s

Experience Builds Character

Tuesday, July 2, 2019

Making a character in Pathfinder Second Edition is a process that most experienced gamers will find familiar, but wherever possible, we made changes to make the process more intuitive while still giving you a mountain of choices and flexibility. It all starts with imagining the character you want to play. Maybe you want to be a ferocious dwarven warrior who takes on the aspects of an animal in the heat of battle. Maybe you want to play a wise-cracking elven con artist who grew up on the streets, but now plays at being a member of high society. Or maybe you just want to make a mysterious wizard that loves to blow things up. Pathfinder gives you all the tools to make these characters and countless more! Even if you don't have a complete concept in mind, the steps of character creation in Pathfinder are there to help you make the big decisions and focus in on a character that you are excited to play.

Learning your ABCs

With a concept in mind (no matter how fully formed), the next step is to make the major decisions about your character. We call these decisions your ABCs because you need to decide on your character's Ancestry, Background, and Class. By making these big choices, along with any additional decisions that come with each, the character you want to play will take shape!

Think of these choices as deciding the major moments in your character's youth. First off you were born, the details of which are decided by your Ancestry. Next up is your youth, which is molded by your Background. Finally, your Class decides the life you have chosen to live as an adventurer. Along each step of the way, you will make additional decisions that reinforce and shape the image of your character. Chief among these are your ability scores. Each step of your ABCs impacts your ability scores, giving boosts and flaws to these six vital stats, changing your raw potential to accomplish tasks and overcome danger.

Details and Polish

Throughout the character creation process, you must record a variety of details about your character. Many of these are simple proficiency upgrades, noting your character's aptitude at performing specific tasks or resisting effects. Others require you to select from a list of options, like your ancestry's heritage or a feat from your class. Every single choice you make influences what you can accomplish during play, making you different from the others around you. Even if some of the big choices are the same, these smaller decisions can make two clerics, for example, play entirely differently. One might be a virtuous warrior priest, fighting for her deity with blade and shield, while the other is a pious adherent, using spells and sermons to preach a peaceful path.

Once all of the choices have been made, it's time to buy your starting gear and begin filling out all of your statistics. Starting heroes have precious few gold pieces to start with and buying the right gear can mean the difference between a glorious career and a forgotten grave.

Illustration of Iakhovas by Giorgio Baroni

 

Iakhovas
To illustrate this process, I'll be building a Second Edition version of one of my First Edition Pathfinder Society characters, named Iakhovas.


Step 1: Create a Concept

What sort of hero do you want to play? The answer to this question might be as simple as "a brave warrior," or as complicated as "the child of elven wanderers, but raised in a city dominated by humans and devoted to Sarenrae, goddess of the sun." Consider your character's personality, sketch out a few details about their past, and think about how and why they adventure. Many character concepts center around the character's class, their ancestry, or both, so it might be a good idea to flip through the available ancestries and classes to help inspire you. The Core Rulebook includes a helpful spread with a quick summary of each.

Your character's concept might also center around their background, personal identity, deity, relationship to the other characters, or anything else you can imagine!

Iakhovas: Concept
My concept for Iakhovas was a defense-focused master of all martial techniques, skilled and willing to protect and train others, shaped by the death of his sister and his revenge against the vampire Talia Nightcrescent, whose staking makes him a wanted murderer in the undead-dominated nation of Geb. This concept means Iakhovas is a Garundi human, probably either a fighter or a monk.


Step 2: Start Building Ability Scores

Start all ability scores at 10 in preparation for the later steps. This is a good time to start thinking about what ability scores will be important for your character. You can even jot down your ability scores as you adjust them on your character sheet.

Above you'll see a character sheet with numbered indicators to show you where you need to write something in each numbered step.

Iakhovas: Ability Scores
I start all of Iakhovas's ability scores at 10. Thinking about the way I see him fighting, I think he's likely to fight with a combination of strength and grace in order to be a master of all martial techniques, so I'm likely to prioritize Dexterity and Strength. I see him as being wise and fit as well, so if I get a chance, I might want to raise Constitution or Wisdom.


Step 3: Select an Ancestry

Select an ancestry for your character. Ancestry determines your character's size, Speed, and languages, and contributes to their Hit Points. Each also grants ability boosts and ability flaws to represent the ancestry's basic capabilities.

You'll make four decisions when you select your character's ancestry:

  • Pick the ancestry itself.
  • Assign any free ability boosts and decide if you are taking any voluntary flaws.
  • Select a heritage from those available within that ancestry, further defining the traits your character was born with.
  • Choose an ancestry feat, representing an ability your hero learned at an early age.

Iakhovas: Ancestry
Since I selected human for Iakhovas's ancestry, he is Medium size, has a 25-foot Speed, speaks Common and Osiriani to start, and begins with 8 Hit Points from his ancestry.

Both of his ability boosts are free, so I assign them to Strength and Dexterity, the two I decided were most important to him in Step 2. This brings him to 12 Strength and Dexterity. I don't see Iakhovas as being particularly unintelligent or uncharismatic, and I said I wanted to try to raise the other four ability scores, so I won't be taking any voluntary flaws.

Skilled Heritage: Your ingenuity allows you to train in a wide variety of skills. You become trained in one skill of your choice. At 5th level, you become an expert in the chosen skill.For Iakhovas's heritage, I have some great options. Mechanically, the half-elf and half-orc heritages bring a lot to the table, with better vision and access to some excellent new feats, but conceptually, I pictured Iakhovas as a standard human. I eventually choose the skilled heritage, since that will help me fulfill my concept of being skilled a little better, even if I can't invest as much in Intelligence. Since I want him to be a master of all martial techniques, I choose Athletics as his trained skill from his heritage.

Natural Ambition, Feat 1. Human. You were raised to be ambitious and always reach for the stars, leading you to progress quickly in your chosen field. You gain a 1st-level class feat for your class. You must meet the prerequisites, but you can select the feat later in the character creation process in order to determine which prerequisites you meet.Finally, I choose an ancestry feat. Haughty Obstinancy has a nice benefit against vampiric domination, but it doesn't really fit his personality. Natural Skill would give him yet more skills, and Cooperative Nature would grant him an incredible +4 circumstance bonus to Aiding his allies, both of which fit his concept, but eventually I decide to take Natural Ambition, which will grant him another class feat and help him be a master of all martial techniques. I can wait and choose the class feat later on, as Natural Ambition mentions.


Step 4: Pick a Background

Your character's background might represent their upbringing, an aptitude they've been honing since their youth, or another aspect of their life before they became an adventurer. They typically provide two ability boosts (one that can be applied to either of two specific ability scores, and one that is free), training in a specific skill, training in a Lore skill, and a specific skill feat.

