Tian Xia Days: Dreams of Youth

Tuesday, March 12, 2024

“To the left!”

“His stomach’s open!”

“Pin him down, pin him down!”

The basher arcade was filled with battle cries and frenzied advice from spectators as servers smoothly weaved between groups with cheap drinks for their patrons. Students from all over the city crowded every corner, cheering and booing each game’s combatants. Soo-jin took a long sip of tea, wincing at the strong aftertaste as onlookers shouted at the small figures projected in the middle of their table.

“Get him!” one of the boys from Sage Plum Academy cried as an alley basher kicked her opponent in the head. “To the right, to the right!”

The tiny figures clashed again, fists flying as their players maneuvered them to victory. Nga’s eyes were locked onto the projections as she rolled her fighter into a defensive position, raising his arms to shield his chest. Her opponent grinned, his hands deftly moving levers while his fighter pressed in with punches and kicks.

Soo-jin watched the brawl with gritted teeth, waggling her fingers nervously. One boy’s eyes met hers and he pointed a finger at the SPELLS ARE CHEATING sign; irritated, Soo-jin raised her hands and pointedly showed they were free of magic auras before setting them on the table.

The opposing fighter grabbed Nga’s by the waist. Soo-jin’s nails now clacked against the table in a nervous drum beneath the frenzied shouts for a finishing blow. With a smirk, Nga flipped a lever, and her fighter’s elbow smashed downward, his leg swooping up into a powerful kick. There was a shout—a blare of music—and Soo-jin jumped so fast her chair fell over.

Nga beamed triumphantly as the Sage Plum boy groaned, his friends laughing and sighing at his loss. Nga’s tiny fighter raised his fist, roaring silently in victory, and illusory fireworks exploded across the table to illuminate expressions of both dismay and glee around the table.

“Pay up, all!” Soo-jin laughed. Groans echoed above the victory music, followed by the clink of coins falling into her purse as she collected her friend’s winnings. Another round was suggested and a new challenger was already settling into the open seat, cracking their knuckles dramatically as the battle music started back up. Soo-jin cast a quick cantrip over the purse, checking the total, before nodding a quick farewell to the other students and following Nga toward the exit.

A group of students cheer over a magical projection showing two martial artists fighting

Art by Sandra Posada


The heavy scent of cheap tea and fried snacks gave way to the aroma of hot buns and saucy chicken. The sun was bright outside the basher arcade, the shouts of stall vendors replacing the cheers of students. Tired laborers grumbled about the lack of progress on the Surepath highway while young children ran past, yelling about spotting a sundaflora in the gardens. A girl from Soo-jin’s cram school waved politely from a shop known for its buns; Soo-jin awkwardly waved back, trying and failing to remember anything except that the girl had a duck as a familiar.

Nga and Soo-jin walked leisurely to their usual kopi-tiam, greeting Uncle Moon as the smell of coffee wafted toward them. Uncle Moon shouted a greeting back, merrily flipping hot taiyaki from a pan into a wax paper bag. Momo slept peacefully on the counter, purring with one small paw curled protectively over a copper piece.

“May I take your order?” a short tengu server asked as they sat down.

“Two taiyaki, one Xa Hoi coffee, and—” Soo-jin looked over the menu, and something newly added distracted her from her usual order “—one sparkle tea, please.” The server nodded and shuffled off, stopping to check on another customer. Soo-jin added the day’s total to a column in her notebook. “We’re so close, Nga. Just a few more silver pieces and we’re set!”

“I’m getting paid for tutoring on Moonday, so you can add that to our current amount.” Nga accepted the arriving tray from the server and took a leisurely sip of coffee. “You know, if you would take up tutoring—”

“I would rather let Mogaru eat me.” Soo-jin looked out the window. It hadn’t been that long since the giant monster’s attack, but she could scarcely see the water for all the bamboo scaffolding that had sprouted up in the aftermath. The city would be back, bigger than ever, in no time.

“Come on! Everyone wants a Willow Branch student to teach their kids, you’d make enough money for a concert ticket after a week.”

“You’re just as good as any twig,” Soo-jin scoffed, biting into her taiyaki and regretting it immediately as piping hot red bean paste scalded her mouth. She gasped, huffing desperately to try and cool down. Momo opened a judgmental eye from the counter. “You should try to test into another school.”

“As much as my parents would love for me to become a ‘twig,’ I’d rather be the best where I am than become average at a fancy academy.” Nga took a smug sip. “Unlike you, I’m in the top ten in my class.”

“Well, Miss Top Ten, keep up the good work and we’ll get our concert tickets in no time.”

