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Just thought that I'd report that tonight this new incentive program saved a character from death :-).
And the Pathfinder Society pawn set has some absolutely lovely pieces to it. I'm glad I finally got around to getting it and that the timing of the purchase happened to be so fortuitous.
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So if I have a table and 3 players have a $10 receipt do they then get the Cheaper Healing, Recover from Wounds, and Bonus Wealth?
If I have 2 players both with a $5 receipt does that trigger the normal reward?
If I have a table and 5 players have a $10 receipt does the table get the enhanced benefit of one thing? Does this interact strange with the first question?
I would like some thoughts on how these scenarios work
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Would there be room to extend these benefits to charitable conventions? For example, if the whole table just spent $50 on tickets for the charity raffle, could they enjoy the extended benefits?
As Tonya mentioned above, this is not meant for conventions, but for retail store support.
My main question though, is what if you have a retail convention? I'd imagine it would apply, but some clarification would be good.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Re: pay-to-win
There is absolutely nothing in this that gives a substantial power boost to the PCs, and every scenario is easily winable with out this.
It isn't Pay-to-win. It is more like Pay-to-have-a-safety-net if the dice really hate you.
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This seems like a good idea to me.
Store Owners around the world have been complaining about PFS not being a store friendly model, except for wanting play-space in stores.
Hope the incentive will catch!
I´m pretty sure this initiative will be evaluated in due time. None of the things seem like pay to win to me. All are more tied to remove conditions. Should the party do badly, TPKs are still in scope...
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This seems like a good idea to me.
Store Owners around the world have been complaining about PFS not being a store friendly model, except for wanting play-space in stores.
Hope the incentive will catch!I´m pretty sure this initiative will be evaluated in due time. None of the things seem like pay to win to me. All are more tied to remove conditions. Should the party do badly, TPKs are still in scope...
Definitely +1000! on this!
Granted, many of us make sure to buy at least something at the FLGS that is hosting us, not everyone does. RPGs don't make as much money for the stores as CCGs do, this is a matter of fact. To me, it is a no brainer... you want the store to stay around? Buy stuff from them. Even if you are a PDF junkie, you can still buy flip mats, map packs, dice, minis, sodas, and the like.
Heck, I think this initiative is really cool because it forwards the idea of one of the three tenets... "Cooperate". You cooperate with the store by buying things so that they can keep the lights on, and you cooperate with your table by perhaps getting a bonus you all can share!
Oh, and you are reporting your purchases, so that is another of the tenets. And you explored the store, so there's number three!!!
This is totally in line for PFS!
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I think that a store incentive plan is a good idea. The Harder to Kill boon seems to be overpowered IMO. I like the thought that PC can be killed if they dance around the front lines with low hit points instead of strategically withdrawing. If the bonus was divided in half say 2/5 it would serve the same purpose without unbalancing the game.
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I think that a store incentive plan is a good idea. The Harder to Kill boon seems to be overpowered IMO. I like the thought that PC can be killed if they dance around the front lines with low hit points instead of strategically withdrawing. If the bonus was divided in half say 2/5 it would serve the same purpose without unbalancing the game.
I like harder to kill mostly because it helps lower level parties and is almost irrelevant once you get to higher level play. For a level one character it may mean the player is out of fight, not out of the scenario and building a new character for the next one.
But for a party that has access to breath of life it makes almost no difference to what happens.
It's almost never going to make the difference between winning or losing a scenario but it gives a nice fringe benefit for supporting the stores that host us which is right where it should be in my opinion.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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I think that a store incentive plan is a good idea. The Harder to Kill boon seems to be overpowered IMO. I like the thought that PC can be killed if they dance around the front lines with low hit points instead of strategically withdrawing. If the bonus was divided in half say 2/5 it would serve the same purpose without unbalancing the game.
Speaking as a player whose high hit point character who could survive to -19 Hp ate a x4 crit and died by 4 hit points, I say it probably wouldn't.
For context, I was a level 8 playing low tier in a tier 5-9, and had more hit points than most of the other PCs there, and almost as high an AC. And the GM's dice rolled 3 20's in a row on the first round of combat.
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I think that this change will save a lot of PC lives thus making the game considerably less lethal. Most characters that die of hit point damage (in my experience) are only dead by a few hit points. Allowing for five or ten additional hit points per character will make it a lot harder for a character to die at any level. Opinions are going to vary if this is a good or bad thing.
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I think that a store incentive plan is a good idea. The Harder to Kill boon seems to be overpowered IMO. I like the thought that PC can be killed if they dance around the front lines with low hit points instead of strategically withdrawing. If the bonus was divided in half say 2/5 it would serve the same purpose without unbalancing the game.
Speaking as a player whose high hit point character who could survive to -19 Hp ate a x4 crit and died by 4 hit points, I say it probably wouldn't.
For context, I was a level 8 playing low tier in a tier 5-9, and had more hit points than most of the other PCs there, and almost as high an AC. And the GM's dice rolled 3 20's in a row on the first round of combat.
