Science, Huh? Ain't It a Thing

Thanks, Thurston! That addresses that issue!

I for one am excited for the upcoming Starfinder FAQ.

I for one am excited for the upcoming Starfinder FAQ.

Disclaimer

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

I for one am excited for the upcoming Starfinder FAQ.

Disclaimer

This is by no means us setting ANY expectations for the Starfinder team to get out a new FAQ/Errata in X/Y/Z theoretical time frame. Instead, I mentioned this, just so that people are aware that the Organized Play ruling on pulsecaster rifles is consistent with the thinking process of the Starfinder team and how they intend on seeing this one specific issue more formally FAQ/Errata'd in the future.

Understood, expectations managed :)

So is the same discount going to be provided to ballistic weapons? Or is there no longer going to be game balance between battery powered weapons and ballistics?

So is the same discount going to be provided to ballistic weapons? Or is there no longer going to be game balance between battery powered weapons and ballistics?

Was there ever balance between these two options RAW?

Sid De Squid wrote:

So is the same discount going to be provided to ballistic weapons? Or is there no longer going to be game balance between battery powered weapons and ballistics?

Was there ever balance between these two options RAW?

True, but batteries costed more than bullets but since batteries are free recharge now they're an one time investment though you have to re-buy bullets.

Stabbyface has no problem getsing his bullets backs.

Grabs some tweezers.

So is the same discount going to be provided to ballistic weapons? Or is there no longer going to be game balance between battery powered weapons and ballistics?

Nothing at present. The Organized Play team will be monitoring things, as we always do, to get a sense of if other rules need tweaking.

The focus of this update had nothing to do with addressing any sort of "weapon type parity", but instead to focus on the in-game assumptions of how batteries work in the Starfinder setting. The idea of Starfinders not having a free battery recharge station available, especially when more than just weapons rely on batteries, was something we did not want players to have to deal with the minutiae of tracking. Similarly, the breaking of verisimilitude of the Society having battery charging stations at the Lorespire Complex and on starships that field agents couldn't access.

I'm well aware that this can easily lead down the rabbit hole of "why wouldn't the Society just buy us ammo for missions then?" which is an entirely different discussion, and one I certainly invite people to discuss: specifically, in a new thread in the Starfinder Society forums!

Shaudius wrote:

Sid De Squid wrote:

So is the same discount going to be provided to ballistic weapons? Or is there no longer going to be game balance between battery powered weapons and ballistics?

Was there ever balance between these two options RAW?

True, but batteries costed more than bullets but since batteries are free recharge now they're an one time investment though you have to re-buy bullets.

But that makes sense. The idea of forcing an artificial contruct of balence seems wrong in the case of ballistics and energy weapons. There is a need for ballistic weapons still. Just not balanced to be equally powerful or cost effective.

Thank you--that's exactly the ruling I was hoping for.

Thanks for the clarification and ruling.

Good call.

"So, ah, thank goodness because ah, I was um, thinking I was um, going to need to buy ten um, battery packs and a generator and spend entire missions recharging them. This is ah, so much ah, better!"

And player thanks for saving some of the precious few brain cells remaining!

Did I miss something, or did this blog not discuss transferring charges between dissimilar items (i.e. between a comm and a riffle)?

Though I suppose now that your starship can freely recharge your weapons, that's not something we should be worried about; you could cheaply use a comm as a battery, or quickly slot a real replacement battery during combat.

A sensible solution and cuts down on excessive paperwork too.

Thank you for resolving this issue.

Thank you, Thurston and Team! This was the resolution that I was hoping for. As a GM, I was getting sick of people looting bodies for batteries first, or having whole tables where people avoided energy weapons altogether because they were worried about the battery issue.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Hmm

♫ Do you ever feel like you're out of charge
Drifting through the void
Wanting to start again?

You just gotta ignite the light
And let it shine
Just own the night
Bioluminesce
Show your joy and effervesce
Show em that your battery's full
Make 'em go "Oh, oh, oh!"
As you shoot across the sky-y-y ♫

_____
Source: Katy Perry's Baby, You're a Firework

In 4 SFS scenarios my character has spent 80cr on ammo and averages 42cr per scenario on day job checks. I'm not too worried about ammo costs.

So is the same discount going to be provided to ballistic weapons? Or is there no longer going to be game balance between battery powered weapons and ballistics?

So is the same discount going to be provided to ballistic weapons? Or is there no longer going to be game balance between battery powered weapons and ballistics?

Projectile weapons are usually cheaper and do more damage. And it's easier and cheaper to carry and reload extra ammunition than it is for extra batteries.

Energy weapons are also probably not as good at higher levels when enemies with energy resistance and immunity are more common. Damage reduction isn't as much of an issue in a game where martials don't rely on iterative attacks as much.

Sid De Squid wrote:

So is the same discount going to be provided to ballistic weapons? Or is there no longer going to be game balance between battery powered weapons and ballistics?

Projectile weapons are usually cheaper and do more damage. And it's easier and cheaper to carry and reload extra ammunition than it is for extra batteries.

