ryric RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 |
I'm concerned if they drop the bonus skill points from Int - that would make it the default dump stat for any class that doesn't focus on it, and my space fantasy desires don't really feature a party of idiots running around.
Every stat should do something (besides affect skill bonuses) on its own, otherwise the ones that don't become default dump stats. See Charisma in Pathfinder, or Int in 4e.
Angry Ghost |
Now I am curious, are they still going to stick with 6 stats? Will they perhaps dump some stats just so there are no dump stats? What would INT be good for then? Perhaps just something to add to the stat, I would imagine that there will be a lot more skills. Will the skills be broad to encompass a large variety, or will there be very specific skills.
Like instead of Lockpicking/ slight of hand?
Would you have Lock Picking: Mechanical Lock
Lock Picking: Digital Lock
Lock Picking: Biometric Lock
And piloting and driving to.
Because a jet, helicopter and car all operate differently.
Archmage Variel |
I'm concerned if they drop the bonus skill points from Int - that would make it the default dump stat for any class that doesn't focus on it, and my space fantasy desires don't really feature a party of idiots running around.
Every stat should do something (besides affect skill bonuses) on its own, otherwise the ones that don't become default dump stats. See Charisma in Pathfinder, or Int in 4e.
What I think may end up happening, and what I hope will happen, is that stats won't effect things like number of skill points or hit points or saves, but will still affect skills. So while a class may have a prefered ability it needs, the rest of the allocation for one's ability score is dependent of the skills one wishes to use. That way you can play a somewhat charismatic mechanic or a fairly strong technomancer without sacrificing playability.
Lemartes |
I'm concerned if they drop the bonus skill points from Int - that would make it the default dump stat for any class that doesn't focus on it, and my space fantasy desires don't really feature a party of idiots running around.
Every stat should do something (besides affect skill bonuses) on its own, otherwise the ones that don't become default dump stats. See Charisma in Pathfinder, or Int in 4e.
I didn't see the part in the quote about int effecting skill points.
Not sure how I feel about that. I can see it either way...if it doesn't effect skill points then make int more attractive some other way.
Anyways, I suppose if we still have int effect skill points but you get like 8 or so min then I can play an idiot and still have some skills and not 1 per level.
Not that I want to play a bunch of idiots but you know once in a while. :)
Angry Ghost |
So the class is the culmination of the learned experience.
The INT Stat is the basic ability to process book learning
The WIS stat is the basic ability to Process Judgement and out come based off of experience then?
That's interesting to see it put that way, I can definitely understand that, in that an individual could be highly skilled and still be of average INT, while in Pathfinder/ D&D all of the rouges have pretty much been rocket scientists.
Archmage Variel |
ryric wrote:I'm concerned if they drop the bonus skill points from Int - that would make it the default dump stat for any class that doesn't focus on it, and my space fantasy desires don't really feature a party of idiots running around.
Every stat should do something (besides affect skill bonuses) on its own, otherwise the ones that don't become default dump stats. See Charisma in Pathfinder, or Int in 4e.
I didn't see the part in the quote about int effecting skill points.
Not sure how I feel about that. I can see it either way...if it doesn't effect skill points then make int more attractive some other way.
Anyways, I suppose if we still have int effect skill points but you get like 8 or so min then I can play an idiot and still have some skills and not 1 per level.
Not that I want to play a bunch of idiots but you know once in a while. :)
It was mentioned in an older podcast.
Cthulhusquatch |
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In the past I would have probably not been a fan of LGBTQ+ diversity in the game.. and would have probably made comments about it seeming forced.
But I am not like I was even 5 years ago.. and as of now a mostly out LGBTQ+ myself. Not to mention that despite being former far right, I am now an LGBTQ+ Safe Zone on my campus.
So yeah.. all I can say is I like this android.
ryric RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 |
What I think may end up happening, and what I hope will happen, is that stats won't effect things like number of skill points or hit points or saves, but will still affect skills. So while a class may have a prefered ability it needs, the rest of the allocation for one's ability score is dependent of the skills one wishes to use. That way you can play a somewhat charismatic mechanic or a fairly strong technomancer without sacrificing playability.
If stats only affect skills, there's basically no point in even having them. I'd much prefer every ability score do something important than have none of them do so.
Edit: One way they could go, that I'd be fine with - and also seems consistent with the info we have so far - is to make class-based skill points only like 1-2 per level, but then give bonus skill points for every ability score, but those points have to be used for skills based off that score. So a 14 Str would give you 2 points for Str based skills, and a 16 Wis would give 3 for Wis based skills. This means they would have to come up with some Con based skills, and I'm not sure how penalties would work in this system(i.e. 8 Str).
