New Starfinder Interview!

But most assuredly not iSeph, right?

*ducks*

It's neat to have an iconic that's taken the idea of gender and thrown it into the rubbish bin completely as an antiquated biological function of hoo-mans and not androids.

Eh. I think it would be more interesting if they were just indifferent to it (as it is irrelevant), rather than rejecting the evil/foolish masters trope. As is, Androids rejecting gender makes as much sense as rejecting tails. It just doesn't apply, so why would they care at all?

Though as usual for Paizo, there isn't any 'show not tell' aspect of this. Every 'representative' character involves the blogger just telling the audience that they represent 'blank' because nothing in the art or text actually conveys it.

That flavor about the Android isn't being inclusive, its actually being exclusive. Its implying if you want to be gendered don't be this race, and if you want to be androgynous you have to be this race (maybe they'll throw in another intentionally androgynous race). My supported plan of dropping all mention of identity politics is actually more inclusive because it allows any person to make any race without restriction. Rather than throwing a token race their way.

"{...}they also strive to distinguish themselves culturally from their former oppressors. One way in which some androids – like Iseph – do so is through the rejection of gender, which they see as an unnecessary mark of their former bondage." -James Sutter. You see, it says SOME of them. If you guys would actually bother to read the article, you would realize that being agender is not the defining characteristic of of all or even quite possibly most androids. Really it makes a good deal of sense for androids being a race that is more likely to be agender, because any parts they may or may not have would be (for actually productive purposes) purely for show, as androids are built anyway. That being said, it still makes sense for androids to identify as one gender or the other, they do still have the parts and quite possibly the desire to use them. Really saying it is short sighted to say their is only one right way to play a member of a race and any other way of playing it is wrong. Besides it is rather silly to get worked up over one iconic. Saying all androids are agender because of one iconic is like saying all worshipers of Iomedae are black females because the only iconic worshipers her. Just because one person is X doesn't mean that is representative of the whole group, but I shouldn't have to tell anyone that. In short you are free to play female androids, agendered ratfolk and pansexual lashunta if you want, after all it is your character, you should be able to play it how you want.

If we're going to comment on appearances, may I suggest the fact that they appear to have a mohawk - mullet? Party in the front. Party in the back.

Mullethawk!

Though as usual for Paizo, there isn't any 'show not tell' aspect of this. Every 'representative' character involves the blogger just telling the audience that they represent 'blank' because nothing in the art or text actually conveys it.

So.... you're saying that Iseph does not look agender to you.

blink

Um, k.

Yeah it's kind of hard to tell if the character is agender by the way they look. Androgynous looking characters (and real life people) usually get read as male because male is seen as the default.

And yeah, nothing in the lore stopping you from playing a gendered android, it's just that they are more likely to be agender than other races and some of the official NPCs will be agender.

Yeah it's kind of hard to tell if the character is agender by the way they look. Androgynous looking characters (and real life people) usually get read as male because male is seen as the default.

And yeah, nothing in the lore stopping you from playing a gendered android, it's just that they are more likely to be agender than other races and some of the official NPCs will be agender.

It just seems that the moment humanity discovers a new species their first instinct is, "can I reproduce with it?" If not, the following instinct is "how do I kill it?" Note: See Star Trek for examples.

Archmage Variel wrote:

IonutRO wrote:

There's nothing wrong with being inclusive, but constantly drawing attention to a the fact that you are being inclusive makes it feel forced and no longer genuine. It's like the old "look at how not-racist I am!" routine.

Please don't complain about people being included. There is literally nothing wrong with medium including a group that is not often represented in a medium. You don't have to play an agendered android. Please don't start a sentence with there's nothing wrong with [blank] but... I like to think about it as the "Not [Blank] Rule". The rule is simple, if you say I'm not a racist but, or in this case there's nothing wrong with being inclusive but, the thing that follows will likely be offensive to a minority group. Including a minority is not the same thing as marginalizing a minority. Again, if someone's genitalia, or in this case complete biological lack or genitalia, bothers you in any way, DON'T THINK ABOUT IT. It's simply not necessary.

You may notice I wasn't criticising inclusiveness, but rather Paizo.

My point was that Paizo's inclusiveness feels like marketing. People who are really inclusive don't have to draw attention to the fact that they're inclusive, they just are.