Iakhovas: Background
Iakhovas's background is one of the parts of him that is most difficult to quantify here. He and his sister were used for their blood by a vampire—the sister of a Blood Lord of Geb—until the vampire overfed and killed his sister, breaking him free of his domination and leading him to stake the vampire while she slept. Then wanted for murder, he escaped Geb and joined the Pathfinders, trading his loyalty for the promise of asylum. He is certainly a criminal in Geb, and criminal is a background, but he hasn't really lived the life of a criminal, so the mechanical elements wouldn't make much sense. Laborer is normally a good choice for characters enslaved by evil creatures, but that background is about a life of manual labor, and Iakhovas was kept around for his blood. My other options are acolyte, acrobat, animal whisperer, artisan, artist, barkeep, barrister, bounty hunter, charlatan, detective, emissary, entertainer, farmhand, field medic, fortune teller, gambler, gladiator, guard, herbalist, hermit, hunter, martial disciple, merchant, miner, noble, nomad, prisoner, sailor, scholar, scout, street urchin, tinker, or warrior.

If I was using Lost Omens World Guide, I would have the absolutely perfect background, "Quick."
Quick. Background. Staying alive among the scheming, ravenous undead of Geb required a deep knowledge of their motivations, capabilities, and weaknesses. More often than not, it also required the ability to weave alibis and life-preserving half-truths capable of swaying a stilled heart. Choose two ability boosts. One must be to Charisma or Constitution, and one is a free ability boost. You're trained in the Deception skill and the Undead Lore skill. You gain the Charming Liar skill feat.

As is, I still have a good choice with the core: I can focus not on who he was in Geb but who he has become, and choose martial disciple, so that's what I do.
Martial Disciple. Background. You dedicated yourself to intense training and rigorous study to become a great warrior. The school you attended might have been a traditionalist monastery, an elite military academy, or the local branch of a prestigious mercenary organization. Choose two ability boosts. One must be to Strength or Dexterity, and one is a free ability boost. You're trained in your choice of the Acrobatics or Athletics skill. You gain a skill feat: Cat Fall if you chose Acrobatics or Quick Jump if you chose Athletics. You're also trained in the Warfare Lore skill.

For my ability score, I can't go wrong since it has my two favorite options! I take Strength and Dexterity both (They are both now 14). I'm already trained in Athletics from my heritage, so I choose Acrobatics for my skill, gaining the Cat Fall skill feat. Then I gain Warfare Lore automatically.
Cat Fall. Feat 1. General. Skill. Prerequisites: trained in Acrobatics. Your catlike aerial acrobatics allow you to cushion your falls. Treat falls as 10 feet shorter. If you're an expert in Acrobatics, treat falls as 25 feet shorter. If you're a master in Acrobatics, treat them as 50 feet shorter. If you're legendary in Acrobatics, you always land on your feet and don't take damage, regardless of the distance of the fall.



Step 5: Choose a Class

At this point, you need to decide your character's class. A class gives your character access to a suite of heroic abilities, determines how effectively they fight, and governs how easily they can shake off or avoid certain harmful effects. You don't need to write down all of your character's class features yet. You simply need to know which class you want to play, which determines the ability scores that will be most important for your character.

Iakhovas: Class
OK, this is the moment of truth. I knew I was going to build him as either a monk or a fighter, and now that I've followed him down this journey, I'm thinking monk! It's okay, I'll take the fighter archetype later to really mix up his martial techniques. At this point I'm just recording my key ability score from monk. I get to pick Strength or Dexterity again—my two favorites—but this time I'm forced to choose between them. After a little internal debate, I decide on Strength, so Strength is now 16.


Step 6: Determine Ability Scores

Now that you've made the main mechanical choices about your character, it's time to finalize their ability scores. Do these three things:

  • First, make sure you've applied all the ability boosts and ability flaws you've noted in previous steps (from your ancestry, background, and class).
  • Then, apply four more ability boosts to your character's ability scores, choosing a different ability score for each and increasing that ability score by 2.
  • Finally, record your starting ability scores and ability modifiers.
Remember that each ability boost adds 2 to the base score of 10, and each ability flaw subtracts 2. You should have no ability score lower than 8 or higher than 18.

Iakhovas: Ability Scores
After applying the previous steps, I have Strength 16, Dexterity 14, and all the rest 10. For my four additional boosts, I'll choose to boost Strength and Dexterity again, and then Wisdom and Constitution, which I had been looking for a way to boost but hadn't until now. This leaves me with Strength 18, Dexterity 16, Constitution 12, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 12, Charisma 10.


Step 7: Record Class Details

Now, record all the benefits and class features that your character receives from the class you've chosen. While you've already noted your key ability score, you'll want to be sure to record the following class features.

  • To determine your character's total starting Hit Points, add together the number of Hit Points your character gains from their ancestry and the number of Hit Points they gain from their class.
  • The Initial Proficiencies section of your class entry indicates your character's starting proficiency ranks in a number of areas. Choose which skills your character is trained in and record those, along with the ones set by your class. If your class would make you trained in a skill you're already trained in (typically due to your background), you can select another skill to become trained in.
  • See the class advancement table in your class entry to learn the class features your character gains at 1st level—but remember, you already chose an ancestry and background. Some class features require you to make additional choices, such as selecting spells.

Iakhovas: Class Details
With 8 Hit Points from his human ancestry, 10 from the monk class, and 1 from Constitution, Iakhovas ends with a very respectable 19 HP. His initial proficiencies tell me he is trained in Perception, has expert proficiency in all three saving throws, is trained in simple weapons and unarmed attacks, is untrained in all armor but has expert proficiency in unarmored defense, and has trained proficiency in monk class DC. He's also trained in a number of skills equal to 4 plus his Intelligence modifier, so four. Since he already has Acrobatics and Athletics, I decide his other skills are Medicine since he would have needed to perform to bandage up and handle lost blood, Stealth for sneaking around and escaping the notice of the undead, Religion to represent his new faith in Pharasma (goddess of death) and his knowledge of undead weaknesses, and Diplomacy to cover the way he likes to instruct new recruits—in a friendly fashion rather than like a drill sergeant.

The advancement table shows me he also gets powerful fist, the incredibly potent Flurry of Blows action, and a monk feat of my choice!
Powerful Fist. You know how to wield your fists as deadly weapons. The damage die for your fist changes to 1d6 instead of 1d4. Most people take a –2 circumstance penalty when making a lethal attack with nonlethal unarmed attacks, because they find it hard to use their fists with deadly force. You don't take this penalty when making a lethal attack with your fist or any other unarmed attacks.

