Starfinder Character Themes

Friday, June 9, 2017

In Starfinder, every player character has a theme, which represents a focus for the character beyond those determined by race, class, and skill and feat selections. In many ways a theme is a description of the character's place in society based on what interests them and what kinds of tasks they undertake. While a theme may represent a job or role within a broader culture, it can also be a result of a character's background, upbringing, training, or mystical destiny.

Each theme has a set of benefits when first selected, including a +1 bonus to one specific ability score and a skill-based benefit. Each theme grants additional special benefits that reflect major aspects of that theme at 6th, 12th, and 18th levels. None of the abilities are limited to any specific character class, race, or type of character. Conceptually, themes are designed to give the same kind of specialization that traits and favored class bonuses do in Pathfinder, but are faster and easier to select (no theme has any kind of prerequisite or limitation on who can take it) and rather than many tiny character adjustments, each theme focuses on 4 noteworthy adjustments over a character's career. Think of it as one extra dial you can turn to customize your character, giving the same class and race a dramatically different feel—a vesk soldier with the icon theme might be a celebrity gladiator, while one with the priest theme might be a chaplain of Damoritosh the Conqueror.

Illustration by Pixoloid Studios

There are nine themes in the Starfinder Core Rulebook, with a tenth option—"themeless"—for characters with a specific concept that they don't feel is a good match for any of the currently extant themes. The themes are intentionally kept fairly broad, with the names functioning as descriptive titles rather than hard limitations on what kind of character might take each theme. You can see a little of how themes can help you hone in on a particular character concept in the character build examples presented at the end of each class. Take the outlaw theme, for example: in just those few class build examples, we show you how the same outlaw theme can make an envoy into a fast-talking scoundrel, a mechanic into a saboteur, an operative into either a hacker or a thief, a solarian into a disgraced outcast, a soldier into a freelance sniper, and so on.

The nine themes (and the themeless option) are described briefly below.

Ace Pilot: Thanks to steady hands and nerves of steel, you are skilled at operating starships and other vehicles.

Bounty Hunter: Almost nothing will stop you from tracking down your quarries and returning them dead or alive.

Icon: You are a popular and respected celebrity within the bounds of colonized space.

Mercenary: You are a well-trained soldier of fortune who works well with your companions in battle.

Outlaw: Whether you're guilty or not, somebody wants to see you behind bars—or worse.

Priest: Your unshakable devotion to a philosophy or religion forms the core of your personality.

Scholar: As an academic, you have a broad knowledge base and a thirst to expand it.

Spacefarer: You live your life among the stars, seeking new worlds to explore and yearning for the next adventure.

Xenoseeker: As you travel outside of Pact Worlds space, you strive to make first contact with alien life forms.

Themeless: You don't fit neatly into any of the above categories, or you see yourself as a blank slate.

The abilities gained by each theme at 1st, 6th, 12th, and 18th level are useful and appropriate to the theme, but not so overpowering as to be a mandatory part of any effective character build. Below are examples of a few theme abilities—the 1st level ability gained by themeless characters (general knowledge), and the 6th level ability gained by the xenoseeker (quick pidgin).

General Knowledge (Themeless, 1st): You gain a class skill of your choice when you create a themeless character. You also gain an ability adjustment of +1 to any ability score you choose.

Quick Pidgin (Xenoseeker, 6th): If you don't share a language with creatures you encounter, you and the creatures can spend 10 minutes attempting to converse (if they are willing), after which you attempt a DC 25 Culture check. If you succeed, you formulate a simple pidgin language that allows basic communication. You can use the pidgin language with those specific creatures only, but you gain a +2 bonus to Culture checks to create a pidgin language with similar creatures that speak the same language.

Owen KC Stephens
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I think spacefarer was con and xenoseaker wisdom.

Scarab Sages Developer, Starfinder Team

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pixierose wrote:
Aventhar wrote:

Themes sound cool. I'm curious if Starfinder will also include the concept of archetypes, either out of the gate, or perhaps a later add-on?

Two archetypes have been confirmed, and they are universal(can apply to all classes)

Yep, and they'll get their own blog in the not-too-distant future.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
pixierose wrote:
Aventhar wrote:

Themes sound cool. I'm curious if Starfinder will also include the concept of archetypes, either out of the gate, or perhaps a later add-on?

Two archetypes have been confirmed, and they are universal(can apply to all classes)
Yep, and they'll get their own blog in the not-too-distant future.

Me Gusta - really looking forward to that one


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Fardragon wrote:
I think spacefarer was con and xenoseaker wisdom.

I think Xenoseeker is CHA; after all, it is about making new friends.


Missing theme: Justice Seeker. You seek a fair chance for all, regardless of their origins.


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Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:


Yep, and they'll get their own blog in the not-too-distant future.

Or the REALLY distant future, depending on your point of view. ;)

I do hope to see more of both themes and archetypes, and that numbers of base classes get kept to a minimum - while it's great to have choice, in PF it sometimes feels like there's a bit TOO much overlap, rather than making classes more achetype- and feature-switching friendly, and good modular starting frameworks for the base classes will help that, I would like to think.