Soo-jin’s eyes swept past Nga’s head to the wall of advertisements behind her, lingering on a poster announcing the upcoming Shining Crystal Muses concert in celebration of Harmonious Spring. Vivid ink paintings of the four Muses reached out to a prism floating above them, enchanted pigments creating tiny flecks of rainbow light that danced across the poster. Even in an ink portrait, Haru’s handsome face stood out, smiling coyly.

Goka had everything—peoples and food and buildings and magic from everywhere on the continent—but the one thing it had that Soo-jin cared about more than all of that was the Shining Crystal Muses. In only two weeks, she was going to meet Haru in person. It was a shame the concert hall wasn’t in its full splendor, as the authorities had foolishly deemed it lower priority for reconstruction.

What if that kaiju comes back? Soo-jin’s mother had fretted, but if Mogaru inconvenienced the city at the most important moment of her life, Soo-jin would personally put the kaiju down and no one could stop her. She smiled back at the poster, sipping her sparkle tea as worries of exams slipped out of her mind, and she focused on what really mattered: supporting her favorite band.

About the Author

Michelle Y. Kim (she/her) is a TTRPG writer and developer with a love for folklore and horror. You can find her at https://twitter.com/_missmyk_ or https://bsky.app/profile/missmyk.bsky.social.




Pathfinder Second Edition: Lost Omens Tian Xia World Guide Pathfinder Second Edition: Tian Xia Character Guide

To bring this and other Tian Xia stories to life in your Pathfinder game, check out the Pathfinder Lost Omens Tian Xia World Guide (releasing in April) and the Pathfinder Lost Omens Tian Xia Character Guide (releasing in August), both available for preorder now. Customers who Customers who subscribe to the Lost Omens product line will receive both books and a complimentary PDF of each upon their respective release!

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Liberty's Edge

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With a bit of redressing totally can see this in Durarara!! Thanks for the fun read, Michelle!

Liberty's Edge

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Goka-pop FTW !!!


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Is it just me or does this really read like the setup for a 90's teen movie? Either way I loved it.


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I love that there's a "spells are cheating" sign. That's such a good way of putting things; not "no magic allowed", because a) boring and b) that'd be like saying "no technology allowed", but rather "using magic to influence it, counts just as much as other ways to influence it".

This feels incredibly anime; that is not a bad thing. But like, it also feels like it BELONGS in the setting, so that just shows an at least one person (prolly more) has done a good job with integrating those concepts and that world.

Grand Archive

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The Raven Black wrote:
Goka-pop FTW !!!

They are saving to be able to STAN their bias live!

But... is it just me or that relationship is VERY one-sided?

Nga wins at arcade fights while Soo-jin barely only collect bets...
Nga do tutoring without any "fame" from her school of choice to help, while Soo-jin, from a prestigious one don't...
Soojin didn't even ask what Nga wanted as her order, and she didn't hold back on ordering a potentially fancy drink... xD

Still. Very nice fiction! I love it. xD
And the characters are interesting. I definitely would like reading more about them. :3

Note: After a quick googling, I found that sparkling tea IS an actual thing, and is basically an alcohol-free fermented drink that can replace "sparkling wines" (AKA champagne) in a meal.


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Not even a Kaiju can get between a girl and her favorite band.

Also really love the vibes of things that reference modern ideas but still make them feel fantastical.


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Firstly, this is absolutely delightful. Thank you so much, Michelle and Sandra!

Secondly, I now have this image of Mogaru fighting a bunch of G-Pop Stans. Spoiler alert: it doesn't look good for His Majesty.


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I love little bits about people just going about their daily lives in fantasy worlds like this


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Arcade games and k-pop bands, not something I expected to see in Golarion, but boy do I love it.


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This was surprising and delightful


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Do you just add playable Street Fighter arcade machines into Pathfinder?!


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Approximate cantrip in action!
Very nice story and a good example of how to present modern themes in the fantasy setting.

Dark Archive

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Eeeh, its fun story, but I still I do kinda question having arcade and equivalent of pop music bands in fantasy setting?

I mean, its one of those things that make setting feel like "modern setting with everything technological having magical equivalent instead" and not in the way like Final Fantasy where they have guns and wannabe super soldiers with buster swords co exist :'D

I do know there is audience for starbucks coffee jokes in D&D, but at same time its one of those things that kinda conflicts with high fantasy? Sure pathfinder is more of pulp fantasy, but still yeah.

(I do hate I'm being the grouch here this time x'D Story is fun and well written, but I'm conditioned by players to be cautious of humorous things breaking immersion)

Verdant Wheel

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Zero the Nothing wrote:
Do you just add playable Street Fighter arcade machines into Pathfinder?!

