Welcome to the Advanced Player’s Guide Playtest!

Wednesday, October 9, 2019

Welcome to the Pathfinder Advanced Player’s Guide playtest! In the document below, you’ll find four new classes set to be introduced in the Advanced Player’s Guide in July 2020, but before we can add them to the game, we need your help to ensure they are the best they can be! To do that, we need you to create characters using these classes and give them a try. We’re hoping that each of these new characters offers you a style of play that’s enjoyable, effective, and distinct from the currently available classes, allowing you to tell even richer stories with diverse experiences in all modes of play.

Curious about what these classes are all about? Here is a brief synopsis of each to get your character ideas flowing.

  • The investigator is a savvy, street-smart character who takes cases to uncover clues and solve mysteries. This class ties to parts of the game that aren’t covered in depth in the Core Rulebook, so the playtest will see if their approach to solving mysteries is satisfying, while keeping the rules for the game as a whole flexible.
  • The oracle commands divine powers by drawing from universal concepts, casting powerful revelation spells that take a toll on their body and manifest as a double-edged curse. We want to make sure the curse effects are fun and engaging without disrupting the balance of the class compared to other characters. For the playtest, we’ve selected only a subset of mysteries, but there will be more in the final version.
  • The swashbuckler is the flamboyant daredevil of the battlefield, tumbling through foes and entering a heightened state to deliver devastating finishing blows. We’ll be testing a system that encourages them to gain panache, a state of bombastic flair that lets them use more powerful abilities. The playtest version emphasizes new rules specific to the class so that we can playtest those thoroughly, but the final version might pick up some of the fighter’s weapon feats suited to dueling.
  • The witch serves a mysterious patron entity, casting spells and hexes learned through a powerful familiar. This is the most flexible spellcasting class we’ve introduced, since it allows you to build your own path by selecting not only feats, but also lessons from your patron. We want to make sure those options work well both narratively and mechanically across all three of the spellcasting traditions the witch can gain access to.
A sketch of the Investigator, a bald man of African decent with a cane in one hand and perhaps a magnifying glass in the other, for the the Pathfinder Second Edition Advanced Players Guide Playtest. A sketch of the oracle, an anthropomorphic bird with a staff in one claw-like hand and magic surrounding the other, for the the Pathfinder Second Edition Advanced Players Guide Playtest. A sketch of the witch, a lithe woman of Asian decent with long hair, a wooden staff in one long finger-nailed hand and magic in the other, for the the Pathfinder Second Edition Advanced Players Guide Playtest.

Left to right: the Investigator, Oracle, Swashbuckler, and Witch.

How to Playtest

The playtest will run until December 2nd, 2019. We’re looking for your feedback, comments, and criticisms regarding these classes, but we’re focusing our attention on feedback from play. Make new characters, use them as PCs or adversaries, and run a few game sessions or encounters incorporating them!

What the Playtest Is, and What it Isn’t

When playtesting these classes, remember that almost anything can change based on the results of the playtest! These are early iterations of the new classes; some abilities might be a bit extreme or stretch some assumptions of the game, and the best way to find out if we’ve gone too far (or in the wrong direction) is for us to deliver these classes into your hands. If you’re new and used to open betas on a video game where there’s mostly only small refinements, this will be a different experience. If you’re a veteran of the Pathfinder Playtest for the new edition of the game, you should note that because the playtest window is relatively short this time, we don’t expect to release any changes to these classes during the playtest itself, but your thoughts and feedback will still be vital in shaping the final versions of the classes.

How Can You Help

We’d like you to play these classes in a variety of levels and situations. If you’re looking for a published adventure to get some standardized feedback, we recommend trying out Fall of Plaguestone, which offers a stand-alone experience at some of the most commonly played levels of the game with some particularly challenging series of combats that can help put the classes through their paces.

Once you’ve had a chance to try the classes, you can submit your feedback in the following ways. If you only have time for one form of feedback, we’d ask you to please take the survey. It makes it easier for us to hear and apply your feedback, since it’s more structured and puts your responses directly at our fingertips.

