarity around the pricing changes planned there.

Jim Butler wrote:

The new store unfortunately can't support gating a product behind PDF ownership, so we'll be offering our Foundry modules exclusively as code-only items and pricing them similarly to the code-only Paizo products already available for purchase on the official Foundry storefront.

The way I read it, you won't be losing the PDF discount as the product that will be available will be priced the same as if you had the PDF under the current system. Assuming the are no other differences between the code only Foundry modules and ones bundled with the PDF, this seems fair enough to me.

It's saying they will be priced the same as they are on the Foundry VTT Marketplace.

$14 currently on Paizo store if you have PDF already.
$29.99 on FVTT Marketplace.

Am I understanding this correctly? Once the new store rolls out, the Foundry VTT modules will be priced at the "with PDF" prices going forward regardless of whether or not I own the PDF?

Not exactly, but close: once the new store rolls out, the Foundry VTT modules will a) no longer have the option of being bundled with a PDF, b) will no longer have an exclusive discounted option that you can only purchase if you already own that PDF, and c) will instead be code-only items priced similarly to the way they are on the official Foundry storefront, where they also do not have either of the two aforementioned options.

We definitely understand why this comes as a disappointment to people who liked to use the PDFs as a second-screen reference while GMing and appreciated the value and convenience of the existing bundles, or who just liked having the option of checking out the PDF beforehand to get some idea of whether they were interested in the adventure before taking the plunge with the Foundry module. Unfortunately, gating a discount for a product behind ownership of a different product is the kind of bespoke functionality that's much easier (comparatively) to implement on an entirely custom-built platform like the current Paizo store than it is on a preexisting piece of software like the one we'll be using for the new one. We did spend a lot of time looking at possible ways to accomplish the same goal, but ultimately none of them would have worked quite the way we needed them to.

Technical limitations aside, we do still believe that you should have an option for getting both the Foundry VTT module and the PDF for a given adventure without having to pay full price for both, and we are actively dedicated to finding a way to implement a new solution in the (hopefully near) future, after all the dust has settled and all the bugs have been squashed from new store's initial rollout the new store has been launched effortlessly with no unforeseen technical hurdles whatsoever.

When you say wishlists will be deleted, does that include lists of forum posts? Also related question, will the permalinks to forum posts stay the same after the transition?

Technical limitations aside, we do still believe that you should have an option for getting both the Foundry VTT module and the PDF for a given adventure without having to pay full price for both, and we are actively dedicated to finding a way to implement a new solution in the (hopefully near) future

Hmm, this is unfortunate for those of us who get who get the PDF as part of subscriptions.

and I think that with the foundry discount change I am done with buying AP pdf from paizo. The foundry module already had issue with double buying the content and without the discount I see no reason to buy the pdf anymore. It was nice while it lasted, but these changes have ended my buing streak. I will finish the AP I am playing and then it is done.

Andrew White wrote:

Technical limitations aside, we do still believe that you should have an option for getting both the Foundry VTT module and the PDF for a given adventure without having to pay full price for both, and we are actively dedicated to finding a way to implement a new solution in the (hopefully near) future

Hmm, this is unfortunate for those of us who get who get the PDF as part of subscriptions.

Subscriptions are getting less and less attractive with every announcement. If I were a cynical person, I might think that's the plan.

The site looks fantastic and I hope it will meet our expectations in terms of user experience and response time (which is more important than the look for me).

I really hope you will add the opportunity to add the special edition (Sketch, Retailer) in the subscription, otherwise the pre-order time change will become a nightmare. Nowadays, to get the retailer or sketch edition as a subscriber I have to

1° Preorder it
2° Wait until the monthly order is issued
3° Contact CS and ask to opt out from the subscribed version
4° Once shipped, contact the CS to add the PDF in my library

That has proven to be practical to get those special edition. With a 7 day limit on pre-order, I will have to purchase a second copy in the special edition which I won't do.

Regarding foundryVTT products, until now, I have purchased all the published products in the "no-pdf" offering, it was affordable that way even If I won't likely be able to use them all.
with this new offering, I feel like I will be paying more for the same content and considering the total amount, I think I will have to buy those modules only when I will run them.