+1

Grand Lodge

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CorvusMask wrote:

Eeeh, its fun story, but I still I do kinda question having arcade and equivalent of pop music bands in fantasy setting?

I mean, its one of those things that make setting feel like "modern setting with everything technological having magical equivalent instead" and not in the way like Final Fantasy where they have guns and wannabe super soldiers with buster swords co exist :'D

I do know there is audience for starbucks coffee jokes in D&D, but at same time its one of those things that kinda conflicts with high fantasy? Sure pathfinder is more of pulp fantasy, but still yeah.

(I do hate I'm being the grouch here this time x'D Story is fun and well written, but I'm conditioned by players to be cautious of humorous things breaking immersion)

Exactly predictable and repeatable magic breeds science. Science breeds technology.


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CorvusMask wrote:
Eeeh, its fun story, but I still I do kinda question having arcade and equivalent of pop music bands in fantasy setting?

The opening reminded me of the opening scene of the Big Hero Six movie. Or maybe battlebots. Like you said, kinda a tech-modern take on magic.

But, that's okay. Kinda nice in a way to see Tian-Xia take magic in a different direction from "Merlin" style western fantasy or even some of the more trope-ish takes on eastern magic. Breaking us out of our preconceptions can be a good thing.

Grand Lodge

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Easl wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
Eeeh, its fun story, but I still I do kinda question having arcade and equivalent of pop music bands in fantasy setting?

The opening reminded me of the opening scene of the Big Hero Six movie. Or maybe battlebots. Like you said, kinda a tech-modern take on magic.

But, that's okay. Kinda nice in a way to see Tian-Xia take magic in a different direction from "Merlin" style western fantasy or even some of the more trope-ish takes on eastern magic. Breaking us out of our preconceptions can be a good thing.

This is a good point too. Western magic can be way too focused on the mythologization of the philosopher-king, making Big Things happen through force of will.

Dark Archive

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Isn't that kinda skipping aside that there aren't arcades or pop bands in eastern mythology either?

Like main thing is that its kinda hard to have mythological feeling and modern feeling co-exist.

Either way, I don't mind them playing magical game, its mostly how modern the whole setup with arcade for youngsters to socialize, play games and buy snackfood feels.

Can't really comment on school life stuff since in nation where national education exists, of course its going to be different from era where it didn't. I imagine school life itself wasn't THAT different from 1940s and 2010s except regarding stuff you do in free time and what they teach. So I'm fine with that tbh. Pop bands themselves are kinda product of entertainment industry in my cynical view at least and hence why it stood out to me.

Scarab Sages

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Maybe King Mogaru wants to see the band too?


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CorvusMask wrote:

Isn't that kinda skipping aside that there aren't arcades or pop bands in eastern mythology either?

Like main thing is that its kinda hard to have mythological feeling and modern feeling co-exist.

Either way, I don't mind them playing magical game, its mostly how modern the whole setup with arcade for youngsters to socialize, play games and buy snackfood feels.

Can't really comment on school life stuff since in nation where national education exists, of course its going to be different from era where it didn't. I imagine school life itself wasn't THAT different from 1940s and 2010s except regarding stuff you do in free time and what they teach. So I'm fine with that tbh. Pop bands themselves are kinda product of entertainment industry in my cynical view at least and hence why it stood out to me.

Remember it's not all of Tian Xia it's Goka.

I suspect they're approaching Tian Xia just like Avistan.

For example if you want classic knights in shining armor fantasy you go to the Shining Kingdoms. If you want gothic horror fantasy you go to the Eye of Dread. If you want gonzo magic you go to the Impossible Lands.

If Goka is too modern for you a different part of Tian Xia will likely fit your tastes better.

Liberty's Edge

Spamotron wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:

Isn't that kinda skipping aside that there aren't arcades or pop bands in eastern mythology either?

Like main thing is that its kinda hard to have mythological feeling and modern feeling co-exist.

Either way, I don't mind them playing magical game, its mostly how modern the whole setup with arcade for youngsters to socialize, play games and buy snackfood feels.

Can't really comment on school life stuff since in nation where national education exists, of course its going to be different from era where it didn't. I imagine school life itself wasn't THAT different from 1940s and 2010s except regarding stuff you do in free time and what they teach. So I'm fine with that tbh. Pop bands themselves are kinda product of entertainment industry in my cynical view at least and hence why it stood out to me.

Remember it's not all of Tian Xia it's Goka.

I suspect they're approaching Tian Xia just like Avistan.

For example if you want classic knights in shining armor fantasy you go to the Shining Kingdoms. If you want gothic horror fantasy you go to the Eye of Dread. If you want gonzo magic you go to the Impossible Lands.