As soon as this character's introduced, the first thing we're told about them is that they're agender, their rejection of gender is thrust to the foreground as their defining character trait, they're suddenly not just agender, they're "the agender one". That's not inclusiveness, that's tokenism.

You don't include people by being vague and letting them wonder if they belong, or make them drag it out of you. You include them by telling them they belong, that their presence is appreciated, that they have a place.

When you're told over and over you don't belong, you learn to assume you aren't welcome unless people go out of their way to bring you in.

That flavor about the Android isn't being inclusive, its actually being exclusive. Its implying if you want to be gendered don't be this race, and if you want to be androgynous you have to be this race (maybe they'll throw in another intentionally androgynous race). My supported plan of dropping all mention of identity politics is actually more inclusive because it allows any person to make any race without restriction. Rather than throwing a token race their way.

I disagree, not all androids are agender, and non-androids can be agender just well and good, nothing's stopping them .

My opinion is coming from someone that doesn't really have a horse in this race about gender. Rather, I see this as more of a cultural, anthropologic thing. So, take what I say with a grain of salt.

When a group of people are freed from the bonds of servitude and oppression, there is this sort of a crossroads that many people of that ethnicity face. Many remain under the culture that ruled over them because that is really all they know. Others of that ethnicity reject their ruling culture and attempt to reclaim their original culture and beliefs. And of that, some can't reconnect with their ethnicity's original culture, so they may drift to something different, or even make a new culture for themselves. None of this is bad or wrong. It just is. You can see it throughout history. I can tell you, as someone that grew up in two worlds, one American and one Latino, it can be a bit hard to find your cultural identity, especially when you are young. Sometimes, you don't truly feel like a part of either culture.

So, looking at the androids and their history, you can see this happening. As Malefactor rightfully point out, it's not all androids that reject their humanity. Rather, it's a group that has decided to reject what is considered a part of their master race to find their own cultural identity. To me, it makes sense that a cybernetic entity would reject cultural norms that are related to an organic biology as a way of freeing themselves even further. I imagine aside from gender, many would eschew humanoid forms for more inhuman, robot chassis. To me, that makes sense from a cultural standpoint. Perhaps they could have added an excerpt about them rejecting different parts of humanity rather than focusing on gender, but at the same time, sex is a huge biological component that is representative of organic creatures and not so much automatons. And also, this was a quick interview so there isn't going to be that great deal of depth into android culture. Best to wait.

And I imagine there are groups that stick closer to their human forms because that is what they are comfortable with. You're going to see all types and all kinds for androids. But from reading the excerpt, I don't see anything that states that "if you want to be agender, then you HAVE to play an android." It's important to read the excerpt in its entirety before inferring anything from it.

*sigh* I figured there would have to be at least one rude person that would crawl out of their hole to complain about an agender iconic.

Inclusiveness has been one of Pazio's claims to famee, I'm pleased at the continuation of the trend.

I do love that it doesn't feel like a blatant insertion for inclusions sake (which isn't bad but can be ackward). The background and feel for the Android be agender really flows out from the background and structure. I really like that while Paizo supports inclusiveness, they generally don't just plop it down, it really works with the known info/story/lore.

Paizo's inclusiveness is appropriate... as is it's talking about that inclusiveness.

Everyone has a right to offend.
Everyone has a right to be offended.
Move on to something useful please.

This art is momentarily interesting. This writing is creative. It's still not a preferred genre for me, not why I transferred my loyalty and purchasing power from 3.5, and I will not purchase it. If PFS tries to force it on me like the season of the technology feat tax, I will avoid those scenarios.

Yes, I know, I am a grognard - such is my right. I'm really hoping Paizo gets back to the basics. More dungeons. More men and women with swords, magic, torches and pitchforks forcibly taking other peoples stuff. Faster PFS sanctioning. Perfectly edited product. Better playtesting begets less retro-nerf.

Want to expand? Expand into the depths of the oceans.

But I am not in the correct venue for these thoughts. Saying more might offend someone. I really don't care about your sensibilities, but I am going to move onto something more constructive.

Everyone has a right to offend.

Everyone has a right to be offended.
Move on to something useful please.

This art is momentarily interesting. This writing is creative. It's still not a preferred genre for me, not why I transferred my loyalty and purchasing power from 3.5, and I will not purchase it. If PFS tries to force it on me like the season of the technology feat tax, I will avoid those scenarios.