Not really for heavy weapons at least, which a lot of soldiers or others who like them will prefer. The cost for most of the weapons between the two types is roughly equivalent, finding close comparisons is hard but in cases where you're paying more I feel you're getting more. The initial cost of batteries and the cost of the rounds is mostly the same with recharging definitely being cheaper than buying more rounds even before it was free. The damage differences are small between comparable weapons, particularly considering the 10% or more greater chance of hitting with the energy weapons.

Sid De Squid wrote:

So is the same discount going to be provided to ballistic weapons? Or is there no longer going to be game balance between battery powered weapons and ballistics?

Projectile weapons are usually cheaper and do more damage. And it's easier and cheaper to carry and reload extra ammunition than it is for extra batteries.

Energy weapons are also probably not as good at higher levels when enemies with energy resistance and immunity are more common. Damage reduction isn't as much of an issue in a game where martials don't rely on iterative attacks as much.

On the last bit, why would energy resistance have any more effect than damage resistance? The ways to mitigate DR are mostly outside the scope of SFS play. The way to mitigate ER or flat immunity is that there are a wide variety of different energy types, so you've only got so much of a chance of being affected.

As currently written in the Starfinder Core Rulebook, the pulsecaster rifle comes with a battery that's more expensive than the actual weapon purchase.

{sidetrack}

Welcome to the real world. This just didn't surprise me. If you look at cordless power tools, it's not to difficult to find a battery that costs more than the original bare tool.

Thurston Hillman's Blog wrote:

As currently written in the Starfinder Core Rulebook, the pulsecaster rifle comes with a battery that's more expensive than the actual weapon purchase.

{sidetrack}

Welcome to the real world. This just didn't surprise me. If you look at cordless power tools, it's not to difficult to find a battery that costs more than the original bare tool.

Entirely true! When I explained this situation to my partner, she simply responded: "Oh, so this rifle is like buying a modern printer? You throw it out for the ink."

It certainly makes sense from a real world context, but doesn't fit with the desired game design effect. :)

Sid De Squid wrote:

So is the same discount going to be provided to ballistic weapons? Or is there no longer going to be game balance between battery powered weapons and ballistics?

Nothing at present. The Organized Play team will be monitoring things, as we always do, to get a sense of if other rules need tweaking.

The focus of this update had nothing to do with addressing any sort of "weapon type parity", but instead to focus on the in-game assumptions of how batteries work in the Starfinder setting. The idea of Starfinders not having a free battery recharge station available, especially when more than just weapons rely on batteries, was something we did not want players to have to deal with the minutiae of tracking. Similarly, the breaking of verisimilitude of the Society having battery charging stations at the Lorespire Complex and on starships that field agents couldn't access.

I'm well aware that this can easily lead down the rabbit hole of "why wouldn't the Society just buy us ammo for missions then?" which is an entirely different discussion, and one I certainly invite people to discuss: specifically, in a new thread in the Starfinder Society forums!

I started that discussion thread here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2unf9?Free-Batt-Recharging-Balance-options-for

along with two proposals for balancing ammo restock options with the free battery recharging. Feel free to provide input!

On the last bit, why would energy resistance have any more effect than damage resistance? The ways to mitigate DR are mostly outside the scope of SFS play. The way to mitigate ER or flat immunity is that there are a wide variety of different energy types, so you've only got so much of a chance of being affected.

One of the best answers to tbis at least from a resistance and not immunity standpoint is the holy weapon fusion.

I've been wondering, does the cheapening of repeated use batteries make (energy) automatic weaponry somewhat viable?

If you have time to get to a starship or Lorespire Complex, yes.

The charging of batteries does not include from vehicles..

Since we're talking about Batteries -

How does Weapon Fusions effect them?
Does a battery count as ammo or does it count as something else?

Actually the whole Weapon Fusion needs it's own FAQ thread.

Exactly. Also there have been a number of situations in scenarios that I've seen that can cause people to regret bringing lasers -- smoke, fire resistance, or other weird monster properties.

Just like in Pathfinder, it's a good idea to diversify.

Hmm

Another Subsidy for Energy Industrial Complex while the poor Kinetic enthusiast are left shouldering (and firing) the cost of ammo.

Swiftbrook wrote:

Thurston Hillman's Blog wrote:

As currently written in the Starfinder Core Rulebook, the pulsecaster rifle comes with a battery that's more expensive than the actual weapon purchase.

{sidetrack}

Welcome to the real world. This just didn't surprise me. If you look at cordless power tools, it's not to difficult to find a battery that costs more than the original bare tool.

Entirely true! When I explained this situation to my partner, she simply responded: "Oh, so this rifle is like buying a modern printer? You throw it out for the ink."

It certainly makes sense from a real world context, but doesn't fit with the desired game design effect. :)

Thing is, the new printer comes with a partially filled ink-tank.

People are suckers if they don't fill their own ink/toner.

75 pages a week free printing at the County library.

My home cartridges dry out before I use them up.

People are suckers if they don't fill their own ink/toner.

I need to look into those ink drums, with how many maps I print.

I'm confused. Why is tracking the charge in your battery and buying more charges between sessions "too cumbersome", but tracking the bullets in your clip and buying more between sessions not too cumbersome?

