Introducing Paizo Plus

Displaying "verified purchase" next to a review by someone who has actually purchased the product, potentially with a toggle a viewer has to press to actually see all the unverified reviews - sounds like a fair compromise here.

That might be a future option for us, but we need to launch with the current features and learn/expand from there. I'd rather open up additional functionality post-launch than realize we've made a huge mistake and have to take things away. This is especially true when you're dealing with something like gold that can be converted to free products.

Related to that, over the years, I often had to purchase products for players without a credit card, or for my GMs, I am assuming that a gifted purchase, or someone redeeming a Humble Bundle code, also qualifies them to give a review? Anything else would be pretty silly.

I looked through a few random orders, and it appears that Humble Bundle items are showing up in order history, so you should be able to write reviews for those items.

At the end of the day, I fear that limiting the ability to give feedback via reviews is just going to cause people to voice that sentiment in other places, and thus far, "leave a review, they read those" was a good way to limit players from complaining while still at the table.

Not entirely sure if players starting a thread or several complaining about something in the org play section is going to make the forums more pleasant, though that is usually the area where GMs have to run things as written, and feedback tends to be rather direct.

Understood. I do think discussions about what they liked/didn't like about a particular product can be a positive discussion topic, but new forums are on the list to address as well.

-Jim

Two things I'd like to add:

Thanks to Jim for being so active and responsive on this topic, and...

Longer-term, we are looking to have distribution partners in Europe and Australia that will be able to fulfill Paizo products. We haven't yet scoped that integration work, nor have we secured such an agreement with a partner that can do B2C fulfillment. Warehousing products in Europe and Australia would allow us to ship them there...

This is ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS news for us international folks. I want to subscribe in order to support Paizo as their values align closely with mine, but I often feel I do this in spite of the very high shipping costs. The fact that Paizo have listened to feedback and have plans to do something about it is phenomenal news, and gives me even more warm fuzzy feelings about the company!

Thank you so much!

Tom

If you have a Legacy Adventure Path subscription, you will have the same subscription when we switch over to the new system.

-Jim

You will retain your legacy discount if you are part of that small group of folks that have been subscribers since AP#1.

-Jim

Wait, I'm confused. Very early in this thread, your first reply quoted here said that those who have Legacy Advantage will retain their benefits.

Second quote indicates it is only those who retain the Charter Subscriber title?

According to my receipts from monthly shipments, I have the "Legacy Paizo Advantage" for having been a subscriber at the end of First Edition, and received #144 as part of my subscription; and the "Legacy Paizo Advantage - Adventure Path" for being subscribed at the end of First Edition. Does that or does that not count as the Legacy Advantage, and keeping our current discount???

Two things I'd like to add:

Thanks to Jim for being so active and responsive on this topic, and...

Jim Butler wrote:

Longer-term, we are looking to have distribution partners in Europe and Australia that will be able to fulfill Paizo products. We haven't yet scoped that integration work, nor have we secured such an agreement with a partner that can do B2C fulfillment. Warehousing products in Europe and Australia would allow us to ship them there...

This is ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS news for us international folks. I want to subscribe in order to support Paizo as their values align closely with mine, but I often feel I do this in spite of the very high shipping costs. The fact that Paizo have listened to feedback and have plans to do something about it is phenomenal news, and gives me even more warm fuzzy feelings about the company!

Thank you so much!

Tom

I’m not sure “we haven’t scoped that integration work, nor have we secured such an agreement” is ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS news.

Jim Butler wrote:

If you have a Legacy Adventure Path subscription, you will have the same subscription when we switch over to the new system.

-Jim

Jim Butler wrote:

You will retain your legacy discount if you are part of that small group of folks that have been subscribers since AP#1.

-Jim

Wait, I'm confused. Very early in this thread, your first reply quoted here said that those who have Legacy Advantage will retain their benefits.

Second quote indicates it is only those who retain the Charter Subscriber title?

According to my receipts from monthly shipments, I have the "Legacy Paizo Advantage" for having been a subscriber at the end of First Edition, and received #144 as part of my subscription; and the "Legacy Paizo Advantage - Adventure Path" for being subscribed at the end of First Edition. Does that or does that not count as the Legacy Advantage, and keeping our current discount???

Yes, that still counts. Both groups retain their discounts.