Yes, I know, I am a grognard - such is my right. I'm really hoping Paizo gets back to the basics. More dungeons. More men and women with swords, magic, torches and pitchforks forcibly taking other peoples stuff. Faster PFS sanctioning. Perfectly edited product. Better playtesting begets less retro-nerf.

Want to expand? Expand into the depths of the oceans.

But I am not in the correct venue for these thoughts. Saying more might offend someone. I really don't care about your sensibilities, but I am going to move onto something more constructive.

Starfinder is an entirely different game. It shouldn't affect Pathfinder at all, so there is no need to be concerned. As for offending people, I doubt that anyone here will take offence that you are not interested in something the rest of us are excited about. No one is saying you must like this, nor do we expect that you must; different strokes for different folks, after all.

andygal wrote:

*sigh* I figured there would have to be at least one rude person that would crawl out of their hole to complain about an agender iconic.

Inclusiveness has been one of Pazio's claims to famee, I'm pleased at the continuation of the trend.

I do love that it doesn't feel like a blatant insertion for inclusions sake (which isn't bad but can be awkward). The background and feel for the Android be agender really flows out from the background and structure. I really like that while Paizo supports inclusiveness, they generally don't just plop it down, it really works with the known info/story/lore.

Indeed. I am also glad at how smooth they made the insertion of something that can be somewhat contentious, by making it fit smoothly into their world. All too often, when a company has an issue that they would like to present their opinion on, they do it with the grace and subtlety of an 18-wheeler crashing into your face. For example, while most people can agree that cutting down all the rainforests would be, well bad, something like Ferngully which forges an anvil the size of Pluto, carves the phrase "FOREST GOOD; POLLUTION BAD M'KAY?" and drops it directly in your lap. It gets to the point that you are so sick of it that you are starting to root for the villain (and that is only half because of Tim Curry's buttery voice).

But as I said, Paizo isn't most companies. They can show minorities without it feeling like tokenism or just going down a corporate check list. That is because they actually care.

There are many reasons that I chose to emphasize Iseph's rejection of gender here:

*Because the reporter and I had been discussing the issue of diversity and inclusion in Starfinder.

*Because I agree with a previous poster that when society has traditionally told X group they're not welcome, it's not enough to just crack the door and *imply* that they could be welcome. You need to kick that thing down and shout out your invitation.

*Because I think that it's actually a really interesting aspect of android culture. They were traditionally built to look gendered (because as we've seen throughout history, humans are pretty much incapable of having a technological revolution without bringing sex into it somehow), but have no actual biological aspect to it. And it's a definite, recognizable tie to their past. To me, given all that, it would be much weirder if none of them questioned it! And just as I'm curious to read about those who reject gender, I'm also really curious to read the reasons of the androids who feel connected to it. Gender has traditionally been a huge building block of culture, and that remains true here.

*Because it is *absolutely* marketing. I want everyone in the gaming world to know where Paizo and Starfinder stand on issues around inclusivity. And let me just say that I *adore* the idea that being inclusive is a cash grab--that it's hip to be inclusive. Allow me to explain:

Many years ago, while I was still figuring out my own sexuality, Wes Schneider took me to my first pride parade in Seattle, in Seattle's traditionally gay district. Years later, after the parade had moved downtown and filled with corporate floats as businesses fell all over themselves to show their support, we laughed together about the mainstreaming of the parade. Not because we were bitter, but because we were thrilled—because it meant we were winning. Corporate America was starting to recognize that it was in their best interests to listen to the LGBTQ+ demographic. And in our society, money makes change better than any political movement.

Of course, it's not all wine and roses. There's always a backlash, and Starfinder will be no different. There will be people who grow tired of Paizo "pushing" these values. Who see invitations to minority groups as pandering. All I can say to that is that we'd love to have everyone involved, but do what you've gotta do.

So can you play an android who identifies as a given gender in Starfinder? Absolutely, and there will be plenty of examples to give you inspiration. But not this one. Because if even one person looks at Iseph and feels welcomed, or reads Iseph's future adventures and starts to think differently about gender, then I consider that a win.

There is nothing that I don't absolutely love and appreciate about this post. I can't tell you how much.

I love the decision, I love the idea, I love James' post. By happenstance, I was reading the interview today and also listening to some podcasts including one that had Wes talking about inclusivity in gaming. I'm glad Paizo is doing all of this and I'm glad it includes characters like these in a way that doesn't say "look at me, look at me" but presents it factually and then let's people draw their own conclusions.

Paizo's products are top notch and I love playing them. But the fact that Paizo is explicitly making an effort to be inclusive and thoughtful in the design of its campaign setting means a lot to me and is one of the things that makes me so loyal.

You guys/gals/people rock. Thank you.

PS, take my money. My table wants to start Starfinder now.

Not to sound "troll-ish" but the more I play FFG's SW games, the more excited I get about the SF game. Will be nice to get away from Star Wars and do something different. I hope I can convince my group to join me but it's highly unlikely as they are big time SW people.

I truly hope this game gets into some of the "Science" of Science Fiction and we get to do exciting things like explore new or lost worlds, investigate new viruses or alien diseases, plot a new interstellar space route or do other exciting things which take "space"- and all of it's beauty and wonder- into consideration. To me, Space makes science fiction and it just seems like RPG's anymore just completely miss that point- space is just something that exists in the background when it is so really interesting and very cool. I do hope they get this right- I can see an excellent SciFi RPG striking a good balance between blaster fires and space ships along with scientific endeavours as well.

Again, all apologies, I didn't mean to troll, just voicing my opinion.

I agree with Currahee. I'd like there to be a little more of a focus on the 'Star' part of Starfinder. More to do with science and robots and space ships. Things that really define the genre of sci fi, space opera, etc. I feel if it's just going to be Pathfinder with the veneer of sci fi, then I personally won't be interested. Numanera is an example of a fantasy game that just uses the veneer of sci fi for few unique things, but ultimately, it's just a fantasy game.

This is quite simply the best gaming community in existence.

Thank you all for flagging posts and bringing this thread to the attention of forum moderators. While there are some problematic attitudes towards inclusivity exhibited earlier in this thread, I think that the follow up comments, especially James', have redeemed the direction this conversation was headed. I've been going back and forth on removing some of the inital comments belittling inclusivity, but ultimately I think its important that the responses remain as an example of what the community and Paizo's standards are on this subject.

Nice work Sara Marie - I think the conversation as a whole is a good example of a debate worth having.

But not this one. Because if even one person looks at Iseph and feels welcomed, or reads Iseph's future adventures and starts to think differently about gender, then I consider that a win.

It makes me think of two Hollywood stories - both pretty much the same. How Whoopi Goldberg ended up in Star Trek and Sam Jackson ended up in Star Wars. As kids they saw Uhura and Lando (respectively) and saw people like them in the future. So when that franchise came back they HAD to be part of it.

That is why I like seeing this kind of stuff. It needs to be there. But when inserted badly (I have seen that done) it loses some of it's edge. But having it flow the story.. it makes it feel natural. That is part of what I was getting at but didn't really articulate well. If someone who needs a example of someone like themselves in a game/TV Show etc.. and it's obviously a "Token X" that has to be there just because - it loses some of it's impact. But having it grow naturally from the story - it has a stronger impact. Uhura would likely not been as effective if the entire rest of the bridge crew were all WASPs. But we had someone Asian, an alien, a Russian... The mix was there, and she was just another person, an officer, on the bridge. It makes all that much more impact.

Thank you all for flagging posts and bringing this thread to the attention of forum moderators. While there are some problematic attitudes towards inclusivity exhibited earlier in this thread, I think that the follow up comments, especially James', have redeemed the direction this conversation was headed. I've been going back and forth on removing some of the inital comments belittling inclusivity, but ultimately I think its important that the responses remain as an example of what the community and Paizo's standards are on this subject.

I think this was the right move for the sake of education, understanding, tolerance, and civilized discourse on what has traditionally been a controversial issue. Thank you. To add something more constructive, I feel the need to share. I normally do not share my opinions and beliefs on public forums, but I think I should do so here.

I am a white, middle-aged, father of two grown boys. Their mother is Korean. I have been exposed to and experienced a lot in my time and faced some surprising moments of prejudice you might not expect for a white guy to have experienced in my lifetime. But, seeing what my boys have gone through growing up as half-Asian children has really opened my eyes to the fact that things are worse out there for minorities than what most any white person seems to be willing or capable of believing. It has quite often left me with a broken heart learning how they get treated when I am not around. That is something they will have to face the rest of their lives and I cannot protect them from it. I also have gay friends. Some of whom I never knew were gay until after knowing them for quite some time first. Learning about their struggles was also quite an eye opener. When it comes to things you have not experienced for yourself first-hand, you quite simply do not know what you do not know. As a white, heterosexual male, I can never completely understand the discrimination, intolerance, and lack of understanding and compassion that they go through every moment of every day of their lives - not even my sons; not ever - no matter how much I want to.

So, when I see things like how the Hulk is now a Korean American kid, there is now an Asian-American Spider-Woman and that two heroic characters of the new Star Wars movie are Asian and then see how much my kid's eyes light up when talking about those characters because they can finally identify more with their favorite fictional universes - grown though my kids may be - I can't help but feel as if a great hurt is starting to mend in my boys; even if just a little bit. It's not enough, but if you have ever had kids that have been hurt, you know the feeling I'm talking about. That is why when I see Starfinder with Asian and agendered iconics (even if she does fall into the dyed-hair-Asian-punk-girl stereotype), I can REALLY get behind the company that is "pushing" the inclusive message in their product. So, I say, "Keep up the good work!" Also, I will subscribe and buy every one of those Starfinder books, whether I play or not.

Lots of stuff.

http://giphy.com/gifs/reactiongifs-xnvXXXbNxjxok

James Sutter wrote:

Lots of stuff.

IonutRO's reaction

FIFY

Im waiting on baited breath to see how they handle starship combat as that always seems to be a hurdle for Sci Fi RPGs. I also believe that if they do any lines of miniatures those will be a HUGE hit.

I've also been thinking about a line of miniatures. I don't know if demand would justify multiple series as they do with traditional combat, but I would definitely buy pre-painted plastic minis for ship-to-ship combat. Been looking online the last two days and have had trouble finding anything I liked (i.e., not obviously bound to an existing setting such as Star Wars or BSG) and within my budget.

Anyway, I was listening to a podcast by someone who was able to play test the space combat. This is probably available elsewhere on the forums (or refuted elsewhere), but he said there was no NDA. It was a play test and things could change but what I recall is:
- ships have a movement speed and must move a certain number of spaces before turning one point on the hex
- there are three phases of combat: engineering, movement and gunnery. Each phase is resolved simultaneously. Initiative's role is to determine who has to declare their actions first. You want to declare last so you have the benefit of responding to the other ship's declared actions.
- the three phases help give every PC a role
- roles on the ship are independent of your class abilities, apparently linked to a skill.
- you can pull off special maneuvers but the DCs for these are so high they can only be achieved by the crew working together and giving bonuses to the PC who makes the tough roll. This is by design to encourage crews to communicate and work together (like a real crew)

Take all of that with a grain of salt.

IonutRO wrote:

James Sutter wrote:

Lots of stuff.

IonutRO's reaction

FIFY

Why didn't I think of that?

I've also been thinking about a line of miniatures. I don't know if demand would justify multiple series as they do with traditional combat, but I would definitely buy pre-painted plastic minis for ship-to-ship combat. Been looking online the last two days and have had trouble finding anything I liked (i.e., not obviously bound to an existing setting such as Star Wars or BSG) and within my budget.

Anyway, I was listening to a podcast by someone who was able to play test the space combat. This is probably available elsewhere on the forums (or refuted elsewhere), but he said there was no NDA. It was a play test and things could change but what I recall is:
- ships have a movement speed and must move a certain number of spaces before turning one point on the hex
- there are three phases of combat: engineering, movement and gunnery. Each phase is resolved simultaneously. Initiative's role is to determine who has to declare their actions first. You want to declare last so you have the benefit of responding to the other ship's declared actions.
- the three phases help give every PC a role
- roles on the ship are independent of your class abilities, apparently linked to a skill.
- you can pull off special maneuvers but the DCs for these are so high they can only be achieved by the crew working together and giving bonuses to the PC who makes the tough roll. This is by design to encourage crews to communicate and work together (like a real crew)

Take all of that with a grain of salt.

For the ships, unless Paizo announce something, I'm looking into those so far.

Firestorm Armada

There is also some of these but not sure about the scale Dropzone

Of course both come unpainted.

I've also been thinking about a line of miniatures. I don't know if demand would justify multiple series as they do with traditional combat,

Yes, I certainly agree. Still, I'd be pretty stoked with a set a year.