Am I tracking battery charges wrong?

I need to look into those ink drums, with how many maps I print.

Bought an Epson eccotank, basically a printer with those ink drums build in, my printing costs have reduced significantly, I print way too much. This year alone about 3000 normal pages and about 1500 for maps on thicker gauge paper.

I'm confused. Why is tracking the charge in your battery and buying more charges between sessions "too cumbersome", but tracking the bullets in your clip and buying more between sessions not too cumbersome?

Am I tracking battery charges wrong?

If it was just weapons that used batteries, sure.

But are you tracking battery levels for your comm set, computer, flashlight, power armor and jump jets too? That's a level of resource tracking that can seriously slow down play.

I'm confused. Why is tracking the charge in your battery and buying more charges between sessions "too cumbersome", but tracking the bullets in your clip and buying more between sessions not too cumbersome?

The procedure with batteries wasn't so much cumbersome, as inconsistent and open to silly exploits. Bullets are physical objects - you buy them, you fire them, they're gone - and are not transferable between as many different kinds of equipment. They still fit guns of different levels, so they don't act as a scaling consumable cost, but that's a small loss.

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

I need to look into those ink drums, with how many maps I print.

Bought an Epson eccotank, basically a printer with those ink drums build in, my printing costs have reduced significantly, I print way too much. This year alone about 3000 normal pages and about 1500 for maps on thicker gauge paper.

Also started buying laminating sheets in bulk, just got an order of 2000 for a decent discount.

Granted, I may not be able to use your source, but from where and how much?

Did I miss something, or did this blog not discuss transferring charges between dissimilar items (i.e. between a comm and a riffle)?

Exactly, that question practically started this whole discussion. So what about comm unit and its 80 charges battery?

Lau Bannenberg wrote:

Did I miss something, or did this blog not discuss transferring charges between dissimilar items (i.e. between a comm and a riffle)?

Exactly, that question practically started this whole discussion. So what about comm unit and its 80 charges battery?

Well it isn't quite as important now that you can recharge weapon batteries at your ship. If you're worried about running out mid-adventure buying a spare battery/clip is not a problem.

The big difference was "do we need to buy new ones every session" or "buy a backup battery once".

Lau Bannenberg wrote:

Did I miss something, or did this blog not discuss transferring charges between dissimilar items (i.e. between a comm and a riffle)?

Exactly, that question practically started this whole discussion. So what about comm unit and its 80 charges battery?

The blog did not discuss this item. That is more of a general FAQ/Errata question, which this blog was not intended to handle. Instead, the blog focused on some situations unique in Starfinder Society, rather than announcing any errata.

So uh, Energize Spell magic hack just became AWESOME

So uh, Energize Spell magic hack just became AWESOME

You have no idea. Wait until they sanction Alien Archive and people go buying a Diasporan Rifle (pg. 99) that uses a battery that isn't available for sale in AA or the CRB. You're limited to recharging your single 10-charge battery.

Since batteries are interchangeable, here are a list of other items that come with a 10-charge battery that you could buy.

- Brown Force Field (1600cr lvl 3)
- Purple Force Field (4550cr lvl 6)
- Black Force Field (10,500cr lvl 8)
- Beacon (25cr lvl 1)
- Flashlight (1cr lvl 1)
- Lantern (1cr lvl 1)
- Spotlight (25cr lvl 1)

I would expect the rifle to get errata'd to use a 20 charge battery instead, but if AA is sanctioned before this, then these are your RAW options.

Interesting side-point is that two different 1cr items can power three different force fields. I suppose that considering the consumption rate of those batteries, that's probably OK though. Back to your original point though, Energize is absolutely a handy thing!

Just in case there was any ambiguity.

You do not add the sale price of a battery that comes with the purchase of weapon or other piece of equipment when selling that piece of equipment. The only time you can sell a battery for extra credits is when it is called out as a standalone battery that you purchased on its own.

When it comes to weapons/armors and technology items I don't think there was a design intention for these items' batteries to interact. I think there was suppose to be something like military grade batteries (weapons, armors, armor upgrades, etc) and civilian batteries for other devices. I think you will soon see an FAQ expanding types of batteries and/or a more clear separation while some items won't be able to change batteries (most likely the comm unit for example).

Thinking the battery in a comm unit can be swapped into a weapon or other device or sold for a bigger value than the device it from or that the battery that powers a flashlight could also power a weapon or force field is just sort of silly at the low end or plain min/max borderline cheating at the worse; any GM worth their salt will house rule you can't do such things until a clearer FAQ/Printing comes out.

Or, in other words, drawing from Thursty's most recent post, when you go to try and sell the item without a battery the resale shop looks at you for a few moments and then laughs in your face until you put the battery back in the thing you took it out of... unless you have your receipt to show that you bought it separately?

A sort of peripheral question (sorry if it is too far from this thread): my GM take was that when the PCs crafted a rifle with UPBs during some downtime (I am talking SFS game) it came with a charged battery (I would have done the same w. bullets).
The rule I felt applied was the one stating that if you purchase the item it comes w. full clip or charged battery (and the cost in UPBs is linked to the full list price of the item).

Did I miss some rule?