Lemartes |
Archmage Variel wrote:What I think may end up happening, and what I hope will happen, is that stats won't effect things like number of skill points or hit points or saves, but will still affect skills. So while a class may have a prefered ability it needs, the rest of the allocation for one's ability score is dependent of the skills one wishes to use. That way you can play a somewhat charismatic mechanic or a fairly strong technomancer without sacrificing playability.If stats only affect skills, there's basically no point in even having them. I'd much prefer every ability score do something important than have none of them do so.
Edit: One way they could go, that I'd be fine with - and also seems consistent with the info we have so far - is to make class-based skill points only like 1-2 per level, but then give bonus skill points for every ability score, but those points have to be used for skills based off that score. So a 14 Str would give you 2 points for Str based skills, and a 16 Wis would give 3 for Wis based skills. This means they would have to come up with some Con based skills, and I'm not sure how penalties would work in this system(i.e. 8 Str).
That idea I like. Because physically talented people tend to learn physical skills easily as mentally talented people learn mental skills.
ie: George St. Pierre could learn to do a back flip easier than say an age equivalent Sam Harris. While Sam would have an easier time with learning how to diagnose a new type of mental illness.
Archmage Variel |
ryric wrote:Archmage Variel wrote:What I think may end up happening, and what I hope will happen, is that stats won't effect things like number of skill points or hit points or saves, but will still affect skills. So while a class may have a prefered ability it needs, the rest of the allocation for one's ability score is dependent of the skills one wishes to use. That way you can play a somewhat charismatic mechanic or a fairly strong technomancer without sacrificing playability.If stats only affect skills, there's basically no point in even having them. I'd much prefer every ability score do something important than have none of them do so.
Edit: One way they could go, that I'd be fine with - and also seems consistent with the info we have so far - is to make class-based skill points only like 1-2 per level, but then give bonus skill points for every ability score, but those points have to be used for skills based off that score. So a 14 Str would give you 2 points for Str based skills, and a 16 Wis would give 3 for Wis based skills. This means they would have to come up with some Con based skills, and I'm not sure how penalties would work in this system(i.e. 8 Str).
That idea I like. Because physically talented people tend to learn physical skills easily as mentally talented people learn mental skills.
ie: George St. Pierre could learn to do a back flip easier than say an age equivalent Sam Harris. While Sam would have an easier time with learning how to diagnose a new type of mental illness.
But it won't likely happen since they seem to want a hard cap for points. It would be interesting, but in this scenario everyone has around the same number of skill points.
So what relation do you guys think the new androids have to the golarion ones? I was thinking maybe the future technic league discovered a way to make them and that's why they're different. We know that they were made by a corporation (meaning they're likely from the golarion system) and we know they were only recently given freedom (sounds a lot like something the technic league would do). Thoughts?
Ambrosia Slaad |
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So what relation do you guys think the new androids have to the golarion ones? I was thinking maybe the future technic league discovered a way to make them and that's why they're different. We know that they were made by a corporation (meaning they're likely from the...
I'd hope the androids took charge of their own evolution & development after they won their freedom, and that the current Starfinder androids (and any alternate racial traits) reflect these choices. It'd be neat to see an artificial race take the reins that way.
Chris Lambertz Community & Digital Content Director |
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Removed a series of posts, including some lengthy ones (if you'd like to recover that text, please ping community@paizo.com). The forums are intended to be welcoming to gamers of all stripes and our products reflect inclusion of characters from all sorts of backgrounds. Hosting comments that serve to trivialize the experiences of other gamers or isolate other gamers who are excited to see reflections of themselves (or important people in their lives) in our products adversely impacts the goals we have for this space. Since folks agreed to drop the line of conversation on the last page, I suggest we leave it dropped or address specific concerns in another thread.
Archmage Variel |
Archmage Variel wrote:So what relation do you guys think the new androids have to the golarion ones? I was thinking maybe the future technic league discovered a way to make them and that's why they're different. We know that they were made by a corporation (meaning they're likely from the...I'd hope the androids took charge of their own evolution & development after they won their freedom, and that the current Starfinder androids (and any alternate racial traits) reflect these choices.
Like being able to appear and be built more robotic? Or maybe they take notes from some of the species they come across. A kasatha android would be cool.