And thank you for the detailed explanation of the Ship combat rules. It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out. Sounds very similar to my all time favorite Sci Fi RPG- Star Frontiers and their Knight Hawks starship rules. I have also been playing FFG's Edge of the Empire game and, while I may be critical of the game overall, I do think they nailed ship combat beautifully. It works really well when done correctly.

SnowHeart wrote:

I've also been thinking about a line of miniatures. I don't know if demand would justify multiple series as they do with traditional combat, but I would definitely buy pre-painted plastic minis for ship-to-ship combat. Been looking online the last two days and have had trouble finding anything I liked (i.e., not obviously bound to an existing setting such as Star Wars or BSG) and within my budget.

Anyway, I was listening to a podcast by someone who was able to play test the space combat. This is probably available elsewhere on the forums (or refuted elsewhere), but he said there was no NDA. It was a play test and things could change but what I recall is:
- ships have a movement speed and must move a certain number of spaces before turning one point on the hex
- there are three phases of combat: engineering, movement and gunnery. Each phase is resolved simultaneously. Initiative's role is to determine who has to declare their actions first. You want to declare last so you have the benefit of responding to the other ship's declared actions.
- the three phases help give every PC a role
- roles on the ship are independent of your class abilities, apparently linked to a skill.
- you can pull off special maneuvers but the DCs for these are so high they can only be achieved by the crew working together and giving bonuses to the PC who makes the tough roll. This is by design to encourage crews to communicate and work together (like a real crew)

Take all of that with a grain of salt.

For the ships, unless Paizo announce something, I'm looking into those so far.

Firestorm Armada

There is also some of these but not sure about the scale Dropzone

Of course both come unpainted.

As someone that collects and wishes he could play it...

Firestorm Armada has some great models that are fairly affordable. There are many ships there that would make excellent models for the players.

For ship combat, I understand that this is a RPG and not meant to be a table top wargame, so I'm okay with something a bit more simple, but with some meat on the bones. I actually think something a little simpler than Firestorm Armada would actually be nice. The game itself isn't very complicated and would be a good way to satisfy the more crunchier crowd. Still, having some more cinematic rules would be nice. Maybe the cinematic rules for smaller engagements, while large, setpiece naval battles could have the crunchier stuff.

I just wish I could find more people that played Firestorm Armada :(

I tried Firestorm Armada in its early days. It showed some promised, but we were 2 newbies trying to figure out the rules by ourselves. I understand with the 2.0 version, it's even better, but I never got the chance to try it.

I have three boxes worth of Firestorm Ryushi that I haven't had the chance to play with yet, you better believe I will be putting down that super carrier every chance I have in Starfinder.

I tried Firestorm Armada in its early days. It showed some promised, but we were 2 newbies trying to figure out the rules by ourselves. I understand with the 2.0 version, it's even better, but I never got the chance to try it.

Luckily they have the rules for free on their website. But man, their ships would be awesome to use in Starfinder, or really any sci fi game out there

andygal wrote:

Yeah it's kind of hard to tell if the character is agender by the way they look. Androgynous looking characters (and real life people) usually get read as male because male is seen as the default.

And yeah, nothing in the lore stopping you from playing a gendered android, it's just that they are more likely to be agender than other races and some of the official NPCs will be agender.

It just seems that the moment humanity discovers a new species their first instinct is, "can I reproduce with it?" If not, the following instinct is "how do I kill it?" Note: See Star Trek for examples.

Sometimes, even "can I reproduce with it?" falls by the wayside, with people only asking "can I f*** it?"

In rare cases, the ability to reproduce is aversive, and infertility is preferable... Mainly in cases where child support is a thing. Because really, nobody wants their casual sex to result in 18 years of wage slavery.

... As for "how do I kill it?", that's often slightly behind the question of "how likely is it to try and kill me?", since we rarely kill dogs. Which makes for a more accurate question of "if it tries to kill me, how do I kill it first?"

Clearly I'm overthinking this though.

Slightly more civilized = "Does it have anything I want?" and "Can I trade something for it?"

If you dont mind a little cutting and gluing, the paper models of the wormhole game system are pretty awesome - these can be found on the Worldworks Game site.

Slightly more civilized = "Does it have anything I want?" and "Can I trade something for it?"

More like "can I take this without any negative consequences to myself?" Then "can I trade something for it?"