You can find the downloads right here. We’d like to thank you for participating in the Advanced Player’s Guide playtest, and we’re looking forward to seeing what you think and using your feedback to make these classes the best they can be!

Mark Seifter
Designer

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Advanced Player's Guide Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Pathfinder Second Edition
201 to 241 of 241 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>

2 people marked this as a favorite.

So, Oracle main from PF1 here. I like what I see from the PF2 Oracle.

In PF1 the curse sometimes felt a bit like a stapled on class feature that felt kinda jank at times. While a fair amount of curses were balanced in what they took and gave like tongues and deafened, but others took too much like clouded vision and others gave too much like haunted. Finding a curse that wasn't undesirable for mechanical or flavor reasons could sometimes be a chore.
TL:DR there are some characters where I wish I could have skipped the curse part of my character, even if it meant less goodies.

Now PF2? With that curse being a part of the mystery? Honestly kind of attractive, as is having it play out like burn. Hell if you just want the goodies from your mystery and not the spells you can completely avoid your curse. Overall I like this idea.

Right now there are two things I want from this. One, more mysteries and exclusive options for those mysteries. Part of the fun of PF1's oracle is finding niches for the mysteries and more ways to diversify them would be appreciated. The other thing is maybe tone down the major curse of life a bit? It feels a lot more harmful than Flame and Battle's major curses, especially since casting a 5th+ level spell forces you to pulse out healing, which may heal the enemy if you haven't positioned yourself well on top of hurting yourself. I'm not saying make the pulse optional, but maybe make it so that I don't heal the enemy with this?

But still, very excited to see what's in store for the future of my favorite class.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
HyperMissingno wrote:
Right now there are two things I want from this.

You might want to post this in the Oracle Playtest forum, where staff are looking for feedback

Oracle Playtest Forum


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Drakhan Valane wrote:
I think it's pretty safe to assume the new APG is also going to have a lot of expansions to the core classes. Of the 4 classes presented, I think only the Investigator could reasonably be considered able to fit an existing class, and I like the adjustments to the chassis they've made for that one. How would you make a Witch as we see here with only class feats on an existing class?

I would have made a 'Witch' by playing a wizard or sorcerer (or any other spellcaster), and taking a "Mysterious Patronage" dedication feat. With that, you gain a basic lesson, granting you a focus spell, and a focus pool (or adding to an existing one), and maybe the cackle ability (the ability to sustain without concentration by adding audible and sonic). Subsequent feats can be taken later to learn greater and major lessons.

The character themeing options are FAR greater being able to have this mysterious patron bolt on to any other spellcaster, than being tied only to this particular trope. This method as presented here, of 'just make a new class', backpedals on the great innovations and potential pf2 brought to the table.

To be completely honest, I feel the oracle could have been built with the exact same dedication feat - a witch's patron and an oracle's mystery being essentially synonymous - and to combine the various 'lessons/curses' into a common list means even more options for all.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

In the same way, swashbuckler panache should have been focus spell feats that any character could pick up with a swashbuckler dedication.


Panache not being focus spells is great thou as it not limited to how often you can activate/regain it.

Also, making more classes is not backpedaling if they introduce new mechanics for those classes. Which is partly why Witch feels so bad, it doesnt really have anything different to other classes. Right now it's different due to having harsh penalty when they lose their familiar and a few strong focus spells (they should be at will or more usable), and have a whole paragraph on refluffing sustaining spells which doesnt match what other classes get as a special action.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Gisher wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
I just don't envision my swashbuckler using a buckler. I'm fine with some people's swashbuckler using a buckler so I'm OK with it being an option I just don't want the (what would be) wasted option for mine.
So you want to play a Swash?

I mean, to be fair, a gunslinger does not (ordinarily) sling his gun, so I would say you can play a swashbuckler without a buckler.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
CraziFuzzy wrote:

In the same way, swashbuckler panache should have been focus spell feats that any character could pick up with a swashbuckler dedication.

