Class Is in Session! Strength of Thousands Player’s Guide

I was already onboard, but you’ve really eloquently convinced me - thank you for the reasoned response! All of those Anathema sans Wild make perfect sense for the Magaambya to uphold as proper virtues of its students.

Having a Magaambyan wizard locked into the druid anathema (because they are stuck with the Druid Dedication for their free archetype feats) is probably less restrictive than it may seem.

General druid anathema: Using metal armor or shields; despoiling natural places; teaching the Druidic language to non-druids (or those with the Druid Dedication).

Wizards normally wouldn't be wearing metal armor or using metal shields. Those studying at Magaambya probably wouldn't start clear-cutting, strip-mining, or otherwise causing issues. Not teaching Druidic is pretty easy.

The druid anathema does restrict armor wizards, which I've seen a fair share of. That said players could just as easily build an Armor Arcane Witch or Sorcerer.

Otherwise, yes, your point on the druid anathema is correct. I think the FA rulw for SoT is fine as-is, especially if the PCs can branch off into the Magaambya archetypes.

My counterpoint is as follows :

- I want to play a Druid. I am perfectly happy with the anathema of both my Class and my Order => I will get the free Wizard dedication, ie more power and no additional anathema. Great.

- I want to play a Class that is neither Druid nor Wizard. I am greatly interested by the free Druid dedication and I am okay with their anathemas. Great.

- I want to play a Class that is neither Druid nor Wizard. I do not want to be saddled with the Druid's anathemas, so I will take the free Wizard dedication, ie more power and no additional anathema. Great.

- I want to play a Wizard. I am greatly interested by the free Druid dedication and I am okay with their anathemas. Great.

- I want to play a Wizard. I do not want to be saddled with the Druid's anathemas, but I will have no choice.

Leaves a sour taste that one of the only two Classes favored by the Academy offers less possibilities for character building (because forced anathemas) than any Class that has nothing to do with it.

I would have preferred that the free archetype option would have stayed that (ie optional) for those who already respected the cursus of the academy (ie prepared Primal or Arcane magic).

In fact, it is easier by the PG to play an Evil PC in the great Good academy than to play a Good Wizard who merely does not wish for Druidic anathemas.

Uskwood Druidic Student of the Magaambya for the win.

If you're considering changing the free archetype to something other than Wizard or Druid, that's fine--it's your game! Before you do, consult the Life in the Academy article in Kindled Magic. That is going to give a lot of the things people here are wanting the free archetype rule to give them. If your GM is going to use this (or, if as a GM, you're going to use it), check that.

To anticipate a question about why these rules were put into the adventure, where GMs see them, rather than right into the Player's Guide: they're a little more spoiler-y regarding when we expect players to hit certain ranks within the Magaambya during the AP, so we wanted to put it into GM's hands to decide.

We know that druid multiclassing requires the anathema; it's by design that the Magaambyan AP leans into primal casters that don't wear metal armor, don't despoil the land, and so on. If you have no desire to play anything other than that kind of wizard, see if your GM will allow you to forego the free archetype entirely, maybe.

As the most mild of spoilers:

Your branch is a major you choose based on your interests and values, not something you get arbitrarily assigned to by a rude magical item.

Yes, and it's something you get a chance early on to change, if you're unhappy with your first choice. AND there are rules about switching branches later. People change college majors all the time--I sure did.

There were a couple surprises in this one.

One I was actually expecting them to get the free first archetype feat at first level so the martial characters would have cantrips at level 1. For a second I almost balked, although it occurred to me that the potential was there and that as training starts at the school, it might not be an assumption that everyone can cast even cantrips at the start.

No spoilers, but we got you on this.

I think the biggest issue I have with the implementation of the Free Archetype (and the change I will suggest) is that while it's fine to restrict the free archetype to Wizard or Druid, it's a little harsh to restrict all of the bonus feats from free Archetype to those two classes. So you get Wizard or Druid at level 2, but your subsequent "Free Archetype" feats can be spent on Wizard, Druid, and GM-approved thematically appropriate archetype feats as you wish.

Since the primary reason we like "Free Archetype" is that it opens up more choices and complexity of character building. If you're just spending your 10 feats on Wizard or Druid, then you're mostly just slotting the basic, expert, master, breadth feats in at their levels and cherrypicking class feats otherwise.

