s

Experience Builds Character

Tuesday, July 2, 2019

Making a character in Pathfinder Second Edition is a process that most experienced gamers will find familiar, but wherever possible, we made changes to make the process more intuitive while still giving you a mountain of choices and flexibility. It all starts with imagining the character you want to play. Maybe you want to be a ferocious dwarven warrior who takes on the aspects of an animal in the heat of battle. Maybe you want to play a wise-cracking elven con artist who grew up on the streets, but now plays at being a member of high society. Or maybe you just want to make a mysterious wizard that loves to blow things up. Pathfinder gives you all the tools to make these characters and countless more! Even if you don't have a complete concept in mind, the steps of character creation in Pathfinder are there to help you make the big decisions and focus in on a character that you are excited to play.

Learning your ABCs

With a concept in mind (no matter how fully formed), the next step is to make the major decisions about your character. We call these decisions your ABCs because you need to decide on your character's Ancestry, Background, and Class. By making these big choices, along with any additional decisions that come with each, the character you want to play will take shape!

Think of these choices as deciding the major moments in your character's youth. First off you were born, the details of which are decided by your Ancestry. Next up is your youth, which is molded by your Background. Finally, your Class decides the life you have chosen to live as an adventurer. Along each step of the way, you will make additional decisions that reinforce and shape the image of your character. Chief among these are your ability scores. Each step of your ABCs impacts your ability scores, giving boosts and flaws to these six vital stats, changing your raw potential to accomplish tasks and overcome danger.

Details and Polish

Throughout the character creation process, you must record a variety of details about your character. Many of these are simple proficiency upgrades, noting your character's aptitude at performing specific tasks or resisting effects. Others require you to select from a list of options, like your ancestry's heritage or a feat from your class. Every single choice you make influences what you can accomplish during play, making you different from the others around you. Even if some of the big choices are the same, these smaller decisions can make two clerics, for example, play entirely differently. One might be a virtuous warrior priest, fighting for her deity with blade and shield, while the other is a pious adherent, using spells and sermons to preach a peaceful path.

Once all of the choices have been made, it's time to buy your starting gear and begin filling out all of your statistics. Starting heroes have precious few gold pieces to start with and buying the right gear can mean the difference between a glorious career and a forgotten grave.

Illustration of Iakhovas by Giorgio Baroni

 

Iakhovas
To illustrate this process, I'll be building a Second Edition version of one of my First Edition Pathfinder Society characters, named Iakhovas.


Step 1: Create a Concept

What sort of hero do you want to play? The answer to this question might be as simple as "a brave warrior," or as complicated as "the child of elven wanderers, but raised in a city dominated by humans and devoted to Sarenrae, goddess of the sun." Consider your character's personality, sketch out a few details about their past, and think about how and why they adventure. Many character concepts center around the character's class, their ancestry, or both, so it might be a good idea to flip through the available ancestries and classes to help inspire you. The Core Rulebook includes a helpful spread with a quick summary of each.

Your character's concept might also center around their background, personal identity, deity, relationship to the other characters, or anything else you can imagine!

Iakhovas: Concept
My concept for Iakhovas was a defense-focused master of all martial techniques, skilled and willing to protect and train others, shaped by the death of his sister and his revenge against the vampire Talia Nightcrescent, whose staking makes him a wanted murderer in the undead-dominated nation of Geb. This concept means Iakhovas is a Garundi human, probably either a fighter or a monk.


Step 2: Start Building Ability Scores

Start all ability scores at 10 in preparation for the later steps. This is a good time to start thinking about what ability scores will be important for your character. You can even jot down your ability scores as you adjust them on your character sheet.

Above you'll see a character sheet with numbered indicators to show you where you need to write something in each numbered step.

Iakhovas: Ability Scores
I start all of Iakhovas's ability scores at 10. Thinking about the way I see him fighting, I think he's likely to fight with a combination of strength and grace in order to be a master of all martial techniques, so I'm likely to prioritize Dexterity and Strength. I see him as being wise and fit as well, so if I get a chance, I might want to raise Constitution or Wisdom.


Step 3: Select an Ancestry

Select an ancestry for your character. Ancestry determines your character's size, Speed, and languages, and contributes to their Hit Points. Each also grants ability boosts and ability flaws to represent the ancestry's basic capabilities.

You'll make four decisions when you select your character's ancestry:

  • Pick the ancestry itself.
  • Assign any free ability boosts and decide if you are taking any voluntary flaws.
  • Select a heritage from those available within that ancestry, further defining the traits your character was born with.
  • Choose an ancestry feat, representing an ability your hero learned at an early age.

Iakhovas: Ancestry
Since I selected human for Iakhovas's ancestry, he is Medium size, has a 25-foot Speed, speaks Common and Osiriani to start, and begins with 8 Hit Points from his ancestry.

Both of his ability boosts are free, so I assign them to Strength and Dexterity, the two I decided were most important to him in Step 2. This brings him to 12 Strength and Dexterity. I don't see Iakhovas as being particularly unintelligent or uncharismatic, and I said I wanted to try to raise the other four ability scores, so I won't be taking any voluntary flaws.

Skilled Heritage: Your ingenuity allows you to train in a wide variety of skills. You become trained in one skill of your choice. At 5th level, you become an expert in the chosen skill.For Iakhovas's heritage, I have some great options. Mechanically, the half-elf and half-orc heritages bring a lot to the table, with better vision and access to some excellent new feats, but conceptually, I pictured Iakhovas as a standard human. I eventually choose the skilled heritage, since that will help me fulfill my concept of being skilled a little better, even if I can't invest as much in Intelligence. Since I want him to be a master of all martial techniques, I choose Athletics as his trained skill from his heritage.

Natural Ambition, Feat 1. Human. You were raised to be ambitious and always reach for the stars, leading you to progress quickly in your chosen field. You gain a 1st-level class feat for your class. You must meet the prerequisites, but you can select the feat later in the character creation process in order to determine which prerequisites you meet.Finally, I choose an ancestry feat. Haughty Obstinancy has a nice benefit against vampiric domination, but it doesn't really fit his personality. Natural Skill would give him yet more skills, and Cooperative Nature would grant him an incredible +4 circumstance bonus to Aiding his allies, both of which fit his concept, but eventually I decide to take Natural Ambition, which will grant him another class feat and help him be a master of all martial techniques. I can wait and choose the class feat later on, as Natural Ambition mentions.


Step 4: Pick a Background

Your character's background might represent their upbringing, an aptitude they've been honing since their youth, or another aspect of their life before they became an adventurer. They typically provide two ability boosts (one that can be applied to either of two specific ability scores, and one that is free), training in a specific skill, training in a Lore skill, and a specific skill feat.

Iakhovas: Background
Iakhovas's background is one of the parts of him that is most difficult to quantify here. He and his sister were used for their blood by a vampire—the sister of a Blood Lord of Geb—until the vampire overfed and killed his sister, breaking him free of his domination and leading him to stake the vampire while she slept. Then wanted for murder, he escaped Geb and joined the Pathfinders, trading his loyalty for the promise of asylum. He is certainly a criminal in Geb, and criminal is a background, but he hasn't really lived the life of a criminal, so the mechanical elements wouldn't make much sense. Laborer is normally a good choice for characters enslaved by evil creatures, but that background is about a life of manual labor, and Iakhovas was kept around for his blood. My other options are acolyte, acrobat, animal whisperer, artisan, artist, barkeep, barrister, bounty hunter, charlatan, detective, emissary, entertainer, farmhand, field medic, fortune teller, gambler, gladiator, guard, herbalist, hermit, hunter, martial disciple, merchant, miner, noble, nomad, prisoner, sailor, scholar, scout, street urchin, tinker, or warrior.

If I was using Lost Omens World Guide, I would have the absolutely perfect background, "Quick."
Quick. Background. Staying alive among the scheming, ravenous undead of Geb required a deep knowledge of their motivations, capabilities, and weaknesses. More often than not, it also required the ability to weave alibis and life-preserving half-truths capable of swaying a stilled heart. Choose two ability boosts. One must be to Charisma or Constitution, and one is a free ability boost. You're trained in the Deception skill and the Undead Lore skill. You gain the Charming Liar skill feat.

As is, I still have a good choice with the core: I can focus not on who he was in Geb but who he has become, and choose martial disciple, so that's what I do.
Martial Disciple. Background. You dedicated yourself to intense training and rigorous study to become a great warrior. The school you attended might have been a traditionalist monastery, an elite military academy, or the local branch of a prestigious mercenary organization. Choose two ability boosts. One must be to Strength or Dexterity, and one is a free ability boost. You're trained in your choice of the Acrobatics or Athletics skill. You gain a skill feat: Cat Fall if you chose Acrobatics or Quick Jump if you chose Athletics. You're also trained in the Warfare Lore skill.

For my ability score, I can't go wrong since it has my two favorite options! I take Strength and Dexterity both (They are both now 14). I'm already trained in Athletics from my heritage, so I choose Acrobatics for my skill, gaining the Cat Fall skill feat. Then I gain Warfare Lore automatically.
Cat Fall. Feat 1. General. Skill. Prerequisites: trained in Acrobatics. Your catlike aerial acrobatics allow you to cushion your falls. Treat falls as 10 feet shorter. If you're an expert in Acrobatics, treat falls as 25 feet shorter. If you're a master in Acrobatics, treat them as 50 feet shorter. If you're legendary in Acrobatics, you always land on your feet and don't take damage, regardless of the distance of the fall.



Step 5: Choose a Class

At this point, you need to decide your character's class. A class gives your character access to a suite of heroic abilities, determines how effectively they fight, and governs how easily they can shake off or avoid certain harmful effects. You don't need to write down all of your character's class features yet. You simply need to know which class you want to play, which determines the ability scores that will be most important for your character.

Iakhovas: Class
OK, this is the moment of truth. I knew I was going to build him as either a monk or a fighter, and now that I've followed him down this journey, I'm thinking monk! It's okay, I'll take the fighter archetype later to really mix up his martial techniques. At this point I'm just recording my key ability score from monk. I get to pick Strength or Dexterity again—my two favorites—but this time I'm forced to choose between them. After a little internal debate, I decide on Strength, so Strength is now 16.


Step 6: Determine Ability Scores

Now that you've made the main mechanical choices about your character, it's time to finalize their ability scores. Do these three things:

  • First, make sure you've applied all the ability boosts and ability flaws you've noted in previous steps (from your ancestry, background, and class).
  • Then, apply four more ability boosts to your character's ability scores, choosing a different ability score for each and increasing that ability score by 2.
  • Finally, record your starting ability scores and ability modifiers.
Remember that each ability boost adds 2 to the base score of 10, and each ability flaw subtracts 2. You should have no ability score lower than 8 or higher than 18.

Iakhovas: Ability Scores
After applying the previous steps, I have Strength 16, Dexterity 14, and all the rest 10. For my four additional boosts, I'll choose to boost Strength and Dexterity again, and then Wisdom and Constitution, which I had been looking for a way to boost but hadn't until now. This leaves me with Strength 18, Dexterity 16, Constitution 12, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 12, Charisma 10.


Step 7: Record Class Details

Now, record all the benefits and class features that your character receives from the class you've chosen. While you've already noted your key ability score, you'll want to be sure to record the following class features.

  • To determine your character's total starting Hit Points, add together the number of Hit Points your character gains from their ancestry and the number of Hit Points they gain from their class.
  • The Initial Proficiencies section of your class entry indicates your character's starting proficiency ranks in a number of areas. Choose which skills your character is trained in and record those, along with the ones set by your class. If your class would make you trained in a skill you're already trained in (typically due to your background), you can select another skill to become trained in.
  • See the class advancement table in your class entry to learn the class features your character gains at 1st level—but remember, you already chose an ancestry and background. Some class features require you to make additional choices, such as selecting spells.

Iakhovas: Class Details
With 8 Hit Points from his human ancestry, 10 from the monk class, and 1 from Constitution, Iakhovas ends with a very respectable 19 HP. His initial proficiencies tell me he is trained in Perception, has expert proficiency in all three saving throws, is trained in simple weapons and unarmed attacks, is untrained in all armor but has expert proficiency in unarmored defense, and has trained proficiency in monk class DC. He's also trained in a number of skills equal to 4 plus his Intelligence modifier, so four. Since he already has Acrobatics and Athletics, I decide his other skills are Medicine since he would have needed to perform to bandage up and handle lost blood, Stealth for sneaking around and escaping the notice of the undead, Religion to represent his new faith in Pharasma (goddess of death) and his knowledge of undead weaknesses, and Diplomacy to cover the way he likes to instruct new recruits—in a friendly fashion rather than like a drill sergeant.

The advancement table shows me he also gets powerful fist, the incredibly potent Flurry of Blows action, and a monk feat of my choice!
Powerful Fist. You know how to wield your fists as deadly weapons. The damage die for your fist changes to 1d6 instead of 1d4. Most people take a –2 circumstance penalty when making a lethal attack with nonlethal unarmed attacks, because they find it hard to use their fists with deadly force. You don't take this penalty when making a lethal attack with your fist or any other unarmed attacks.

Flurry of Blows [one-action]. Flourish. Monk. Make two unarmed Strikes. If both hit the same creature, combine their damage for the purpose of resistances and weaknesses. Apply your multiple attack penalty to the Strikes normally. As it has the flourish trait, you can use Flurry of Blows only once per turn.

Now it's time to choose my monk feat. And I get two feats, thanks to Natural Ambition. As a master of all martial techniques, I definitely want Iakhovas to have a stance. Looking through the options, there are a lot of very good choices. Dragon Stance and Wolf Stance are both strong using the stats I have right now, but Mountain Stance is tempting, even if it would mean I'd need to go back and rearrange some earlier choices to deprioritize Dexterity.
Dragon Stance [one-action]. Feat 1. Monk. Stance.  Requirements: You are unarmored. You enter the stance of a dragon and make powerful leg strikes like a lashing dragon's tail. You can make dragon tail attacks that deal 1d10 bludgeoning damage. They are in the brawling group and have the backswing, nonlethal, and unarmed traits.
While in Dragon Stance, you can ignore the first square of difficult terrain while Striding.

Mountain Stance [one-action]. Feat 1. Monk. Stance.  Requirements: You are unarmored and touching the ground. You enter the stance of an implacable mountain—a technique first discovered by dwarven monks—allowing you to strike with the weight of an avalanche. The only Strikes you can make are falling stone unarmed attacks. These deal 1d8 bludgeoning damage; are in the brawling group; and have the forceful, nonlethal, and unarmed traits.
While in Mountain Stance, you gain a +4 status bonus to AC and a +2 circumstance bonus to any defenses against being Shoved or Tripped. However, you have a Dexterity modifier cap to your AC of +0, meaning you don't add your Dexterity to your AC, and your Speeds are all reduced by 5 feet.

Wolf Stance [one-action]. Feat 1. Monk. Stance.  Requirements: You are unarmored. You enter the stance of a wolf, low to the ground with your hands held like fanged teeth. You can make wolf jaw unarmed attacks. These deal 1d8 piercing damage; are in the brawling group; and have the agile, backstabber, finesse, nonlethal, and unarmed traits.
If you’re flanking a target while in Wolf Stance, your wolf jaw unarmed attacks also gain the trip trait.

Ki Rush. Focus 1. Uncommon. Monk. Transmutation. Casting [one-action]: verbal. Accelerated by your ki, you move with such speed you become a blur. Move two times: two Strides, two Steps, or one Stride and one Step (in either order). You gain the concealed condition during this movement and until the start of your next turn.  | Ki Strike. Focus 1. Uncommon. Monk. Transmutation. Casting [one-action]: verbal. You focus your ki into magical attacks. Make an unarmed Strike or Flurry of Blows (this doesn't change the limit on using only one flourish per turn). You gain a +1 status bonus to your attack rolls with the Strikes, and the Strikes deal 1d6 extra damage. This damage can be any of the following types of your choice, chosen each time you Strike: force, lawful (only if you're lawful), negative, or positive.

Offense, or mobility? This would grant a great deal of either when I needed them most, and as a monk, I could spend 10 minutes to meditate and strive for inner peace in order to recover my Focus Points, letting me use this in most battles as long as we rest between them. It's the closest call yet, but I decide to go for ki strike. I'll be keeping an eye on the party's offense vs. my ability to outpace my foes' movement and potentially retraining if I find out ki rush would have been more useful.


Step 8: Buy Equipment

At 1st level, your character has 15 gold pieces (150 silver pieces) to spend on armor, weapons, and other basic equipment. Your character's class lists the types of weapons and armor with which they are trained (or better!). Their weapons determine how much damage they deal in combat, and their armor influences their Armor Class; these calculations are covered in more detail in Step 10. Don't forget essentials such as food and traveling gear!

.

Iakhovas: Equipment
Monk Kit. Price: 4 gp, 9 sp; Bulk: 4 Bulk, 2 light; Money Left Over: 10 gp, 2 sp
Weapons: longspear, staff
Gear: adventurer's pack, bandolier, climbing kit, grappling hook, lesser smokestick As a monk, I don't really need too many weapons or armor, though a ranged weapon would be nice. I'll be fine with a monk's kit for 4 gp and 9 sp, plus maybe 10 javelins for 1 more gp for a ranged attack. Just because Iakhovas hates vampires so much, I spend 3 of my remaining gp on a vial of holy water, leaving plenty of money to help out others if necessary.


Step 9: Calculate Modifiers

With most of the big decisions for your character made, it's time to calculate the modifiers for your statistics. If your proficiency rank for a statistic is trained, expert, master, and legendary, your bonus equals your character's level plus another number based on the rank (2, 4, 6, and 8, respectively). If your character is untrained, your proficiency bonus is +0.

Iakhovas: Modifiers
Iakhovas winds up with +4 Perception (1 from level, 2 from trained proficiency, 1 from Wisdom), +6 Fortitude, +8 Reflex, +6 Will, +7 to hit with his melee attacks, +6 to hit with his ranged attacks, and a variety of trained skills, ranging from Athletics at +7 to Diplomacy and Warfare Lore at +3. He does 1d6+4 damage with his fist, 1d8+4 with his wolf jaw, and 1d6+4 with his thrown javelins.


Illustration by Mariusz Gandzel

Step 10: Finishing Details

At this point, you fill in all the details, including those to breathe more life into your character's personality like alignment, deity, age, and gender and pronouns, and those last mathematical details that weren't part of your modifiers like class DC, hero points, AC, and Bulk.

Iakhovas
As a devout Pharasmin but a team player who is often selfless in pursuit of protecting others, I definitely see Iakhovas as either neutral or neutral good. I decide on neutral good, and we'll see if that shifts during play. He is in his late 20s, after an early youth lost to vampiric domination. I decide to go with 28. His gender is male and he uses he/him pronouns. His class DC, as we saw before, is trained, and it's based on his Strength, so it would be 17 (10 + 4 from Strength + 1 from level + 2 for being trained). He generally would start a session with 1 Hero Point. His AC would be a solid 18 (10 + 3 from Dexterity + 1 from level + 4 from being an expert). Finally, he is carrying 5 Bulk and 3 light (4 Bulk 2 light from the monk kit, 1 more Bulk entirely of javelins, and then 1 light for holy water). He can carry way more than this, so he can probably help other team members who might be having trouble.


And that's it! What character are you going to be building first in Pathfinder Second Edition? Let me know in the comments below!

Mark Seifter
Designer




More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Pathfinder Second Edition
251 to 300 of 378 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | next > last >>
Silver Crusade

MythicFox wrote:
As the guy who is the 'eternal GM' for his gaming group, I'm a little jealous of all of the folks who have 1e characters they're excited to update.

Maybe try organized play, that is how I finally got the chance to play a bit.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Lanathar wrote:
I am not sure if I should be that guy, and might have been ninja’d, but the PF1 rules for character creation leaves Seelah with a 16 in strength . So make of that what you will

Seelah's been made a lot of different ways. But really, all I was grabbing from her was the equipment list, and only because Tectorman had already complained about her PF2 equipment's total numbers.

The point is that both a PF1 and PF2 Str 18 character goes over their Light Load of tricked out with all the stuff Tectorman was talking about.

Lanathar wrote:
Also I got the vibe that the actual weight capacities were always absurd in pathfinder . Almost every fighter had strength of 18. But if you looked at things like the pickup (deadlift) and lift overhead limits then the current World Strongest Man competitors come out somewhere in (I think ) the 15-17 range. I know it is a fantasy game but the abstraction didn’t work so well in general

Doing a bit of cursory research, the world record for deadlift is over 1100 lbs. which is between 22 and 23 Str by the rules, and the world record Clean and Jerk (which is above the head) is around 570 lbs (260 kilos, to be specific), which is likewise between Str 22 and 23.

So that actually sounds about right.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Tectorman wrote:

No, previously, I could have a character with their armor, a main melee weapon, a second main melee weapon, a backup melee weapon, several light weapons such as daggers or throwing axes, a ranged weapon (and more than enough ammo to not run out in a single adventure, provided I collected arrows after each fight), possibly a second ranged weapon and its ammo, plus rations and water, plus extraneous adventuring gear (shovel, torches, climbing/thieving/disguise kit or kits, acid flasks, healing potions) plus rope, rope, rope, rope, and more rope (yes, all five).

And have enough breathing room to be able to go into a dungeon and take things out. No, not ten orcs' worth of armor and greataxes, but if the adventure has potions, or masterwork or magical gear deliberately put in as loot, then I would at least be able to take that out.

Let's examine how true this is objectively.

You used Seelah as an example of this issue in PF2, so let's examine it using her shown weapons and armor.

Longsword + Longbow + 20 Arrows + Morningstar (for B and P) + Dagger + Heavy Steel Shield + Plate Armor = 82 lbs.

Shovel + 10 Torches + Climbing Kit + 2 Acid Flasks + 2 Healing Potions + Pathfinder's Kit + 100 feet Silk Rope = 59 lbs

That's 143 lbs. 158 if we actually gave you five lengths of rope.

The carrying capacity of Str 18 (her likely Str in PF1) is 100 lbs for a Light Load. So she's over that by a fair bit (the same as in PF2). Now, as you say, if she's willing to go up to a Heavy Load she can carry quite a bit more (up to 300 lbs, to be specific...which is a tad absurd, honestly).

But the thing is, we don't know what the Heavy Load is in PF2. In the playtest it was the same as Light Load +5 but that was an often complained about fact. A lot of people argued it should be double the Light Load (so 18 Bulk in the case of someone with a +4 Str Mod). If they went that route then the two are suddenly very much equivalent situations.

I believe in 1e you use the higher weight of what your carrying or what armor your wearing to determine encumbrance, you don’t combine them.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Pumpkinhead11 wrote:
@Tectorman - that... just sounds like way too much stuff to take into a dungeon on one person.

Indeed. Of course someone wearing heavy armor while carrying seven or more weapons into battle is going to be encumbered.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
I believe in 1e you use the higher weight of what your carrying or what armor your wearing to determine encumbrance, you don’t combine them.

Not the case; it's true that carrying capacity and encumbrance from medium/heavy armor have similar penalties that do not stack, but you account for the weight of your armor when determining your carrying capacity. This doesn't matter much because if you're wearing full plate then even heavy encumbrance from weight doesn't actually do anything; the penalties are identical.

Dark Archive

First World Bard wrote:

I don’t understand your worry, and feel that it might be misplaced, or at least premature.

Focus pools now start at 1, not the relevant ability score modifier. But the Wild Shape pool is something else, and might still be Strength based. Is that your concern?

Maybe, but in the chart the Rogues have different Key Ability Score; Druids don't.

Then a druid can't start at level 1 with Strength 18. This is the point.


It is kind of surprising to me that Wild Druids can't choose to start with 18 strength. Given that's your accuracy stat if you've chosen that path it seems more important than starting with 18 charisma for a feinting Rogue would be (I think in most cases that Rogue still wants dexterity).


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Mr. Paru wrote:
First World Bard wrote:

I don’t understand your worry, and feel that it might be misplaced, or at least premature.

Focus pools now start at 1, not the relevant ability score modifier. But the Wild Shape pool is something else, and might still be Strength based. Is that your concern?

Maybe, but in the chart the Rogues have different Key Ability Score; Druids don't.

Then a druid can't start at level 1 with Strength 18. This is the point.

Okay, I understand now. Not something I would do, but I am sorry you cannot.

Liberty's Edge

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
I believe in 1e you use the higher weight of what your carrying or what armor your wearing to determine encumbrance, you don’t combine them.

You use the more restrictive of the Armor Check penalties and Max Dex Modifiers, but your armor's weight absolutely counts towards the Weight-based version. This is outlined on p. 169 of the PF1 Core Rulebook. It does admittedly make being encumbered almost meaningless to Full Plate users, but the weight allowances are not actually changed.

Encumbrance from Bulk does stack more than this in the PF2 playtest, but it's actually only really restrictive on movement (granting a -10 foot penalty), with no effect on Max Dex Mod at all.

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Arachnofiend wrote:
It is kind of surprising to me that Wild Druids can't choose to start with 18 strength. Given that's your accuracy stat if you've chosen that path it seems more important than starting with 18 charisma for a feinting Rogue would be (I think in most cases that Rogue still wants dexterity).

When actually using Wild Shape you have no accuracy stat. The spell provides a flat modifier. Str is useful for Wild Shape in that it provides more uses per day for Wild Order Druids, not in greater to-hit.

I assume the conclusion was that, in human form, they should lag a bit behind people who are used to actually fighting while standing upright...


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Lanathar wrote:
I am not sure if I should be that guy, and might have been ninja’d, but the PF1 rules for character creation leaves Seelah with a 16 in strength . So make of that what you will

Seelah's been made a lot of different ways. But really, all I was grabbing from her was the equipment list, and only because Tectorman had already complained about her PF2 equipment's total numbers.

The point is that both a PF1 and PF2 Str 18 character goes over their Light Load of tricked out with all the stuff Tectorman was talking about.

Lanathar wrote:
Also I got the vibe that the actual weight capacities were always absurd in pathfinder . Almost every fighter had strength of 18. But if you looked at things like the pickup (deadlift) and lift overhead limits then the current World Strongest Man competitors come out somewhere in (I think ) the 15-17 range. I know it is a fantasy game but the abstraction didn’t work so well in general

Doing a bit of cursory research, the world record for deadlift is over 1100 lbs. which is between 22 and 23 Str by the rules, and the world record Clean and Jerk (which is above the head) is around 570 lbs (260 kilos, to be specific), which is likewise between Str 22 and 23.

So that actually sounds about right.

I stand corrected as it has clearly been a while since I looked at this but I sure I had Thor/The Mountain at about 18

Maybe I was thinking that those guys are overly specialised and so it isn’t that versatile. But that isn’t true for strongman stuff which actually is quite versatile strength.

Or maybe it was the idea that the deadlift numbers claimed are for very efficiently proportioned barbells and as soon as that is translated into what the PCs will be lifted (such as another person or monster or rock ) it goes way down. But that is getting overly technical I accept !

I think i still thought that whatever 18 strength shakes out as was very very strong in real world terms considering almost all melee characters start with that (especially now). It was a little odd in my mind because I think it seemed high even if we assume adventurers only make up the top 1% (I guess the percentage is smaller)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
MythicFox wrote:
As the guy who is the 'eternal GM' for his gaming group, I'm a little jealous of all of the folks who have 1e characters they're excited to update.
Maybe try organized play, that is how I finally got the chance to play a bit.

Is there much online organised play as pathfinder really doesn’t seem prevalent here in the U.K.

(Time zones still a potential issues)

Even doing the looking for games on Roll20 doesn’t heed much by way of results.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I know it's not particularly original or out there, but I am planning to make a halfling ranger who eventually multiclasses into a champion of Erastil. I usually play rogues and have never been interested in either rangers or paladins in 1E, but the playtest/2E rules have made me quite excited about them!

I am the eternal GM for my home game (which tbh I quite like being), but I thought maybe I would make him for organised play (which I haven't done before, but there is a Pathfinder Society lodge here in Manchester UK, and I'm interested in trying it out when 2E is finally out).


Eternal GM here too, but since I have always at least one very small table I have a lot of potential to add in npcs and there is one specific that always joins
Liria Cloudfox
A good natured elf (usually follow of desna, shely or sarenrae) who want to help people.
Well, her class varies heavily on what her party composition and my mood is :P
But always there to care for her girlfriend (which is my girlfriends character :D)
Thianna Diannley
She was usually mesmerist, not sure what she is going to do, I would guess rogue or sorcerer - Usually an elf and/or aasimar or something similar

And yes, I had these pictures made for them :P

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Lanathar wrote:

I stand corrected as it has clearly been a while since I looked at this but I sure I had Thor/The Mountain at about 18

Maybe I was thinking that those guys are overly specialised and so it isn’t that versatile. But that isn’t true for strongman stuff which actually is quite versatile strength.

Possibly. strong man stuff is definitely a lot more versatile in what they need to do with their strength.

Lanathar wrote:
Or maybe it was the idea that the deadlift numbers claimed are for very efficiently proportioned barbells and as soon as that is translated into what the PCs will be lifted (such as another person or monster or rock ) it goes way down. But that is getting overly technical I accept !

Personally, in PF1, I'd call the barbells a Masterwork Tool for an effective +2 Str (meaning real world people max out at Str 20 or 21)...but then, the real world also maxes out around Level 6, so that's the max real people should hit.

Lanathar wrote:
I think i still thought that whatever 18 strength shakes out as was very very strong in real world terms considering almost all melee characters start with that (especially now). It was a little odd in my mind because I think it seemed high even if we assume adventurers only make up the top 1% (I guess the percentage is smaller)

Oh, it's ludicrously strong and probably unrealistic to be as common as it is based on NPCs...if Golarion were Earth. People on Golarion, taken in aggregate, are clearly physically superior to people on Earth in a variety of ways (as high level ones surviving immersion in lava demonstrates).


Dragon and Wolf stance are 1 action and have a Requirement; Mountain Stance is one action but has a Trigger. Day 1 Errata?


4 people marked this as a favorite.
lordcirth wrote:
Dragon and Wolf stance are 1 action and have a Requirement; Mountain Stance is one action but has a Trigger. Day 1 Errata?

Pobodies nerfect


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I wonder if the "standing on the ground" requirement for mountain style is more "not swimming, flying" or more "not on the deck of a ship, on the 2nd floor of a mansion, on a frozen lake, on another plane which is not the plane of earth or the First World, etc." Second interpretation might be a problem.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Bardarok wrote:
lordcirth wrote:
Dragon and Wolf stance are 1 action and have a Requirement; Mountain Stance is one action but has a Trigger. Day 1 Errata?
Pobodies nerfect

Could be an error.

It's also possible that mountain stance's additional caveat "and must be touching the ground," makes it a "trigger" and not a "requirement".

One possible reading: "trigger" means that it's a pre-condition only for entering the stance, whereas "requirement" means you must also maintain that condition to stay in the stance. According to this logic, mountain stance has a "trigger" and not a "requirement" so that a mountain stance monk doesn't lose the benefit of the stance when they jump.

It's a bit of a stretch, but it might be the underlying rationale for the difference in wording (assuming there is one).


2 people marked this as a favorite.
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I wonder if the "standing on the ground" requirement for mountain style is more "not swimming, flying" or more "not on the deck of a ship, on the 2nd floor of a mansion, on a frozen lake, on another plane which is not the plane of earth or the First World, etc." Second interpretation might be a problem.

I would bet that it's the former interpretation. The latter, while perhaps more technically "correct", is extremely problematic for actual play, as you pointed out. I doubt they would design a character defining stance feat with such an un-fun and circumstantially crippling limitation.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

I want to make my brewmaster that wields a barrel and throws exploding bottles of booze.

But I don't know if the core rulebook has options for improvised weapons. I hope we don't have to wait another decade for decent improvised builds to become available only for 3rd Edition to be announced.


6 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm actually happy with the carrying capacity being relevant this time around. For too long have people dumped STR and gotten away with no repercussions because of how hard the old system was to track. Not to mention that example with carrying Full Plate + Entire warehouse worth of items is ridiculous when you really think about it.

Videogames have really changed the perception of this... I actually thought it was kinda cool how you'd figure out the logistics in old games. Had to have mules or henchmen carrying your stuff.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I mean, people often OVERestimate the weight one has to 'carry' when wearing a full plate, but yeah, people often carried to much other stuff around


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
ChibiNyan wrote:


Videogames have really changed the perception of this... I actually thought it was kinda cool how you'd figure out the logistics in old games. Had to have mules or henchmen carrying your stuff.

I think it depends on the game. In newer Fallouts carrying limits are just annoying because they don't really enforce any other mechanics. Survival style games a find carry limits really reinforce the theme.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lanathar wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
MythicFox wrote:
As the guy who is the 'eternal GM' for his gaming group, I'm a little jealous of all of the folks who have 1e characters they're excited to update.
Maybe try organized play, that is how I finally got the chance to play a bit.

Is there much online organised play as pathfinder really doesn’t seem prevalent here in the U.K.

(Time zones still a potential issues)

Even doing the looking for games on Roll20 doesn’t heed much by way of results.

It's my understanding that the Flaxseed Pathfinder Lodge regularly starts up PbP PFS games on these boards. I believe many PFS players use Warhorn to organize games; I'm not sure how many are online.

graystone wrote:
PS: this also makes me wonder about area attack spells. I'll be curious how unattended items fair if they are caught in a fireball.

There was a rule in P1e that unattended, unmagical items didn't get saving throws but just took full damage. Don't know about Playtest/P2e. But frankly, dropping backpacks wouldn't be a new tactic; I saw it fairly regularly in 3.x. I had a gnome rogue/cleric who couldn't even carry a bag of holding with her armor/weapons since the lightest one weighs 15 lbs (magic items by RAW don't get the weight reduction for Small characters that many mundane items do), and her light encumbrance level was 22.5 lbs.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

So I can already see some rules ambiguities here. Perhaps the rules will make it explicitly clear how Strikes are defined and how abilities that grant Strikes or modified Strikes interact with each other (like 4e's definition of 'Basic Attack'), but I'm imagining several scenarios involving the monk abilities spoiled here and not sure which are legal.

For example, is the following three action sequence intended to be allowed? Enter Mountain Stance (1st Action) - Ki Strike using Flurry of Blows with two Falling Stone Strikes at +1, dealing 2d8+2d6+8 if both hit (2nd Action) - Falling Stone Strike again (3rd Action).

If Flurry of Blows or Ki Strike can't be used with Falling Stone Unarmed attacks from the Mountain Stance, can one or both be used with other types of named Strikes, such as Wolf Jaw attacks or Lashing Dragon's Tail? Or are the stance attacks mutually exclusive with the Strikes granted by Flurry of Blows and Ki Strike?

Finally, with Ki Strike, do "the Strikes" deal 1d6 extra damage total (since they are combined for damage purposes for Flurry) or does each of the Strikes that hit deal an extra 1d6 damage (for 2d6 extra if both hit, or 4d6 extra when heightened)?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Insight wrote:

So I can already see some rules ambiguities here. Perhaps the rules will make it explicitly clear how Strikes are defined and how abilities that grant Strikes or modified Strikes interact with each other (like 4e's definition of 'Basic Attack'), but I'm imagining several scenarios involving the monk abilities spoiled here and not sure which are legal.

For example, is the following three action sequence intended to be allowed? Enter Mountain Stance (1st Action)- Ki Strike (2nd Action)- Flurry of Blows using two Falling Stone Strikes at +1, dealing 2d8+2d6+8 if both hit (3rd Action).

If Flurry of Blows or Ki Strike can't be used with Falling Stone Unarmed attacks from the Mountain Stance, can one or both be used with other types of named Strikes, such as Wolf Jaw attacks or Lashing Dragon's Tail? Or are the stance attacks mutually exclusive with the Strikes granted by Flurry of Blows and Ki Strike?

Finally, with Ki Strike, do "the Strikes" deal 1d6 extra damage total (since they are combined for damage purposes for Flurry) or does each of the Strikes that hit deal an extra 1d6 damage (for 2d6 extra if both hit, or 4d6 extra when heightened)?

IMO, there is no ambiguity here. The RAW is completely consistent, for the following reasons:

1) Only Mountain Stance limits the kinds of Strikes you can make. The others just give you an additional Strike option.
2) Ki Strike and Flurry of Blows both allow you to make one or more Strikes as part of the same action, with a few restrictions. Similarly, Mountain Stance limits your Strikes to only falling stone unarmed attacks, but nothing in Mountain Stance prevents you from taking the Ki Strike or Flurry of Blows actions.
3) So the order of operations (when already in Mountain Stance) is:

Order of Operations wrote:
Activate Ki Strike —> which triggers Flurry of Blows —> which allows you to make two Strikes as part of the same action —> which must both be falling stone unarmed attacks because of Mountain Stance.

Am I missing something? Seems completely consistent to me.

EDIT: To address a few more of your points: Ki Strike very explicitly grants the bonus damage to both Strikes made as part of a flurry, and stance-specific Strikes (e.g. Dragon Tail, Wolf Fang, etc.) are unarmed attacks, which explicitly makes them eligible for use with Flurry of Blows and Ki Strike.

EDIT2: If I understand you correctly, you're operating on the assumption that the Flurry of Blows / Ki Strike actions are themselves Strikes, and might therefore be restricted by stance-specific limitations on Strikes, correct? I think it's fairly clear that they are not themselves Strikes, rather they are actions that trigger and modify Strikes. If they were Strikes, they would be explicitly called out as such.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lanathar wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
MythicFox wrote:
As the guy who is the 'eternal GM' for his gaming group, I'm a little jealous of all of the folks who have 1e characters they're excited to update.
Maybe try organized play, that is how I finally got the chance to play a bit.

Is there much online organised play as pathfinder really doesn’t seem prevalent here in the U.K.

(Time zones still a potential issues)

Even doing the looking for games on Roll20 doesn’t heed much by way of results.

I have played via Roll20 quite a number of times, and ran a playtest game for 2 US residents, and Australian and two others... weird timing on a saturday ^^

If you are interested and the time zone is not too critical for you, I have started to offer English speaking Roll20.net games for players in the German/Dutch time zone, but of course, everyone is welcome.

Dutch/German PFS/SFS Online Inc.. Still early days, and I currently do not have the next session scheduled, but I can we try to announce them a couple of days before they happen.


Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Lanathar wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
MythicFox wrote:
As the guy who is the 'eternal GM' for his gaming group, I'm a little jealous of all of the folks who have 1e characters they're excited to update.
Maybe try organized play, that is how I finally got the chance to play a bit.

Is there much online organised play as pathfinder really doesn’t seem prevalent here in the U.K.

(Time zones still a potential issues)

Even doing the looking for games on Roll20 doesn’t heed much by way of results.

I have played via Roll20 quite a number of times, and ran a playtest game for 2 US residents, and Australian and two others... weird timing on a saturday ^^

If you are interested and the time zone is not too critical for you, I have started to offer English speaking Roll20.net games for players in the German/Dutch time zone, but of course, everyone is welcome.

Dutch/German PFS/SFS Online Inc.. Still early days, and I currently do not have the next session scheduled, but I can we try to announce them a couple of days before they happen.

Thanks for this. I will take a look. That time zone is only one hour off for me. It more comes down to scheduling for me as well


2 people marked this as a favorite.
ChibiNyan wrote:

I'm actually happy with the carrying capacity being relevant this time around. For too long have people dumped STR and gotten away with no repercussions because of how hard the old system was to track. Not to mention that example with carrying Full Plate + Entire warehouse worth of items is ridiculous when you really think about it.

Videogames have really changed the perception of this... I actually thought it was kinda cool how you'd figure out the logistics in old games. Had to have mules or henchmen carrying your stuff.

Thank you!

As an OSR player, logistics like that, such as weigh and resources, are part of a fun experience for me. Had a lot of discussions about this, with squires guarding most of the weight outside the dungeon and stuff like that ^^


Insight wrote:

So I can already see some rules ambiguities here. Perhaps the rules will make it explicitly clear how Strikes are defined and how abilities that grant Strikes or modified Strikes interact with each other (like 4e's definition of 'Basic Attack'), but I'm imagining several scenarios involving the monk abilities spoiled here and not sure which are legal.

For example, is the following three action sequence intended to be allowed? Enter Mountain Stance (1st Action) - Ki Strike using Flurry of Blows with two Falling Stone Strikes at +1, dealing 2d8+2d6+8 if both hit (2nd Action) - Falling Stone Strike again (3rd Action).

If Flurry of Blows or Ki Strike can't be used with Falling Stone Unarmed attacks from the Mountain Stance, can one or both be used with other types of named Strikes, such as Wolf Jaw attacks or Lashing Dragon's Tail? Or are the stance attacks mutually exclusive with the Strikes granted by Flurry of Blows and Ki Strike?

Finally, with Ki Strike, do "the Strikes" deal 1d6 extra damage total (since they are combined for damage purposes for Flurry) or does each of the Strikes that hit deal an extra 1d6 damage (for 2d6 extra if both hit, or 4d6 extra when heightened)?

It seems clear to me that Mountain Stance -> Ki Strike Flurry Falling Stone -> Falling Stone is a perfectly normal and expected turn.


lordcirth wrote:
Insight wrote:

So I can already see some rules ambiguities here. Perhaps the rules will make it explicitly clear how Strikes are defined and how abilities that grant Strikes or modified Strikes interact with each other (like 4e's definition of 'Basic Attack'), but I'm imagining several scenarios involving the monk abilities spoiled here and not sure which are legal.

For example, is the following three action sequence intended to be allowed? Enter Mountain Stance (1st Action) - Ki Strike using Flurry of Blows with two Falling Stone Strikes at +1, dealing 2d8+2d6+8 if both hit (2nd Action) - Falling Stone Strike again (3rd Action).

If Flurry of Blows or Ki Strike can't be used with Falling Stone Unarmed attacks from the Mountain Stance, can one or both be used with other types of named Strikes, such as Wolf Jaw attacks or Lashing Dragon's Tail? Or are the stance attacks mutually exclusive with the Strikes granted by Flurry of Blows and Ki Strike?

Finally, with Ki Strike, do "the Strikes" deal 1d6 extra damage total (since they are combined for damage purposes for Flurry) or does each of the Strikes that hit deal an extra 1d6 damage (for 2d6 extra if both hit, or 4d6 extra when heightened)?

It seems clear to me that Mountain Stance -> Ki Strike Flurry Falling Stone -> Falling Stone is a perfectly normal and expected turn.

Yup.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I know that everyone is excited about the Mountain Stance but I kinda like the Wolf one, I just don't really know what the trip trait do, but if it's that every time that you are flanking it let you try one trip attempt when attacking then it's awesome.

And with Flurry of Blows it would be two trip attempts that I think can combine with Stunning Fist, looks really fun.


Joana wrote:
But frankly, dropping backpacks wouldn't be a new tactic

This might be why it seems so off to me as I don't recall anyone ever dropping a pack in a lot of years of gaming. The closest I recall is once we had to drop a 1000 pound statue the party was carrying but that's it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Kyrone wrote:

I know that everyone is excited about the Mountain Stance but I kinda like the Wolf one, I just don't really know what the trip trait do, but if it's that every time that you are flanking it let you try one trip attempt when attacking then it's awesome.

And with Flurry of Blows it would be two trip attempts that I think can combine with Stunning Fist, looks really fun.

In the playtest, the trip trait allowed the following three things:

-You could use the trip weapon's reach and add its item bonus to your Athletics attempt to trip (using an action as normal).

-You didn't need a free hand as normally required.

-If you critically failed your Athletics check, you could drop the weapon (if possible), rather than fall prone.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Insight wrote:

In the playtest, the trip trait allowed the following three things:

-You could use the trip weapon's reach and add its item bonus to your Athletics attempt to trip (using an action as normal).

-You didn't need a free hand as normally required.

-If you critically failed your Athletics check, you could drop the weapon (if possible), rather than fall prone.

Let's hope they changed it for the final game. Those "bonuses" seem kind of moot for an unarmed attack.

Although, the thought of a monk "dropping" their arm to avoid falling prone is kind of funny!


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Bardic Dave wrote:
Insight wrote:

In the playtest, the trip trait allowed the following three things:

-You could use the trip weapon's reach and add its item bonus to your Athletics attempt to trip (using an action as normal).

-You didn't need a free hand as normally required.

-If you critically failed your Athletics check, you could drop the weapon (if possible), rather than fall prone.

Let's hope they changed it for the final game. Those "bonuses" seem kind of moot for an unarmed attack.

Although, the thought of a monk "dropping" their arm to avoid falling prone is kind of funny!

Lich/Skeletal Champion Monk


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Bardic Dave wrote:
Insight wrote:

In the playtest, the trip trait allowed the following three things:

-You could use the trip weapon's reach and add its item bonus to your Athletics attempt to trip (using an action as normal).

-You didn't need a free hand as normally required.

-If you critically failed your Athletics check, you could drop the weapon (if possible), rather than fall prone.

Let's hope they changed it for the final game. Those "bonuses" seem kind of moot for an unarmed attack.

Although, the thought of a monk "dropping" their arm to avoid falling prone is kind of funny!

There could be a general rule that you can drop out of the stance to avoid falling prone in that context.

But the real upgrade to wolf stance is backstabber, which is a much more elegant solution than "forceful while flanking."


Cyrad wrote:

I want to make my brewmaster that wields a barrel and throws exploding bottles of booze.

But I don't know if the core rulebook has options for improvised weapons. I hope we don't have to wait another decade for decent improvised builds to become available only for 3rd Edition to be announced. [/QUOTE

Improvised weapons were in the playtest. They are treated as simple weapons of poor quality (-2) GM chooses damage die and traits if appropriate.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Bardic Dave wrote:
Insight wrote:

In the playtest, the trip trait allowed the following three things:

-You could use the trip weapon's reach and add its item bonus to your Athletics attempt to trip (using an action as normal).

-You didn't need a free hand as normally required.

-If you critically failed your Athletics check, you could drop the weapon (if possible), rather than fall prone.

Let's hope they changed it for the final game. Those "bonuses" seem kind of moot for an unarmed attack.

Although, the thought of a monk "dropping" their arm to avoid falling prone is kind of funny!

To be fair while the bonuses may be redundant still having the trait is useful for the future. It lets them build feats/enhancements etc that work off the trip trait without having to constantly say "And Wolf Stance Strikes."


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Cyrad wrote:

I want to make my brewmaster that wields a barrel and throws exploding bottles of booze.

But I don't know if the core rulebook has options for improvised weapons. I hope we don't have to wait another decade for decent improvised builds to become available only for 3rd Edition to be announced.

Hmm, Alchemist with Bludgeoning weapon flavored as barrel and bombs flavors as exploding alcohol?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Captain Morgan wrote:


Also, Mountain Stance feels like a poor choice because it only gives you 1 more AC (and won't give any AC advantage when Mark boosts dexterity to 18 at level 5) in order to do less damage than Dragon stance and move slower.

Mountain Stance is for monks who *don't* increase Dex. Make a monk, give them 10 or 12 Dex, 18 strength, and put all those boosts you've saved on Dex into Con.


Personally I'd choose mountain Stance because it thematically fits the concept of the sort of monk I'd like to play, rather than the footsie dragon stance or the bestial wolf stance. I don't really care about the mechanics so much.

And even if I did care, I've made armor-less characters with low Dex before. They're not that uncommon and many are viable. Most wizards, some druids, and certain barbarians although those are exceptional for certain reasons. So the Mountain Stance kinda provides a bit of help to those who want to ignore Dexterity in favor of the other stats. It in no way means that folks have to ignore Dexterity.


Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

A monk doesn't highlight it, but are shields still tin-foil that needs replaced after every fight?

It's kind of important to a Redeemer goblin I'm working on.

IIRC, it's been revealed that a level 1 shield had hardness 8 and 20 HP. So that's pretty tough. Since both you and your shield take any damage over hardness, by the time your shield breaks you will be near death yourself. Not to mention the +2 AC to keep from being hit in the first place.


lordcirth wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:


Also, Mountain Stance feels like a poor choice because it only gives you 1 more AC (and won't give any AC advantage when Mark boosts dexterity to 18 at level 5) in order to do less damage than Dragon stance and move slower.
Mountain Stance is for monks who *don't* increase Dex. Make a monk, give them 10 or 12 Dex, 18 strength, and put all those boosts you've saved on Dex into Con.

Yes, I know. I was responding to someone who said that Mountain Stance was clearly the option you should go for, despite our sample monk having Dexterity as his second highest score.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

I think mountain stance is in a good place. It lets str/no-dex monks have pretty good defense paired with great offense but not as good offense as Str monks with high dex, and not as much defenses as dex monks can get. Seems all in all well positioned to enable concepts that were rough to play in the playtest without making anything else less appealing.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Great job at the blog here. Thank you.

For the bulk thing, would it be broken to have worn armour give you its usual penalty but not count towards Bulk ?

Character : Melee martial that dumps STR, maybe with max AC and saves, since this is how it ended up in PF1 (through much heavy multiclassing).

About dropping some things before going to fight, it makes sense to me that what you drop is both heavy and not vital to survival ;-)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Raven Black wrote:

Great job at the blog here. Thank you.

For the bulk thing, would it be broken to have worn armour give you its usual penalty but not count towards Bulk ?

Character : Melee martial that dumps STR, maybe with max AC and saves, since this is how it ended up in PF1 (through much heavy multiclassing).

well, worn armor should at least be considered as less bulky

read and watched several articels and videos on this, things I've seen while doing so:

A 14 year old girl with her own armor, she couldn't carry it in a box but do cartwheels while wearing it

several videos of knights easily standing up with full plate

a comparisation of a police man in heavy duty gear, a knight and a firemen on an obstacle course - their gear was weighting roughly the same, the knight came in second (the policemen the first) not much difference in the time

and several similar things


A level one druid could have 18 strength if they took drawbacks, could they not?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Gaulin wrote:
A level one druid could have 18 strength if they took drawbacks, could they not?

You need that class score to get up to 18. You can't use drawbacks to push you over 12 in that step, or it'd basically be expected from everyone.

251 to 300 of 378 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / General Discussion / Paizo Blog: Experience Builds Character All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.