Swashbuckler isn’t a spellcaster, so no.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
Swashbuckler isn’t a spellcaster, so no.

Neither is the champion. That shouldn't and doesn't really stop us from using the mechanic.

Silver Crusade

14 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
cavernshark wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Swashbuckler isn’t a spellcaster, so no.
Neither is the champion. That shouldn't and doesn't really stop us from using the mechanic.

Paladins/Champions have always been supernatural and uses spells.

Swashbucklers are not inherently supernatural and do not use spells.

Supernatural options down the line would be neat, but I am vehemently against making all class abilities Focus Spells just cause.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
cavernshark wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Swashbuckler isn’t a spellcaster, so no.
Neither is the champion. That shouldn't and doesn't really stop us from using the mechanic.

Lay on Hands is magic, and is a spell. Being a totally cool dude who does kickflips in combat is not magic, and therefore is not a spell. That simple, really.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Arachnofiend wrote:
cavernshark wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Swashbuckler isn’t a spellcaster, so no.
Neither is the champion. That shouldn't and doesn't really stop us from using the mechanic.
Lay on Hands is magic, and is a spell. Being a totally cool dude who does kickflips in combat is not magic, and therefore is not a spell. That simple, really.

Monk says "hey."


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Yeah? Monks are also magic, at least the ones that take spells. Monks had (Su) all over their abilities list in PF1 and the only thing that's changed is that being magical is opt-in now.

Liberty's Edge

A spellcaster has the [Tradition/Class] Spellcasting class feature. For example, Witch Spellcasting or Primal Spellcasting. Spellcasting is not a requirement for Focus Spells as seen in the cases of the Monk and Champion. Panache doesn't act like Focus Spells/Points at all.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Arachnofiend wrote:
Yeah? Monks are also magic, at least the ones that take spells. Monks had (Su) all over their abilities list in PF1 and the only thing that's changed is that being magical is opt-in now.

A Panache based monk sounds awesome, too. I wonder if there's going to be a way to do that in the full APG?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Drakhan Valane wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Yeah? Monks are also magic, at least the ones that take spells. Monks had (Su) all over their abilities list in PF1 and the only thing that's changed is that being magical is opt-in now.
A Panache based monk sounds awesome, too. I wonder if there's going to be a way to do that in the full APG?

The chance of the Swashbuckler multiclass dedication giving you access to panache is approximately 100%, so if nothing else you should be able to do it that way.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Oh no! Alahazra got Gimbled!

Shadow Lodge

Got what now?


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Are you sure it wasn't Fumbused?

:>


S. J. Digriz wrote:
I think that the oracle, swashbuckler, and witch are different enough to warrant new classes. But the investigator could easily be done as a rogue racket with investigator feats added to the rogue feats, and studied strike a special action available to the racket that lets them get sneak attack damage.

Just from one session of play, I feel that the Oracle and Witch are very similar to pre-existing spellcasters, just with different flavour. The Swashbuckler and Investigator have played differently in combat and exploration encounters, whereas the Battle Oracle and Witch could have been a Champion and Wizard.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
TOZ wrote:
Got what now?

You know, Dick Sargented.

Paizo Employee Designer

11 people marked this as a favorite.

The surveys are now live! Please head to The class survey and the open response survey and answer some questions whenever you're ready; you can change your answers up to the close date.

Thanks for all the great feedback so far; you've already helped us identify several areas to focus on with your comments, and the surveys will help gather even more data!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Kinda wish Patron and Familiar weren't listed as the same thing in the Witch survey. I really like Lessons but I think the Familiar is really underwhelming. Ended up not being sure how to quantify that on the survey.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Good sign. Investigator questions ask about the 'highest character level your alchemist reached.' Alchemist keeps popping up throughout the questions.


Just a heads up, the option to skip the witch survey is bugged and forces you to do it anyway.

Silver Crusade

10 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

*cackles*


5 people marked this as a favorite.