Ambrosia Slaad |
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:Like being able to appear and be built more robotic? Or maybe they take notes from some of the species they come across. A kasatha android would be cool.Archmage Variel wrote:So what relation do you guys think the new androids have to the golarion ones? I was thinking maybe the future technic league discovered a way to make them and that's why they're different. We know that they were made by a corporation (meaning they're likely from the...I'd hope the androids took charge of their own evolution & development after they won their freedom, and that the current Starfinder androids (and any alternate racial traits) reflect these choices.
I'd kinda like to see some weird/flavorful options that always have a combat benefit. Let them explore and figure out who they want to be. The combat-oriented individuals (the PCs) don't have to take those traits, but it could allow more flavorful NPCs and maybe a thematically-richer android society as a whole.
I think photosynthetic skin and radiotrophic skin would be neat. If I could steal ideas be inspired by another RPG, I think most of the options for pod morphs in Eclipse Phase would be good fits too.
Edit: Hmmm, should probably start jotting ideas down and writing them up now in time for Gen Con '17.
Edit 2: If some/all androids are resistant/immune to vacuum hazards, some short range wireless communication (like the lashuntas, but limited to androids and transceiver computers/robots) would be handy when there's no air to speak. Non-androids could transceive too if they get translator microts nanites from an injection, assistant drone, or another android.
Ambrosia Slaad |
I wonder if they will do anything kind of Xenogears-ish, like Emeralda, the Nano-colony girl who shifts her body into different weapons...
If Starfinder can lend itself to something Xenogears-ish or even Xenosaga-ish that would be fulfilling a childhood dream.
Not familiar with Xenogears, but I've got an alchemist archetype that sounds similar.
Wraithguard |
I missed that first iconic and other stuff. *looks back over it*
Man, this stuff looks awesome. Reading over the Envoy though makes me realize I will probably be playing one of them first. Support classes seem to be something everyone else around me avoids.
The Iconic Envoy looks awesome, they just don't understand what they are missing. =P
Archmage Variel |
I missed that first iconic and other stuff. *looks back over it*
Man, this stuff looks awesome. Reading over the Envoy though makes me realize I will probably be playing one of them first. Support classes seem to be something everyone else around me avoids.
The Iconic Envoy looks awesome, they just don't understand what they are missing. =P
A lot of people don't really like support roles very much because the effect isn't as visible. I like playing control focused casters because you can really see the effect it has on gameplay. You know when you summon raining boulders or mind control someone that you've just done some damage, even if the damage isn't literal it still has a direct mechanical effect on the enemy. A lot of times support classes are just applying long term buffs, which has an effect on the other players who then effect the enemy, or they're waiting out the fight by using whatever (comparatively) weak attack they have. Even healers at least impact the targets health, even if it's in a positive light, the impact is seen right away. I just feel less useful playing support. I don't see other players playing it as less useful, but I myself feel less useful in that position. What do you like so much about playing support if I may ask?
Wraithguard |
Oh yeah. I understand that mindset completely.
I've just had a long history of playing Tanks Healers and Support characters in numerous games from video games to tabletop games. With that time I've also had a long time to think and discuss with fellow gamers about why they like the roles they like.
I just like to try and make a joke out of my affinity for the least enjoyed (from my experience mind you) roles in a group.
Archmage Variel |
Oh yeah. I understand that mindset completely.
I've just had a long history of playing Tanks Healers and Support characters in numerous games from video games to tabletop games. With that time I've also had a long time to think and discuss with fellow gamers about why they like the roles they like.
I just like to try and make a joke out of my affinity for the least enjoyed (from my experience mind you) roles in a group.
I feel like I would like it more if the abilities were more varied and had to be cast more often. So you could do a group attack bonus for like a round but then you had lesser buff you could use like cantrips or arrows every turn without limit (not like the 8 or so per day abilities). I don't want to run out of buffs but I don't want the fix to that to be make buffs last for the whole adventure or even most of the fight.
Angry Ghost |
Angry Ghost wrote:Could make an interesting technomancer racial archetype. Sorta like the nanite bloodline.girl who shifts her body into different weapons...
Excellent because in the Playstation game Xenogears Emeralda was a living Nanite Colony.
What was done to create the "nano colony" in the game you had?
Hrmm will have to take a look at the technomancer.
Archmage Variel |
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Archmage Variel wrote:Angry Ghost wrote:Could make an interesting technomancer racial archetype. Sorta like the nanite bloodline.girl who shifts her body into different weapons...
Excellent because in the Playstation game Xenogears Emeralda was a living Nanite Colony.
What was done to create the "nano colony" in the game you had?
Hrmm will have to take a look at the technomancer.
Nanite Colony is a sorcerer bloodline from the People of the River pathfinder player companion. It basically means you gained your powers by somehow getting nanites inside your body and as you level the nanites slowly replace your organic body until you simply become a humanoid nanite colony/swarm.
Angry Ghost |
Angry Ghost wrote:Nanite Colony is a sorcerer bloodline from the People of the River pathfinder player companion. It basically means you gained your powers by somehow getting nanites inside your body and as you level the nanites slowly replace your organic body until you simply become a humanoid nanite colony/swarm.Archmage Variel wrote:Angry Ghost wrote:Could make an interesting technomancer racial archetype. Sorta like the nanite bloodline.girl who shifts her body into different weapons...
Excellent because in the Playstation game Xenogears Emeralda was a living Nanite Colony.
What was done to create the "nano colony" in the game you had?
Hrmm will have to take a look at the technomancer.
Sweet! people of the River it is!
thanks much!
Wraithguard |
I guess the reason I like it is that I can focus on the overall situation of the conflict and can try to add a little push at the right spots to ensure victory.
It is definitely not as easily noticed as dealing 50 damage from a single attack but sometimes a buff I used would completely negate the enemies tactics (immune to mind control stuff) or significantly speed up the barbarians massacre fest that our caster would otherwise be helpless against (haste). Other times I could screw up the enemies action economy (staggered condition) or erecting walls between groups to limit ranged enemies or trying to engulf us with superior numbers.
I guess it simply comes down to my love of controlling the tempo of the fight.
Those sort of tactical options really appeal to me. I should mention my most recent experiences are with Spheres of Power magic system where these sorts of things are more easily done repeatedly.
Archmage Variel |
I guess the reason I like it is that I can focus on the overall situation of the conflict and can try to add a little push at the right spots to ensure victory.
It is definitely not as easily noticed as dealing 50 damage from a single attack but sometimes a buff I used would completely negate the enemies tactics (immune to mind control stuff) or significantly speed up the barbarians massacre fest that our caster would otherwise be helpless against (haste). Other times I could screw up the enemies action economy (staggered condition) or erecting walls between groups to limit ranged enemies or trying to engulf us with superior numbers.
I guess it simply comes down to my love of controlling the tempo of the fight.
Those sort of tactical options really appeal to me. I should mention my most recent experiences are with Spheres of Power magic system where these sorts of things are more easily done repeatedly.
Makes sense. What is spheres of magic anyways? I've heard of it a lot but have no idea what it's all about.
Wraithguard |
It is sold here or check out this site.
I don't wish to derail the thread to talk about it too much, but there is a decent amount of threads about Spheres of Power as well as many wonderful reviews on the product page.
EDIT: Second link doesn't seem to be working. Let me fiddle with it. FIXED! I think.
Luthorne |
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So no one's commented on the fact that Brethedans can now combine to form Brethedan colonies with a singular consciousness. Wonder what the reason for forming colonies would actually be. Think they can break off and return any time they like or are they stuck as a large mass?
I don't have my copy of Distant Worlds in my hands, but I think that Brethedans could already merge to benefit from communal decisions or to become more powerful and then separate afterwards, but I may be misremembering...
Lemartes |
Archmage Variel wrote:So what relation do you guys think the new androids have to the golarion ones? I was thinking maybe the future technic league discovered a way to make them and that's why they're different. We know that they were made by a corporation (meaning they're likely from the...I'd hope the androids took charge of their own evolution & development after they won their freedom, and that the current Starfinder androids (and any alternate racial traits) reflect these choices. It'd be neat to see an artificial race take the reins that way.
I had the same thought and it would open the doors for androids to have more variation than any other race.
Ambrosia Slaad |
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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:I had the same thought and it would open the doors for androids to have more variation than any other race.Archmage Variel wrote:So what relation do you guys think the new androids have to the golarion ones? I was thinking maybe the future technic league discovered a way to make them and that's why they're different. We know that they were made by a corporation (meaning they're likely from the...I'd hope the androids took charge of their own evolution & development after they won their freedom, and that the current Starfinder androids (and any alternate racial traits) reflect these choices. It'd be neat to see an artificial race take the reins that way.
It'd be interesting to see how the other races react to the quickly-evolving androids. I still think humans will be the ultimate generalists and fast-adapters, but humans and androids together could put significant social pressure on the other races, who may worry they (and their children) will face growing pressures to adapt not just physically, but socially and even spiritually.