If Goka is too modern for you a different part of Tian Xia will likely fit your tastes better.

I admit it did feel a bit too modern to me at first (specifically the arcade games with levers, which I do not see on the picture AFAICT). But then I realized this was set in Goka. So, it's OK to me.

Extraordinary city can be significantly different from my expectations without breaking suspension of disbelief.


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CorvusMask wrote:

Eeeh, its fun story, but I still I do kinda question having arcade and equivalent of pop music bands in fantasy setting?

I mean, its one of those things that make setting feel like "modern setting with everything technological having magical equivalent instead" and not in the way like Final Fantasy where they have guns and wannabe super soldiers with buster swords co exist :'D

I do know there is audience for starbucks coffee jokes in D&D, but at same time its one of those things that kinda conflicts with high fantasy? Sure pathfinder is more of pulp fantasy, but still yeah.

(I do hate I'm being the grouch here this time x'D Story is fun and well written, but I'm conditioned by players to be cautious of humorous things breaking immersion)

The Inner Sea has nanomachine-filled androids living right next door to a bunch of illiterate Gothic villagers, but this is a bridge too far?


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

There are several nation-states in Tian Xia that (going all the way back to their introduction in PF(1)) have had technical and technological marvels.

The continent as a whole has had (at least as of those writings) two or three Empires that spanned most of it, and there's even a section that has a crashed sky-city in it.

So 'Golarion-equivalent' arcade games sound viable.

I wonder if there will be 'more' schools beyond what is due to come out in PC2(RM). This story teases at the possibility.


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I would also like to point out that it is know that older civilizations did have things that to our modern eyes *feel modern* and feel like anachronisms.(not to the level of video games I'll admit) In a world with magic that actually supplements those things it makes sense that we might see even more modern ideas pop up.

Like let's break down an arcade, it is a public space that while for commercial use is also used to foster community and social interaction. It is a place for entertainment. Typically stationary. Now if this was just for magical duels or some magical chess table(or some equivalent tabletop game) that might be closer to what people might expect from fantasy, but are magical equivalencies to video games too far off from either of those concepts.

And in a world with magic and more access to education, skills are probably more open to the public. So I could see a situation where that then allows for people of all sorts to rise up in famy and popularity for there skills whatever they maybe. Fame, fortune and such wouldnt be nessecarilly be exclusive to nobility, royalty, or adventurers.

Liberty's Edge

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I think the "bridge" people are talking about is the fact that this story and the characterization depicted here that Goka is effectively a carbon copy of South Korea complete with the same names you'd find there (this, in particular, is one thing that sticks out the most, the rest of the "western" nations have very few, if any, NPCs or important characters with names like Charles, John, Aaron, Dwayne, Audrey, Jennifer etc), the types of food, everpresent advertising, themes, bird-measuring surrounding schooling/education, and the cultural obsession with both esports and pop music/idols.

I thought that Tian Xia was supposed to be loosely based on Asia in general and that the lore related to the nations of it was going to be inspired by it rather than the regions being depicted by way of intentionally leaning into stereotypes about said cultures. Sure, the content of the story doesn't lean into negative stereotypes and connotations of SK much but the connection between the region and this real nation is so on-the-nose it might as well have been lifted from a piece of fiction written for an anachronistic alternate universe where magic exists on earth.

Maybe it's just this story that will be an outlier and the setting info won't lean so heavily into real-world cultural and regional parallels, but at this point, with this being a promotional piece to sell the book and drum up hype I'd think it would align with the intent and tone of the book.


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i agree that the use of the word arcade was not the best choice here to maintain the fantasy theming. Kids playing magic simulated fighting games doesn't take me out of the fantasy element, they just needed a word that didn't evoke a modern sense of videogaming.

Sometimes a word choice comes loaded with too much meaning and its not like there isnt a plethora of other ways to get the idea across.

That said I don't think it ruins anything about the setting itself.

Grand Archive

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Fun fact: what we now know as arcades are named like that because they were in shopping malls... and arcades was the old name for them.

Vocabulary.com wrote:
The word's roots go back to the Latin word "arcus," which means arc or bow. An arched, covered passageway with shops or stalls on the sides is also called an arcade and was a precursor to the shopping mall. The Burlington Arcade in London opened in 1819 and was the first shopping arcade of its kind in Britain.

Considering that rapiers really only became popular in the 17th century, and Pathfinder have them... :P At least the word was contemporary to a loosely analogue we can make.