-Jim

Longer-term, we are looking to have distribution partners in Europe and Australia that will be able to fulfill Paizo products. We haven't yet scoped that integration work, nor have we secured such an agreement with a partner that can do B2C fulfillment. Warehousing products in Europe and Australia would allow us to ship them there...

While I really look forward to this (shipping this month was USD 61.39 and that is after the USD 10.00 discount), please, please, please try to add tracking to international shipments as soon as possible.

Having high shipping costs and high shipping times and sometimes additional customs costs is all aggravating but bearable to me, but not knowing where the shipment is and not being able to contact the transport service in case of a hold-up somewhere (or to reschedule the delivery date, since I let things be shipped to my work address) is what is really grating on me.

I don't know if you have a long-term contract with some transport service which does not offer tracking, but the vast majority of them do nowadays. If I can get a T-Shirt or art print from China with functional international tracking from some random Chinese seller on Amazon, I really don't get why this is so difficult (or vastly more expensive, for using the higher cost shipping options) with Paizo.

I can tell I won't really understand what this means practically until it is live and I can engage with it.

As someone with, frankly, a ridiculous number of subscriptions, my hope is that we can keep everything streamlined so that the usual stuff comes automatically. The reason that I subscribe is so that I don't have to interact with the storefront; friction on that end is more likely to make me cancel stuff than to make me engage and buy more.

But I am satisfied that the new system will have a similar amount of "value" for me as the current one.

Now this is more of a comment on how I would like subscription management to work (which I understand will be addressed later), but one of the things that I really appreciate about the current system is that I can manage things so that there is only one charge per month. Now that they are no longer free, I would hope that there would be a way to make it so that PFS and SFS subscriptions could be "side-carted" so that they fulfill at the same time as my other subscriptions, even though they don't techically "ship" in the same way. Keeping the cash flow similar means that I only have to review things monthly -- multiple monthly charges would be an irritant.

I propose that reviews are open to everyone but that the average review score shown on the product page only takes into account reviews from those who purchased it.

The latter is IMO what will kill the bad faith reviewers who currently leave just one star and no comment at all on a product they want to kill.

I know percentages off aren't going to stack, but would the $20 off redemption stack with the 15% off from legendary tier or a legacy discount? Is the number spent on purchases what you actually pay for it or the value of the non discounted item?

put me in on the points expiring being bad list. this does seem to try to steer people away from local game stores even more than the existing subscription model does which bothers me a bit.

Barbaric Gug Swarm wrote:

Cori Marie wrote:

Or a lifetime status for those that have spent over a certain amount lifetime like airlines do for their million mile flyers?

Or something for those that are still Charter subscribers? (Asking for a friend.)

Been wondering about this too. I'm sure those of us with charter status are in the super-minority, but it would be nice to get some sort of real benefit from it, beyond a little label on the forums.

As a Charter subscriber I am also curious about this. My loyalty early by having my Dungeon subscription being rolled over and maintaining a Paizo subscription was previously meaningfully recognized. It may not have been explicitly said, but I certainly got the feeling that being a Charter subscriber was valued by giving me a a discount so long as I maintained at least the original AP subscription.

While I am currently still with a number of subscriptions that would keep me Legendary, this new system feels like putting the burden on me to manage something that was previously a "thank you for being with us through the ride."

Feels icky.
Feels unappreciated.
Feels like a promise broken.

(Or I may be misinterpreting all this. Was Charter mentioned in the original post. I've skimmed 150+ texts in this thread and I'm still confused.)

The fact that Scenarios will no longer be included for those with multiple subscriptions is infuriating and, frankly, a slap in the face to those of us who are committed to being your biggest supporters month after month.

Depending on the month, some of us multi-subscription holders spend literally hundreds of dollars monthly. Throwing in a few scenarios that would normally be sold for a few dollars each is a nice “Thank You” for those of us so commited to Paizo’s ecosystem. Doing so pretty much costs Paizo nothing since they’re just digital files, but serves as an incentive to maintain multiple subscriptions.

“You can just use gold to buy them” is absolutely no condolence. We will have to manually go in every month and buy them, which is FAR less convenient than Paizo thanking us by automatically adding them to our account. Also, yes I can use gold to buy them, but I could be using that gold to buy OTHER THINGS, so this doesn’t sound like a good deal to me!

I really hope Paizo reconsiders, and decides instead to continue to show their gratitude to those of us subscribers committed to spending a lot of money every month on your products. This shift in policy and apparent indifference towards subscribers is definitely making me reconsider maintaining as many subscriptions as I have been.