Also, up above, I mis-typed. I meant:
I'd kinda like to see some weird/flavorful options that don't always have a combat benefit. Let them explore and figure out who they want to be. The combat-oriented individuals (the PCs) don't have to take those traits, but it could allow more flavorful NPCs and maybe a thematically-richer android society as a whole.
Funny how one word changes the meaning so much.
I blame Cosmo, or at least Titivillus, for not catching the omission sooner.
Archmage Variel |
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Lemartes wrote:Ambrosia Slaad wrote:I had the same thought and it would open the doors for androids to have more variation than any other race.Archmage Variel wrote:So what relation do you guys think the new androids have to the golarion ones? I was thinking maybe the future technic league discovered a way to make them and that's why they're different. We know that they were made by a corporation (meaning they're likely from the...I'd hope the androids took charge of their own evolution & development after they won their freedom, and that the current Starfinder androids (and any alternate racial traits) reflect these choices. It'd be neat to see an artificial race take the reins that way.It'd be interesting to see how the other races react to the quickly-evolving androids. I still think humans will be the ultimate generalists and fast-adapters, but humans and androids together could put significant social pressure on the other races, who may worry they (and their children) will face growing pressures to adapt not just physically, but socially and even spiritually.
Also, up above, I mis-typed. I meant:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:I'd kinda like to see some weird/flavorful options that don't always have a combat benefit. Let them explore and figure out who they want to be. The combat-oriented individuals (the PCs) don't have to take those traits, but it could allow more flavorful NPCs and maybe a thematically-richer android society as a whole.Funny how one word changes the meaning so much.
I blame Cosmo, or at least Titivillus, for not catching the omission sooner.
Well one of the major things humans in the pathfinder universe have going fo them is their ability to, *cough*, procreate. Their status as a prolific species in the universe as well as being able to reproduce with pretty much every other humanoid species makes them fairly adaptable evolutionarily speaking. Plus if humans have formed a singular society their population may end up growing exponentially due to a lack of infighting.
Androids likely don't have this same ability because even if they end up having access to the factories that produced their kind, they may lack the money/materials necessary to produce new members of the species. Basically, as adaptable as a single android is, that adaptation tends to disappear as soon as they take a laser to the head.
Sundakan |
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Similar to what they did in PF where they never say he, and always say she.
This one I always find weird when I see it pop up. I guess the people that say this have never read the Wizard, or Fighter, or Magus, etc. classes.
(The gender pronoun usage of the class is dependent on the Iconic character they made for it.)
Anywho, this stuff seems neat. Can you just pop or deflate the hot air balloon people?
As for the androids, I'm unclear what use a robot has for the concept of gender or sex in the first place.
Lemartes |
Statboy wrote:Similar to what they did in PF where they never say he, and always say she.This one I always find weird when I see it pop up. I guess the people that say this have never read the Wizard, or Fighter, or Magus, etc. classes.
(The gender pronoun usage of the class is dependent on the Iconic character they made for it.)
Anywho, this stuff seems neat. Can you just pop or deflate the hot air balloon people?
As for the androids, I'm unclear what use a robot has for the concept of gender or sex in the first place.
Maybe androids can procreate the mammal way? ;)
Ambrosia Slaad |
Maybe androids can procreate the mammal way? ;)
I figured that it'd be easier to assimilate volunteers and convert them with specialized nanite colonies. I came up with a cyberphage hazard (still not happy with how it came out) for a Wayfinder issue a ways back, but it wouldn't be difficult to rebuild it (or come up with something similar) into a series of feats that allows limited android reproduction with willing assimilatees.
Lemartes |
Lemartes wrote:Maybe androids can procreate the mammal way? ;)I figured that it'd be easier to assimilate volunteers and convert them with specialized nanite colonies. I came up with a cyberphage hazard (still not happy with how it came out) for a Wayfinder issue a ways back, but it wouldn't be difficult to rebuild it (or come up with something similar) into a series of feats that allows limited android reproduction with willing assimilatees.
I had a similar thought on the feats for reproduction if not with a different approach.
There could be feats that allow for non-humanoid bodies and other alterations.
Protoman |
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Will there be a Construct race for Starfinder? Being able to play a droid (whether it was bipedal or more utilitarian like an astromech) in Star Wars is always a highlight. Androids are cool and all but I like the appeal of construct bonuses (immunities) and penalties (really hard to heal) which the androids lack.