I just have to say: "OUCH!"
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Organized Play Coordinator
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I'm sorry, but I feel its highly discriminatory towards impoverished players. "Sorry,but to play legit you have to buy the books, plus pay for a playing space, plus bus fare if you aren't privileged enough to afford a car, now you have to shell out an additional 10-40 a month to "power up and win".
I had an Orange shirt volunteer at Paizo con ridicule and shame me in front of a mustered group of players for not being able to afford an internet capable smart phone. This takes me right back to that very hurtful moment. The hobby only wants PFS players who can "pay to win" it seems.
I expect ridicule for my statement of course, because it always seems to be acceptable to shame and now exclude poor people from the richer kids's reindeer games.
I'm sorry about the PaizoCon episode. I've talked to the volunteers and ways to approach the issue that won't cause hurt feelings.
We want this to be an inclusive game. The new softcover CRB is one attempt at bringing the price point down so that more people can enjoy the game. Unfortunately, we have to balance the desire for everyone to play with the fact we are a publishing company that needs to sell books to remain in business. Couple that with the FLGS need to sell product to keep their doors open.
Thus the cooperative nature of the benefit. It doesn't matter who/m provides the receipt, everyone is going to receive the benefit. We rejected ideas that had a minimum per player or that only benefited the purchaser, as we didn't want this to be a pay to play benefit. The benefits are also such that they help, but are not necessary, to complete scenarios.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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I think that a store incentive plan is a good idea. The Harder to Kill boon seems to be overpowered IMO. I like the thought that PC can be killed if they dance around the front lines with low hit points instead of strategically withdrawing. If the bonus was divided in half say 2/5 it would serve the same purpose without unbalancing the game.
Speaking as a player whose high hit point character who could survive to -19 Hp ate a x4 crit and died by 4 hit points, I say it probably wouldn't.
For context, I was a level 8 playing low tier in a tier 5-9, and had more hit points than most of the other PCs there, and almost as high an AC. And the GM's dice rolled 3 20's in a row on the first round of combat.
Overall if you don't have an absurdly lucky DM the ability is really useful but not common enough to be overpowerful. It's come up twice on a level 8 Alchemist. Also, for reference its half a discovery.
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So if I have a table and 3 players have a $10 receipt do they then get the Cheaper Healing, Recover from Wounds, and Bonus Wealth?
If I have 2 players both with a $5 receipt does that trigger the normal reward?
This is not clear to me either. I was under the impression that a single player could benefit from Cheaper Healing, Recover from Wounds or Bonus Wealth—not all three. It was pointed out to me that it is intended that three $10 receipts gets you all three benefits. Can we get clarification this?
As written, it sounds like only receipts of $10, or greater, count. The spirit of the program seems that folks can pool any receipts to reach $50. If seven players had receipts of $7.15 it meets the $50 amount. I assume that it is intended that these folks benefit from the Retail Incentive Program.
Venture-Lieutenant, Oregon—Portland
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I love that this is encouraging support of the retail outlets. I'd like clarification on how the total is counted. Is this per receipt or per $10? E.g., if someone spends $20 on one receipt, is that functionally equivalent to making two separate purchases and having two receipts of $10 each?
Let's put aside potential table disruption—people routinely take a couple breaks at our venue, so I see this as something likely to happen without causing any trouble. I can see someone making multiple smaller purchases to receive multiple benefits for the entire table, since there doesn't seem to be a limit to the number of receipts a person could redeem in a night. But I'm hoping that we can grant benefits per $10, since it's probably better for the stores to encourage broader spending for anything regardless of price.
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As with most things, adjust accordingly. Err on the side of support.
I know if my players buy $48.38 of merch I'll probably take a joke jab that they should "buy their GM a soda," but let it go. Its too small of a benefit to worry about the details. If one player buys a $40 board game and the other five buy $2 in snacks/drinks, that counts.
It's not rocket surgery.
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how. the. heck. are people rules lawyering something this simple?These questions are potentially going to come up in our community. I'd like to be prepared with thoughtful answers.
Here's an answer for 90% of them.
"Close enough for state work. Close enough for state work is close enough for a game..."
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Hmmm, is tax included? A table of four each buying a $2.49 item in one state might qualify for the $10 level, but in a neighboring state it wouldn't.
The total of the receipt is what matters, according to the way it's worded. If you spent $10, it qualifies, whether you spent $10 on a book or $9.50 on a book and $0.50 to fix roads in your state.
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how. the. heck. are people rules lawyering something this simple?These questions are potentially going to come up in our community. I'd like to be prepared with thoughtful answers.
I believe the answer to all these questions is "As the person in charge, we trust you to be able to answer those questions yourself in the manner that best supports your area, as you know it better than any of the campaign staff".