Unlike Efteiroh I haven't crunched the numbers, so I'm operating on mostly feel rather than facts right now.

1. I'm 78 years old.

2. I have 22 subscriptions listed on my "My Subscriptions" list, five of which -- Adventure Card Game, Comics, Pawns, Player Companion, Tales -- are apparently defunct. I had a Battles sub, which I've cancelled, and that doesn't appear. That leaves 17(!) active subscriptions.

3. What I have so far gleaned from this announcement (I missed the one back in April) is that keeping up with Paizo publications is going to take some work which I will probably find annoying.

4. I haven't thoroughly read the last couple of AP or rules books.

5. I haven't even opened the box on last month's shipment.

6. I'm guessing it's costing me between $2000 and $2500 a year for all these subs. That's with the Paizo Advantage.

7. I haven't played or run a game in years.

8. None of my current circle of friends is interested in Pathfinder or Starfinder.

9. I'm running out of room to store stuff, leading to me at least think about cancelling all the subs and just buying pdfs, if I buy anything at all.

So, at this point I can apparently sign up for this thing now, or wait until the store goes live and my "Paizo Advantage" disappears. Or I can cancel all my subs and forget about Pathfinder and Starfinder.

Suggestions? :-)

You will retain your legacy discount if you are part of that small group of folks that have been subscribers since AP#1.

-Jim

I am, Jim. Thanks!

-Skeld

Don’t like this idea of points needing to be used to purchase the PFS and SFS monthly releases that came free with having multiple subscriptions.
I very much like receiving the Society PDFs automatically due to my multiple subscriptions. I hope this system does not end. Not looking forward to having to use “gold” to purchase Society PDFs.

Due to the amount of complaints on here, I feel like I'm missing something....

The current Paizo Advantage requires 4 subscriptions to get you 15% off of most things, upcoming Paizo Plus gives you 15% off of most things assuming you spend enough in a year which looks like if you subscribe to 4 things (minimum required for current Paizo Advantage) you reach that dollar amount.
Is it that people are subscribed to the 4 cheapest subscriptions (based on annual cost) so now they'll be getting less?

Current Paizo Advantage automatically gets you PFS or SFS scenarios for free, upcoming Paizo Plus gets you enough Gold to get them for free (but now you'll have to add them yourselves) but also gives you the option to buy other stuff instead.
Yeah, okay, having to manually cash in gold to get the scenarios is an inconvenience, but if allows you to get other products instead of scenarios (if you don't use the scenarios this looks flat-out better).

What am I missing?

Due to the amount of complaints on here, I feel like I'm missing something....

The current Paizo Advantage requires 4 subscriptions to get you 15% off of most things, upcoming Paizo Plus gives you 15% off of most things assuming you spend enough in a year which looks like if you subscribe to 4 things (minimum required for current Paizo Advantage) you reach that dollar amount.
Is it that people are subscribed to the 4 cheapest subscriptions (based on annual cost) so now they'll be getting less?

Current Paizo Advantage automatically gets you PFS or SFS scenarios for free, upcoming Paizo Plus gets you enough Gold to get them for free (but now you'll have to add them yourselves) but also gives you the option to buy other stuff instead.
Yeah, okay, having to manually cash in gold to get the scenarios is an inconvenience, but if allows you to get other products instead of scenarios (if you don't use the scenarios this looks flat-out better).

What am I missing?

Yeah, this is my read of things too. I'm really confused by people kicking up such a fuss over having to manually get society scenarios each month in exchange for getting the choice to use that discount on anything, not just scenarios. Sounds like a win for everyone by giving us all more options, but in particular those of us that don't play much society.

I’ve been thinking about this new Paizo Plus rewards program, and honestly, it kind of rubs me the wrong way. I get that companies want to reward loyalty and encourage purchases—but the way this is structured feels more predatory than generous.

First off, the whole thing is built around spending more money to unlock more stuff. That’s not new, but when you gamify it with tiers and dangling rewards just out of reach, it starts to feel like you’re being manipulated. It’s a classic tactic used in mobile games and lootbox systems—spend just a little more and get a shiny thing! And once you’re in, it’s easy to keep going just so your previous spending doesn’t feel wasted.