I understand that the website changes is crucial for Paizo and you have to address technological decay, but when I'm summing all the changes
- No more PFS/SFS scenario offered as a courtesy
- No ways to get special edition without having to purchase a publication two times
- no more discount for foundry modules when you own a pdf

My monthly budget for Paizo publication raise consequently and that's not making me happy.

Now, let's hope for the best and and wait for the Big picture to come up.

Edit :
I forgot that complaining without suggestion solution isn't a very positive attitude and I wonder if a solution could rely on Subscriptions

- Special edition subscription, taking those replace you standard book with a special edition whenever available
- Foundry VTT subscription, which would be a subscription available for "subscribers" (or a physical book + foundry module) where the price of the module in the subscription would be adapted to poeple who, due to their subscription own the PDF
- Digital publication subscription : A PDF-only subscription

(1) Will links to existing product pages of the form "https://paizo.com/products/btq01znb" break, or will they redirect to the new product page?

Links to existing products will redirect to the store landing page and not the matching products.

(2) Same question, with regard to links to images of the form "https://cdn.paizo.com/image/product/catalog/PZOP/PZOPFS0101E.jpg".

Asking this in order to know if and how much effort is going to be required to fix up the catalog of Warhorn listings when the new store goes into effect.

There shouldn't be a change in the CDN locations, but the team is verifying. If that changes, I'll post here.

Update: Current store product images will only exist as a time capsule, as new product images won't be pushed to that CDN.

-Jim

That's incredibly disappointing to hear about losing the foundry module options, and I hope whatever is replacing them gets clarified very soon. To be honest, the reasoning provided doesn't really add up, either. What exactly is stopping you from continuing to offer the discounted PDF + Module bundles?

Right now, with the current store, I have the option to buy the PDF of Sky King's Tomb Book 1 for $20, buy the combined PDF and module for $35, or buy the module for $15 if I already own the PDF. Alternatively, I can buy the module on its own on the foundry marketplace for $30. If I'm understanding this post right, once the new store goes up, my only options will be to buy the PDF for $20, the module for $30, or just buy them both separately for $50. While I know you technically don't need both, I, and most GMs who run games through foundry, vastly prefer being able to read the PDFs instead of having to digest the whole adventure through foundry's journals. For those of us who want or need that accessibility, the price of APs is being raised by $15 per book.

David Ignaszak wrote:

Jim Butler wrote:

Moon_Goddess wrote:

So what happens to preorders we've already made, I ordered Starfinder Alien Core retailer cover back in May, Subscriptions don't have the option for the retailer cover, so that isn't an option there.

Also have Monster Match out there preordered,

Preorders will not be carried over to the new store, so you'll need to preorder on the new store after it launches.

-Jim

I don't know the pre-order process well, and I'd like to make sure I get this right when I share this news with other communities. Will pre-orders that are canceled will be refunded, or does the system not charge pre-orders until the product ships?

We don't charge for preorders until the product ships, so you won't have to worry about any refunds or prepayment issues.

-Jim

So, if I understand this right, I don't need to cancel my current preorders, but I will need to set up a new preorder when the new store launches?

The biggest change from my perspective is that it *appears* as if each product no longer has a forum thread attached to it - is this the case? Currently each product has both a Product Discussion thread and a Reviews section.

Will Product Discussion threads disappear?

EDIT: Aso, the landing page pictured (“Welcome Adventurers”) doesn’t appear to have a tab for “Community”…

logsig wrote:

(1) Will links to existing product pages of the form "https://paizo.com/products/btq01znb" break, or will they redirect to the new product page?

Links to existing products will redirect to the store landing page and not the matching products.

Disappointing to hear, but I get it.

Will we still be seeing the Demiplane/Paizo account discount? If we have the PDF on Paizo will we get the discount on Demiplane, or if we have it on Demiplane, will we have the PDF automatically added to our account when synced?

Jim Butler wrote:

David Ignaszak wrote:

Jim Butler wrote:

Moon_Goddess wrote:

So what happens to preorders we've already made, I ordered Starfinder Alien Core retailer cover back in May, Subscriptions don't have the option for the retailer cover, so that isn't an option there.

Also have Monster Match out there preordered,

Preorders will not be carried over to the new store, so you'll need to preorder on the new store after it launches.

-Jim

I don't know the pre-order process well, and I'd like to make sure I get this right when I share this news with other communities. Will pre-orders that are canceled will be refunded, or does the system not charge pre-orders until the product ships?