Flurry of Blows [one-action]. Flourish. Monk. Make two unarmed Strikes. If both hit the same creature, combine their damage for the purpose of resistances and weaknesses. Apply your multiple attack penalty to the Strikes normally. As it has the flourish trait, you can use Flurry of Blows only once per turn.

Now it's time to choose my monk feat. And I get two feats, thanks to Natural Ambition. As a master of all martial techniques, I definitely want Iakhovas to have a stance. Looking through the options, there are a lot of very good choices. Dragon Stance and Wolf Stance are both strong using the stats I have right now, but Mountain Stance is tempting, even if it would mean I'd need to go back and rearrange some earlier choices to deprioritize Dexterity.
Dragon Stance [one-action]. Feat 1. Monk. Stance.  Requirements: You are unarmored. You enter the stance of a dragon and make powerful leg strikes like a lashing dragon's tail. You can make dragon tail attacks that deal 1d10 bludgeoning damage. They are in the brawling group and have the backswing, nonlethal, and unarmed traits.
While in Dragon Stance, you can ignore the first square of difficult terrain while Striding.

Mountain Stance [one-action]. Feat 1. Monk. Stance.  Requirements: You are unarmored and touching the ground. You enter the stance of an implacable mountain—a technique first discovered by dwarven monks—allowing you to strike with the weight of an avalanche. The only Strikes you can make are falling stone unarmed attacks. These deal 1d8 bludgeoning damage; are in the brawling group; and have the forceful, nonlethal, and unarmed traits.
While in Mountain Stance, you gain a +4 status bonus to AC and a +2 circumstance bonus to any defenses against being Shoved or Tripped. However, you have a Dexterity modifier cap to your AC of +0, meaning you don't add your Dexterity to your AC, and your Speeds are all reduced by 5 feet.

Wolf Stance [one-action]. Feat 1. Monk. Stance.  Requirements: You are unarmored. You enter the stance of a wolf, low to the ground with your hands held like fanged teeth. You can make wolf jaw unarmed attacks. These deal 1d8 piercing damage; are in the brawling group; and have the agile, backstabber, finesse, nonlethal, and unarmed traits.
If you’re flanking a target while in Wolf Stance, your wolf jaw unarmed attacks also gain the trip trait.

Ki Rush. Focus 1. Uncommon. Monk. Transmutation. Casting [one-action]: verbal. Accelerated by your ki, you move with such speed you become a blur. Move two times: two Strides, two Steps, or one Stride and one Step (in either order). You gain the concealed condition during this movement and until the start of your next turn.  | Ki Strike. Focus 1. Uncommon. Monk. Transmutation. Casting [one-action]: verbal. You focus your ki into magical attacks. Make an unarmed Strike or Flurry of Blows (this doesn't change the limit on using only one flourish per turn). You gain a +1 status bonus to your attack rolls with the Strikes, and the Strikes deal 1d6 extra damage. This damage can be any of the following types of your choice, chosen each time you Strike: force, lawful (only if you're lawful), negative, or positive.

Offense, or mobility? This would grant a great deal of either when I needed them most, and as a monk, I could spend 10 minutes to meditate and strive for inner peace in order to recover my Focus Points, letting me use this in most battles as long as we rest between them. It's the closest call yet, but I decide to go for ki strike. I'll be keeping an eye on the party's offense vs. my ability to outpace my foes' movement and potentially retraining if I find out ki rush would have been more useful.


Step 8: Buy Equipment

At 1st level, your character has 15 gold pieces (150 silver pieces) to spend on armor, weapons, and other basic equipment. Your character's class lists the types of weapons and armor with which they are trained (or better!). Their weapons determine how much damage they deal in combat, and their armor influences their Armor Class; these calculations are covered in more detail in Step 10. Don't forget essentials such as food and traveling gear!

.

Iakhovas: Equipment
Monk Kit. Price: 4 gp, 9 sp; Bulk: 4 Bulk, 2 light; Money Left Over: 10 gp, 2 sp
Weapons: longspear, staff
Gear: adventurer's pack, bandolier, climbing kit, grappling hook, lesser smokestick As a monk, I don't really need too many weapons or armor, though a ranged weapon would be nice. I'll be fine with a monk's kit for 4 gp and 9 sp, plus maybe 10 javelins for 1 more gp for a ranged attack. Just because Iakhovas hates vampires so much, I spend 3 of my remaining gp on a vial of holy water, leaving plenty of money to help out others if necessary.


Step 9: Calculate Modifiers

With most of the big decisions for your character made, it's time to calculate the modifiers for your statistics. If your proficiency rank for a statistic is trained, expert, master, and legendary, your bonus equals your character's level plus another number based on the rank (2, 4, 6, and 8, respectively). If your character is untrained, your proficiency bonus is +0.

Iakhovas: Modifiers
Iakhovas winds up with +4 Perception (1 from level, 2 from trained proficiency, 1 from Wisdom), +6 Fortitude, +8 Reflex, +6 Will, +7 to hit with his melee attacks, +6 to hit with his ranged attacks, and a variety of trained skills, ranging from Athletics at +7 to Diplomacy and Warfare Lore at +3. He does 1d6+4 damage with his fist, 1d8+4 with his wolf jaw, and 1d6+4 with his thrown javelins.


Illustration by Mariusz Gandzel

Step 10: Finishing Details

At this point, you fill in all the details, including those to breathe more life into your character's personality like alignment, deity, age, and gender and pronouns, and those last mathematical details that weren't part of your modifiers like class DC, hero points, AC, and Bulk.

Iakhovas
As a devout Pharasmin but a team player who is often selfless in pursuit of protecting others, I definitely see Iakhovas as either neutral or neutral good. I decide on neutral good, and we'll see if that shifts during play. He is in his late 20s, after an early youth lost to vampiric domination. I decide to go with 28. His gender is male and he uses he/him pronouns. His class DC, as we saw before, is trained, and it's based on his Strength, so it would be 17 (10 + 4 from Strength + 1 from level + 2 for being trained). He generally would start a session with 1 Hero Point. His AC would be a solid 18 (10 + 3 from Dexterity + 1 from level + 4 from being an expert). Finally, he is carrying 5 Bulk and 3 light (4 Bulk 2 light from the monk kit, 1 more Bulk entirely of javelins, and then 1 light for holy water). He can carry way more than this, so he can probably help other team members who might be having trouble.


And that's it! What character are you going to be building first in Pathfinder Second Edition? Let me know in the comments below!

Mark Seifter
Designer




More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Pathfinder Second Edition
201 to 250 of 378 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | next > last >>
Designer

Seisho wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Lanathar wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:

As someone who usually prefers for her monks to be huge muscle ladies, I fully approve of Mountain Stance. Eyeball test indicates it's perfectly reasonable for the character it's meant for and should suffice for using your chiseled abs as a replacement for full plate armor. ;)

Now I just need to figure out how worth it would be to make a Monk that favors charisma over wisdom... Might be worthwhile just by sheer value of intimidate, really.