There’s also this FOMO factor baked in. If you’re a dedicated fan, it almost feels like you have to keep up just to stay on the same level as everyone else. No one wants to be the one left out of the cool new perks or digital exclusives. And let’s be real—most of these rewards aren’t exactly game-changers. They’re neat, but they’re not worth buying extra books you don’t need just to get them.

Another issue is that the whole thing is kind of confusing. There are a bunch of reward tiers, and the difference between them isn’t always clear. What you get at each level can feel vague or underwhelming unless you’re already planning to buy a lot of stuff. It’s easy to lose track of what you're actually getting—and that confusion benefits the company more than the customer.

And here’s the part that bugs me most: this system targets the most loyal fans. The people who are already buying tons of books, minis, and subscriptions are the ones most likely to chase these perks. Instead of rewarding them with simple, clear bonuses, Paizo’s dangling a carrot that keeps moving further away unless you keep spending. That’s not loyalty—it’s exploitation.

It also feels like a shift toward a subscription mindset, where instead of buying what you need, you're encouraged to spend consistently just to stay "in the club." It blurs the line between supporting the company and being financially strung along.

So yeah, it’s not the worst thing I’ve ever seen, and I get that some people will find value in it. But personally, I think it sets a bad precedent. It encourages over-spending, preys on completionist habits, and turns your love for the game into a spending contest. That’s not the kind of relationship I want to have with a game company I used to admire for doing things differently.

I'm not really sure about pushing towards subscription - the existing model only has subscription rewards, while the new one gives a free Society module to the two-annual-purchases folks.

I mean, you flip it around, and I'd expect a lot of people angry that "you're taking away all the rewards for anything but subscribers".

Having a points loyalty program is cool, but having exclusive items for people who've spent $750 first is kinda scummy. Maybe you'll change my mind based on what they are, but without knowing what these possible things are going to be that are unavailable to many... it leaves a bad taste.

I'm sorry untill they start literally sending the pinkertons to peoples doors I'm going to be say anyone comparing this to the stuff WOTC has done is frankly being ridiculous.

Yes they are changing how the the thing works and yes that does mean some people are going to be worse off than under the old system but also some (Like me) will be better off and others will basically break even.

Admitadlly I'm very used to buying model gaming stuff (GW) from third party supliers who often have point reward systems which this pretty much exactly is with a few extra bits (points for birthdays.)

All for this as a subscriber. I never run the society scenarios so the flexibility is much better for me, will probably put my gold toward Starfinder 2e instead.

Will the 15% store wide discount from Legendary tier stack with the discounts redeemed with gold?

The post says they don't stack with store sale discounts specifically, but I want to double check that interaction because it changes how I'd need to use gold to get good value out of it.

Warped Savant wrote:

Due to the amount of complaints on here, I feel like I'm missing something....

The current Paizo Advantage requires 4 subscriptions to get you 15% off of most things, upcoming Paizo Plus gives you 15% off of most things assuming you spend enough in a year which looks like if you subscribe to 4 things (minimum required for current Paizo Advantage) you reach that dollar amount.
Is it that people are subscribed to the 4 cheapest subscriptions (based on annual cost) so now they'll be getting less?

Current Paizo Advantage automatically gets you PFS or SFS scenarios for free, upcoming Paizo Plus gets you enough Gold to get them for free (but now you'll have to add them yourselves) but also gives you the option to buy other stuff instead.
Yeah, okay, having to manually cash in gold to get the scenarios is an inconvenience, but if allows you to get other products instead of scenarios (if you don't use the scenarios this looks flat-out better).

What am I missing?

Yeah, this is my read of things too. I'm really confused by people kicking up such a fuss over having to manually get society scenarios each month in exchange for getting the choice to use that discount on anything, not just scenarios. Sounds like a win for everyone by giving us all more options, but in particular those of us that don't play much society.

I can't speak for all shirren, but I think most shirren would agree that options are good.

Sadly I do not have the means to spend on Paizo products as much as I did before. But honestly I feel the new system is a great improvement on the previous one.

At the cost of giving some attention to my gold amount, I am rewarded more and can spend on items that interest me more.

Great all around.

I guess the things that could make it even better would be an obvious way to show the gold you have when navigating the site and an obvious possibility during check out to use the gold.

I've been subscribing for years, and being able to get my scenarios and discounts has been a big part of why I did it. I don't have to think about it, I just get what I want, and I can come grab them when I have time, which often, I don't. The discount made it worth it.