"How much can I exploit this resource/people with minimal sacrifice, work, and consequences?"

Will d20pfsrd have the same deal with posting things for Starfinder as they do with Pathfinder?

"How much can I exploit this resource/people with minimal sacrifice, work, and consequences?"

We're slowly reaching a point where a classical psychologist would be asking "what part of you is asking these questions".

People would probably ask themselves these kinds of questions to themselves, but rarely do we act on them. Often we have competing instincts between what a classical psychologist would call the "Id, Ego, and Superego"; or the self-preservation/self-serving instinct, the rational/pragmatic instinct, and the moral instinct.

So keep in mind, for each of these questions, there's also a part of them likely asking of anything that's not an apparent threat: "How can I help?"

Uh... guys? I am not saying this is not a worthy discussion or anything, but we are rather off topic in terms of what the thread is supposed to be about. Perhaps we could take it to a new thread?

Uh... guys? I am not saying this is not a worthy discussion or anything, but we are rather off topic in terms of what the thread is supposed to be about. Perhaps we could take it to a new thread?

Sound good... so what's the thread is supposed to be about?

Paizo inclusiveness?
What type of rifle Iseph has?
What spaceship mini to use?
Iterraction between two species meeting for the first time?

This post is meant to be somewhat funny, but at the same time I don't know what the real topic is since all those seem to be good conversation to have.

It's a place for us to express our feelings about the upcoming Starfinder launch.

Less than three hundred sleeps to go!

Malefactor wrote:

Uh... guys? I am not saying this is not a worthy discussion or anything, but we are rather off topic in terms of what the thread is supposed to be about. Perhaps we could take it to a new thread?

Sound good... so what's the thread is supposed to be about?

Paizo inclusiveness?
What type of rifle Iseph has?
What spaceship mini to use?
Iterraction between two species meeting for the first time?

This post is meant to be somewhat funny, but at the same time I don't know what the real topic is since all those seem to be good conversation to have.

Ideally, this is where we'd be overanalysing every word and phrase used in the interviews, and scrutinizing whether or not the fact they could have said something but didn't, or focused on one aspect over another, is at all "Telling".

Granted, that already happens in other threads. To sum up one instance I used; I pondered if the exact wording preceding the pathfinder conversion info emphasising them being different systems over being different (temporal) settings suggests that the classic classes being present in that time is canon.

Not in those exact words of course, and with some degree of doubt.

As for Paizo inclusiveness, from the way they phrase it it strikes me as a largely PR move; a company inviting diversity has a minimal effect on the actual diversity of the community. The two major ways people get into the game are either because a friend invited them to play, or they were already interested and joined a random group. Thus its more important to make sure its a game people will be interested in and will recommend to their friends than it is to appeal to demographics at all.

That said, having options is typically a great draw for an RPG. People don't nessacarily play characters they identify with, and often times they play absurd characters just because the system lets them. Having more options to play around with when it comes to what's plausible or acceptable to play within a setting leads to more varied role-play.

So I think its a good decision, but I figure the reasons they're claiming it are mostly a bluff roll.

The thing that popped into my head, when I read androids as agenders, was swap-able genders. Imagine either a booth or a shop that androids go to to swap pieces. Or maybe they have swap-able parts at home, maybe even alien versions for that special lovin.

Malefactor wrote:

Uh... guys? I am not saying this is not a worthy discussion or anything, but we are rather off topic in terms of what the thread is supposed to be about. Perhaps we could take it to a new thread?

Sound good... so what's the thread is supposed to be about?

Paizo inclusiveness?
What type of rifle Iseph has?
What spaceship mini to use?
Interactions between two species meeting for the first time?

This post is meant to be somewhat funny, but at the same time I don't know what the real topic is since all those seem to be good conversation to have.

I was just saying that whatever the topic we are supposed to be on, figuring out the different ways to say "I want things and I don't want things to adversely affect me" probably isn't it.

Edit: As I said before, I have no problems with any of the subjects that we have been talking about, it is just that I think (for all that is worth) once we get to the point that we are talking about all the different ways you can say two connected phrases we are kind of off topic. Err, unless that is what the thread is about; then you are extremely on topic.

One thing that I'm excited about is the artwork. So far, we've seen Verces, Eox, Akiton, and Liavara. I'm excited for artwork depicting Aucturn, probably more than anything else.