The idea of an Icon as the equivalent of a Youtube/Twitch star, giving their fans vlog updates on the road, in between adventures, is flipping awesome - even using in-character campaign write-ups as the "updates"

"What's shockin' your circuits, my people?! This is your favorite Android, Kevarr-3185, checkin' in with another report from the Vast 'Verse, in the Medrani cluster! Saw these INSANE insectoids today, hooked up, shared some Kombucha, exchanged some culture, man these guys were INTENSE! Made my buddy Obozaya look like a Shelyn cultist! I'll be back tomorrow with some stories and a BONUS -- these guys shared some of their MUSIC with me! Anyway, I gotta go finish this firefight! 'Til tomorrow, LOVE TO ALL, you've just been Kevarrated!"


UnArcaneElection wrote:

Missing theme: Justice Seeker. You seek a fair chance for all, regardless of their origins.

Wouldn't that be "priest"? It's an unshakable devotion to a philosophy that forms the core of your personality, after all.


^Maybe . . . but I don't like tying the quest for justice to religion.

Scarab Sages

The priest theme says devotion to a philosophy or religion. Doesn't have to be anything religious about it. You are just devoted to the ideal of justice for all.


It's just the name of the theme. I wouldn't overthink it.

Or if it really bothers you, change it to "advocate."

I like these themes as presented, but I fear that this is not going to be the sole example of this issue cropping up. In fact, its come up a couple of times in this thread: themes, as the blog says, are supposed to fit a broad variety of character concepts. However, the theme names and descriptions aren't quite as broad. People are going to have an idea in mind, and have trouble seeing how a theme might apply because, as described, it doesn't, even if the mechanics fit.

Perhaps this will all be moot once the themes are in front of us in their entirety.


UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Maybe . . . but I don't like tying the quest for justice to religion.

So bounty hunter then...


As I understand it themes are more like jobs/backgrounds. Justice Seeker is more a motivation/role play think in my mind. I can be a bounty hunter and be dedicated to justice for all. Or a priest, or an ace pilot, or an outlaw, or...etc.


The themes do seem to be more about how one goes about things. So rather than "justice seeker", one might have a "vigilante" theme or some such thing.


Yeah, the themes are more job descriptions than character motivations. "Member of an order dedicated to seeking justice", (which reduces to Priest) is the way to go. Or "cop /mega city judge/Batman" which all reduce to Bounty Hunter.

But there are a lot of possibilites not covered, which is where Themeless comes in. It should really be called "Other" though - there would be less confusion that way.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

James Sutter wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
A lot of these have distinctly "outsider" flavor. I was hoping for something that might play into characters who were once a part of the system before being thrown "outside" of it. Would a Bounty Hunter theme work well for an ex-cop?
Yup! We specifically designed it with "cop" as one of the examples, we just figured "Bounty Hunter" sounded a bit more... Mandalorian. :P

But, ... not everyone wants to play Star Wars. (In honor of FreeholdDM)


Lord Fyre wrote:
James Sutter wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
A lot of these have distinctly "outsider" flavor. I was hoping for something that might play into characters who were once a part of the system before being thrown "outside" of it. Would a Bounty Hunter theme work well for an ex-cop?
Yup! We specifically designed it with "cop" as one of the examples, we just figured "Bounty Hunter" sounded a bit more... Mandalorian. :P
But, ... not everyone wants to play Star Wars. (In honor of FreeholdDM)

A lot of the main cast would be envoys.


Hmm, fair points. I was thinking more in terms of World of Darkness "virtues and vices" but they do seem more 5e backgrounds made shinier and more evocative.

Edit: my misstep was partly due to the descriptions. Outlaw, Xenoseeker, and Spacefarer seem like role playing motivations, while the others DO seem like jobs.

I stand by my guess that these will make more sense once they're out in front of us.


Rhedyn wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Maybe . . . but I don't like tying the quest for justice to religion.

So bounty hunter then...

Not really -- for instance, assuming that the Bounty Hunter bonus stays on Strength, that doesn't reflect most lawyers and civil rights activists; and while lawyers and especially civil rights activists certainly have priests among their numbers, some of their numbers (especially lawyers) are most definitely not priests, and a decent subset of these do not have any philosophy of faith equivalent to religion.


UnArcaneElection wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Maybe . . . but I don't like tying the quest for justice to religion.

So bounty hunter then...

Not really -- for instance, assuming that the Bounty Hunter bonus stays on Strength, that doesn't reflect most lawyers and civil rights activists; and while lawyers and especially civil rights activists certainly have priests among their numbers, some of their numbers (especially lawyers) are most definitely not priests, and a decent subset of these do not have any philosophy of faith equivalent to religion.

Priest, Bounty Hunter, Scholar, Spacefarer and even Xenoseeker work for the character you suggested but since your not being specific and there are so many ways to inturpert "justice seeker" (are you judge dred? Batman? Phoniex Wright?) Its hard to pin down


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Shrimply Pibbles is likely an Icon.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
AnimatedPaper wrote:
Edit: my misstep was partly due to the descriptions. Outlaw, Xenoseeker, and Spacefarer seem like role playing motivations, while the others DO seem like jobs.
The last sentence of the first paragraph of the article does say right there that...
Starfinder Character Themes by Owen KC Stephens wrote:
While a theme may represent a job or role within a broader culture, it can also be a result of a character's background, upbringing, training, or mystical destiny.

Liberty's Edge

Steven "Troll" O'Neal wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
James Sutter wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
A lot of these have distinctly "outsider" flavor. I was hoping for something that might play into characters who were once a part of the system before being thrown "outside" of it. Would a Bounty Hunter theme work well for an ex-cop?
Yup! We specifically designed it with "cop" as one of the examples, we just figured "Bounty Hunter" sounded a bit more... Mandalorian. :P
But, ... not everyone wants to play Star Wars. (In honor of FreeholdDM)
A lot of the main cast would be envoys.