I believe wisdom is completely non essential now- you just don’t pick the powers that use it

It is more what charisma can be used for beyond social skills ... (which may be enough)

The usefulness of charisma is more the issue, yeah. It'll likely be a bit before they add some proper charisma synergy for the Monk, so a charismatic Monk is riding on the power of skill feats alone; I suspect that even after the nerf Intimidate is still going to be a nasty thing to invest into so that's likely enough justification.
Also flurry greases the wheels for you so well, that might be the only action you need to spend attacking most rounds. In which case, Cha to qualify for bard dedication and take a composition cantrip to use each round? There are some really solid options.
That...actually sounds pretty cool, might consider it :P

Cha also qualifies for champion, if you want a cool reaction or something, though the armor isn't great for a monk.

Dark Archive

So, no bonus Strength for Wild Order Druid . Is many sad.

I waited for this, but don't worry, is fine; only I go to the corner for cry a moment.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
David Paru wrote:

So, no bonus Strength for Wild Order Druid . Is many sad.

I waited for this, but don't worry, is fine; only I go to the corner for cry a moment.

I don’t understand your worry, and feel that it might be misplaced, or at least premature.

Focus pools now start at 1, not the relevant ability score modifier. But the Wild Shape pool is something else, and might still be Strength based. Is that your concern?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Tectorman wrote:

So it's sounding like I'm going to have to play an equipment-unintensive character like a Monk or a Sorcerer and obsessively max out their Str score and carrying capacity just to have the logistical capacity to not be overburdened by the fundamental looting that the game is built on.

So. Will the GMG be doing anything to address this?

Hunh? Play whatever character you want. Carrying capacity has always been a part of DnD, you could even say a “fundamental” part. If you don’t want to worry about carrying capacity, then talk to your DM I guess. Simple enough.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Elorebaen wrote:
Tectorman wrote:

So it's sounding like I'm going to have to play an equipment-unintensive character like a Monk or a Sorcerer and obsessively max out their Str score and carrying capacity just to have the logistical capacity to not be overburdened by the fundamental looting that the game is built on.

So. Will the GMG be doing anything to address this?

Hunh? Play whatever character you want. Carrying capacity has always been a part of DnD, you could even say a “fundamental” part. If you don’t want to worry about carrying capacity, then talk to your DM I guess. Simple enough.

Pack animals, the Ant Haul spell, bags of holding; there are many solutions to this problem. And to some extent, this was an issue in first edition, as well.


6 people marked this as a favorite.

Looking forward to the release, which here in Brazil, will be simultaneous with the United States! It is very proud of being part of this, that here, it is unprecedented!

Designer

13 people marked this as a favorite.
LordeAlvenaharr wrote:
Looking forward to the release, which here in Brazil, will be simultaneous with the United States! It is very proud of being part of this, that here, it is unprecedented!

Estamos felizes em ter você!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thanks Paizo and everyone involved, this new edition has completed the monopoly of my group! It is now Starfinder and Pathfinder 2 !!!!!


3 people marked this as a favorite.
First World Bard wrote:
Elorebaen wrote:
Tectorman wrote:

So it's sounding like I'm going to have to play an equipment-unintensive character like a Monk or a Sorcerer and obsessively max out their Str score and carrying capacity just to have the logistical capacity to not be overburdened by the fundamental looting that the game is built on.

So. Will the GMG be doing anything to address this?

Hunh? Play whatever character you want. Carrying capacity has always been a part of DnD, you could even say a “fundamental” part. If you don’t want to worry about carrying capacity, then talk to your DM I guess. Simple enough.
Pack animals, the Ant Haul spell, bags of holding; there are many solutions to this problem. And to some extent, this was an issue in first edition, as well.

No, previously, I could have a character with their armor, a main melee weapon, a second main melee weapon, a backup melee weapon, several light weapons such as daggers or throwing axes, a ranged weapon (and more than enough ammo to not run out in a single adventure, provided I collected arrows after each fight), possibly a second ranged weapon and its ammo, plus rations and water, plus extraneous adventuring gear (shovel, torches, climbing/thieving/disguise kit or kits, acid flasks, healing potions) plus rope, rope, rope, rope, and more rope (yes, all five).

And have enough breathing room to be able to go into a dungeon and take things out. No, not ten orcs' worth of armor and greataxes, but if the adventure has potions, or masterwork or magical gear deliberately put in as loot, then I would at least be able to take that out.

And all without having to obsessively chase after every last carrying capacity increasing element in the game. I.e., without a feat like Hefty Hauler, without a spell like Ant Haul, without a Bag of Holding, without a pack mule, and without devoting every ability score increase to Str just for the carrying capacity, I'd still be able to have a character properly prepared while paying attention to encumbrance.

Heck, I think I'm the only player at my 5E game that pays attention to encumbrance, and that game allows enough breathing room with its encumbrance rules that I'm good to go while still outfitting my characters with that same eye towards being prepared.

Not in this game, though. I already demonstrated that with the iconic Seelah. Just for curiosity's sake, I took one of my 5E characters that I deliberately didn't outfit with a full array of adventuring gear (with a Str of 10, by the way) and converted her gear to playtest Bulk numbers. She would have needed a Str of 18 to avoid the encumbrance penalties, at least as of the playtest.

I mean, if literally everything that had a Bulk over Light in the playtest were converted to 1 Bulk, period (meaning full plate, longbows, snare kits, everything), then that might be a start. If the Bulk limits were 5 + Str score (no, not mod, score) before encumbered, and 10 + Str score before immobile, then that's another maybe.

But right now, it's a nice and tidy Catch 22. You need to adventure to afford a Bag of Holding. You need a Bag of Holding to go out and adventure. With the exception of classes that barely use equipment anyway (hence, the Monk).


2 people marked this as a favorite.

@Techtorman
Assuming that the playtest rules are the same as the final version in regards to encumbrance rules, being slightly overburdened doesn't keep anyone from adventuring. Bring a backpack, cart, or beast of burden. Carry your stuff while you travel. During confrontations and exploration, ditch your stuff and then pick it up later.

I don't think it makes sense for any character to always carry the heaps of weapons and tools that they aren't using, especially while they are preoccupied with sneaking/fighting/investigating. During combat it should be just as simple to drop your stuff as it is to pick it back up again.


6 people marked this as a favorite.

5e really does have some crazy high carrying capacity values by default. The GM guide comes out and says that the're set that high so as to make it a non-issue. It always makes me think of This. And it seriously contributes to the stat imbalance in 5e.