*snickers*


I really do like the Lessons versatility witch has, and the different spell list. It really allows you to create your own patron per se rather than just being locked into archetypes like the 5e warlock...

But speaking of Archetypes, the Class Feats it has now are super restricted to the 1e-style Basically-a-lesser-hag-but-a-PC aesthetic, with few exceptions.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

The World's Most Interesting GM wrote:
Oh no! Alahazra got Gimbled!

Boo! :(


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The witch needs access to the Reach feat! A low AC combined with low HP means bag the touch spells. Your familiar is also your spellbook, it doesn't make any sense to have your familiar killed delivering a touch spell, the downside to too great.


So rolling a one is not a free attack anymore? Sad only a Swashbuckler can do it now and only against one enemy. Kind of lame. I suggest Paizo to come up with a different Riposte dynamic OR adding the Flatfooted condition to the enemy with Riposte. "You take advantage of an opening from your enemy’s attack leaving him flatfooted against you. Make a melee Strike against the triggering foe or attempt to Disarm it."

Grand Lodge

Are we adding the Sword Cane stats to the playtest? That seems to be a glaring omission...

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Brilde Phelon wrote:
Are we adding the Sword Cane stats to the playtest? That seems to be a glaring omission...

That'll be in the actual book. It wasn't seen as all that necessary or vital to the playtest.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thought I was losing my mind for a moment until I realized this was for second edition.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Velderve wrote:
So rolling a one is not a free attack anymore? Sad only a Swashbuckler can do it now and only against one enemy. Kind of lame. I suggest Paizo to come up with a different Riposte dynamic OR adding the Flatfooted condition to the enemy with Riposte. "You take advantage of an opening from your enemy’s attack leaving him flatfooted against you. Make a melee Strike against the triggering foe or attempt to Disarm it."

Link to PF1 Attack of Opportunity rules.

It actually wasn't a rule in PF1 that a nat 1 on an attack roll resulted in an attack of opportunity. That was a common house rule people would use to make nat 1's more deadly. I believe it was also used in conjunction with the Critical Fumble deck.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

My group's planning to get a playtest session done next Sunday, Dec 1. When you say the playtest runs "until Dec 2," what exactly does that mean? How much time will we have to fill out the surveys?


Yeah. They close out the surveys on dec 2. You can keep using the stuff but official feedback surveys will be closed.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Shisumo wrote:
My group's planning to get a playtest session done next Sunday, Dec 1. When you say the playtest runs "until Dec 2," what exactly does that mean? How much time will we have to fill out the surveys?

I would guess that you have at a minimum, until 11:59 PM Dec 1. And more likely, 10 PM PST [1 PM EST] Dec 2. That's the time the office opens on Monday, Dec 2.

Perhaps staff will pop into this thread and give us more precise information.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I've just gone on to fill in the survey and I was wondering what is the reasoning behind having all demographic questions being opt out except age?


Malk_Content wrote:
I've just gone on to fill in the survey and I was wondering what is the reasoning behind having all demographic questions being opt out except age?

Being able to opt out of demographic questions is standard practice

Unless your question is actually why is age the only one you can’t opt out of?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Lanathar wrote:
Malk_Content wrote:
I've just gone on to fill in the survey and I was wondering what is the reasoning behind having all demographic questions being opt out except age?

Being able to opt out of demographic questions is standard practice

Unless your question is actually why is age the only one you can’t opt out of?

Yup thats my question.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Malk_Content wrote:
Lanathar wrote:
Malk_Content wrote:
I've just gone on to fill in the survey and I was wondering what is the reasoning behind having all demographic questions being opt out except age?

Being able to opt out of demographic questions is standard practice

Unless your question is actually why is age the only one you can’t opt out of?
Yup thats my question.

Short version: probably COPPA, which is the same reason most web services won't let you make an account unless you click a box saying you're at least 13.

201 to 241 of 241 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Advanced Player’s Guide Playtest / General Discussion / Paizo Blog: Welcome to the Advanced Player’s Guide Playtest! All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion