Kingmaker 10th Anniversary Campaign Begins!

What I find strange that the progression and setup of this project will likely result in people having to pay extra to not get the faux leather special edition.

Currently the Ruler level is at $150 and it gets me the screen for free. If I prefer the standard edition, I have to get the Marshal level at $100 and have to play (maybe) $20 for the screen.

Now if more of these "Ruler level free add-ons" are coming, the moment their total cost passes $50, I'll have to pay more for the standard edition than for the special edition, if I want these add-ons.

Does that make sense?

Yes, assuming you want ALL the add-ons and really want to avoid the faux-leather. This is one of my minor concerns.

Removed some posts, and then lost the text I’d written up. I’ll have to reformulate it when I’ve finished my coffee and get into the office.

***

I managed to lose attempt number two as well, so this day is off to a great start.

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Updating with post removal information: If you have concerns about what another person is discussing, especially if it is coming from somewhere off of paizo.com, the best place to start is going to be emailing customer service and/or community. As the removed posts from this thread have demonstrated, when polarizing topics come up in this way, it’s too easy for the thread to devolve into picking apart the person, instead of having a respectful discussion about the content or questions they’ve brought up.

Jason Nelson wrote:

Likewise, the Forest Kingdom Campaign Compendium is normally $30 but is only $25 if you purchase it as part of the GameOnTabletop Kingmaker project, plus you can then buy the hardback after the fact at half price (i.e., $25 plus shipping directly from Legendary Games).

The one for this funding project is just the 5E version of the existing pathfinder book that is available Or is the 5E version already available too?

Both Pathfinder 1 and 5E versions of the Forest Kingdom Campaign Compendium are available right now. You can get them right now at the Legendary Games webstore as well as here at Paizo.com, the Open Gaming Store, Amazon, and DrivethruRPG (PDF only there; they don't resell physical books other than their own print-on-demand titles).

The PDFs can be added to a pledge as part of the Kingmaker project, and anybody adding the PDF there (at a $5 discount), and people who want the hardcover can then do the after-campaign direct order from us at half price and we'll ship their books directly *now*. You won't get the Kingmaker books from Paizo until they're ready late next year, but no need to wait on getting the Forest Kingdom hardcover from us! :)

Jason Nelson wrote:

Likewise, the Forest Kingdom Campaign Compendium is normally $30 but is only $25 if you purchase it as part of the GameOnTabletop Kingmaker project, plus you can then buy the hardback after the fact at half price (i.e., $25 plus shipping directly from Legendary Games).

So, it sounds like the hardback for Forest Campaign Compendium isn't available as part of backing the project, only the PDF with the additional discount if you get the PDF? (I don't run things off PDFs if I can help it, so I wouldn't have any use for the PDF itself.)

Otherwise, I'll hope to snag it at PaizoCon.

That is correct. It would have added complications to an already complex project for Paizo to fulfill and ship another company's physical books that are available NOW plus their own books that won't be coming out for a year and a half, so the simpler logistical solution on that end was to roll in the PDF (which obviously doesn't have the same issues) as a direct part of the project and then bridge it over to us for all backers who want to pick up physical Forest Kingdom products.

We'll definitely have copies available to purchase at PaizoCon, so you're welcome to get it then.

is there a pathfinder 1e version of the actual AP itself available?

if there are add-ons and other products in Pathfinder 1e, you would think there wold be a 1e version of the AP.

Yep :3

Yep :3

no, i'm talking about the "Kingmaker 10th Anniversary Campaign"

Meraki wrote:

Jason Nelson wrote:

Likewise, the Forest Kingdom Campaign Compendium is normally $30 but is only $25 if you purchase it as part of the GameOnTabletop Kingmaker project, plus you can then buy the hardback after the fact at half price (i.e., $25 plus shipping directly from Legendary Games).

So, it sounds like the hardback for Forest Campaign Compendium isn't available as part of backing the project, only the PDF with the additional discount if you get the PDF? (I don't run things off PDFs if I can help it, so I wouldn't have any use for the PDF itself.)

Otherwise, I'll hope to snag it at PaizoCon.

That is correct. It would have added complications to an already complex project for Paizo to fulfill and ship another company's physical books that are available NOW plus their own books that won't be coming out for a year and a half, so the simpler logistical solution on that end was to roll in the PDF (which obviously doesn't have the same issues) as a direct part of the project and then bridge it over to us for all backers who want to pick up physical Forest Kingdom products.

We'll definitely have copies available to purchase at PaizoCon, so you're welcome to get it then.

I figured that was the case, but I wanted to double check. Thanks, Jason!

Rysky wrote:

Yep :3

no, i'm talking about the "Kingmaker 10th Anniversary Campaign"

Hey chopswil, currently the Kingmaker AP only exists as the original releases in 1E. The crowdfunding is our first attempt at compiling the info like we have with Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne.

The main AP release will be in 2E and then we will have Bestiaries in both 1E and 5E as added support for the 2E version to allow play in those other two systems.

chopswil wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Yep :3

no, i'm talking about the "Kingmaker 10th Anniversary Campaign"

Hey chopswil, currently the Kingmaker AP only exists as the original releases in 1E. The crowdfunding is our first attempt at compiling the info like we have with Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne.

The main AP release will be in 2E and then we will have Bestiaries in both 1E and 5E as added support for the 2E version to allow play in those other two systems.

so by "Bestiary" you mean a conversion of the monster/NPC stat blocks in the new "Kingmaker 10th Anniversary Campaign" AP to 1e and not a Bestiary that is new monsters?

Jeff Alvarez wrote:

chopswil wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Yep :3

no, i'm talking about the "Kingmaker 10th Anniversary Campaign"

Hey chopswil, currently the Kingmaker AP only exists as the original releases in 1E. The crowdfunding is our first attempt at compiling the info like we have with Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne.

The main AP release will be in 2E and then we will have Bestiaries in both 1E and 5E as added support for the 2E version to allow play in those other two systems.

so by "Bestiary" you mean a conversion of the monster/NPC stat blocks in the new "Kingmaker 10th Anniversary Campaign" AP to 1e and not a Bestiary that is new monsters?

By Bestiary I mean stats for monsters/NPCs from the 2E Kingmaker AP and 2E Kingmaker Companion as well as rules updates and such.

So the Bestiary will include the NPCs from the Companion. Excellent! Thanks for that clarification.

Assuming someone has all of the current 1e volumes of Kingmaker, how much of the 1e bestiary will have new content? I'm sure the exact amount isn't known since the design updates havent been done, but I guessing that stat blocks on existing monsters wont be changing for 1e except possible errata. And some nods will stay the same while others might be updated to use rules classes, spells, etc which weren't around 10 years ago, such as making the old beldame a witch instead of a sorcerer for example. In addition, there will be stat blocks for new additions to the adventure.

That being said, is there an estimate of how much will be new or updated in the 1e bestiary? If its likely to be 75% or more that makes the bestiary add on much more useful than if its likely to be 25%.

We can't even guess at percentages until we know how much new content gets added.

I had a thought about this today... Will the kingdom building and mass combat rules be printed in the collected AP or will that be a separate book?

Sure, you need those rules to run the AP, but you also need the core rulebook and that won't be printed in the AP.
Both kingdom building and mass combat rules can be used in other campaigns so they should be in one of the 'core' PF2E books and not just in the Kingmaker AP book. But it would be weird to print the entire set of rules in the AP as well as another book... My assumption would be that the kingdom and mass combat rules won't be in the AP collection, similar to how the rules for the core game won't be.
Am I right in that assumption or will the AP have the kingdom rules in it?

I think if this would've been a KS project instead of gameontabletop it would've had alot more interest and generated better advertising for Paizo as a whole on that platform especially with the branching out into 5E.

It looks like we will be lucky to hit 300K at the end of it and I would think on KS this would've easily been a million dollar project.

Either way I'm looking forward to this project and am sure it will be top notch just think Paizo could've done better franchise wise to go with KS.

There are still:

Jaethal, Half-Elf Inquisitor,
Tristian, Human Cleric,
Ekundayo, Human Ranger,
Regongar, Half-Orc Magus,
Octavia, Half-Elf Arcane Trickster
Valerie, Human Fighter
Harrim, Dwarf Cleric

Gonna be real bummed if the book doesn't include all the companions. Hopefully we get a surge of pledges in the last couple days.

900 Backers has been crossed!
Only $10.7 to the level 20 expansion.

We should reach that at around 950 backers.

Only $10.7 to the level 20 expansion.

Question. I know in European countries, the usage of commas and decimal points is typically reversed from North American usage. That is to say, here we'd express ten thousand dollars and fifty cents as $10,000.50 while I understand in Europe that'd be $10.000,50 That said, your "$10.7" has me curious. It implies to me the value of ten thousand, seven hundred dollars, but I've never seen either European or North American usage truncate significant digits that way. As in, I've never seen $10,7 in North America in place of $10,700 The only thing I've ever seen truncated here is sub-dollar (cents), by omitting the decimal point and everything after it.

Is the short-form that you've used an actual thing, or is that a Marco-ism you've just done? I ask purely out of curiosity, not criticism.

I had a thought about this today... Will the kingdom building and mass combat rules be printed in the collected AP or will that be a separate book?

Sure, you need those rules to run the AP, but you also need the core rulebook and that won't be printed in the AP.
Both kingdom building and mass combat rules can be used in other campaigns so they should be in one of the 'core' PF2E books and not just in the Kingmaker AP book. But it would be weird to print the entire set of rules in the AP as well as another book... My assumption would be that the kingdom and mass combat rules won't be in the AP collection, similar to how the rules for the core game won't be.
Am I right in that assumption or will the AP have the kingdom rules in it?

My wife pointed out a flaw in my thinking... The AP will have to include the kingdom building and mass combat rules otherwise the people buying the 5E and/or PF1E bestiaries wouldn't be able to run it.

Marco Massoudi wrote:

Only $10.7 to the level 20 expansion.

Question. I know in European countries, the usage of commas and decimal points is typically reversed from North American usage. That is to say, here we'd express ten thousand dollars and fifty cents as $10,000.50 while I understand in Europe that'd be $10.000,50 That said, your "$10.7" has me curious. It implies to me the value of ten thousand, seven hundred dollars, but I've never seen either European or North American usage truncate significant digits that way. As in, I've never seen $10,7 in North America in place of $10,700 The only thing I've ever seen truncated here is sub-dollar (cents), by omitting the decimal point and everything after it.

Is the short-form that you've used an actual thing, or is that a Marco-ism you've just done? I ask purely out of curiosity, not criticism.

Actual thing, although it's typically done with a multiplier indicator so something like ten thousand seven hundred would be written as 10.7k (where "k" indicates 1000s), not just as 10.7, so it's clearer what the value actually is.

Numbers after 4 days:

-926 backers
$169.3k

Numbers after 4 days:

-926 backers
$169.3k

Paizo is the kind of company though that's going to say once its all said and done that they are going to fulfill a bunch of stretch goals that were never reached.

That said once this campaign is over I hope they don't take this as too much of a negative and instead go with KS next time so they can receive the exposure on their products they deserve.

What are the chances of NPC face cards being added as a stretch goal? They were never made for the original AP that I know of, so would be useful in lots of groups. This goes double with the added Companion characters from the Crpg.

I'm pretty dissatisfied they didn't use Kickstarter. The obscure crowdfunding platform will cost this project a lot of money and cost us a lot of content that won't see the light of day because it won't have been unlocked.

What are the chances of NPC face cards being added as a stretch goal? They were never made for the original AP that I know of, so would be useful in lots of groups. This goes double with the added Companion characters from the Crpg.

Pretty low i guess, as adventure path card sets never sold well, the only face cards sets that sold out were the "Rise of the Runelords" & "Pathfinder Society" sets.

Personally i don't care for face cards (despite having bought them all). We either show the pdf images or hold up the book for players to see the npcs/foes.
I much prefer item & quest cards to put them in a standard transparent 9-card sheet on the table for players to see and handle them.

950 backers & only $1,247 to reach the level 20 expansion! :-)

Pretty low i guess, as adventure path card sets never sold well, the only face cards sets that sold out were the "Rise of the Runelords" & "Pathfinder Society" sets.

Personally i don't care for face cards (despite having bought them all). We either show the pdf images or hold up the book for players to see the npcs/foes.
I much prefer item & quest cards to put them in a standard transparent 9-card sheet on the table for players to see and handle them.

Thanks Marco. I hadn't realized that about the FC sales. I enjoy them because you can keep them clipped to your DM screen while players are talking to the NPC. I'll make my own I guess.

I enjoy the item cards too, but the players seem to lose interest after a few months. Extra things to keep track of, I guess.

I'm pretty dissatisfied they didn't use Kickstarter. The obscure crowdfunding platform will cost this project a lot of money and cost us a lot of content that won't see the light of day because it won't have been unlocked.

I'm curious as to what people think this project would do on Kickstarter.

Looking at Kobold Press, which is well-established and makes high-quality products funded through Kickstarter, Tales of Old Margreve barely cleared $100k and their current one, Empire of Ghouls, is at $84k. Both seem like successful campaigns.

Granted, their monster books pulled in $200k+, but I suspect that monster books are bigger draws than adventures.

Now, Monte Cook Games regularly does half a million dollars or more through Kickstarter. I don't know what their secret is, but they also don't seem to do adventures through the platform.

The Kingmaker computer game almost cleared $1 million on Kickstarter, but we're talking a much larger audience there.

Do those who would prefer Kickstarter think the campaign would do Monte Cook numbers on Kickstarter? Or just that it would have cleared a few more stretch goals by now?