(Not that I think we have to make parallels to our IRL history to justify using some terms and stuff... They don't actually speak English on Golarion at all, so the writers always tell us to consider the specific terms used as "best translation" they can make for alien terms that probably don't have 1:1 English analogs. And anyway, there's magic. And and, actually, IMHO, fantasy can be anything. It's in the name. "Fantasy", based on phantasms, making the imagination appear. If you can imagine it, it can be part of fantasy.)


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I'd also remind everyone that Golarion is a world where civilization has been up and running several thousand years longer than it has on Earth, with the extra help of magic tangibly existing. Airships have been around in canon forever, and at least one country literally had a space program. Clockwork constructs smarter than IRL robots are completely blasé in this setting.

Please, let the Fantasy Asia be as fantastical and anachronistic as the Fantasy Europe has always been allowed to be. If this particular flavor irks you, there's an easy fix: stay out of Goka and go to anywhere else, the same way the kitchen sink has always worked for Pathfinder.


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Themetricsystem wrote:

I think the "bridge" people are talking about is the fact that this story and the characterization depicted here that Goka is effectively a carbon copy of South Korea complete with the same names you'd find there (this, in particular, is one thing that sticks out the most, the rest of the "western" nations have very few, if any, NPCs or important characters with names like Charles, John, Aaron, Dwayne, Audrey, Jennifer etc), the types of food, everpresent advertising, themes, bird-measuring surrounding schooling/education, and the cultural obsession with both esports and pop music/idols.

I thought that Tian Xia was supposed to be loosely based on Asia in general and that the lore related to the nations of it was going to be inspired by it rather than the regions being depicted by way of intentionally leaning into stereotypes about said cultures. Sure, the content of the story doesn't lean into negative stereotypes and connotations of SK much but the connection between the region and this real nation is so on-the-nose it might as well have been lifted from a piece of fiction written for an anachronistic alternate universe where magic exists on earth.

Haru, Nga, and Momo are not South Korean names. You're telling on yourself, here.

Liberty's Edge

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Themetricsystem wrote:
Goka is effectively a carbon copy of South Korea complete with the same names you'd find there (this, in particular, is one thing that sticks out the most, the rest of the "western" nations have very few, if any, NPCs or important characters with names like Charles, John, Aaron, Dwayne, Audrey, Jennifer etc), the types of food, everpresent advertising, themes, bird-measuring surrounding schooling/education, and the cultural obsession with both esports and pop music/idols.
keftiu wrote:
Haru, Nga, and Momo are not South Korean names. You're telling on yourself, here.

Indeed. They're more Japanese and Vietnamese names than SK. You can even see that with how they're structured. Try https://culturalatlas.sbs.com.au/south-korean-culture/south-korean-culture- naming or even https://centers.ibs.re.kr/html/living_en/overview/korean5.html


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keftiu wrote:

I'd also remind everyone that Golarion is a world where civilization has been up and running several thousand years longer than it has on Earth, with the extra help of magic tangibly existing. Airships have been around in canon forever, and at least one country literally had a space program. Clockwork constructs smarter than IRL robots are completely blasé in this setting.

Please, let the Fantasy Asia be as fantastical and anachronistic as the Fantasy Europe has always been allowed to be. If this particular flavor irks you, there's an easy fix: stay out of Goka and go to anywhere else, the same way the kitchen sink has always worked for Pathfinder.

That's a good point and one I agree with, I am not advocating for something less fantastical. I didn't find the activity or magic gaming itself as misplaced for the setting.

My thought is more along the lines of something like calling an airship an airplane. Airplane takes me out of the fantasy where as airship keeps the fantasy vibes for me.


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Bluemagetim wrote:
My thought is more along the lines of something like calling an airship an airplane. Airplane takes me out of the fantasy where as airship keeps the fantasy vibes for me.

Why is a technology that was invented in the late 1800s more 'fantasy' than one invented in 1903? What does the distinction matter when this setting has irradiated cyborgs in one corner of it, too?


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keftiu wrote:
Bluemagetim wrote:
My thought is more along the lines of something like calling an airship an airplane. Airplane takes me out of the fantasy where as airship keeps the fantasy vibes for me.

Why is a technology that was invented in the late 1800s more 'fantasy' than one invented in 1903? What does the distinction matter when this setting has irradiated cyborgs in one corner of it, too?

I'm not really saying that either or going down that line of argument of what qualifies and what doesn't. What is depicted in that room with the kids is so far beyond anything I have ever seen in my actual life. It looks and feels fantasy to me. It just doesn't look like an arcade to me.

Liberty's Edge

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It all comes down to anachronisms and each of us can react differently. See Sparkle Tea or Shining Crystal Muses, the Goka Pop band.