I think the biggest issue I have with the implementation of the Free Archetype (and the change I will suggest) is that while it's fine to restrict the free archetype to Wizard or Druid, it's a little harsh to restrict all of the bonus feats from free Archetype to those two classes. So you get Wizard or Druid at level 2, but your subsequent "Free Archetype" feats can be spent on Wizard, Druid, and GM-approved thematically appropriate archetype feats as you wish.

Since the primary reason we like "Free Archetype" is that it opens up more choices and complexity of character building. If you're just spending your 10 feats on Wizard or Druid, then you're mostly just slotting the basic, expert, master, breadth feats in at their levels and cherrypicking class feats otherwise.

Umm, is it though? Like free archetype is variant rule with multiple different implementations in first place, the "everyone has same archetype" is implementation example it seems to be made up for in first place based on game mastery guide.(e.g. everyone in pirate campaign having pirate archetype)

Also you are still allowed to pick other archetypes even at level 2 though.

(but yeah, I'm in general weirded out by people complaining about "hey here is something bonus for everyone". Like I think its perfectly valid to have only single option available for bonus archetype, so two is pretty luxurious. Having it be "free archetype feat for any spellcasting archetype" would be too much freedom in my opinion mostly because amount of choices is kinda like... Well you might as well just have "use the free archetype feat for any archetype you want" category. There are a lot of different spellcasters and I don't really see this as religious or occult campaign)

Aaaaaaand now I want an “everyone gets Occult casting” in an AP. Bonus points if it’s not set in Ustalav.

Aaaaaaand now I want an “everyone gets Occult casting” in an AP. Bonus points if it’s not set in Ustalav.

You want a Taldor Lion Blades espionage AP?

Cause this is how you get a Taldor Lion Blades espionage AP.

keftiu wrote:

Aaaaaaand now I want an “everyone gets Occult casting” in an AP. Bonus points if it’s not set in Ustalav.

You want a Taldor Lion Blades espionage AP?

Cause this is how you get a Taldor Lion Blades espionage AP.

I'm down with that. War For The Crown is ripe for a sequel.

Rysky wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Aaaaaaand now I want an “everyone gets Occult casting” in an AP. Bonus points if it’s not set in Ustalav.

You want a Taldor Lion Blades espionage AP?

Cause this is how you get a Taldor Lion Blades espionage AP.

I'm down with that. War For The Crown is ripe for a sequel.

I'd much rather see a spiritual successor set in Qadira, if I'm being honest.

Evan Tarlton wrote:

Rysky wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Aaaaaaand now I want an “everyone gets Occult casting” in an AP. Bonus points if it’s not set in Ustalav.

You want a Taldor Lion Blades espionage AP?

Cause this is how you get a Taldor Lion Blades espionage AP.

I'm down with that. War For The Crown is ripe for a sequel.

I'd much rather see a spiritual successor set in Qadira, if I'm being honest.

That would also be cool. A secret agent AP with an abolitionist bent would be all kinds of awesome.

Evan Tarlton wrote:

Rysky wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Aaaaaaand now I want an “everyone gets Occult casting” in an AP. Bonus points if it’s not set in Ustalav.

You want a Taldor Lion Blades espionage AP?

Cause this is how you get a Taldor Lion Blades espionage AP.

I'm down with that. War For The Crown is ripe for a sequel.

I'd much rather see a spiritual successor set in Qadira, if I'm being honest.

War for the Crown is awesome, but yeah Qadira political intrigue campaign as "other side of the coin" spiritual sequel would work very well considering Taldor's and Qadira's relationship

My counterpoint is as follows :

- I want to play a Druid. I am perfectly happy with the anathema of both my Class and my Order => I will get the free Wizard dedication, ie more power and no additional anathema. Great.

- I want to play a Class that is neither Druid nor Wizard. I am greatly interested by the free Druid dedication and I am okay with their anathemas. Great.

- I want to play a Class that is neither Druid nor Wizard. I do not want to be saddled with the Druid's anathemas, so I will take the free Wizard dedication, ie more power and no additional anathema. Great.

- I want to play a Wizard. I am greatly interested by the free Druid dedication and I am okay with their anathemas. Great.

- I want to play a Wizard. I do not want to be saddled with the Druid's anathemas, but I will have no choice.