We don't charge for preorders until the product ships, so you won't have to worry about any refunds or prepayment issues.

-Jim

So, if I understand this right, I don't need to cancel my current preorders, but I will need to set up a new preorder when the new store launches?

Correct.

-Jim

That's incredibly disappointing to hear

It's not going away permanently. It will be back as soon as they figure out how to make it happen in the new store front. Probably will require working with Foundry to get it up and running.

the reasoning provided doesn't really add up, either

If you have any experience as a programmer working with accounting needs it does. "Why do you need it done this way?" "WE JUST DO OKAY!?"

Jim Butler wrote:

DemiurgeMCK wrote:

This all looks great! I do have a quick question: should we expect any changes to pre-orders done through third-party sites (like Demiplane, which offers a free Paizo PDF with purchases)?

There shouldn't be any changes through Paizo Connect.

-Jim

It’d be nice if the PDFs get normalized as part of this, so that having a special edition subscription doesn’t grant a PDF that partners don’t “see” under Paizo Connect because the product had special edition in the name.

Would that include already sidecarts in our order history? I just got yesterday charges for subscription.

I know the team has been working hard to make these changes and bring us a more functional store. I also know the storefront is only the first of the big changes planned, so the hard work continues even after a successful launch. Thank you for your efforts, and for the improvements.

Thank you also for informing and highlighting changes where we may wish to take action in advance such as noting what is in our side carts and wish lists, purchasing discounted Foundry modules, etc.

I look forward to experiencing the new store and hope for a smooth transition for all, especially the dedicated team behind it.

What exactly is stopping you from continuing to offer the discounted PDF + Module bundles?

Limited support for bundling products (and for digital products in particular). That's pretty much it. Is it something we can figure out a solution for in the future? I sure hope so, and have reason to believe we can. It just wasn't an issue we could justify holding up the long, long-awaited initial launch of the store for.

I've talked about this in other threads, but the philosophy behind the original pricing also probably wasn't something we ever communicated that well. Calling the Foundry offerings "bundles" (because, to be fair, we didn't have a better name for two things sold together) implied that you were buying a $20 PDF alongside a $15 Foundry module, when the intention was more that you were buying a $35 Foundry module and getting the PDF for free because you'd already paid for the adventure content with the module (or, vice versa, getting the module at a discount because you'd already paid for the adventure content with the PDF).

When we first started putting code-only modules on the Foundry storefront, we offered them at slightly less than the bundle price to offset the fact that they couldn't include the PDF or PDF discount, and now we're doing the same thing on paizo.com since we won't be able to offer them here anymore either. It's not as much as the discount we used to offer for PDF ownership, but we could offer that discount because you only qualified for it by purchasing the adventure content in some other format. With the new store, we'll no longer have any way of knowing whether you've done that, so we have to make sure the price for each Foundry product still covers the cost of producing the original adventure as well as the cost of converting it to Foundry, while still dropping the total price a little just to make up for the fact that you're not getting the bonus PDF anymore.

It's not an ideal solution, and I sympathize with the impression that this essentially amounts to a $15 price hike if you want both the PDF and the Foundry module. The whole philosophy behind the original bundles centered on the idea that you shouldn't have to pay twice for the same content in two different complementary digital formats, though, so rest assured that we have every intention of implementing a new solution to that problem as soon as we can figure one out.

Our teams are hunting down pesky gremlins...

*tee-hee-hee*

Good luck!

>:)

So first off, the site looks fantastic, but I do have one concern. Since data can't be transferred for purchases (which probably isn't a big deal since no money is going to be lost), will data also be lost if/when the society play side of things (hopefully) gets updated? Losing all THAT data would be a disaster.

Cthoodles wrote:

What exactly is stopping you from continuing to offer the discounted PDF + Module bundles?

The whole philosophy behind the original bundles centered on the idea that you shouldn't have to pay twice for the same content in two different complementary digital formats, though, so rest assured that we have every intention of implementing a new solution to that problem as soon as we can figure one out.

Thanks for the detailed and open response; I really appreciate it. That philosophy makes sense, and I'm glad to hear that you guys hope to restore the setup, or implement an equivalent, as soon as possible. Sorry if my initial comment came off as overly harsh.