Do those who would prefer Kickstarter think the campaign would do Monte Cook numbers on Kickstarter? Or just that it would have cleared a few more stretch goals by now?

Personally, I don't expect there'd be orders-of-magnitude difference, but certainly non-zero difference.

Privacy
There are going to be people who won't pledge because this isn't on Kickstarter. There are going to be people who wouldn't pledge if it was. I can't imagine there are more of the second type than the first type of person.

Exposure
There are going to be people who regularly check Kickstarter for RPG campaigns because it's the biggest crowdfunding platform. There are going to be people who check GoT because it's focused on games. I can't imagine people who check GoT don't bother to check KS. There's got to be at least some people who won't ever hear about this because it's on a platform they don't check.

I don't know how significant those numbers are. Might be talking about an extra five pledges if this was on Kickstarter, making it irrelevant. Or it might be significant, but double-the-pledges significant. There's no real way to test this.

I am going to restate my assumption that this would've been a million dollar campaign on KS. The 5E Bestiary is a big draw if they advertise it right on KS and headline it a little bit. I am going to say 1.2 million with a 30 day campaign.

To be fair to Paizo, I commend that they are taking these steps to be more out there as far as there products.

Once they get twitch stream back up on the weeklys and paizocon happens I think 2E is going to generate some serious buzz going into Gencon.

They really need to capitalize on the non-hardcore gamers who are part of the new gaming trend just coming into gaming.

I'm curious as to what people think this project would do on Kickstarter.

Looking at Kobold Press, which is well-established and makes high-quality products funded through Kickstarter, Tales of Old Margreve barely cleared $100k and their current one, Empire of Ghouls, is at $84k. Both seem like successful campaigns.

Granted, their monster books pulled in $200k+, but I suspect that monster books are bigger draws than adventures.

Now, Monte Cook Games regularly does half a million dollars or more through Kickstarter. I don't know what their secret is, but they also don't seem to do adventures through the platform.

The Kingmaker computer game almost cleared $1 million on Kickstarter, but we're talking a much larger audience there.

Do those who would prefer Kickstarter think the campaign would do Monte Cook numbers on Kickstarter? Or just that it would have cleared a few more stretch goals by now?

Kickstarter would have gotten more eyes on the product, and more eyes = more buys.

Something to keep in mind is that there are GMs out there that don't come to the boards. I think I GMed 4 different modules before I even glanced at the Paizo website, so there are GMs out there that would love this and may not learn about it in time. And, as I've said before, I think it's a shame that the campaign is only running for 15 days rather than 30 or 45.

Would they be at double their current number? No, I don't think so. But I think they'd be pretty close to it.

One possibility of them not doing it through Kickstarter is that at this point Paizo has dwindled down their output of PF1 stuff and they prefer to be able to shore up finances right away, instead of waiting for whatever it takes for KS to send you the money over after the campaign is finished.

It seems we are taking an Eldest down.

Yep, the campaign has crossed $175k and the campaign is now from level 1 to level 20!

I'm also pretty sure we will reach the $200k goal, as the original Kingmaker map folio was the first one to be sold out and people have been clamoring for a reprint.

In fact, it was one of two or three products that were out of print when i began collecting Pathfinder with the Advanced Players Guide.

Wooo! Level 20!
Now to wait and see if there's a way to pick up how I ended the original AP and run it for a few more levels...

Huh. Unlike Kickstarter, GameOn Tabletop doesn't seem to send you any email or announcement when a project posts an update. Makes the whole thing seem kind of dead...

Personally, I had never heard of Game on Tabletop until this campaign was announced in the Blog post. The element about the campaign on GoT that bothers me is it is only open for 2 weeks? Why not run through at LEAST Paizocon, if not Origins and Gencon?

One possibility of them not doing it through Kickstarter is that at this point Paizo has dwindled down their output of PF1 stuff and they prefer to be able to shore up finances right away, instead of waiting for whatever it takes for KS to send you the money over after the campaign is finished.

If that few weeks delay is really significant (and if Paizo are plundering sales of future product to pay for things now) then things are dire and they aren't handling them well.

I don't see any evidence of that - they're hiring new people, plus they don't strike me as the kind of business which utilises preorder cash to pay current, day-to-day expenses.

What I find strange that the progression and setup of this project will likely result in people having to pay extra to not get the faux leather special edition.

Currently the Ruler level is at $150 and it gets me the screen for free. If I prefer the standard edition, I have to get the Marshal level at $100 and have to play (maybe) $20 for the screen.