Anyway, it is not easy to describe something modern from the POV of a fantasy character and still get the meaning across to the modern reader.

Perhaps something along the lines of, "The tavern hall/Jiǔ sì, was alive with the roar of competition... miniature enchanted figures battled on the wooden surface of their table, brought to life by skilled illusionists," as an example rewording.


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Anorak wrote:

It all comes down to anachronisms and each of us can react differently. See Sparkle Tea or Shining Crystal Muses, the Goka Pop band.

Anyway, it is not easy to describe something modern from the POV of a fantasy character and still get the meaning across to the modern reader.

Perhaps something along the lines of, "The tavern hall/Jiǔ sì, was alive with the roar of competition... miniature enchanted figures battled on the wooden surface of their table, brought to life by skilled illusionists," as an example rewording.

That is certainly better then any wording i would put together.

It is completely subjective I admit, each of us construct in our minds the scene based on the words chosen for the page and "arcade" takes me to my younger days in mall arcades busy with younger people in jeans and tshirts putting quarters in the game machines and on the display for a fighting game waiting for their turn to control a joystick and mash buttons while staring at the screens, or sitting in a mock car or holding a mock gun. All of this fill my head when I hear that word.

So what happens for me as I read the passage I have to retrain my understanding with the rest of the context given to try and see what the author is intending. Which i dont think is the same as the imagery that I described above.

Community and Social Media Specialist

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I appreciate the back and forth but lets please tone it down a bit. We arent there yet, but I can see this getting a little out of hand.


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I apologize keftiu and Anorak if I came off in a way that is confrontational. It was not my intention.


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Bluemagetim wrote:
I apologize keftiu and Anorak if I came off in a way that is confrontational. It was not my intention.

Nah, not at all - and I'll say the same in turn <3

Liberty's Edge

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Bluemagetim wrote:
I apologize keftiu and Anorak if I came off in a way that is confrontational. It was not my intention.

Likewise and ditto! :)


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keftiu wrote:
Bluemagetim wrote:
My thought is more along the lines of something like calling an airship an airplane. Airplane takes me out of the fantasy where as airship keeps the fantasy vibes for me.

Why is a technology that was invented in the late 1800s more 'fantasy' than one invented in 1903? What does the distinction matter when this setting has irradiated cyborgs in one corner of it, too?

I'm Canadian; whenever I read a British friend write about an "aeroplane", I automatically picture something from like the early 1900s.

I think it's like, "airplane" for me is a normal everyday word for a normal everyday thing that exists, that I see overhead regularly, and that I've travelled via (although not recently). "Aeroplane" however is an EXOTIC spelling (to my Canadian self) and thus does NOT imply "normal thing" but rather UNUSUAL thing.

(Yes, I know that England English and Canadian English are equally as valid as each other, neither is "exotic" nor "normative"; this is just a my-perspective thing.)

Like the difference between "John" and "Djaun"; the first is pretty much the most normal/boring name that exists in English, so you WILL have something come to mind whenever you read it (person you know personally, fictional character, concept of 'John Doe', etc). The second though there's nothing attached to it, so it can feel more fantastical.

Not limited to pseudo-medieval fantasy stuff either; you get the same thing with science fiction, and I'd say historical fiction too but that's not my preferred genre so I can't be sure. If you use the name of a thing people know and might have encountered, then they assume it's that kind of thing, which might throw them off if it conflicts with their expectation of the setting.

(...which now gives me a hypothesis about the use of RP English in fantasy productions, if very few people have that as their native dialect and thus it'll always sound "not modern / not from around here", in addition to the whole "class" issue, but that's like the topic for a doctoral thesis or seven.)

"The past is a different country", so old-fashioned terms -- if they're sufficiently old -- sound "not from around here" or "exotic". We don't have as much of a set image of what they can or can't be. Plus other writers have figured that out, adding fantastical things to our hazy image of what it might be.

Anyways, that's why "airship" feels more fantasy than "airplane".

Paizo Employee Senior Designer

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I call these “Faire Princess Tiffany”s because Tiffany is a name that tends to sound modern—Audrey Hepburn and department stores and all that—but it’s actually just the English version of the name “Theophania”. My favorite Faire Princess Tiffany is the vending machine, which has been around since Ancient Rome.

In any event, Goka’s meant to be the most cosmopolitan and metropolitan location on the continent, and I love how Michelle (and Shao Han, the section author) have really made the advances and cultural crossovers front and center!

As to whether Alley Bashers is like Street Fighter, hmm… it seems to have lateral movement as a part of the strategy… so maybe more like Gokan magitech Tekken (Magitekken)?