When you say wishlists will be deleted, does that include lists of forum posts? Also related question, will the permalinks to forum posts stay the same after the transition?

Product Wishlists will be the ones going away with the new store, as you won't be able to go to those product pages or add upcoming products from the old store.

Lists where you store your favorite posts and such are part of the forums and will likely remain for now. Forums are future work for us, and I don't have details for what exactly we'll be doing with those.

-Jim

Will we still be seeing the Demiplane/Paizo account discount? If we have the PDF on Paizo will we get the discount on Demiplane, or if we have it on Demiplane, will we have the PDF automatically added to our account when synced?

Yes. There shouldn't be any changing in how Paizo Connect works.

-Jim

Gotta add my voice to the chorus about the changes to Foundry products. Hope I'm being fair here.

I really like that Paizo offers PDFs and have subscribed to several lines recently to a) support a company I like and b) make sure I'm getting PDFs for physical products I buy. The reverse is also true, I have gone to effort to buy physical books I have PDFs of from Humble Bundle. It is quite expensive to subscribe to even a single line of books, frankly I'm a little frustrated that "free" PDFs are locked behind a FOMO subscription. To not buy content twice you need to subscribe, and since the content is brand new I may not know if it will be something I want to run or if it will hold up a high standard of quality. I admit I feel a little let down by Myth-Speaker, my first AP as a subscriber. I don't know why but I feel like the art is much smaller and less detailed than previous APs. Adventure PDFs also never have clickable links, although the new Starfinder core books do, I'm not sure I understand why that isn't a standard for all new releases. I wish that I could get a complimentary PDF for a physical purchase from Paizo, regardless of whether it is the month of release. To my understanding the PDFs for subscriptions were a carrot to incentive buying direct without directly cannibalizing LFG sales, since Paizo isn't going to be treating APs as a monthly magazine I'm not sure why non-subscribers should be stuck with the stick.

To that end I'm glad for the move to single volume adventure paths because buying so many books and paying for shipping is expensive. I bought all of Season of Ghosts from the Paizo store in physical recently, and now it is getting a (superior IMO) hardcover that I will likely buy again as a subscriber. Wish it had been an option before I spent ~ $100. Mercifully I will hopefully get a PDF for that version, when I was not granted PDFs for buying the four volumes direct from Paizo.

The additional discount for Foundry modules was a key component that made subscribing feel like less FOMO and more of an investment. It made me feel secure that when I wanted to run a game for those adventures I would be able to leverage my existing library in the future. I do not feel like my subscriptions will be worth the high price if the only benefit is the PDFs. At this point to get 1) a physical copy, 2) a PDF copy, and be 3) a ready-to-play Foundry module you will need to buy the exact same adventure at full price a minimum of twice and three times if you were not subscribed the month of release. $80 for a physical book and PDF if you subscribe, and then what, $90 for the Foundry? I'm just guessing, but $170 per adventure path as a best case scenario is a lot to ask. I know finances are rough but that means it's rough for your fans too.

There's a lot of important info (clarifications, etc) wrapped up in the Pathfinder Society product page comments. Are those going to be lost as part of the migration?

The biggest change from my perspective is that it *appears* as if each product no longer has a forum thread attached to it - is this the case? Currently each product has both a Product Discussion thread and a Reviews section.

Will Product Discussion threads disappear?

The forum discussion for products will disappear from the product detail page. Those historical pages will still be present in the forums, however.

EDIT: Aso, the landing page pictured (“Welcome Adventurers”) doesn’t appear to have a tab for “Community”…

Good catch! We've added that to the store navigation.

-Jim

skizzerz wrote:

Jim Butler wrote:

DemiurgeMCK wrote:

This all looks great! I do have a quick question: should we expect any changes to pre-orders done through third-party sites (like Demiplane, which offers a free Paizo PDF with purchases)?

There shouldn't be any changes through Paizo Connect.

-Jim

It’d be nice if the PDFs get normalized as part of this, so that having a special edition subscription doesn’t grant a PDF that partners don’t “see” under Paizo Connect because the product had special edition in the name.

Would that include already sidecarts in our order history? I just got yesterday charges for subscription.

Your order history will be visible from your new store account. Sidecarts that are pending for a future subscription shipment will be lost after the launch of the new store. So there's nothing to do right now for any sidecarts you have.

-Jim