Now I won't get the scenario, and I won't get the discount any more, for a year?

And I have to come in and buy the scenarios with gold?

This is a miserable change. Please do something to let those subscribed to the legacy plans keep them.

I've been subscribing for years, and being able to get my scenarios and discounts has been a big part of why I did it. I don't have to think about it, I just get what I want, and I can come grab them when I have time, which often, I don't. The discount made it worth it.

Now I won't get the scenario, and I won't get the discount any more, for a year?

And I have to come in and buy the scenarios with gold?

This is a miserable change. Please do something to let those subscribed to the legacy plans keep them.

You will get the discount based on the last year's worth of purchases; it's not starting subscribers from scratch.

I've been subscribing for years, and being able to get my scenarios and discounts has been a big part of why I did it. I don't have to think about it, I just get what I want, and I can come grab them when I have time, which often, I don't. The discount made it worth it.

Now I won't get the scenario, and I won't get the discount any more, for a year?

And I have to come in and buy the scenarios with gold?

This is a miserable change. Please do something to let those subscribed to the legacy plans keep them.

Have you read Jim Bulters' last comment? I think he already answered your question about legacy plans.

Glav wrote:

I've been subscribing for years, and being able to get my scenarios and discounts has been a big part of why I did it. I don't have to think about it, I just get what I want, and I can come grab them when I have time, which often, I don't. The discount made it worth it.

Now I won't get the scenario, and I won't get the discount any more, for a year?

And I have to come in and buy the scenarios with gold?

This is a miserable change. Please do something to let those subscribed to the legacy plans keep them.

Have you read Jim Bulters' last comment? I think he already answered your question about legacy plans.

Glad to hear it. It wasn’t in the article. Would be helpful to as it to the FAQ section.

The point about the subscription to scenarios still stands.

A MUCH bigger concern is that Paizo is continuing to support platforms that want people like me to just die already because my continued existence is an affront to their belief path.

Further, will the new site require things like 2FA and other fancy shenanigans?

Do not have a 'smart' phone, Do not WANT one, and do not want to feel must get one to 'keep up with the points' minigame.

Perhaps thin-skinnedness is something one acquires as one gets older, but it feels like one is being thrown under the bus to satisfy some unknown metric.

May your day be peaceful and full of insight.

I think the discrepancy some people are confused about is between people who think of the gold given as being a more flexible form of the scenario benefit and people who don't.

Some people see it as losing the scenario benefit and think they should get the scenarios and the extra gold as separate promotions, other people like that they can take the promotion that was giving them scenarios and can apply it elsewhere, a few people seem to not care but have strong feelings about not having an auto-updating scenario library (I guess you could just pick up the subscription manually, it doesn't seem like there's a way to automate using the discount on that mentioned though.)

Personally, I'm of the second school, though I'm one subscription short of having had the scenario benefit, we mainly run homebrew content and being able to put the same value toward foundry modules or just defraying my overall costs is more valuable.

I value the society scenarios, and I value the convivence of not having to manually add them to my cart and apply a gold discount to them.

I'm not currently running society scenarios, outside of random one-offs tied to a side story in an AP/homebrew. So if we lose the convivence aspect, I probably wouldn't deal with the monthly. I definitely wouldn't bother with the SFS scenarios. Maybe this means I get to spend my gold on more useful things to me, but it feels bad and like I need to micromanage. It feels like I might drop some of the hit-or-miss subscriptions for me to free up non-auto-purchased things so I have something left to spend gold on. But in reality that probably means I'm spending less and getting less. Unless there's a way to auto-apply a gold balance towards regular subscription payments.

This seems very awkward for people who typically get most of the subscriptions. What's left to spend gold on? I used to sometimes buy an extra copy of a book to donate to a convention give away. And I guess I can still do that, but this really feels like its actually discouraging the superscriber.

All for this as a subscriber. I never run the society scenarios so the flexibility is much better for me, will probably put my gold toward Starfinder 2e instead.

Will the 15% store wide discount from Legendary tier stack with the discounts redeemed with gold?

The post says they don't stack with store sale discounts specifically, but I want to double check that interaction because it changes how I'd need to use gold to get good value out of it.

Percentage discounts don't stack, so you can't take your 15% Legendary reward and add the 10% reward to it. You can, however, use your gold to buy $10 or $20 off coupons and apply those to your order that do stack with the 15% off.

-Jim