Leaves a sour taste that one of the only two Classes favored by the Academy offers less possibilities for character building (because forced anathemas) than any Class that has nothing to do with it.

I would have preferred that the free archetype option would have stayed that (ie optional) for those who already respected the cursus of the academy (ie prepared Primal or Arcane magic).

In fact, it is easier by the PG to play an Evil PC in the great Good academy than to play a Good Wizard who merely does not wish for Druidic anathemas.

Uskwood Druidic Student of the Magaambya for the win.

I respect this will leave a sour taste for some characters/players. But given your five examples, four being OK with it is not too bad. Of the multitude of subsets in these examples it might be one in a hundred characters that have a conflict.

On the flip-side, this kind of conflict could be good character development. How many characters (literary/movie/tv) can you name that were following a path someone else 'chose' for them? Dad was a doctor, I am in Med School. Mom is a judge, I am in law school. I spent all my efforts baking for study groups, realized I should be a baker not a chemist. The job prospects of an art major are so bleak... I should major in business instead. Mom & Dad work 7 days a week so I can go to college, I can't justify spending the weekends doing anything but studying. Etc.. How many RPG characters can you name who became adventurers to escape the farm or the family debts? :)

I do not mean to lessen the issue some players will have with the free archetype, merely to put said issue to work creating a richer character. I do like the idea of an evil Uskwood druid, hmmm...

...

Since the primary reason we like "Free Archetype" is that it opens up more choices and complexity of character building. If you're just spending your 10 feats on Wizard or Druid, then you're mostly just slotting the basic, expert, master, breadth feats in at their levels and cherrypicking class feats otherwise.

Huh. I hadn't even thought of upping to a full caster. I was thinking rogue, (who has a bit of charm spells and some invisibility). Or an eldritch archer. Or a champion of Nethys/Grandmother spider. Or a ki-spell monk (whose pet rat acts as a battery for focus spells EDIT: & taught him ninjitsu!)

Absolutely love the way Casting for Everyone works. Almost wish though that the Wizards and Druids had the option to diving into a Martial class as a free option, but just getting a free Arch Type is pretty freaking epic.

Rysky wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Aaaaaaand now I want an “everyone gets Occult casting” in an AP. Bonus points if it’s not set in Ustalav.

You want a Taldor Lion Blades espionage AP?

Cause this is how you get a Taldor Lion Blades espionage AP.

I'm down with that. War For The Crown is ripe for a sequel.

"On Her Majesty's Secret Service?"

I think in my game I'll leave it up to the Wizards if they want to take Druid Primal or Any Occult arche types. Forcing an Anathema on a player unwillingly feels punishing.

May even let them take a free martial instead and see how that plays out...

One point we should keep in mind is that the Player's Guide and the first volume of this AP came out before Secrets of Magic. That makes its multiclass dedication feats reasonable candidates for inclusion when they become available. Note that we cannot assume that any PC advances beyond that level of casting ability, as there is no way to compel a PC to take the appropriate Basic Spellcasting feat at any point.

Mechanically, the free archetype options of druid and wizard ensure that all PCs can prepare at least two cantrips each day and are trained in either Arcana or Nature. PCs who actually are druids or wizards automatically exceed these requirements, so from a mechanical point of view, it really doesn't matter what multiclass dedication feat they are granted at 2nd level.

The main issue is at the lore or flavor level. The PCs are at the Magaambya for the entirety of their adventuring time as 1st level PCs, so it would make sense to limit the free archetype to something that the Magaambya might actually instruct students in. Of the two new classes in Secrets of Magic, Magus seems like the more logical choice. But does that class's multiclass dedication feat grant the same minimum abilities as Wizard Dedication? If it does, it would make sense to offer it as a third choice for the free archetype; otherwise, it could be made available as an "advanced" option for PCs who meet the school's basic requirements through their original classes.

One point we should keep in mind is that the Player's Guide and the first volume of this AP came out before Secrets of Magic. That makes its multiclass dedication feats reasonable candidates for inclusion when they become available. Note that we cannot assume that any PC advances beyond that level of casting ability, as there is no way to compel a PC to take the appropriate Basic Spellcasting feat at any point.

Mechanically, the free archetype options of druid and wizard ensure that all PCs can prepare at least two cantrips each day and are trained in either Arcana or Nature. PCs who actually are druids or wizards automatically exceed these requirements, so from a mechanical point of view, it really doesn't matter what multiclass dedication feat they are granted at 2nd level.