Bardarok wrote:
5e really does have some crazy high carrying capacity values by default. The GM guide comes out and says that the're set that high so as to make it a non-issue. It always makes me think of This. And it seriously contributes to the stat imbalance in 5e.

That's pretty much why I always opt for the variant carry capacity rules (also in the DMG). It uses a capacity scale similar to PF1 but linear. Encumbered at 5xStr (in lbs), heavily encumbered at 10xStr, and can't exceed 15xStr as normal. Still unrealistic quantities but at least players are divvying up their loot strategically. The weaker PCs in particular feel the pain and are constantly asking the stronger members to keep hold of their stuff.

I'm also having to constantly remind the players wearing heavy armor that ITS OKAY TO BE ENCUMBERED! You're a tank, no one expects you to be as fast as everyone else.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Aiden2018 wrote:

@Techtorman

Assuming that the playtest rules are the same as the final version in regards to encumbrance rules, being slightly overburdened doesn't keep anyone from adventuring. Bring a backpack, cart, or beast of burden. Carry your stuff while you travel. During confrontations and exploration, ditch your stuff and then pick it up later.

I'm not really thrilled with the idea of dropping equipment in a game as mobile as PF2. If you have fast, smart foes, what's to stop them from snatching your stuff and running off with it? This is especially true if you drop and run up to some foes and more come or, if this is a common tactic for adventurers, they wait for them to attack a monster and then snatch and grab free loot.

As far as a cart, horse ect. until we see the stats on them it's hard to say if they are viable in general: in practice there are always going to be situations where you'll not be able to take a large animal along meaning it have to fend for itself for long periods or the PC's trek for LONG distances at an encumbered speed.

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Tectorman wrote:

No, previously, I could have a character with their armor, a main melee weapon, a second main melee weapon, a backup melee weapon, several light weapons such as daggers or throwing axes, a ranged weapon (and more than enough ammo to not run out in a single adventure, provided I collected arrows after each fight), possibly a second ranged weapon and its ammo, plus rations and water, plus extraneous adventuring gear (shovel, torches, climbing/thieving/disguise kit or kits, acid flasks, healing potions) plus rope, rope, rope, rope, and more rope (yes, all five).

And have enough breathing room to be able to go into a dungeon and take things out. No, not ten orcs' worth of armor and greataxes, but if the adventure has potions, or masterwork or magical gear deliberately put in as loot, then I would at least be able to take that out.

Let's examine how true this is objectively.

You used Seelah as an example of this issue in PF2, so let's examine it using her shown weapons and armor.

Longsword + Longbow + 20 Arrows + Morningstar (for B and P) + Dagger + Heavy Steel Shield + Plate Armor = 82 lbs.

Shovel + 10 Torches + Climbing Kit + 2 Acid Flasks + 2 Healing Potions + Pathfinder's Kit + 100 feet Silk Rope = 59 lbs

That's 143 lbs. 158 if we actually gave you five lengths of rope.

The carrying capacity of Str 18 (her likely Str in PF1) is 100 lbs for a Light Load. So she's over that by a fair bit (the same as in PF2). Now, as you say, if she's willing to go up to a Heavy Load she can carry quite a bit more (up to 300 lbs, to be specific...which is a tad absurd, honestly).

But the thing is, we don't know what the Heavy Load is in PF2. In the playtest it was the same as Light Load +5 but that was an often complained about fact. A lot of people argued it should be double the Light Load (so 18 Bulk in the case of someone with a +4 Str Mod). If they went that route then the two are suddenly very much equivalent situations.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

@Tectorman - that... just sounds like way too much stuff to take into a dungeon on one person.

Liberty's Edge

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Oh, and on a slightly divergent topic, it looks like at least some of the Bulk numbers probably have changed (we knew this, but this provides additional support).

Unless an 'adventurer's pack' is just an empty backpack (which seems wildly unlikely to me...it doesn't make a lot of sense to exist by that name without at least some rations, and probably other stuff to boot), the Bulk numbers of the items shown in the Monk's Kit don't add up via the playtest's Bulk stuff (since the Climbing Kit was 1, the Staff was 1, and the Longspear was 2).


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I think "hey, all your shovels are in your pack, along with your ropes and spikes, but you set that down in a fight" is a reasonable standard to follow. As a GM, just don't be a jerk and go after people's stuff lest you make them paranoid.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I think "hey, all your shovels are in your pack, along with your ropes and spikes, but you set that down in a fight" is a reasonable standard to follow. As a GM, just don't be a jerk and go after people's stuff lest you make them paranoid.

Yeah, and even in-world for most enemies it's literally insane to be trying to steal a dropped backpack while people are trying to stab you. It's not something that could never happen, but it sure is gonna be a rarity.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
PossibleCabbage wrote:
As a GM, just don't be a jerk and go after people's stuff lest you make them paranoid.

People leaving a large pile of stuff and running off to fight... I don't think it's a jerk move at all. It's especially true if its the 'utility' items on the floor. You steal all their rope, climbing kits, ect and run past the covered pit traps and/or climb up the wall. Again, if it a super common tactic, you SHOULD expect someone to take advantage of it. I would, if I was fighting against an enemy adventuring party and they did this.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Yeah, and even in-world for most enemies it's literally insane to be trying to steal a dropped backpack while people are trying to stab you. It's not something that could never happen, but it sure is gonna be a rarity.

They take it down an unexplored area, or a dark one or are just faster then you can catch easily [especially with armor]. A grab and running around a corner isn't super dangerous. This is especially is it's NOT the guy trying to stab you now but the guy not in melee: A hit and run. Losing all your food and water can kill you as well as a dagger and is less dangerous if you leave it all on the ground unguarded all the time.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
Aiden2018 wrote:

@Techtorman

Assuming that the playtest rules are the same as the final version in regards to encumbrance rules, being slightly overburdened doesn't keep anyone from adventuring. Bring a backpack, cart, or beast of burden. Carry your stuff while you travel. During confrontations and exploration, ditch your stuff and then pick it up later.

I'm not really thrilled with the idea of dropping equipment in a game as mobile as PF2. If you have fast, smart foes, what's to stop them from snatching your stuff and running off with it? This is especially true if you drop and run up to some foes and more come or, if this is a common tactic for adventurers, they wait for them to attack a monster and then snatch and grab free loot.

As far as a cart, horse ect. until we see the stats on them it's hard to say if they are viable in general: in practice there are always going to be situations where you'll not be able to take a large animal along meaning it have to fend for itself for long periods or the PC's trek for LONG distances at an encumbered speed.

I get what you're saying. It's entirely possible that as soon as combat breaks out some mob will get the idea to snatch up the dropped gear and make a run for it.