Luke: human mechanic (drone companion) with the Ace Pilot theme and the phrenic adept archetype

Han: human daredevil operative with Outlaw theme
Obi Wan: old human solarian with Bounty Hunter theme and phrenic adept archetype
Chewbacca: wookiee bombard soldier with the Outlaw theme
Leia: human envoy with the Icon theme

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Steven "Troll" O'Neal wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
James Sutter wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
A lot of these have distinctly "outsider" flavor. I was hoping for something that might play into characters who were once a part of the system before being thrown "outside" of it. Would a Bounty Hunter theme work well for an ex-cop?
Yup! We specifically designed it with "cop" as one of the examples, we just figured "Bounty Hunter" sounded a bit more... Mandalorian. :P
But, ... not everyone wants to play Star Wars. (In honor of FreeholdDM)
A lot of the main cast would be envoys.

I'm not sure about that.

I might go with ...

  • Malcom Reynolds - Human Soldier Themeless (creating a "Captain" theme)
  • Zoë Washburne (Alleyne) - Human Soldier Spacefarer theme (she grew up in space)
  • Hoban Washburne - Human Operative Ace Pilot theme
  • Kaywinnet Lee "Kaylee" Frye - Human Mechanic Themeless (Her background is kind of unique.) - but her skills don't quite line up with the Mechanic class from Starfinder.
  • Jayne Cobb - Human Soldier Mercenary
  • Inara Serra - Human Envoy Icon
  • Shepard Derrial Book - Human Operative Priest (Best way I can think of to represent this complicated character)
  • Doctor Simon Tam - Human Operative(?) Outlaw - Not sure how to do a medical doctor in Starfinder
  • River Tam - Human Operative Phrenic Adept Outlaw


lakobie wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Maybe . . . but I don't like tying the quest for justice to religion.

So bounty hunter then...

Not really -- for instance, assuming that the Bounty Hunter bonus stays on Strength, that doesn't reflect most lawyers and civil rights activists; and while lawyers and especially civil rights activists certainly have priests among their numbers, some of their numbers (especially lawyers) are most definitely not priests, and a decent subset of these do not have any philosophy of faith equivalent to religion.

Priest, Bounty Hunter, Scholar, Spacefarer and even Xenoseeker work for the character you suggested but since your not being specific and there are so many ways to inturpert "justice seeker" (are you judge dred? Batman? Phoniex Wright?) Its hard to pin down

To avoid narrowing the concept, I was purposely trying to avoid being too specific, but if you want a specific example, how about a fresh-out-of-college non-religious equal rights/voting rights activist, who has taken on the lofty ideal and dangerous occupation of making sure that everybody gets the right to vote, even if they are of an ethnic group that is locally discriminated against (for instance, in some backwater dumps that use dirty tricks to keep Androids effectively disenfranchised both economically and politically, despite this being illegal in the Pact Worlds)?


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Looking over the different themes again, it appears to me themes are less a representation of your career or background - which can be any number of infinite things - but more a representation of who your friends are, or what you've grown to rely on. In each of these themes, a sphere of society is accounted for.

High Society: politicians, celebrities, capitalists - rely on influence, fame, and wealth to move the world around them. Domain of the Icon.

Local Enforcement: cops, hitmen, PIs - rely on experience and their keen instinct, and a disturbing empathy for the criminal mind. Domain of the Bounty Hunter.

Military: soldiers, mercenaries, tacticians - rely on their training, a disciplined body and mind, and their comrades in arms, who they would risk their lives for, and expect the same from. Domain of the Mercenary.

Criminal Underworld: smugglers, runaways, mobsters - rely on their own wit, carefully chosen friends, a deep understanding of society's conventions and how to exploit them, and a good, old-fashioned belief in self-interest as a behavior that ties the world together. Domain of the Outlaw.

Church: oracles, priests, monks - rely on their church, philosophy, or profound connection with their god. Domain of the Priest.

Academic: scientists, professors, curators - rely on their enhanced intellect (well beyond that of their peers) and wide range of knowledge. Domain of the Scholar.

Foreign Relations: diplomats, missionaries, anthropologists - rely on their excellent ability to communicate, empathize, improvise, and learn. Domain of the Xenoseeker.

Frontier: explorers, rangers, nomads - rely on a honed body, keen survival instincts, adaptability, and union with nature. Domain of the Spacefarer.

Sky: pilots, streetracers, flight testers - rely on their intuitive familiarity with physics, an ascendant connection to the heavens, and excellent health and senses to survive in a wide variety of life-threatening situations. Domain of the Ace Pilot.

The last one was a bit contrived, although I think it's an excellent indication of the logic behind themeless. Ace Pilot is a very specific profession, and seems an odd fit when there is no place for much more common backgrounds like a merchant or entertainer. And yet, excellent skill development and ability scores can account for nearly all the flavor one would need for these latter two professions, or most professions in general. A merchant doesn't really need a special ability to represent their expertise in trade and persuasion - diplomacy is already a fairly nuanced skill. While the same might be said of piloting - in a sci-fi setting, this role typically takes on much more importance. As do each of the other themes described here, which require a level of training and transformation beyond that of most professions and backgrounds. So it would make sense for people who ascend in their social or environmental spheres in such fashions to be equally transformed. These themes are a good indication of what some of the more common exotic backgrounds in Starfinder's universe will be.

While a merchant's profession can potentially be just as nuanced as a pilot's, the perks of some professions can't be expressed as well with skills and ability scores alone, and require more thematic decoration to fully express their abilities. For example, haggling is a pretty process for a merchant's diplomacy skill, but where in the cosmos could you find a mechanic for forming a pidgin in a standard rule system? Themeless represents a conventional background, offering an edge to the adventurer practiced in common professions, but who are not any less equally able than their mercenary or ace pilot adventuring peers.


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Opsylum wrote:
Criminal Underworld: smugglers, runaways, mobsters - rely on their own wit, carefully chosen friends, a deep understanding of society's conventions and how to exploit them, and a good, old-fashioned belief in self-interest as a behavior that ties the world together. Domain of the Outlaw.

Frankly these sound a LOT more interesting than the ones in the blog post. I especially like Outlaw; I might not want to play a character that has a price on their head, but won't turn down playing someone working the fringe of society.

Ace pilot is kind of the awkward child of the bunch, isn't it? But I don't disagree with your guesses. Hopefully we'll see more on these sooner than later. I'm curious what an Ace Pilot Mystic or Envoy might look like. Edit: And it occurs to me that an Ace Pilot Mystic would be Anakin Skywalker.

UnArcaneElection wrote:

To avoid narrowing the concept, I was purposely trying to avoid being too specific, but if you want a specific example, how about a fresh-out-of-college non-religious equal rights/voting rights activist, who has taken on the lofty ideal and dangerous occupation of making sure that everybody gets the right to vote, even if they are of an ethnic group that is locally discriminated against (for instance, in some backwater dumps that use dirty tricks to keep Androids effectively disenfranchised both economically and politically, despite this being illegal in the Pact Worlds)?

Outlaw possibly, then. Robin Hood was an outlaw, after all.

Shisumo wrote:
Obi Wan: old human solarian with Bounty Hunter theme and phrenic adept archetype

Hmm, bounty hunter in 1-3, but by 4 he had retrained to priest I would think.

Assuming retraining is still a thing,


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UnArcaneElection wrote:
lakobie wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Maybe . . . but I don't like tying the quest for justice to religion.

So bounty hunter then...

Not really -- for instance, assuming that the Bounty Hunter bonus stays on Strength, that doesn't reflect most lawyers and civil rights activists; and while lawyers and especially civil rights activists certainly have priests among their numbers, some of their numbers (especially lawyers) are most definitely not priests, and a decent subset of these do not have any philosophy of faith equivalent to religion.

Priest, Bounty Hunter, Scholar, Spacefarer and even Xenoseeker work for the character you suggested but since your not being specific and there are so many ways to inturpert "justice seeker" (are you judge dred? Batman? Phoniex Wright?) Its hard to pin down

To avoid narrowing the concept, I was purposely trying to avoid being too specific, but if you want a specific example, how about a fresh-out-of-college non-religious equal rights/voting rights activist, who has taken on the lofty ideal and dangerous occupation of making sure that everybody gets the right to vote, even if they are of an ethnic group that is locally discriminated against (for instance, in some backwater dumps that use dirty tricks to keep Androids effectively disenfranchised both economically and politically, despite this being illegal in the Pact Worlds)?

I'd say an Envoy with the Scholar theme.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
ENHenry wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:


Yep, and they'll get their own blog in the not-too-distant future.

Or the REALLY distant future, depending on your point of view. ;)

I do hope to see more of both themes and archetypes, and that numbers of base classes get kept to a minimum - while it's great to have choice, in PF it sometimes feels like there's a bit TOO much overlap, rather than making classes more achetype- and feature-switching friendly, and good modular starting frameworks for the base classes will help that, I would like to think.

The idea of an Icon as the equivalent of a Youtube/Twitch star, giving their fans vlog updates on the road, in between adventures, is flipping awesome - even using in-character campaign write-ups as the "updates"

"What's shockin' your circuits, my people?! This is your favorite Android, Kevarr-3185, checkin' in with another report from the Vast 'Verse, in the Medrani cluster! Saw these INSANE insectoids today, hooked up, shared some Kombucha, exchanged some culture, man these guys were INTENSE! Made my buddy Obozaya look like a Shelyn cultist! I'll be back tomorrow with some stories and a BONUS -- these guys shared some of their MUSIC with me! Anyway, I gotta go finish this firefight! 'Til tomorrow, LOVE TO ALL, you've just been Kevarrated!" [/QUOTE

I was thinking more along the lines of a soldier livestreaming his fights

Silver Crusade

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*taps chin*

Since this is the future and stuff, are we gonna see any Adventurers/Groups funded by the Starfinder equivalent of Patreon?

Scarab Sages

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Biztak wrote:
ENHenry wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:


Yep, and they'll get their own blog in the not-too-distant future.

Or the REALLY distant future, depending on your point of view. ;)

I do hope to see more of both themes and archetypes, and that numbers of base classes get kept to a minimum - while it's great to have choice, in PF it sometimes feels like there's a bit TOO much overlap, rather than making classes more achetype- and feature-switching friendly, and good modular starting frameworks for the base classes will help that, I would like to think.

The idea of an Icon as the equivalent of a Youtube/Twitch star, giving their fans vlog updates on the road, in between adventures, is flipping awesome - even using in-character campaign write-ups as the "updates"

"What's shockin' your circuits, my people?! This is your favorite Android, Kevarr-3185, checkin' in with another report from the Vast 'Verse, in the Medrani cluster! Saw these INSANE insectoids today, hooked up, shared some Kombucha, exchanged some culture, man these guys were INTENSE! Made my buddy Obozaya look like a Shelyn cultist! I'll be back tomorrow with some stories and a BONUS -- these guys shared some of their MUSIC with me! Anyway, I gotta go finish this firefight! 'Til tomorrow, LOVE TO ALL, you've just been Kevarrated!"

I was thinking more along the lines of a soldier livestreaming his fights

I love it. And for an example of an Envoy with the Icon Theme: Ruby Rhod.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Not to mention, I assume these are simply names given to a collection of stats. In others words, that you take the Outlaw theme does not maketh you an outlaw.

AnimatedPaper wrote:
Opsylum wrote:
Criminal Underworld: smugglers, runaways, mobsters - rely on their own wit, carefully chosen friends, a deep understanding of society's conventions and how to exploit them, and a good, old-fashioned belief in self-interest as a behavior that ties the world together. Domain of the Outlaw.

Frankly these sound a LOT more interesting than the ones in the blog post. I especially like Outlaw; I might not want to play a character that has a price on their head, but won't turn down playing someone working the fringe of society.

Ace pilot is kind of the awkward child of the bunch, isn't it? But I don't disagree with your guesses. Hopefully we'll see more on these sooner than later. I'm curious what an Ace Pilot Mystic or Envoy might look like. Edit: And it occurs to me that an Ace Pilot Mystic would be Anakin Skywalker.

UnArcaneElection wrote:

To avoid narrowing the concept, I was purposely trying to avoid being too specific, but if you want a specific example, how about a fresh-out-of-college non-religious equal rights/voting rights activist, who has taken on the lofty ideal and dangerous occupation of making sure that everybody gets the right to vote, even if they are of an ethnic group that is locally discriminated against (for instance, in some backwater dumps that use dirty tricks to keep Androids effectively disenfranchised both economically and politically, despite this being illegal in the Pact Worlds)?

Outlaw possibly, then. Robin Hood was an outlaw, after all.

Shisumo wrote:
Obi Wan: old human solarian with Bounty Hunter theme and phrenic adept archetype

Hmm, bounty hunter in 1-3, but by 4 he had retrained to priest I would think.

Assuming retraining is still a thing,


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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Elorebaen wrote:

Not to mention, I assume these are simply names given to a collection of stats. In others words, that you take the Outlaw theme does not maketh you an outlaw.

AnimatedPaper wrote:
Opsylum wrote:
Criminal Underworld: smugglers, runaways, mobsters - rely on their own wit, carefully chosen friends, a deep understanding of society's conventions and how to exploit them, and a good, old-fashioned belief in self-interest as a behavior that ties the world together. Domain of the Outlaw.

Frankly these sound a LOT more interesting than the ones in the blog post. I especially like Outlaw; I might not want to play a character that has a price on their head, but won't turn down playing someone working the fringe of society.

Ace pilot is kind of the awkward child of the bunch, isn't it? But I don't disagree with your guesses. Hopefully we'll see more on these sooner than later. I'm curious what an Ace Pilot Mystic or Envoy might look like. Edit: And it occurs to me that an Ace Pilot Mystic would be Anakin Skywalker.

UnArcaneElection wrote:

To avoid narrowing the concept, I was purposely trying to avoid being too specific, but if you want a specific example, how about a fresh-out-of-college non-religious equal rights/voting rights activist, who has taken on the lofty ideal and dangerous occupation of making sure that everybody gets the right to vote, even if they are of an ethnic group that is locally discriminated against (for instance, in some backwater dumps that use dirty tricks to keep Androids effectively disenfranchised both economically and politically, despite this being illegal in the Pact Worlds)?

Outlaw possibly, then. Robin Hood was an outlaw, after all.

Shisumo wrote:
Obi Wan: old human solarian with Bounty Hunter theme and phrenic adept archetype

Hmm, bounty hunter in 1-3, but by 4 he had retrained to priest I would think.

Assuming retraining is still a thing,

Owen's PaizoCon game of the Emerald Star Spire had a pre-gen character like this that was a mechanic with the Icon theme. It proved to be a lot of fun for everyone at the table as we theorized on the character's background and how his livestreaming audience was rating his performance, as well as the rest of us.

Scarab Sages Developer, Starfinder Team

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UnArcaneElection wrote:
Missing theme:

I assume there are a bunch of missing themes, and I hope we'll be able to expand the list as the game matures. :)


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
Missing theme:
I assume there are a bunch of missing themes, and I hope we'll be able to expand the list as the game matures. :)

Is one of the missing themes "missing" an amnesiac or lost person background? so we are missing the theme missing theme?

More seriously, do you see themes as a common approach to custimization on the future as Archetypes have been in Pathfinder? Or are the choose X Talent/Trick/Specialization abilities of the classes designed in such a way that the class ability lists could be grown over time?

Scarab Sages Developer, Starfinder Team

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Torbyne wrote:
More seriously, do you see themes as a common approach to custimization on the future as Archetypes have been in Pathfinder? Or are the choose X Talent/Trick/Specialization abilities of the classes designed in such a way that the class ability lists could be grown over time?

We tried very hard to have an internally consistent idea of what a theme is, what a class is (and therefore what a class feature is), and what an archetype is.

I expect we'll expand all of those as the game matures. More themes allows for new high-concept options for characters, and may be tailored to be fairly broad while calling out an iconic example. If we did a Game Warden, we might well tie it to Castrovel, but that doesn't mean it couldn't also work for a Veskarium Poacher, or Free Caption Exotic Animal Smuggler.

Class features would continue to be things that make the most sense only for a specific class. For example, we can easily add new mythic connections as we explore more different ways to be a mystic. We'd be less likely to offer an alternate power that replaces mind link for the mystic, since that's a core part of that class concept (but even so if a good enough idea came along for a mystic who has a different kind of connective power, I could see us doing it).

All the classes have some kind of selectable customization, be that a single choice that is carried out throughout the class (such as mystic connections, operative specializations, soldier fighting styles, and the mechanics choice or exocortex or drone), and others that are discrete choices made periodically (such as the envoy's improvisations and expertise talents, m,echan ic tricks, operative exploits, solarian stellar revelations, soldier gear boosts, or technomancer magic hacks). Those are things that it easy for us to expand on where we have a good idea tied specifically to one class.

If something feels like a class feature, but is something we expect anyone should be able to do, or at least several different class concepts seem to support it, that's more likely to be a new feat (though we'll be keeping a stern eye on feat chains and feat prerequisites--we don't want to keep adding new options that require 4 or 5 previous options be taken, even if we accept that sometimes having 1 or 2 prerequisites just makes sense).

And if a concept feels like it's more than a theme but less than a class, and appears to be a separate line of training nearly anyone could access, we can build an appropriate archetype for it.

We tried to map these things out so we knew in advance where the most easily expandable places in the game are, so we don't have to shoehorn in a mechanic if we come up with a great idea later down the line.


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Once again, can i just say it is awesome how active all of the development team is on the forums? Thank you!


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
More seriously, do you see themes as a common approach to custimization on the future as Archetypes have been in Pathfinder? Or are the choose X Talent/Trick/Specialization abilities of the classes designed in such a way that the class ability lists could be grown over time?

We tried very hard to have an internally consistent idea of what a theme is, what a class is (and therefore what a class feature is), and what an archetype is.

I expect we'll expand all of those as the game matures. More themes allows for new high-concept options for characters, and may be tailored to be fairly broad while calling out an iconic example. If we did a Game Warden, we might well tie it to Castrovel, but that doesn't mean it couldn't also work for a Veskarium Poacher, or Free Caption Exotic Animal Smuggler.

Class features would continue to be things that make the most sense only for a specific class. For example, we can easily add new mythic connections as we explore more different ways to be a mystic. We'd be less likely to offer an alternate power that replaces mind link for the mystic, since that's a core part of that class concept (but even so if a good enough idea came along for a mystic who has a different kind of connective power, I could see us doing it).

All the classes have some kind of selectable customization, be that a single choice that is carried out throughout the class (such as mystic connections, operative specializations, soldier fighting styles, and the mechanics choice or exocortex or drone), and others that are discrete choices made periodically (such as the envoy's improvisations and expertise talents, m,echan ic tricks, operative exploits, solarian stellar revelations, soldier gear boosts, or technomancer magic hacks). Those are things that it easy for us to expand on where we have a good idea tied specifically to one class.

If something feels like a class feature, but is something we expect anyone should be able to do, or at least several different class concepts...

It sounds like the team has put a lot of thought into how different PC systems interact with each other.

Designer

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Ventnor wrote:
It sounds like the team has put a lot of thought into how different PC systems interact with each other.

Owen's point on the separation of features is critical to avoid a situation where you wind up somewhere down the line with, to use themes as an example, some theme that isn't really a high-concept option but instead gives outsized benefits to, say, mystics (based on its concept, the priest theme could have been at risk of doing this but doesn't do so, in my opinion), and then if you don't pick that theme with mystic, you're a significantly worse mystic than the people who do, thus creating a perception of restricted options for themes. By using Owen's separations, themes can be themes and you can pick the theme you want based on your picture of the character in your head without worrying about whether it's a "bad" choice for your character class/race/etc. This is because the theme literally makes you good at being the theme, so for instance, if you want to be an icon, the icon makes you better at that, and there's not really a situation where you would be mechanically incentivized to take the icon theme for its powers even though you thought being a spacefarer would be cooler. If all that makes sense?


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THANK YOU.


AnimatedPaper wrote:

{. . .}

UnArcaneElection wrote:

To avoid narrowing the concept, I was purposely trying to avoid being too specific, but if you want a specific example, how about a fresh-out-of-college non-religious equal rights/voting rights activist, who has taken on the lofty ideal and dangerous occupation of making sure that everybody gets the right to vote, even if they are of an ethnic group that is locally discriminated against (for instance, in some backwater dumps that use dirty tricks to keep Androids effectively disenfranchised both economically and politically, despite this being illegal in the Pact Worlds)?

Outlaw possibly, then. Robin Hood was an outlaw, after all.

{. . .}

Maybe . . . but that leads to the odd situation in which some people trying to do what I am saying are acting perfectly within the law (even though they aren't cops), but still putting their lives on the line against entrenched interests who would rather redefine the law to be what is to their benefit, even if they can't get their concept onto the books (or their concept is written in the books, but was overturned by the courts).


Well done Paizians!!

This is a better approach to traits (PFRPG) and Background (D&D 5the).
I would love to houserule all this 3 character concept ideas into my campaign.

Can´t wait for this book to rise!!


Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
It sounds like the team has put a lot of thought into how different PC systems interact with each other.
Owen's point on the separation of features is critical to avoid a situation where you wind up somewhere down the line with, to use themes as an example, some theme that isn't really a high-concept option but instead gives outsized benefits to, say, mystics (based on its concept, the priest theme could have been at risk of doing this but doesn't do so, in my opinion), and then if you don't pick that theme with mystic, you're a significantly worse mystic than the people who do, thus creating a perception of restricted options for themes. By using Owen's separations, themes can be themes and you can pick the theme you want based on your picture of the character in your head without worrying about whether it's a "bad" choice for your character class/race/etc. This is because the theme literally makes you good at being the theme, so for instance, if you want to be an icon, the icon makes you better at that, and there's not really a situation where you would be mechanically incentivized to take the icon theme for its powers even though you thought being a spacefarer would be cooler. If all that makes sense?

I'm curious to see how this will all pan out with freelancers and 3rd party down the line. Will there be some sort of guidance put out on how to maintain these separations? All in all, it seems like a great idea so far, though.

Designer

Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
It sounds like the team has put a lot of thought into how different PC systems interact with each other.
Owen's point on the separation of features is critical to avoid a situation where you wind up somewhere down the line with, to use themes as an example, some theme that isn't really a high-concept option but instead gives outsized benefits to, say, mystics (based on its concept, the priest theme could have been at risk of doing this but doesn't do so, in my opinion), and then if you don't pick that theme with mystic, you're a significantly worse mystic than the people who do, thus creating a perception of restricted options for themes. By using Owen's separations, themes can be themes and you can pick the theme you want based on your picture of the character in your head without worrying about whether it's a "bad" choice for your character class/race/etc. This is because the theme literally makes you good at being the theme, so for instance, if you want to be an icon, the icon makes you better at that, and there's not really a situation where you would be mechanically incentivized to take the icon theme for its powers even though you thought being a spacefarer would be cooler. If all that makes sense?
I'm curious to see how this will all pan out with freelancers and 3rd party down the line. Will there be some sort of guidance put out on how to maintain these separations? All in all, it seems like a great idea so far, though.

We have a stronger in-house design guide for the separations than ever existed in PF's 1st days so it should be less common, and as always, everyone will do their best to avoid them, but I'm sure there will eventually be a theme (or other feature) that violates these guideline somewhere down the line; it's inevitable in a mature enough game system with enough options in enough books. If you see a new feature that's causing your group issues (say a theme that's diverting away player choice from other themes), that's going to be something you want to come to a group consensus to drop from your game, and hopefully if it's pressuring players into feeling like they're letting the team down to pick the theme they want, it'll be something players and GM alike can agree to drop together.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
It sounds like the team has put a lot of thought into how different PC systems interact with each other.
Owen's point on the separation of features is critical to avoid a situation where you wind up somewhere down the line with, to use themes as an example, some theme that isn't really a high-concept option but instead gives outsized benefits to, say, mystics (based on its concept, the priest theme could have been at risk of doing this but doesn't do so, in my opinion), and then if you don't pick that theme with mystic, you're a significantly worse mystic than the people who do, thus creating a perception of restricted options for themes. By using Owen's separations, themes can be themes and you can pick the theme you want based on your picture of the character in your head without worrying about whether it's a "bad" choice for your character class/race/etc. This is because the theme literally makes you good at being the theme, so for instance, if you want to be an icon, the icon makes you better at that, and there's not really a situation where you would be mechanically incentivized to take the icon theme for its powers even though you thought being a spacefarer would be cooler. If all that makes sense?
I'm curious to see how this will all pan out with freelancers and 3rd party down the line. Will there be some sort of guidance put out on how to maintain these separations? All in all, it seems like a great idea so far, though.
We have a stronger in-house design guide for the separations than ever existed in PF's 1st days so it should be less common, and as always, everyone will do their best to avoid them, but I'm sure there will eventually be a theme (or other feature) that violates these guideline somewhere down the line; it's inevitable in a mature enough game system with enough options in enough books. If you see a new feature that's causing your group issues (say a theme that's diverting away player choice...

... So. That "1" key is pretty far away from the "f" key on most english keyboards. Is that a term used at Paizo to refer to Pathfinder? If so that sort of raises questions as to why you need to differentiate it from anything else with the PF initials.

Designer

Torbyne wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
It sounds like the team has put a lot of thought into how different PC systems interact with each other.
Owen's point on the separation of features is critical to avoid a situation where you wind up somewhere down the line with, to use themes as an example, some theme that isn't really a high-concept option but instead gives outsized benefits to, say, mystics (based on its concept, the priest theme could have been at risk of doing this but doesn't do so, in my opinion), and then if you don't pick that theme with mystic, you're a significantly worse mystic than the people who do, thus creating a perception of restricted options for themes. By using Owen's separations, themes can be themes and you can pick the theme you want based on your picture of the character in your head without worrying about whether it's a "bad" choice for your character class/race/etc. This is because the theme literally makes you good at being the theme, so for instance, if you want to be an icon, the icon makes you better at that, and there's not really a situation where you would be mechanically incentivized to take the icon theme for its powers even though you thought being a spacefarer would be cooler. If all that makes sense?
I'm curious to see how this will all pan out with freelancers and 3rd party down the line. Will there be some sort of guidance put out on how to maintain these separations? All in all, it seems like a great idea so far, though.
We have a stronger in-house design guide for the separations than ever existed in PF's 1st days so it should be less common, and as always, everyone will do their best to avoid them, but I'm sure there will eventually be a theme (or other feature) that violates these guideline somewhere down the line; it's inevitable in a mature enough game system with enough options in enough books. If you see a new feature that's causing your group issues (say a theme that's
...

It's a Pathfinder vs Starfinder thing. Sorry! I tend to call Pathfinder PF and Starfinder SF (and other weirder abbreviations throughout the process).


Mark Seifter wrote:
It's a Pathfinder vs Starfinder thing. Sorry! I tend to call Pathfinder PF and Starfinder SF (and other weirder abbreviations).

No worries, i think using PF as short hand for Pathfinder is pretty common and easy enough to pick up from context, i was curious if that part was to make it stand out from Stafinder as in PF1/SF2 or if it differentiates pathfinder product lines in house somehow.

Designer

Torbyne wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
It's a Pathfinder vs Starfinder thing. Sorry! I tend to call Pathfinder PF and Starfinder SF (and other weirder abbreviations).
No worries, i think using PF as short hand for Pathfinder is pretty common and easy enough to pick up from context, i was curious if the PF1 part was to make it stand out from Stafinder as in PF1/SF2 or if it differentiates pathfinder product lines in house somehow.

Yeah, we have a lot of weird PZO numbers on products (which I barely understand and am shocked that some teams got right John's question about them two years ago in the trivia contest) that has different numbers for the Core line (starting at PZO1110) than other lines, and other abbreviations. There was definitely a PFA1/SFB2 time for me for a little while when I was having trouble keeping them straight pingponging across the two systems. I should probably abbreviate less when it just makes things confusing.

Designer

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Torbyne wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
Missing theme:
I assume there are a bunch of missing themes, and I hope we'll be able to expand the list as the game matures. :)

Is one of the missing themes "missing" an amnesiac or lost person background? so we are missing the theme missing theme?

More seriously, do you see themes as a common approach to custimization on the future as Archetypes have been in Pathfinder? Or are the choose X Talent/Trick/Specialization abilities of the classes designed in such a way that the class ability lists could be grown over time?

Weirdly, one of my favorite playtester theme usage was a technomancer envoy who joined the party in a weird unexpected place and ran with that for her backstory: she was a famous techie a la Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg who vanished suddenly like Amelia Earhart, and the PCs found her and were like "Whoah, we just found IconChar!" So she managed to use icon to handle "missing" but it probably won't work in many cases.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
Missing theme:
I assume there are a bunch of missing themes, and I hope we'll be able to expand the list as the game matures. :)

Is one of the missing themes "missing" an amnesiac or lost person background? so we are missing the theme missing theme?

More seriously, do you see themes as a common approach to custimization on the future as Archetypes have been in Pathfinder? Or are the choose X Talent/Trick/Specialization abilities of the classes designed in such a way that the class ability lists could be grown over time?

Weirdly, one of my favorite playtester theme usage was a technomancer envoy who joined the party in a weird unexpected place and ran with that for her backstory: she was a famous techie a la Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg who vanished suddenly like Amelia Earhart, and the PCs found her and were like "Whoah, we just found IconChar!" So she managed to use icon to handle "missing" but it probably won't work in many cases.

That is actually a fun way to handle the scenario. It makes me wonder about icons in general though, would an icon have trouble disguising themselves as someone else or get a bonus from having to do it more often than someone who isnt an icon? it might not be a good thing to be well known for who you are in every situation...

Designer

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Torbyne wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
Missing theme:
I assume there are a bunch of missing themes, and I hope we'll be able to expand the list as the game matures. :)

Is one of the missing themes "missing" an amnesiac or lost person background? so we are missing the theme missing theme?

More seriously, do you see themes as a common approach to custimization on the future as Archetypes have been in Pathfinder? Or are the choose X Talent/Trick/Specialization abilities of the classes designed in such a way that the class ability lists could be grown over time?

Weirdly, one of my favorite playtester theme usage was a technomancer envoy who joined the party in a weird unexpected place and ran with that for her backstory: she was a famous techie a la Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg who vanished suddenly like Amelia Earhart, and the PCs found her and were like "Whoah, we just found IconChar!" So she managed to use icon to handle "missing" but it probably won't work in many cases.
That is actually a fun way to handle the scenario. It makes me wonder about icons in general though, would an icon have trouble disguising themselves as someone else or get a bonus from having to do it more often than someone who isnt an icon? it might not be a good thing to be well known for who you are in every situation...

Being an icon means you want to be recognized (as the player, anyway, I imagine the character might not fully embrace their celebrity depending on the concept), at least when you're not in disguise. It's definitely going to get harder and harder to walk around in no disguise and just pass as a normal Jane if you're an icon, but on the other hand, the power of celebrity can be very helpful when you're providing a distraction for your teammates. Icons literally have a power that makes the equivalent of the Knowledge (local) DC to have heard of you decrease as you advance as an icon, providing a concrete way for the GM to figure out if NPCs have heard of you or not.

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