The main issue is at the lore or flavor level. The PCs are at the Magaambya for the entirety of their adventuring time as 1st level PCs, so it would make sense to limit the free archetype to something that the Magaambya might actually instruct students in. Of the two new classes in Secrets of Magic, Magus seems like the more logical choice. But does that class's multiclass dedication feat grant the same minimum abilities as Wizard Dedication? If it does, it would make sense to offer it as a third choice for the free archetype; otherwise, it could be made available as an "advanced" option for PCs who meet the school's basic requirements through their original classes.

I like the idea that they learn the free Arche-Type at the Magaambya, but I also like the aspect that the students

There are multiple ways I could justify a Wizard picking up the Fighter Archetype as free, and there is just something in me that makes me not want to force an Anathema on a player who doesn't want to take it willingly. I mean, if they WANT to pull druid as their Archetype more power to them, but I have a hard time forcing negatives on the players if they don't find it enjoyable.

The GM could give a player of a druid or wizard wanting to take a non-standard archetype an interesting challenge at 1st level. While it can be assumed that there are more than enough instructors in druid or wizard magic, anyone intent on going for something else would have to find a teacher or fellow student who can train them in that new class and then befriend them so that they actually provide that training. So far, we do have positive confirmation of an alchemist and a witch, at a minimum.

There are multiple ways I could justify a Wizard picking up the Fighter Archetype as free, and there is just something in me that makes me not want to force an Anathema on a player who doesn't want to take it willingly. I mean, if they WANT to pull druid as their Archetype more power to them, but I have a hard time forcing negatives on the players if they don't find it enjoyable.

You could justify the opportunity for a wizard to be able to take the Fighter Dedication, but remember the primary focus of the Magaambya is to teach arcane and primal magic, not combat, occult magic, or other choices. Hence the free archetype choices of Druid and Wizard Dedications.

The free archetype is something to tie the PCs more closely to the Magaambya, not just a bonus to "help make the character you want."

I think the easiest solution would be to make ALL characters have to follow the druid anathema. Most probably will anyway. Seems thematic to me. Problem solved :-)

At least semi serious on that. Would definitely do that as a GM with some of the groups I game with, and definitely would NOT with others :-).

I think the easiest solution would be to make ALL characters have to follow the druid anathema. Most probably will anyway. Seems thematic to me. Problem solved :-)

At least semi serious on that. Would definitely do that as a GM with some of the groups I game with, and definitely would NOT with others :-).

That would be a solution. The druid anathema is only a problem because of its counterintuitive involuntary application to wizards and no other class.

I suppose that another solution might involve trying to find druid multiclassing feats that would not be undone for a character who habitually violates the anathema. The initial dedication feat is nullified because primal spellcasting is lost. Also lost is any ability dependent on order. What, if anything, does that leave?

I feel like the problem with making everybody wear metal armor, is that something like a Champion of Nethys with the Wizard dedication is a totally thematically appropriate character for this AP, but there is no heavy armor in print that is currently not made of metal, and while champions can work with lighter armors this doesn't seem to be a thing worth forcing players to do.

Yet

I think a better reason than the druid anathema to not wear metal armor is your character is living in a tropical rainforest. (Oh, so much sweat and rust.)

I think a better reason than the druid anathema to not wear metal armor is you're character is living in a tropical rainforest. (Oh, so much sweat and rust.)

But what if my Champion of Nethys with the wizard dedication wants to research a way to air condition plate mail?

Very promising, though I'm a bit surprised by the lack of a Sponsored by an Organization. I can easily see the Pathfinder Society, Aspic Consortium, and perhaps even the Technic League sponsoring people.

Very promising, though I'm a bit surprised by the lack of a Sponsored by an Organization. I can easily see the Pathfinder Society, Aspic Consortium, and perhaps even the Technic League sponsoring people.

The Technic League is dead.

pauljathome wrote:

I think the easiest solution would be to make ALL characters have to follow the druid anathema. Most probably will anyway. Seems thematic to me. Problem solved :-)

At least semi serious on that. Would definitely do that as a GM with some of the groups I game with, and definitely would NOT with others :-).

That would be a solution. The druid anathema is only a problem because of its counterintuitive involuntary application to wizards and no other class.