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I think that this change will save a lot of PC lives thus making the game considerably less lethal. Most characters that die of hit point damage (in my experience) are only dead by a few hit points. Allowing for five or ten additional hit points per character will make it a lot harder for a character to die at any level. Opinions are going to vary if this is a good or bad thing.
I might be much more vocal when the over powered party is steam rolling the scenario but really I've much more often found myself scrambling to find a way not to kill PCs without disrupting the natural course of the game. More character deaths is fairly easy to achieve, I don't think it adds much to the game because unless the death sporting there's not much entertainment to it from a GM perspective and PFS rarely decides to be sporting when it decides to be deadly.
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I like the hard to kill boon even more from the GM side of the screen than the player's. Knowing it'll take an extra 10 or even 5 damage to kill an unlucky pc raises the threshhold on entering the realm of having to weigh the potential appropriateness of softballing him.
If a player has his PC take stupid risks b/c of the expanded pool of negative HPs before death.... well the way I see it the players can (and will) police themselves. With 5 or 10 extra rounds of bleeding out before death, players have that much extra time to let a fool bleed before worrying about compromising their own action economy to bail out the fool. Acting a fool because you're harder to kill is a problem that organically solves itself ;)
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I believe the answer to all these questions is "As the person in charge, we trust you to be able to answer those questions yourself in the manner that best supports your area, as you know it better than any of the campaign staff".how. the. heck. are people rules lawyering something this simple?These questions are potentially going to come up in our community. I'd like to be prepared with thoughtful answers.
These are pretty clear and simple to answer questions that I feel should be clarified. It's not some random string corner case but a clarification on their intentions.
2 people have a $5 receipt, is this triggering a $10 reward?
1 person has 5 $2 receipts, is this triggering a $10 reward?
if three people have $10 receipts what happens? do they get three boons? one of each or can they pick three of the same?
if we have 3 people with $20 receipts do they get three $10 rewards and the $50 reward or what?
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At any time during an event, players may redeem receipts from their purchases worth $10 or more to gain a single-use benefit that applies to all of the PCs at the table. If the total combined receipts provided by one or more players are $50 or more, all players receive an enhanced benefit. No matter how many receipts the players have, the table can never use the same benefit more than once during a game session; they can, however, gain both benefits during a session.
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Each player may also choose to use one of the following during the game:
The only unclear point I see here is the use of 'table' instead of 'player' in the part about not gaining the same benefit more than once.
So the answers are:
1) All contributions count, so yes. (So long as the receipts are dated the same day as the game.)
2) All contributions count, so yes. (So long as the receipts are dated the same day as the game.)
3) It's over 10 but under 50. Everyone gets to pick one option for their character to use and everyone gets Hard to Kill.
4) It's over 50, everyone gets Hard to Kill and one other option with the enhanced bonus.
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha
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At any time during an event, players may redeem receipts from their purchases worth $10 or more to gain a single-use benefit that applies to all of the PCs at the table. If the total combined receipts provided by one or more players are $50 or more, all players receive an enhanced benefit. No matter how many receipts the players have, the table can never use the same benefit more than once during a game session; they can, however, gain both benefits during a session.
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Each player may also choose to use one of the following during the game:The only unclear point I see here is the use of 'table' instead of 'player' in the part about not gaining the same benefit more than once.
So the answers are:
1) All contributions count, so yes. (So long as the receipts are dated the same day as the game.)
2) All contributions count, so yes. (So long as the receipts are dated the same day as the game.)
3) It's over 10 but under 50. Everyone gets to pick one option for their character to use and everyone gets Hard to Kill.
4) It's over 50, everyone gets Hard to Kill and one other option with the enhanced bonus.
For number 4). You can benefit from one regular bonus and one enhanced bonus during a session, but you cannot double up.
So, only one Bonus Wealth, Cheaper Healing, or Recover From Wounds per session. If you choose an enhanced Recover From Wounds after a nasty fight, you can later choose a regular Cheaper Healing or regular Bonus Wealth.
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At any time during an event, players may redeem receipts from their purchases worth $10 or more to gain a single-use benefit that applies to all of the PCs at the table. If the total combined receipts provided by one or more players are $50 or more, all players receive an enhanced benefit. No matter how many receipts the players have, the table can never use the same benefit more than once during a game session; they can, however, gain both benefits during a session.
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Each player may also choose to use one of the following during the game:
The only unclear point I see here is the use of 'table' instead of 'player' in the part about not gaining the same benefit more than once.
I originally had the same question about the use of table, instead of player. However, after reading it again, my interpretation is that the table can pool together receipts twice per game, if they have spent enough. Once for a standard $10+ benefit and once for a $50+ enhanced benefit. When it calls for gaining both benefits, I read that as one standard and one enhanced. I don't know what else both would be describing.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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how. the. heck. are people rules lawyering something this simple?These questions are potentially going to come up in our community. I'd like to be prepared with thoughtful answers.Here's an answer for 90% of them.
"Close enough for state work. Close enough for state work is close enough for a game..."
The saying is "government work", not "sate work".