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Hello! Shao Han here; I wrote the Goka section for the World Guide (as well as Alkenstar for Impossible Lands, which is another advanced megacity, so I might just have a liking for writing metropolises in Golarion). I really liked the story by Michelle, and am happy to see my section expanded upon in this fiction. (I also feel summoned by James, because I just happened to read this discussion a little after James posted...)

A ramble: as a Singaporean Chinese growing up in the 1980s and 1990s, video arcades were a huge part of my childhood; my biggest loves were comic books, RPGs, and arcade games, all of which my parents and elders forbade me from enjoying. They threw away my books and games, which made me want to play and read even more, and I ended up in many semi-legal or outright illegal video arcades run basically by gangsters and loan sharks. Why did I go to these exciting places? Because the legal arcades forbade students from entering them during daytime hours, so off to the red light districts and secret shady shops we went. I was supposed to go to tuition, cram schools, to mug for my exams, but I skipped class all the time, and met some of my best friends in these arcades, got into brawls, got chased by teachers, got dragged in front of my ancestral shrine to apologise for not doing well in school and playing video games, reading manga, the works.

Now, are these experiences things which I put into my work on Goka? To some degree, perhaps; it's not just about my own experiences of course. If you've spent time in Hong Kong or Taiwan as well, the more rough-and-rumble aspects of arcade cultures have some similarity with my own childhood and youth experiences. (A cool study of arcade cultures in Hong Kong, complete with the wuxia / jianghu analogies we gave arcade duels in the subcultures of the Sinosphere... https://gamestudies.org/06010601/articles/ng)

Are these experiences perhaps understandable, approachable, interesting to people outside the Chinese diaspora? This intersection of student rebellion, youth culture, stresses, search for competence and camaraderie in a pressure cooker environment?

I believe so... For me as an Asian citizen and scholar, I wanted, in my work, to give a taste of the feeling of that transient high and constant tension, the rush of feeling young and dangerous, that represent some of the feelings and dreams of youths in Asia. Perhaps they are anachronisms, but, hmm.. I don't really think they are stereotypes or cliches, per se... If they are, I hope they are heartfelt. These are lived experiences, that I hope to evoke, emulate, and share with everyone who visits Goka in this edition. I am glad and very grateful to have been given the chance to work on Tian Xia for this generation of RPG players. :)


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Also... I hope more people will appreciate and find out about the Southeast Asian phenomena that are kopi-tiams, mentioned as the place where the girls were having their post-basher snacks!

Kopi is coffee in Malay, tiam is 店 (shop; it's dian in Mandarin, diam or tiam in Hokkien), so kopi-tiam is a coffee shop. You'll find them in places across Southeast Asia; Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, Brunei, etc, and of course, my home of Singapore, anywhere with a Chinese diaspora in Southeast Asia. These eateries, often open-air, serve far more than coffee, of course; tea, snacks, full meals of diverse cuisines and cultures. What people think of as "hawker centres" are oftentimes just really big "kopi-tiams".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_tiam


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James Case wrote:

I call these “Faire Princess Tiffany”s because Tiffany is a name that tends to sound modern—Audrey Hepburn and department stores and all that—but it’s actually just the English version of the name “Theophania”. My favorite Faire Princess Tiffany is the vending machine, which has been around since Ancient Rome.

In any event, Goka’s meant to be the most cosmopolitan and metropolitan location on the continent, and I love how Michelle (and Shao Han, the section author) have really made the advances and cultural crossovers front and center!

As to whether Alley Bashers is like Street Fighter, hmm… it seems to have lateral movement as a part of the strategy… so maybe more like Gokan magitech Tekken (Magitekken)?

Huh. I knew about a few Roman FPTs, but not that one. You learn something new every day!

ETA: They had apartments, food carts, and famous athletes would endorse products. Oh, and they also discovered steam power but couldn't figure out how to use it.

Grand Lodge

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keftiu wrote:
Bluemagetim wrote:
My thought is more along the lines of something like calling an airship an airplane. Airplane takes me out of the fantasy where as airship keeps the fantasy vibes for me.
Why is a technology that was invented in the late 1800s more 'fantasy' than one invented in 1903? What does the distinction matter when this setting has irradiated cyborgs in one corner of it, too?

For me it's because airships, now, are "a more elegant [aircraft] for a more civilized age" while airplanes are the mildly inconvenient people-cans we stuff ourselves into for several hours to get to a business meeting.

Romanticism vs. familiarity and vaguely uncomfortable memories.