I highly doubt monsters will think to do that, because they're dumb and they want to eat you. I think that if a group of raiders were committed to killing the party, they won't stop to pick up your stuff first (they'll do that afterwards). Dragons always want your loot, but whether you're carrying it or not will hardly make a difference. In fact, I think the only type of foe that is reckless/stupid enough to try to pull that off are goblins, the difference being that they can actually get away with it.

Maybe it's just me, but I think I'd be okay with that sort of risk, though. It's one of many risks to consider that people take for granted.
Like, it'd be very inconvenient for wizards to lose all of their spells from having their grimoires destroyed or taken away. Yet they are constantly one dragon breath, one explosive trap, or one bad night away from just that occasion. It's just an occupational hazard, I don't think the mechanics should provide that we assume that they always have a spare available somewhere (for example).

Weapons can be lost, armor can be shattered, apparently people get cursed or permanently maimed. And valuables can be stolen during battle. Dropping your stuff in order to fight better might increase the chance of this happening, but I think it adds a clever bit of strategy to combat (do we fight while encumbered or go all out and risk losing everything).

Liberty's Edge

graystone wrote:
They take it down an unexplored area, or a dark one or are just faster then you can catch easily [especially with armor]. A grab and running around a corner isn't super dangerous. This is especially is it's NOT the guy trying to stab you now but the guy not in melee: A hit and run. Losing all your food and water can kill you as well as a dagger and is less dangerous if you leave it all on the ground unguarded all the time.

Sure, this can happen. But, frankly, it tends to need to be planned in advance to be a remotely good idea. PCs generally barge in on enemies who aren't expecting them. Like I said, it's not like this will never happen, but it's gonna be relatively rare, and you can usually (not always, but usually) just follow them and get it back in the very near future.

And, to be clear because you seem to be assuming they just leave it behind, the idea of 'dropping your backpack' is that you do it right when the fight occurs, which means it's not unguarded. You're right beside it...and even after moving to attack people you're usually gonna be within 50 feet or so of it.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Aiden2018 wrote:
I highly doubt monsters will think to do that, because they're dumb and they want to eat you.

I'd take wild guess that what's dropped is going to be your utility item that includes food and water: if the monster is hungry, does it want a fight to the death to eat you or that food it smells in your pack on the ground? For any intelligent foe, it's a common tactic to go after an armies supply lines to force a retreat or to starve them out. It works for large armies as well as the adventurer deep in a dungeon. Add to this foes that live in hard to get places. If it's a place that requires climbing to get, attacking the climbing gear is a smart move before they get there.

EDIT: or they might go and destroy that pile of stuff. Tossing a quick Molotov cocktail at them for instance.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
And, to be clear because you seem to be assuming they just leave it behind, the idea of 'dropping your backpack' is that you do it right when the fight occurs, which means it's not unguarded. You're right beside it...and even after moving to attack people you're usually gonna be within 50 feet or so of it.

50' is plenty of distance to manage with: are you charging full speed after them to just keep up with them and maybe be lead into an ambush, trap, act? 50' is more than most can make in an action.

I'm not saying I expect to see this happen every game, but I'd be shocked if I didn't run into a DM that does it eventually. Again, I'D do it as a DM.

Liberty's Edge

graystone wrote:

50' is plenty of distance to manage with: are you charging full speed after them to just keep up with them and maybe be lead into an ambush, trap, act? 50' is more than most can make in an action.

I'm not saying I expect to see this happen every game, but I'd be shocked if I didn't run into a DM that does it eventually. Again, I'D do it as a DM.

Well, yeah. But it's not gonna be every fight. Honestly, it's not gonna be every ten fights in most games. Which makes it a problem with the tactic, but not one that makes the tactic bad or unworkable.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
graystone wrote:

50' is plenty of distance to manage with: are you charging full speed after them to just keep up with them and maybe be lead into an ambush, trap, act? 50' is more than most can make in an action.

I'm not saying I expect to see this happen every game, but I'd be shocked if I didn't run into a DM that does it eventually. Again, I'D do it as a DM.

Well, yeah. But it's not gonna be every fight. Honestly, it's not gonna be every ten fights in most games. Which makes it a problem with the tactic, but not one that makes the tactic bad or unworkable.

Oh I agree. I wasn't implying that every time your pack hit the floor someone was going to try to grab it. I can just see that it could happen often enough that I'm not thrilled with relying on it. If you're sure your DM would never do it, I'm sure it's a fine tactic: That's not something I can say though.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
Aiden2018 wrote:
I highly doubt monsters will think to do that, because they're dumb and they want to eat you.

I'd take wild guess that what's dropped is going to be your utility item that includes food and water: if the monster is hungry, does it want a fight to the death to eat you or that food it smells in your pack on the ground? For any intelligent foe, it's a common tactic to go after an armies supply lines to force a retreat or to starve them out. It works for large armies as well as the adventurer deep in a dungeon. Add to this foes that live in hard to get places. If it's a place that requires climbing to get, attacking the climbing gear is a smart move before they get there.

EDIT: or they might go and destroy that pile of stuff. Tossing a quick Molotov cocktail at them for instance.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
And, to be clear because you seem to be assuming they just leave it behind, the idea of 'dropping your backpack' is that you do it right when the fight occurs, which means it's not unguarded. You're right beside it...and even after moving to attack people you're usually gonna be within 50 feet or so of it.

50' is plenty of distance to manage with: are you charging full speed after them to just keep up with them and maybe be lead into an ambush, trap, act? 50' is more than most can make in an action.

I'm not saying I expect to see this happen every game, but I'd be shocked if I didn't run into a DM that does it eventually. Again, I'D do it as a DM.

I'm sorry but any adventurer who cooks a hot meal and decides to pack it up and give beasts and monsters a way to track them is just asking to be ambushed. In the very, VERY unlikely scenario that a wolf or griffon decides that chowing down is more important than addressing an immediate threat, I'd say the poor sap had it coming. Next time they'll pack simple rations.

If the party wanders into a lair where their enemy has already prepared for them, to the point where they can simply rob them blind, I guarantee you that missing equipment is the least of their problems. I'd hope that experienced adventurers would know to never allow this to happen (but then again, goblins are crafty little devil's and you can't always anticipate'em).

If I were a evil minion and I had a pile of expendable incendiary grenades, I can think of better uses for them than just waiting on the party to drop their stuff just to set it on fire.

Also, swooping into grab up stuff an than attempting to run away is way more action intensive than strolling over to the guy attempting to steal your stuff and laying the smack down. Mind you, this is assuming that all party members are too preoccupied AND that none of them have ranged attacks.

Mind you, I'm making lots of assumptions too.