I suppose that another solution might involve trying to find druid multiclassing feats that would not be undone for a character who habitually violates the anathema. The initial dedication feat is nullified because primal spellcasting is lost. Also lost is any ability dependent on order. What, if anything, does that leave?

You lose all abilities granted by the Druid class. I would peg anything obtained from the archetype as such an ability.

Yoshua wrote:

There are multiple ways I could justify a Wizard picking up the Fighter Archetype as free, and there is just something in me that makes me not want to force an Anathema on a player who doesn't want to take it willingly. I mean, if they WANT to pull druid as their Archetype more power to them, but I have a hard time forcing negatives on the players if they don't find it enjoyable.

You could justify the opportunity for a wizard to be able to take the Fighter Dedication, but remember the primary focus of the Magaambya is to teach arcane and primal magic, not combat, occult magic, or other choices. Hence the free archetype choices of Druid and Wizard Dedications.

The free archetype is something to tie the PCs more closely to the Magaambya, not just a bonus to "help make the character you want."

Well, the Wizard and Druid students are already tied extremely closely to the Magaambya focus. Given the Cascade Bearer's Spellcasting Feat, I would open all prepared spellcasting classes MC Dedications to a Wizard or a Druid.

And yes. If I play this AP I will definitely play an Evil Uskwood Druid for the fun and the challenge.

Time to start some not so Good academic traditions in the Magaambya.

And yes. If I play this AP I will definitely play an Evil Uskwood Druid for the fun and the challenge.

You're obligated to go out and help people, but the Nidalese have some... idiosyncratic notions of "helping."

Yes. Sharing the beautiful wisdom of the Midnight Lord will definitely be high on the list. Also not being afraid of knowledge and wisdom, no matter its source.

Seems contrarianism to me but okay x'D

A nice thing about playing a character that's an odd fit for the thoroughly Neutral Good Magaambya is that since the only classes with alignment restrictions are ones that have a patron deity, then you can tell the story about a character who shows up genuinely seeking knowledge but who has some odd ideas because of the society they grew up in, and you can tell the story of how this person is changed by their time with the Magaambya.

Like I wouldn't run a Champion or Cleric of Asmodeus in this campaign, but an NE druid would potentially be really interesting.

Tea4Goblins wrote:

Very promising, though I'm a bit surprised by the lack of a Sponsored by an Organization. I can easily see the Pathfinder Society, Aspic Consortium, and perhaps even the Technic League sponsoring people.

The Technic League is dead.

. . . But a decent number of its members survived, and might have started reorganizing (although would likely at least try to come up with a different name, although if their Marketing people are a few frames short of a storyboard, they might accidentally blow their own cover in the making) . . . .

Just briefly read through the first book of the AP and something I don't think is addressed at least to me is familiars and animal companion.
Do they get to come to class?
Do they have to stay in a dorm?
Thoughts?

Good to have some Free Magaambya Stuff for PF2e with a Strength numbering in the Thousands. ;)

Coming Friday!
You and your fellow heroes arrive for your first day at the prestigious Magaambya school of magic. Thus begins Kindled Magic, Part 1 of the Strength of Thousands AP for Pathfinder2e. And Syrinscape will be there with the immersive audio and music!

A nice thing about playing a character that's an odd fit for the thoroughly Neutral Good Magaambya is that since the only classes with alignment restrictions are ones that have a patron deity, then you can tell the story about a character who shows up genuinely seeking knowledge but who has some odd ideas because of the society they grew up in, and you can tell the story of how this person is changed by their time with the Magaambya.

Like I wouldn't run a Champion or Cleric of Asmodeus in this campaign, but an NE druid would potentially be really interesting.

Uskwood Druid, foreign exchange student of Magaambya

Kindled Magic on Roll20 link

I clicked the player guide link on the adventure path. It brings up a player's guide for Starfinder.

Can someone send a link to the actual player's guide for Strength of Thousands?

The "Download the Strength of Thousands Player's Guide" link above works for me,

this should work

The Syrinscape SoundPack for Kindled Magic is now available!

I clicked the player guide link on the adventure path. It brings up a player's guide for Starfinder.

Can someone send a link to the actual player's guide for Strength of Thousands?

The link at the bottom of this blog works and we have corrected the link on the AP product page.