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Kittyburger wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Bluemagetim wrote:
My thought is more along the lines of something like calling an airship an airplane. Airplane takes me out of the fantasy where as airship keeps the fantasy vibes for me.
Why is a technology that was invented in the late 1800s more 'fantasy' than one invented in 1903? What does the distinction matter when this setting has irradiated cyborgs in one corner of it, too?

For me it's because airships, now, are "a more elegant [aircraft] for a more civilized age" while airplanes are the mildly inconvenient people-cans we stuff ourselves into for several hours to get to a business meeting.

Romanticism vs. familiarity and vaguely uncomfortable memories.

I'm forced to reckon with the fact that not everyone has flown on a blimp before. My childhood was weird!


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keftiu wrote:
Kittyburger wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Bluemagetim wrote:
My thought is more along the lines of something like calling an airship an airplane. Airplane takes me out of the fantasy where as airship keeps the fantasy vibes for me.
Why is a technology that was invented in the late 1800s more 'fantasy' than one invented in 1903? What does the distinction matter when this setting has irradiated cyborgs in one corner of it, too?

For me it's because airships, now, are "a more elegant [aircraft] for a more civilized age" while airplanes are the mildly inconvenient people-cans we stuff ourselves into for several hours to get to a business meeting.

Romanticism vs. familiarity and vaguely uncomfortable memories.

I'm forced to reckon with the fact that not everyone has flown on a blimp before. My childhood was weird!

That must have been fun! It's worth pointing out that planes weren't always like that. The differences in the classes weren't always so stark.

Liberty's Edge

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moondreamlake wrote:


Are these experiences perhaps understandable, approachable, interesting to people outside the Chinese diaspora? This intersection of student...

100%! Thank you for the wonderful information and explanation, Shao Han!


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Anorak - you're most welcome! I look forward to being able to talk more about Goka (and the rest of Tian Xia) when the books come out :)))

Something bout "Alley Bashers"... I was somewhat inspired by some things from the descriptions of Goka in 1e, but I guess that's all I can say for now! I can probably talk about that inspiration process, when the World Guide releases.

(One more tidbit that few might know about Asian "arcades"; here in Singapore, we used to have these shops which were totally normal storefronts, maybe they sold yoghurt, clothes, general supplies, and at the back, nestled in some corner where their excess stock is kept/ where they hollowed out an office.. they would basically plug in a few entertainment devices. You would pay a dollar or two per hour to rent the machines and tvs, basically the more expensive rates are for fancy 16-bit SNES or Mega Drives, the most premium then was the 32-bit Neo Geo rigs. I was poor so I would play the 8-bit games, cos they were cheaper to rent. the somewhat worried-looking shopkeeper, who then ushered you to the back, gave you a controller and choice of games, and would cut the power once your time was up.

Since arcades weren't allowing us delinquents in, and we didn't really want to go to the dodgiest places with the toughest kids - those were actual recruiting grounds for the Golden League, I guess - the arcades we ended up frequenting were actual shopping arcades, selling all kinds of consumer goods, from cheongsams and kettles to cakes and incense, secretly hiding kids trying to run away from exam stress and imposing parental pressures
...)

Grand Lodge

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Evan Tarlton wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Kittyburger wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Bluemagetim wrote:
My thought is more along the lines of something like calling an airship an airplane. Airplane takes me out of the fantasy where as airship keeps the fantasy vibes for me.
Why is a technology that was invented in the late 1800s more 'fantasy' than one invented in 1903? What does the distinction matter when this setting has irradiated cyborgs in one corner of it, too?

For me it's because airships, now, are "a more elegant [aircraft] for a more civilized age" while airplanes are the mildly inconvenient people-cans we stuff ourselves into for several hours to get to a business meeting.

Romanticism vs. familiarity and vaguely uncomfortable memories.

I'm forced to reckon with the fact that not everyone has flown on a blimp before. My childhood was weird!
That must have been fun! It's worth pointing out that planes weren't always like that. The differences in the classes weren't always so stark.

I mean yes but also no. Before the development of three-class airline travel, the hoi polloi didn't fly - they rode on intercity rail. So if you were flying on an airplane, you were already among the upper class and you weren't dealing with the rabble.

During the "Golden Age of Air Travel," you would pay close to a month's salary for the privilege if you were an average person, and planes crashed a LOT more. The Lockheed Electra four-engine turboprop airliner was sarcastically referred to as the most reliable three-engine airplane ever built. It wasn't until the Boeing 747 entered wide service in the 1970s and especially with the introduction of the Airbus A300 in the early 1980s that airplanes were seen as being as reliable as ground-based travel.

So yeah, amenities were nicer, but that was because flying itself was reserved as a privilege for the upper class. You can still get that level of amenities on a modern flight - you just have to pay for a business class or first class ticket.

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