15 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm just imagining being some bandit or goblin mook facing down a pissed off paladin, raging barbarian and lightning hurling wizard and deciding to throw my life away so I can moderately inconvenience them by smashing a couple water bottles.

People here run weird games.


On the topic of stealing gear mid-combat:

If you employ that tactic, I hope you remember the action cost. Picking up the backpack is an action. And since it's not YOUR backpack I would argue that you at least need to spend a Seek/Examine action before you can retrieve a special item (climbing kit from it) with another action.

If an enemy has 1-3 actions to spare to search through stuff in combat, fine. One round more for your party to make them regret it.


swoosh wrote:

I'm just imagining being some bandit or goblin mook facing down a pissed off paladin, raging barbarian and lightning hurling wizard and deciding to throw my life away so I can moderately inconvenience them by smashing a couple water bottles.

People here run weird games.

There could be anything in that bag; there could even be a boat! You know how much the party always wanted a boat!

@masda_gib - I mean it would be easier to grab the bag and run off with it to search it later. Now, we’re also assuming this swift bandit is casually nabbing upward to a 50 lb bag rather than stabbing them repeatedly. So your experience may vary.


Pumpkinhead11 wrote:
@masda_gib - I mean it would be easier to grab the bag and run off with it to search it later. Now, we’re also assuming this swift bandit is casually nabbing upward to a 50 lb bag rather than stabbing them repeatedly. So your experience may vary.

Yeah grabbing and running with the bag would only be one action. Plus leaving your bandit friends one person weaker and then being alone when the party comes for you :)

But the hungry monster stealing your rations is a full round of actions: Seek, Retrieve, Nomnomnom... maybe take some move actions before eating if its not the dumbest critter.
And eating one ration/waterbottle is one action. Eating ALL your rations will be several rounds.

If that really happens, the party ranger should have taken the Survey Wildlife feat and made that Survival check to know about the hungry rats there. :) And if the ranger did that and the GM didn't tell them that there are hungry rats, that's the GM being wrong and a jerk. Because that's the mechanic to know about that.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I mean, if the bandit kills you, they can take all of your stuff. If the bandit doesn't think that's a possible outcome, why aren't they running away? If the bandit thinks winning is not certain, why would they increase the chance of their own death by running into danger to grab the thing the PC thought was *not* immediately important then turning your back to the people who might kill you and then be out of actions?


9 people marked this as a favorite.

If enemies start doing that, I'd start bringing around empty backpacks and dropping them. Did I hear free action to waste an enemy's entire turn and then remove them from combat?


Cyouni wrote:
If enemies start doing that, I'd start bringing around empty backpacks and dropping them. Did I hear free action to waste an enemy's entire turn and then remove them from combat?

Pfffthahahaha... This idea is even funnier than all the other instances of pointing out what a bad idea this -actually- would be for enemies. XD


3 people marked this as a favorite.

... Hold up, if your backpack has enough stuff to take you into encumbered territory, doesn't it stand to reason it would probably take the bandit to encumbered as well? So the bandit is just gonna wind up hampered and easily caught anyway, no? Especially when you factor in how common movement enhancements seem to be for PCs.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

"And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for them New Fangled Bulk rules!"


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Bandits start having enough people to both keep everyone busy and others to do a loot and scoot.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Stone Dog wrote:
Bandits start having enough people to both keep everyone busy and others to do a loot and scoot.

Or lead you into a monster encounter. I'm not sure why people are obsessed with people IN combat stopping the combat to take the items: I did say "This is especially true if it's NOT the guy trying to stab you now but the guy not in melee".

swoosh wrote:
I'm just imagining being some bandit or goblin mook facing down a pissed off paladin, raging barbarian and lightning hurling wizard and deciding to throw my life away so I can moderately inconvenience them by smashing a couple water bottles.

If your group is days away from a known source of water, it's a lot more than an inconvenience...

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
Or lead you into a monster encounter. I'm not sure why people are obsessed with people IN combat stopping the combat to take the items: I did say "This is especially is it's NOT the guy trying to stab you now but the guy not in melee".

Very few combat encounters in published adventures are set up for this to be in any way plausible or doable.

graystone wrote:
If your group is days away from a known source of water, it's a lot more than an inconvenience...

Unless you have a Cleric or someone else with Create Water (which most PC groups do). Actually, even if you don't, each PC almost always has their own water. Unless all of them are doing this, and all the packs get stolen, which is a pretty unlikely, this does very little.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
Stone Dog wrote:
Bandits start having enough people to both keep everyone busy and others to do a loot and scoot.
Or lead you into a monster encounter. I'm not sure why people are obsessed with people IN combat stopping the combat to take the items: I did say "This is especially true if it's NOT the guy trying to stab you now but the guy not in melee".

If there are some Bandits tricking the party to floow them to a monster and then stealing their stuff, that's cool. That's a whole encounter or more just built around that goal. Then that's by design. And it leaves the party with enough decission points to avoid being robbed.

But the "guy not in melee" is part of the encounter. If that guy is competent enough to sneak away with the backpack and leave no tracks, he's probably above party level and would therefore up the encounter level. And a diffucult encounter draining party resources? That's not wrong.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
masda_gib wrote:
Pumpkinhead11 wrote:
@masda_gib - I mean it would be easier to grab the bag and run off with it to search it later. Now, we’re also assuming this swift bandit is casually nabbing upward to a 50 lb bag rather than stabbing them repeatedly. So your experience may vary.
Yeah grabbing and running with the bag would only be one action. Plus leaving your bandit friends one person weaker and then being alone when the party comes for you :)

That bandit sounds like a jerk.


So Iakhovas starts with two languages (Common and Osiriani) and an Int of 10 so I'm assuming that Humans start off with common + racial language like the other ancestries; with their languages too be choosen from being the typical Human languages (Skald; Hallit; Tien; Varisian; etc.). Does anyone know if this is right?


Some Kind of Chymist wrote:
So Iakhovas starts with two languages (Common and Osiriani) and an Int of 10 so I'm assuming that Humans start off with common + racial language like the other ancestries; with their languages too be choosen from being the typical Human languages (Skald; Hallit; Tien; Varisian; etc.). Does anyone know if this is right?

Playtest gave humans Common plus "one additional language selected from those to which you have access" so I'm guessing something like that persisted. I'm not sure how to figure out which languages a PC has access to, though. Like if my character is Taldan do I have to invent reasons I learned something other than Taldane (i.e. Common, at least in Avistan) in my backstory lest I just get less? How do I make it so my Taldan has access to Tien so they can speak 2 different kinds of Common?