Now if more of these "Ruler level free add-ons" are coming, the moment their total cost passes $50, I'll have to pay more for the standard edition than for the special edition, if I want these add-ons.

Does that make sense?

Right now I'm thinking about going from Ruler 'down' to General and adding the Management screen and Poster Map Folio to that.

I don't know what will be added to the Ruler for free after that and I might not care for that. If the Poster Map Folio is cheaper than $33, (which I think likely, as the art is already done, it's a simple reprint, and the Noble Manor Multipack with 4 sides is $20, so the Map Folio with 6 sides should be no more than $30) I'm even saving a bit.

I have some questions about both the Kingdom Management screen and the Flip-Mats, plus a couple about the crowdfunding process in general.

Kingdom Management screen: is this system-neutral? I already have Ultimate Campaign (and am planning on running Kingmaker with PF Classic) - will the screen support those rules, amend them, or be something entirely different? If there is a difference, will there be a conversion guide?

Flip-Mats (both the Noble Manor and the Campsite multi-packs): which previously-published flip-mats are part of these sets, and which parts are new? I have a number of flip-mats, and would be annoyed to find out that there was a lot of duplication between what I already owned and what I just bought.

Crowdfunding: how easy is it to change one's level of support? Add an add-on or remove one? Does this cause any difficulties with regard to one's chosen payment method?

Also: if I move in the time betweeen the end of the crowdfunding campaign and delivery, who should be notified and how easy is it to change my address information?

1,000 Backers has been surpassed!

@Bellona

I can answer one question with 100% certainty:
-The four flip-mat sides in the "Noble Manor multi-pack" will be all new art, that has been said on gameontabletop.
The sample art is only that.

There hasn't been said anything about the campside mats yet.

The Kingdom Management rules don't exist (yet) in D&D & PF 2.0, i am pretty sure they are as setting neutral as possible, if not totally.

Only $14k to the "Map Folio"!

I'm kinda weirded out how companions are spaced out so unevenly that its really unlikely all of them from crpg will be featured .-.

I do wish the Game On Tabletop site made it clear what items are reprints of pre-existing items. And by the way, @Marco Massoudi, thank you for sharing the clarification that the Noble Manor pack is all-new. And the Map Folio (which is now free for Ruler level and above) sounds identical to the one that was originally offered - since it's extremely useful for running the campaign, I'm glad they're including it, even though I already own a copy.

For any further items that are add-on costs (such as the campside maps), I hope they'll clarify that info somewhere by the time the add-ons become available.

One possibility of them not doing it through Kickstarter is that at this point Paizo has dwindled down their output of PF1 stuff and they prefer to be able to shore up finances right away, instead of waiting for whatever it takes for KS to send you the money over after the campaign is finished.

Kickstarter sends you your proceeds (less credit card processing fees and a 5% fee to Kickstarter itself) about 2-3 weeks after the project ends.

What about Game On Tabletop? It seems like the funds go straight to Paizo after processing considering the immediate charge.

That raises the question of whether Game On Tabletop has any process for vetting the gaming companies that use their service?

While in this case I actually trust Paizo more than I trust Game On Tabletop (previously unknown to me), I could see some potential for fraud if an unscrupulous startup gaming company simply decides to vanish after raising a large amount of money through them.

I have some questions about both the Kingdom Management screen and the Flip-Mats, plus a couple about the crowdfunding process in general.

Kingdom Management screen: is this system-neutral? I already have Ultimate Campaign (and am planning on running Kingmaker with PF Classic) - will the screen support those rules, amend them, or be something entirely different? If there is a difference, will there be a conversion guide?

Flip-Mats (both the Noble Manor and the Campsite multi-packs): which previously-published flip-mats are part of these sets, and which parts are new? I have a number of flip-mats, and would be annoyed to find out that there was a lot of duplication between what I already owned and what I just bought.

Crowdfunding: how easy is it to change one's level of support? Add an add-on or remove one? Does this cause any difficulties with regard to one's chosen payment method?

Also: if I move in the time betweeen the end of the crowdfunding campaign and delivery, who should be notified and how easy is it to change my address information?

Hey Bellona,

The Kingdom Management screen will be 2E but shouldn't be any harder to use in 1E as the adventure and bestiary.

All the Flip-Mats in this campaign will have NEW ART (as in never used on a FM or MP before...some might be right from the pages of the adventures though) so no need to worry about duplicating already purchased FMs and MPs.

It's easy to change between pledge levels but if you are going down in levels, then you may need to contact our CS team for a refund.

Address changes should be simple to handle between when the campaign ends and when we ship. There will be complete instructions on Game On and on the Paizo.com FAQ on how to handle this.