Some Kind of Chymist wrote:
So Iakhovas starts with two languages (Common and Osiriani) and an Int of 10 so I'm assuming that Humans start off with common + racial language like the other ancestries; with their languages too be choosen from being the typical Human languages (Skald; Hallit; Tien; Varisian; etc.). Does anyone know if this is right?

That's how it worked in the playtest, yeah. Humans get Common and their native tongue. Taldans confirmed for worst Humans because they get half as many languages.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Unless you have a Cleric or someone else with Create Water (which most PC groups do).

I didn't think that needed said as groups with a ready water source do not normally need to carry water.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Unless all of them are doing this, and all the packs get stolen, which is a pretty unlikely, this does very little.

Stolen yes: Destroyed is easier. If the idea is to slow the party down an attack that ruins the packs content might be better anyway.

PS: this also makes me wonder about area attack spells. I'll be curious how unattended items fair if they are caught in a fireball.

As to published adventures? Maybe? I play enough non-published adventures I don't think it's really a concern for me. As for plausible, it's not vary tough at all. A simple trap that opens a door, trapdoor, ect is enough let a monster out after they pass.

masda_gib wrote:
But the "guy not in melee" is part of the encounter. If that guy is competent enough to sneak away with the backpack and leave no tracks

Tracks isn't an issue IMO: you're going 1/2 speed to track while the other guy is going normal speed. He's pretty much fine as long as he stays out of sight. As to hiding, a simple invisibility manages that fine [or a similar ability] especially if you're a move or two away from the packs.

*shrug* If you guys don't think it'll be an issue for you, cool. I'm just saying I don't think it's something I plan to do [drop packs]. At this point I think I've said about all I want to here as we're straying a bit from the topic: that said, I'll happily join in about this in a more appropriate thread if one comes up.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Arachnofiend wrote:
Some Kind of Chymist wrote:
So Iakhovas starts with two languages (Common and Osiriani) and an Int of 10 so I'm assuming that Humans start off with common + racial language like the other ancestries; with their languages too be choosen from being the typical Human languages (Skald; Hallit; Tien; Varisian; etc.). Does anyone know if this is right?
That's how it worked in the playtest, yeah. Humans get Common and their native tongue. Taldans confirmed for worst Humans because they get half as many languages.

In the playtest, humans could pick any language they had access to, so all the common non-human languages were still options for any humans if they wanted to skip their regional language or got extra languages. Taldans got just as many languages as anyone else, they just didn't get a regional language option to choose from.

Designer

5 people marked this as a favorite.
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Some Kind of Chymist wrote:
So Iakhovas starts with two languages (Common and Osiriani) and an Int of 10 so I'm assuming that Humans start off with common + racial language like the other ancestries; with their languages too be choosen from being the typical Human languages (Skald; Hallit; Tien; Varisian; etc.). Does anyone know if this is right?
Playtest gave humans Common plus "one additional language selected from those to which you have access" so I'm guessing something like that persisted. I'm not sure how to figure out which languages a PC has access to, though. Like if my character is Taldan do I have to invent reasons I learned something other than Taldane (i.e. Common, at least in Avistan) in my backstory lest I just get less? How do I make it so my Taldan has access to Tien so they can speak 2 different kinds of Common?

You can always access common options. You might gain access to uncommon, rare, or unique options (though rare and unique are pretty much always during play).


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Tectorman wrote:

No, previously, I could have a character with their armor, a main melee weapon, a second main melee weapon, a backup melee weapon, several light weapons such as daggers or throwing axes, a ranged weapon (and more than enough ammo to not run out in a single adventure, provided I collected arrows after each fight), possibly a second ranged weapon and its ammo, plus rations and water, plus extraneous adventuring gear (shovel, torches, climbing/thieving/disguise kit or kits, acid flasks, healing potions) plus rope, rope, rope, rope, and more rope (yes, all five).

And have enough breathing room to be able to go into a dungeon and take things out. No, not ten orcs' worth of armor and greataxes, but if the adventure has potions, or masterwork or magical gear deliberately put in as loot, then I would at least be able to take that out.

Let's examine how true this is objectively.

You used Seelah as an example of this issue in PF2, so let's examine it using her shown weapons and armor.

Longsword + Longbow + 20 Arrows + Morningstar (for B and P) + Dagger + Heavy Steel Shield + Plate Armor = 82 lbs.

Shovel + 10 Torches + Climbing Kit + 2 Acid Flasks + 2 Healing Potions + Pathfinder's Kit + 100 feet Silk Rope = 59 lbs

That's 143 lbs. 158 if we actually gave you five lengths of rope.

The carrying capacity of Str 18 (her likely Str in PF1) is 100 lbs for a Light Load. So she's over that by a fair bit (the same as in PF2). Now, as you say, if she's willing to go up to a Heavy Load she can carry quite a bit more (up to 300 lbs, to be specific...which is a tad absurd, honestly).

But the thing is, we don't know what the Heavy Load is in PF2. In the playtest it was the same as Light Load +5 but that was an often complained about fact. A lot of people argued it should be double the Light Load (so 18 Bulk in the case of someone with a +4 Str Mod). If they went that route then the two are suddenly very much equivalent situations.

I am not sure if I should be that guy, and might have been ninja’d, but the PF1 rules for character creation leaves Seelah with a 16 in strength . So make of that what you will

Also I got the vibe that the actual weight capacities were always absurd in pathfinder . Almost every fighter had strength of 18. But if you looked at things like the pickup (deadlift) and lift overhead limits then the current World Strongest Man competitors come out somewhere in (I think ) the 15-17 range. I know it is a fantasy game but the abstraction didn’t work so well in general


1 person marked this as a favorite.
swoosh wrote:

I'm just imagining being some bandit or goblin mook facing down a pissed off paladin, raging barbarian and lightning hurling wizard and deciding to throw my life away so I can moderately inconvenience them by smashing a couple water bottles.

People here run weird games.

No it seems like when people are no fully happy they are coming up with rationales as to why they aren’t . And some happen to be reasonable and others outlandish. It is happening on some of the other threads as well

If something truly important is nabbed mid fight then that is an adventure book. If you are or have the sort of GM who would have something swiped in this scenario be the end of said item then words need having in general

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
tqomins wrote:


Frames Janco wrote:

Only thing I'm slightly disappointed to see confirmed is the colour scheme on the character sheet.

Here's to hoping there's a cleaner, print friendly version. But excited regardless

Erik Mona promises a printer-friendly version:

Erik Mona wrote:
There will for sure be a printer-friendly version.

I really hope so. Not just for ink, but the contrast/colors of the sheet are hard for me to see.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

As the guy who is the 'eternal GM' for his gaming group, I'm a little jealous of all of the folks who have 1e characters they're excited to update.

201 to 250 of 378 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / General Discussion / Paizo Blog: Experience Builds Character All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.